The Rumour Thread

[Tonhel]

Just now, JerekKruger said:

I think it's one of those situations where the TOW creators have snuck them in without officially allowing them. You can't take Savage Orcs, but you can take Orcs who wear no armor and get Warpaint and Frenzy. If you happen to use Bonesplitterz models to represent those Orcs... well that's between you and Gork and Mork I guess.

It's the same as the base size for the Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount: there are two options, one if which makes it much easier to base the new plastic AoS kit. Obviously that's not a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount fur TOW, it's a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount fur AoS, but I guess we can't stop you using it as the former 😄

It's actually kinda great, because that Chaos Lord looks amazing, but it's kinda underwhelming in AoS. Now I can use him as (the Chaos) God(s) intended.

100% I posted it enough times, but how a Chaos Lord is handled in AoS rulewise is a joke.

[JerekKruger]

Just now, Tonhel said:

We have no idea. It also depends what will be in the Arcane Journal for O&G. I also hope that with the initial succes/hype of TOW that they will re-evalute their long term plans with TOW.

If you are keen to see the legacy factions get full support down the line, I would encourage you to politely tell GW that you want this via AoS and/or TOW feedback email addresses. Don't be a ****** about it, as that just gives GW a reason to ignore it, just make it clear that you would prefer it if all factions were eventually fully supported, that you'd buy arcane journals for the legacy factions if they are eventually released, and that you'd probably buy more minis for those factions if you thought you could take them to GW tournaments (don't worry if you never intend to go to a GW tournament).

I honestly think GW can be made to change their mind over time if enough people make it clear that doing so will increase their sales. I wouldn't expect a change any time soon, but perhaps we'll get a TOW 2.0 release where GW can proudly announce they will now be supporting all the old armies.

[JerekKruger]

3 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

100% I posted it enough times, but how a Chaos Lord is handled in AoS rulewise is a joke.

I think it's one aspect of AoS I really don't like: I can't invest myself in my characters, because by and large they just die too easily. I want my Chaos Lord to be this mighty Warlord who's built a following in the Chaos Wastes before invading the Empire of whatever, but when he hits like damp lettuce and stress to a stiff breeze I can't keep that image.

It doesn't even mean they are bad in AoS (though I don't think they are taken much), it's just they don't feel like mighty leaders to me, let alone compare to WHFB Chaos Lords.

[alyra]

1 hour ago, Luperci said:

She's just regular human sized on a scenic base with wings so surely she won't be that much right 

well im in agree with u, but..... idk eidolon is a human fliying in a sea cloak, and it cost 105€... so despite that model should be around the 35-40€ mark GW do weird things some times.

8 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

I think it's one aspect of AoS I really don't like: I can't invest myself in my characters, because by and large they just die too easily. I want my Chaos Lord to be this mighty Warlord who's built a following in the Chaos Wastes before invading the Empire of whatever, but when he hits like damp lettuce and stress to a stiff breeze I can't keep that image.

It doesn't even mean they are bad in AoS (though I don't think they are taken much), it's just they don't feel like mighty leaders to me, let alone compare to WHFB Chaos Lords.

well, thats an aos problem in general not only  for that hero. every foot hero is totally useless statwise, they ususally cost the same than a minimun size elite infantry unit, and cant be reinforced, but only does half that unit dmg. so they wont ever kill any unit facing, and will waste 1 activation on there.

on my mails i ususally send to GW Balance team, i susually add my fix to this. it would be a universal rule allowing small heros with <8 wounds to inmediatly activate a cloose unit to figth after they figth, the same as some heros has rigth now. so despite they will keep being bad dmg per point, at least we could use them, instead having my big saurus made only for war standing behind my line only watching the figth doing NOTHING, only using his 1 trick upgraded all out atack.....

Edited January 24 by alyra

[cyrus]

31 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

We have no idea. It also depends what will be in the Arcane Journal for O&G. I also hope that with the initial succes/hype of TOW that they will re-evalute their long term plans with TOW.

Arcane journal contains :

1) Nomadic waagh : wolves riders, boar riders,wolf chariot, boar chariot , snotling wagon (as 6th edition themed list)

2)Troll horde: troll hag , all kind of trolls

 

I am sure they want to keep separate AoS/ToW ranges as much as possible also to evaluate sales.

Edited January 24 by cyrus

[JerekKruger]

8 minutes ago, alyra said:

well, thats an aos problem in general not only  for that hero. every foot hero is totally useless statwise, they ususally cost the same than a minimun size elite infantry unit, and cant be reinforced, but only does half that unit dmg. so they wont ever kill any unit facing, and will waste 1 activation on there.

Agreed, although it's more noticeable on things like Chaos and Vampire Lords, who were combat monsters in WHFB, than for GSG heroes who, if they have a useful support ability, kinda fit being incredibly weak.

[JerekKruger]

13 minutes ago, cyrus said:

I am sure they want to keep separate AoS/ToW ranges as much as possible also to evaluate sales.

Surely evaluating sales is less important than increasing them though, and if (as sounds likely) a decent chunk of people do buy old Dark Elf minis for TOW (or whatever), those sales evaluations aren't really accurate. Are Darkling Covens actually suddenly more popular? Should GW invest into refreshing the range? Or is it all TOW players who want to play Dark Elves?

[Luperci]

20 minutes ago, alyra said:

well im in agree with u, but..... idk eidolon is a human fliying in a sea cloak, and it cost 105€... so despite that model should be around the 35-40€ mark GW do weird things some times.

well, thats an aos problem in general not only  for that hero. every foot hero is totally useless statwise, they ususally cost the same than a minimun size elite infantry unit, and cant be reinforced, but only does half that unit dmg. so they wont ever kill any unit facing, and will waste 1 activation on there.

on my mails i ususally send to GW Balance team, i susually add my fix to this. it would be a universal rule allowing small heros with <8 wounds to inmediatly activate a cloose unit to figth after they figth, the same as some heros has rigth now. so despite they will keep being bad dmg per point, at least we could use them, instead having my big saurus made only for war standing behind my line only watching the figth doing NOTHING, only using his 1 trick upgraded all out atack.....

I'd rather they just let heroes be combat monsters if it suits them, a chaos lord should be tearing through lesser infantry. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 hours ago, Tonhel said:

We have no idea. It also depends what will be in the Arcane Journal for O&G. I also hope that with the initial succes/hype of TOW that they will re-evalute their long term plans with TOW.

The launch of TOW was great, but the game still has to prove that it can sustain community interest. At the moment everyone loves it, but I wonder if the same will be the case in 6 months once people are familiar enough with the new rule set to have balance (or other rules design) complaints and the first new hobbyists start dropping the game again after they realize they actually don't enjoy painting. Personally, I don't think TOW will get equivalent balance updates to AoS Battlescrolls. Given the expectations of gamers around balance adjustments nowadays, I think that will be a deal breaker to some people.

I already see people online complaining about how Wood Elves are impossible to beat and not fun to play against. And the game has not even been out for a week.

Edited January 24 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Luperci]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The launch of TOW was great, but the game still has to prove that it can sustain community interest. At the moment everyone loves it, but I wonder if the same will be the case in 6 months once people are familiar enough with the new rule set to have balance (or other rules design) complaints and the first new hobbyists start dropping the game again after they realize they actually don't enjoy painting. Personally, I don't think TOW will get equivalent balance updates to AoS Battlescrolls. Given the expectations of gamers around balance adjustments nowadays, I think that will be a deal breaker to some people.

I already see people online complaining about how Woodelfs are impossible to beat and not fun to play against. And the game has not even been out for a week.

Yeah I've seen a few complaints about wood elf archer spam being insanely strong and also any hero that can take a dragon mount becomes stupid hard to beat(which wood elves can take)

[Ejecutor]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The launch of TOW was great, but the game still has to prove that it can sustain community interest. At the moment everyone loves it, but I wonder if the same will be the case in 6 months once people are familiar enough with the new rule set to have balance (or other rules design) complaints and the first new hobbyists start dropping the game again after they realize they actually don't enjoy painting. Personally, I don't think TOW will get equivalent balance updates to AoS Battlescrolls. Given the expectations of gamers around balance adjustments nowadays, I think that will be a deal breaker to some people.

I already see people online complaining about how Woodelfs are impossible to beat and not fun to play against. And the game has not even been out for a week.

Imo is not about 6 months, but maybe the real deal starts in a year? Once all the core boxes and MTOs happened at least once.

I think untiles that point some users would be waiting for X or Y mini. Once everyone had the chance to get what they want it is when the real test would start.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Imo is not about 6 months, but maybe the real deal starts in a year? Once all the core boxes and MTOs happened at least once.

I think untiles that point some users would be waiting for X or Y mini. Once everyone had the chance to get what they want it is when the real test would start.

I would absolutely predict that the TOW honeymoon period will be over a lot sooner than a year from now, when the meta solidifes a bit and some of the first dominant strategies are discovered.

^{In addition to people realizing they don't actually like doing combat resolution math and wheeling.}

[Tonhel]

2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The launch of TOW was great, but the game still has to prove that it can sustain community interest. At the moment everyone loves it, but I wonder if the same will be the case in 6 months once people are familiar enough with the new rule set to have balance (or other rules design) complaints and the first new hobbyists start dropping the game again after they realize they actually don't enjoy painting. Personally, I don't think TOW will get equivalent balance updates to AoS Battlescrolls. Given the expectations of gamers around balance adjustments nowadays, I think that will be a deal breaker to some people.

I already see people online complaining about how Woodelfs are impossible to beat and not fun to play against. And the game has not even been out for a week.

Well, I have seen a lot of posts saying people are loving it. So either statement doesn't mean much. In the meta I play. A very small group of friends who will build list because of immersive reason. This has zero impact on us. But you are correct that we will have to wait the next couple of months to see how the hype/succes goes. But the start for TOW couldn't have been better.

I prefer armylists that are slightly unbalanced if it means that there is a lof of immersion and options. Tournaments can fix the balance issues if there are big problems like the WE you are mentioning if it is indeed the case.

If there are lists that get abused, it will be very interesting to see how tournaments will handle it and/if GW will do something about it.

But for me immersion/options are much more important. I've lost total interest in my AoS StD army since I started playing around with the WoC armylist. I really hope AoS 4th edition will remedy this.

[Marcvs]

12 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I already see people online complaining about how Woodelfs are impossible to beat and not fun to play against. And the game has not even been out for a week.

tbh I would take first week discussions about balance of a completely new edition/game with 16 completely new battletomes all dropping at the same time with a pinch of salt

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

23 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

tbh I would take first week discussions about balance of a completely new edition/game with 16 completely new battletomes all dropping at the same time with a pinch of salt

I agree. I absolutely think the meta will need time to mature before any substantial judgements about game balance can be made. I know "the meta will adjust" is kind of the "the market will self-regulate" of competitive games, but it is definitely true in this case.

My post is more about pointing out a few pitfalls that TWO will still have to navigate in the near future. If you are at all familiar with new game/edition launches, you have to be aware that enthusiasm is generally higher at launch than a few months in. Especially for games without content updates.

To be clear, I hope TOW does well and builds its own enthusiastic and lively community.

Edited January 24 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[lele]

- My bet on Dawnbringer VI at the end of February: Slaves Spider King vs Slaanesh Champion vs Nurlge

- Model from Novel: Godeater's Son

- Warcry: Ossiarch vs Tzeentch

- Skaven: ??, we wont have skaven untill 4.0 

Edited January 24 by lele

[Gitzdee]

35 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

To be clear, I hope TOW does well and builds its own enthusiastic and lively community.

This is how i feel. Another massive game i dont have time for at the moment. Ill be honest and say i would probably have played ToW if i had the choice when AoS started. But after all this time i am so deep into AoS i just dont want to drop that for another game (again). Ill maybe try a game once or twice with my old army. 

Edit: And seems like my old whfb that i kept on squares isnt actually really represented. Talking about mostly Bonesplitterz and Spiderfang here. I do own some Gitmob that is supported but i dont plan to buy any actual old models again for a premium price.

Edited January 24 by Gitzdee

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, lele said:

- My bet on Dawnbringer VI at the end of February: Slaves Spider King vs Slaanesh Champion

- Model from Novel: Godeater's Son

- Warcry: Ossiarch vs Tzeentch

- Skaven: ??, we wont have skaven untill 4.0 

If Dawnbringers VI is released at the end of Feb, when do you think we will get IV and V?

Edited January 24 by Ejecutor

[lele]

Just now, Ejecutor said:

If Dawnbringers VI is the end of Feb, when do you think we would get IV and V?

Im saying about Warhammer Preview, and updates: may have some Nurlge models

[lele]

Just now, Ejecutor said:

If Dawnbringers VI is the end of Feb, when do you think we would get IV and V?

Dawnbriner V and VI will have Simultaneous release?

[Ejecutor]

3 minutes ago, lele said:

Im saying about Warhammer Preview, and updates: may have some Nurlge models

Oh, ok. I thought you were talking about the release. Yes, previweing it at the end of Feb, or early March seems feasible.

[lele]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

If Dawnbringers VI is the end of Feb, when do you think we would get IV and V?

Or will we get IV and V at the same time, because we aldready have Summerking, now only Sekhar The Fang of Nulahmia model in book IV, and some more models in book V

Edited January 24 by lele

[Ejecutor]

4 minutes ago, lele said:

Or will we get IV and V at the same time, because we aldready have Summerking, now only Sekhar The Fang of Nulahmia model in book V, and some more models in book VI

Ushoran and Sekhar The Fang of Nulahmia are the the ones from Book IV. For book V we have Morai Heg and Callis & Toll. The ones from the preview.

[Garrac]

I'm thinking about the biggest problem GW is having rn.

Tbf to them, what has happened is that the technology for making miniatures has improved a lot and, most importantly, very quick. Yes, GW has some the best equipments and uncredited designers in the world... but there's a problem with that.

That you're gonna do the most modern miniatures, very new, and everyone likes them... but it will make everything feel older and dated. And im not only refering my "beloved" ninja monkeys: we're talking about miniatures like the drukhari that were updated not so long ago and already feel weird when compared them to the toppest new models. but you can't update it all at the same time, and less when your company has a thing (space marines) that sell so well compared to the rest.

So, technology is improving at such a fast pace that we may start having armies of 2018 that will feel dated compared to the newest stormcasts of 2030.

Alltho, this is a "problem" that it's very hard to solve. But yeah, I think one of Gw's biggest problems rn is that they're their own competence to some extense.

Their solution, using Warcry and Kill team to slow-release stuff, is actually very good, tho.

(I'm just happy with an army having a unique and uniformal aesthetic, like eldars still having to use warp spiders from 1994 but them not feeling like belonging to another race)

Edited January 24 by Garrac

[Hollow]

A personal hot take. I hate "Meta", balance, Math-hammer and those who are obsessed with comparing theoretical matchups of specific units in isolation. I can't stand the prevalance of online whinging and moaning that comes with people exlaiming that things are broken and need nerfed or boosted after rules have been avalible for a matter of days. Worse more is the fact that those who scream loudest are then just parroted and their takes are taken as the prevailing conventional wisdom. "Woodelf archer spam is broken" when it is something I bet my bottom dollor on hardly anyone having actually played and having practical real-world experience of. (Not having a go at anyone specific, was just an example) The rush to have a hot take, breakdown or to look through rules for a couple of hours and proclaim the the sky is falling and that certian things are over/underpowered.

Bit of a rant, and unfortunatley it isn't going anywhere. I just really dislike it. Bluergh. 

 

Edited January 24 by Hollow