Skreech Verminking Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 13 minutes ago, Garrac said: Would be a very stupid move. Alltho, granted, they already killed the council of 13 to not be plotwise relevant ever again, so, who knows at this point. Considering the lack of lore in total for the skaven. I’m not that suprised the council of 13 hasn’t been mentioned too much. i mean the few times skaven where mentioned in aos, was mostly just to fix a problem gw wasn’t certain how they could come out of without destroying the world of aos in the lore or to just have stated that skaben got mentioned once (like for example the kragnos campaign book) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Public Universal Duardin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Still-young said: I always read the Spanish wiki as ‘Sigmar Erotica’, and people do keep saying they want more AoS books… Personally I also don’t want to see DoK rolled in with the Malerion faction. I want the Malerion shadow elves to be their own weird thing. And honestly I’ll be really disappointed if they’re basically the shadow elves from Daughters of Khaine but as a faction, they’ve had two goes at them now and both just leave me really cold. Although I wouldn't go that far, I'm genuinely saddened that we never got 'Warhammer Romance' as a Black Library sub-genre. Imagine the trials and tribulations of forbidden love between a duardin and an aelf... As for the rest, I have to agree. AoS is supposed to be wild, give us something else than a retread of Dark Elves (even if wouldn't mind seeing those old Dark Elves actually get support in TOW, but I digress). 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Glutos said: But there's a lot of armies that deserve a bit more flesh,, it's impossible for GW to work that fast though my hopes for skaven are more skyre stuff, I think the chaotic rat scientist are the most unique and fun of the skaven roster, add some abominations created from Frankenstein like experiments and I think we'd have a nice start Yup, Skryre has the most potential. We have only one other hightech army, Kharadron Overlords, and with Skryre GW could follow a different path, as you described more Frankenstein. Stormfiends are the best example, just expand them into basic infrantry and some monster level models. 34 minutes ago, SilentSentinel said: As someone who's been waiting for Malerions faction/army to be released since AoS first launched I admit I would be somewhat disappointed if they just get souped in or share a book with DoK. Mostly because I think I'm concerned that they would end up in a similar position to Kruleboyz where they don't quite feel like a full army because they lack a few extra units/options. Granted there's a few armies that have their own solo tome that have that similar lacking feeling so It may happen regardless of whether they get their own individual tome or not. With that being said I do understand the merits of combining them. Same here. Waiting for TRUE Dark Elves Naggaroth style, with spiky armor since lunch. One day. One day... 33 minutes ago, Garrac said: Thats simply not gonna happen. Globadiers, Rat ogres or grey seers are just one of the many reasons why people LOVE skavens for them to get an oversimplification. Its their moto, some of the most iconic units in warhammer. Would be like taking Basilisks away from the Imperial Guard, or erasing Phoenix lords from the eldar roster. Would be a very stupid move. Alltho, granted, they already killed the council of 13 to not be plotwise relevant ever again, so, who knows at this point. All the previous "legacy" armies keep their units somewhere in the background, like Orruk Warclans or Gloomspite Gitz. Spider riders, night goblins and stabbas are iconic and haven't been canceled but the core is now highly thematic - Squigs, Mushrooms and Troggoths. And in my opinion it helped them a lot as product. Now they have an identity. Previousl goblins were just orks caricature - smaller, more funny, more silly. Now they are perfectly distinct. They really have nothing in common with Ironjawz. That makes them more attractive. And to be honest that's what happened with Cities of Sigmar. GW focused the release around Humans. Not leftovers of elves and dwarfs that are still in the book. If united Skaven were to work, GW would really need to release like 12 new boxes of models, 3 for each masterclan. That way it would be possible to run thematic Clan armies without the need to buy and paint the same box of units multiple times. Edited January 17 by Aeryenn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Lore question. Why Nurgle Skaven and not Khorne or any of the others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glutos Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Looking at the kruelboyz, they had about 7 different kind of units in dominion as seen here followed by a seperate release of 5 new models and an expansion upon the 2 regular troops as seen here that would be the 12 boxes you'd like @Aeryenn but seeing that a lot of those boxes are heroes or huge monsters, I'd doubt they'd be able to flesh out all the clans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, Gitzdee said: Lore question. Why Nurgle Skaven and not Khorne or any of the others? I think it is less lore-related and more about how WHFB copied the life. Rats carry diseases. So push that one step further. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 11 minutes ago, Gitzdee said: Lore question. Why Nurgle Skaven and not Khorne or any of the others? Because the skaven don’t follow any of the fours lesser chaos gods not even nurgle. the goals clan pestilence attempt to reach are quit different of that of nurgle. 23 minutes ago, Aeryenn said: Yup, Skryre has the most potential. We have only one other hightech army, Kharadron Overlords, and with Skryre GW could follow a different path, as you described more Frankenstein. Stormfiends are the best example, just expand them into basic infrantry and some monster level models. Same here. Waiting for TRUE Dark Elves Naggaroth style, with spiky armor since lunch. One day. One day... All the previous "legacy" armies keep their units somewhere in the background, like Orruk Warclans or Gloomspite Gitz. Spider riders, night goblins and stabbas are iconic and haven't been canceled but the core is now highly thematic - Squigs, Mushrooms and Troggoths. And in my opinion it helped them a lot as product. Now they have an identity. Previousl goblins were just orks caricature - smaller, more funny, more silly. Now they are perfectly distinct. They really have nothing in common with Ironjawz. That makes them more attractive. And to be honest that's what happened with Cities of Sigmar. GW focused the release around Humans. Not leftovers of elves and dwarfs that are still in the book. If united Skaven were to work, GW would really need to release like 12 new boxes of models, 3 for each masterclan. That way it would be possible to run thematic Clan armies without the need to buy and paint the same box of units multiple times. I agree skaven in total are in desperate need for an update / addition for each clan. I’d love to see more support between the clans instead of them being their own thing. we’ve laready had moulder making pack-deals with skryre to craft the stormfiends, why shouldn’t we have that back for verminus and moulder or verminus and skryre. weapon teams and poisoned wind globadiers where actually made in the thousands to be sold to the highest paying skaven. Personally when it comes down to the clans that have the lowest potential as they are pretty much already a done clan would be the master clan, which isn’t quit a clan to state at the first time but more of a place grey seer get trained and can call their home. in the end they could probably use some mounted heroes as the other clans as mounts are something we really haven’t seen with skaven also stormvermins, and clanrats should have an all clan keyword. clan skryre , moulder are known to field many of their own of these lowly warriors to battle, not just those the hired. the only clan that gets mentioned that they don’t officially have clanrats or stormvermins is clan eshin, and even they have their own follower clans 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Aeryenn said: Yup, Skryre has the most potential. We have only one other hightech army, Kharadron Overlords, and with Skryre GW could follow a different path, as you described more Frankenstein. Stormfiends are the best example, just expand them into basic infrantry and some monster level models. I definitely think moulder could also work with this niche, give us more stuff like the hell pit abomination and thanqol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aeryenn said: All the previous "legacy" armies keep their units somewhere in the background, like Orruk Warclans or Gloomspite Gitz. Spider riders, night goblins and stabbas are iconic and haven't been canceled but the core is now highly thematic - Squigs, Mushrooms and Troggoths. And in my opinion it helped them a lot as product. Now they have an identity. Previousl goblins were just orks caricature - smaller, more funny, more silly. Now they are perfectly distinct. They really have nothing in common with Ironjawz. That makes them more attractive. And to be honest that's what happened with Cities of Sigmar. GW focused the release around Humans. Not leftovers of elves and dwarfs that are still in the book. If united Skaven were to work, GW would really need to release like 12 new boxes of models, 3 for each masterclan. That way it would be possible to run thematic Clan armies without the need to buy and paint the same box of units multiple times. But... skavens do work? People already love the diferent clans, and are willing to commit on 100 hours campaigns with each one on Total Warhammer 3. Why fix what doesnt need to be fixed? Making skavens generic rats would put them at the same level of other generic-rat races on fantasy settings, what people love about the skavens is the big flavour that the diferent clans bring. Skavens already have an identity, and a bigger one that most of the Fantasy and AoS rosters as they are right now, even with the minis older than me. Again, they're more culturally famous than like 80-90% of 40 factions, even including some space marine chapters, and that's not something that can be easily be said nowadays. And a grand part of that flavour is what the clans bring to the table. They just need all of that to not be neglected in favour of another army of elves. Also, lol, nowadays GW can hardly keep their stock for 2 damn hours on just a book to now just pop out of nothing 5 new armybooks. Edited January 17 by Garrac 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Garrac said: But... skavens do work? People already love the diferent clans, and are willing to commit on 100 hours campaigns with each one on Total Warhammer 3. Why fix what doesnt need to be fixed? Making skavens generic rats would put them at the same level of other generic-rat races on fantasy settings, what people love about the skavens is the big flavour that the diferent clans bring. Skavens already have an identity, and a bigger one that most of the Fantasy and AoS rosters as they are right now. Again, they're more culturally famous than like 80-90% of 40 factions, even including some space marine chapters, and that's not something that can be easily be said nowadays. And a grand part of that flavour is what the clans bring to the table. They just need all of that to not be neglected in favour of another army of elves. Also, lol, nowadays GW can hardly keep their stock for 2 damn hours on just a book to now just pop out of nothing 5 new armybooks. while people do love all the clans, GW can only release so many units at one go. I expect like @Skreech Verminking said more units like the stormvermin that can slot into any clan, with a few specialist units unique to each in the book. Especially so in the starter/launch box Edited January 17 by Luperci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, Garrac said: But... skavens do work? People already love the diferent clans, and are willing to commit on 100 hours campaigns with each one on Total Warhammer 3. Why fix what doesnt need to be fixed? Making skavens generic rats would put them at the same level of other generic-rat races on fantasy settings, what people love about the skavens is the big flavour that the diferent clans bring. Skavens already have an identity, and a bigger one that most of the Fantasy and AoS rosters as they are right now. Again, they're more culturally famous than like 80-90% of 40 factions, even including some space marine chapters, and that's not something that can be easily be said nowadays. And a grand part of that flavour is what the clans bring to the table. They just need all of that to not be neglected in favour of another army of elves. Also, lol, nowadays GW can hardly keep their stock for 2 damn hours on just a book to now just pop out of nothing 5 new armybooks. I think you are not being objective here. I hardly doubt that Skavens are more popular than any Space Marine chapter. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I think you are not being objective here. I hardly doubt that Skavens are more popular than any Space Marine chapter. Raven Guard Quote while people do love all the clans, GW can only release so many units at one go. I expect like @Skreech Verminking more units like the stormvermin that can slot into any clan, with a few specialist units unique to each in the book. Especially so in the starter/launch box That was what they already were on Fantasy, all the clans had stormvermins and clanrats of their own. the four big clans were just those too powerful to conceive things that gave their units as mercenaries for other clans. I still think they kinda wrote themselves into a corner with the whole clan verminous idea. Edited January 17 by Garrac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) doublepost, sorry Edited January 17 by Garrac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Garrac said: But... skavens do work? People already love the diferent clans, and are willing to commit on 100 hours campaigns with each one on Total Warhammer 3. Why fix what doesnt need to be fixed? Making skavens generic rats would put them at the same level of other generic-rat races on fantasy settings, what people love about the skavens is the big flavour that the diferent clans bring. Skavens already have an identity, and a bigger one that most of the Fantasy and AoS rosters as they are right now, even with the minis older than me. Again, they're more culturally famous than like 80-90% of 40 factions, even including some space marine chapters, and that's not something that can be easily be said nowadays. And a grand part of that flavour is what the clans bring to the table. They just need all of that to not be neglected in favour of another army of elves. Also, lol, nowadays GW can hardly keep their stock for 2 damn hours on just a book to now just pop out of nothing 5 new armybooks. That could have been said about every other WHFB faction. We had Chaos United, now we have 4 very thematic and well developed chaos gods armies and 5th universal (StD). We had tolkien-like dwarfs now we have original and popular Kharadron Overlords and Fyreslayers. Four well developed Death armies instead of two. Ironjawz, Kruleboyz and Gloomspite Gitz (which can again be split into 3) instead of Greenskinz. Four Elven factions (yup, I will always include Sylvaneth here) instead of only two and probably at least one is on the way (Malerion). In my opinion all of these moves proved to be well depicted and better than their WHFB versions. You are free to disagree. "They just need all of that to not be neglected in favour of another Stormcast army." Fixed that for you 😉 Edited January 17 by Aeryenn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 40 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I think you are not being objective here. I hardly doubt that Skavens are more popular than any Space Marine chapter. Just you wait till space rats are a thing😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Aeryenn said: In my opinion all of these moves proved to be well depicted and better than their WHFB versions. Well truth be told seraphon, slaves and gloomspite gitz (as well as ardboyz) could as well be made for old world. Most of their units fit the description of old world units perfectly. edit: of course there are units and factions that probably never will fit into old world, like the fish-things, the fantasy space marine-things, the flying beard-things, but those are like the exception. Edited January 17 by Skreech Verminking 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 33 minutes ago, Aeryenn said: That could have been said about every other WHFB faction. We had Chaos United, now we have 4 very thematic and well developed chaos gods armies and 5th universal (StD). We had tolkien-like dwarfs now we have original and popular Kharadron Overlords and Fyreslayers. Four well developed Death armies instead of two. Ironjawz, Kruleboyz and Gloomspite Gitz (which can again be split into 3) instead of Greenskinz. Four Elven factions (yup, I will always include Sylvaneth here) instead of only two and probably at least one is on the way (Malerion). In my opinion all of these moves proved to be well depicted and better than their WHFB versions. You are free to disagree. "They just need all of that to not be neglected in favour of another Stormcast army." Fixed that for you 😉 Well as a StD player and MoN and BoK collector I have the opposite feeling. The WoC armlist in the Ravening hordes book feels more unique and immersive "armylist" wise than what I can do with my StD army in AoS. And there still has to come and Arcane journal for WoC. It's strange to say but StD in AoS is more bland and limited compared with TOW WoC. I really hope for AoS 4th edition they find a way to add more options game wise for various armies that go further than a command trait, an artefact and sometimes a mount trait. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said: Considering the lack of lore in total for the skaven. I’m not that suprised the council of 13 hasn’t been mentioned too much. i mean the few times skaven where mentioned in aos, was mostly just to fix a problem gw wasn’t certain how they could come out of without destroying the world of aos in the lore or to just have stated that skaben got mentioned once (like for example the kragnos campaign book) Rattus ex machina has a certain ring to it though! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 43 minutes ago, Aeryenn said: That could have been said about every other WHFB faction. We had Chaos United, now we have 4 very thematic and well developed chaos gods armies and 5th universal (StD). We had tolkien-like dwarfs now we have original and popular Kharadron Overlords and Fyreslayers. Four well developed Death armies instead of two. Ironjawz, Kruleboyz and Gloomspite Gitz (which can again be split into 3) instead of Greenskinz. Four Elven factions (yup, I will always include Sylvaneth here) instead of only two and probably at least one is on the way (Malerion). In my opinion all of these moves proved to be well depicted and better than their WHFB versions. You are free to disagree. "They just need all of that to not be neglected in favour of another Stormcast army." Fixed that for you 😉 While I absolutely agree that many aspects of various forces got expanded on in a great way (whether it‘s Chaos or Aelfs) that we would‘ve never gotten in TOW, I‘ll always miss mixed Orruks and Goblin/Gitz forces! 😇 I feel in general that AoS forces should be able to be mixed up without compromising the army in a bad way. With the current rules, you‘re usually shooting your own foot if you decide to use „impure“ lists. That‘s a darn shame in quite a few cases. I‘m not sure how to remedy that but if I was responsible for the rules, I‘d make the basic rules simple like in AoS 2nd ed, would add more customization options to heroes and rely on the warscrolls for units themselves to be effective instead of boosting them via army-wide special rules, so that mixing forces would be more viable. Even at the cost of some thematic flavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 55 minutes ago, Aeryenn said: "They just need all of that to not be neglected in favour of another Stormcast army." Fixed that for you 😉 Hopefully come 5th edition at least we can have a break from stormcast and have cities/lumineth/some type of dwarf faction in the launch box (these aren't my favourite order factions, just the most likely to be featured imo) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luperci Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 5 minutes ago, MitGas said: While I absolutely agree that many aspects of various forces got expanded on in a great way (whether it‘s Chaos or Aelfs) that we would‘ve never gotten in TOW, I‘ll always miss mixed Orruks and Goblin/Gitz forces! 😇 I feel in general that AoS forces should be able to be mixed up without compromising the army in a bad way. With the current rules, you‘re usually shooting your own foot if you decide to use „impure“ lists. That‘s a darn shame in quite a few cases. I‘m not sure how to remedy that but if I was responsible for the rules, I‘d make the basic rules simple like in AoS 2nd ed, would add more customization options to heroes and rely on the warscrolls for units themselves to be effective instead of boosting them via army-wide special rules, so that mixing forces would be more viable. Even at the cost of some thematic flavor. Imo there should be competitive restrictions for 'souping' but in casual and narrative they should encourage it more and have fun cross faction synergies 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Luperci said: Imo there should be competitive restrictions for 'souping' but in casual and narrative they should encourage it more and have fun cross faction synergies This. They should make Grand Alliances more fun or at least playable again. I would love to build a mixed Destruction force led by Gordrakk. Edited January 17 by Gitzdee 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 minutes ago, Luperci said: Imo there should be competitive restrictions for 'souping' but in casual and narrative they should encourage it more and have fun cross faction synergies In the end it is what happens lore-wise. Who would ever imagine that FEC would help CoS? It happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gitzdee said: Lore question. Why Nurgle Skaven and not Khorne or any of the others? Skavens, the council of 13, the great clans, and Pestilens included, were invented in 1986. As you've been told, Pestilens follow the whole "rats spread diseases" thing, whith the Black Plague being mentioned and all. Back at the first days of warhammer only Nurgle and Khorne appeared on the WFRP 1rst edition book, with Malak being the first. I mean, on that same number you had first skavens appearing, fighting on the Malak comic, lol. I dunno when the whole 4 chaos gods began being a thing or if Tzeentch and Slaanesh existed as well, but I think it was all later when 3rd edition started being cooked. Edited January 17 by Garrac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 15 minutes ago, Tonhel said: Well as a StD player and MoN and BoK collector I have the opposite feeling. The WoC armlist in the Ravening hordes book feels more unique and immersive "armylist" wise than what I can do with my StD army in AoS. And there still has to come and Arcane journal for WoC. It's strange to say but StD in AoS is more bland and limited compared with TOW WoC. I really hope for AoS 4th edition they find a way to add more options game wise for various armies that go further than a command trait, an artefact and sometimes a mount trait. To be honest I'm not a fan of Slaves to Darkness to start with. In my opinion they should have stayed with 4 chaos armies, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh and work with them each in different direction. StD was created probably due to large wfb fanbase. Currently I own some minis from each of the 4 Chaos gods and don't see any way how StD would fill any holes in my Chaos collection. Again, this is only my opinion but I would leave StD just in the lore remaining minis as reinforcements for 4 remaining Chaos armies. Cities of Sigmar on the other hand was needed because Stormcast alone don't represent humanity well enough in this universe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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