JackOfBlades Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) This evening i have started brainstorming my own rules for Slaanesh. I would like to rewrite much more in the battletome while trying to keep it simple - command traits, artefacts, subfactions, warscrolls, spell lores, and ill see about the battle traits - both because it was fun, and just to prove that a better battletome can be created. As you will see when you read the Sinistrous Hand entry, i would re-write the battletome to make Bravery a more involved part of what the army does but equipment options for Keepers of Secrets is all ive written so far. I wanted to make each option distinct from the others, but function OK in an all comers list, like the Marks of Chaos for StD. Please let me know what you guys think - are the changes outrageously overpowered? are they externally balanced, but the internal balance off? are they okay, but uninspired? or are the changes actually not too bad perhaps after some polishing (changes to some options, a points hike on summoned keepers, etcetra)? I didnt know how the page function worked and cant seem to delete it, so youll have to click "next page" to see what ive cooked together. Living WhipAccording to the variations of their personalities, Keepers of Secrets experience different compulsions for wielding a living whip. Some in their magnanimence desire to gift the despondent with the joy of pain and its excruciating prolonging. Others merely take their own pleasure at beholding their helpless foe squirming, begging, crawling. Yet more appreciate the pleasing aesthetics that they can carve into the enemy’s flesh when they need not dispose of them so quickly. All such eccentricities, the living whip facilitates through its entangling of weapon and scourging of flesh.Weapon profile Range Attacks To Hit To Wound Rend Damage 6’’ 6 3+ 3+ -1 1 At the beginning of the combat phase, roll a D6. On a 2+, you can target 1 enemy HERO or MONSTER within 6’’ of this model and choose one of its weapon profiles. Until the end of that phase, that weapon suffers -1 to hit and -1 to wound if the target attacks after this model does or -1 attack (to a minimum of 1), -1 to hit and -1 to wound if the target attacks before this model does.Ritual KnifeFlavor Text Not FinishedWeapon profile Range Attacks To Hit To Wound Rend Damage 1’’ 1 2+ 2+ -2 D3 When this model uses Dark Temptations on a target, and it elects to attack that target with its Ritual Knife, it may postpone declaring targets for the rest of its attacks and abilities in that phase until its Ritual Knife attack(s) have been resolved. When a HERO suffers a wound from this weapon, immediately apply one of the following effects. If it has accepted Dark Temptations earlier in that combat phase, roll a D6. On a 6, it is slain. If it has refused Dark Temptations earlier in that combat phase, it suffers D3 mortal wounds.Shining AegisThose Keepers of Secrets who must be the performance rather than merely a part of it may well take to a shining aegis, for this enchanted buckler has dual employments. Even as it deflects the unworthy attempts of the enemy, that they may not sully its bearer’s high countenance, its radiance also attracts the enemy’s champions through folly or bravery. They become the supporting cast to the Keeper of Secret’s solo, fulfilling its wish of the spotlight remaining on itself as it masterfully carves and dismembers their body parts.This model has a 6+ ward against damage caused by HERO models, and a 5+ ward against damage caused by non-HERO models. Once per battle at the start of the hero phase, you may declare that this model is in its solo. If you do so, increase these wards by 1 until the start of the next hero phase and use the top row on the model’s damage chart. For each HERO this model slays, you may declare 1 more solo per battle.Sinistrous HandWith its taloned fingers the Keeper of Secrets reaches out to rip the heart from a dying foe, exalting in victory before consuming the still beating organ. A malign unease fills those with the misfortune of beholding the spectacle, their spirits quailing at the daemon's demonstration which they cannot stand but cannot look away from.Weapon profile Range Attacks To Hit To Wound Rend Damage 1’’ 1 2+ 3+ -1 1 At the end of a combat phase in which this model slew any models, apply the following effects: Heal D3 wounds allocated to this model, and until the end of the coming battleshock phase, enemy units within 6'' of this model suffer -1 Bravery. If any of the slain models was a HERO, heal 2D3 instead of D3 wounds and apply -2 Bravery to enemy units within 6’’ instead of -1. Edited July 24, 2022 by JackOfBlades 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AronQ_ Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) I have a question if I cast on keeper of secrets flying spell on himself, will have circet that canceling retreating and will charge on flying ship of kharadron, can it steal retreat from me or not using fly high ability? Edited July 24, 2022 by AronQ_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackOfBlades Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) Im curious what you people would like to see as rule-concepts for the Viceleader. Since this unit essentially has no unique rules, the possibilities for what it could be are vast - which means i have to go back to the source and ask, is there a vision for this unit in the first place? Or do we have to create one. In general i want to reimagine lesser leaders to reward you more for taking them and getting stuck in with them, thinking particularly of combat subcommanders, so that they and by extension their armies are more narratively satisfying. I want to see Viceleaders, Lords of Pain and the likes in other factions fight alongside their troops against the hordes of the enemy, perform daring moves, and duel other subcommanders, like we would in the narrative. I think there are two avenues to achieve this: 1) Increased access to enticing command traits and artefacts for subcommanders, 2) Incentivising you to get subcommanders into combat in general, particularly against other subcommanders, through additions of certain subcommander heroic actions and warscroll redesigns. Edited July 24, 2022 by JackOfBlades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 1 hour ago, JackOfBlades said: Im curious what you people would like to see as rule-concepts for the Viceleader. Since this unit essentially has no unique rules, the possibilities for what it could be are vast - which means i have to go back to the source and ask, is there a vision for this unit in the first place? Or do we have to create one. In general i want to reimagine lesser leaders to reward you more for taking them and getting stuck in with them, thinking particularly of combat subcommanders, so that they and by extension their armies are more narratively satisfying. I want to see Viceleaders, Lords of Pain and the likes in other factions fight alongside their troops against the hordes of the enemy, perform daring moves, and duel other subcommanders, like we would in the narrative. I think there are two avenues to achieve this: 1) Increased access to enticing command traits and artefacts for subcommanders, 2) Incentivising you to get subcommanders into combat in general, particularly against other subcommanders, through additions of certain subcommander heroic actions and warscroll redesigns. Giving it the 'companion unit fights at the same time' ability would be a good place to start. And a reliable support ability of some kind. I get the impression that being a Wizard is supposed to count for that, but no-bonus casters are unreliable at the best of times and worse off in the current caster heavy meta developing around endless spells. In theory, that could be locus of diversion... but again, unreliable. I feel like either locus or the generic spell that all demon casters get should be more reliable to give the Viceleader a role... if it were also locus on a 3+ like a keeper, it might be a useful disruption piece. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackOfBlades Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, KrispyXIV said: Giving it the 'companion unit fights at the same time' ability would be a good place to start. And a reliable support ability of some kind. I get the impression that being a Wizard is supposed to count for that, but no-bonus casters are unreliable at the best of times and worse off in the current caster heavy meta developing around endless spells. In theory, that could be locus of diversion... but again, unreliable. I feel like either locus or the generic spell that all demon casters get should be more reliable to give the Viceleader a role... if it were also locus on a 3+ like a keeper, it might be a useful disruption piece. Yeah that companion unit ability is the kind of design that hits the spot: 1) Incentivises you to bring subcommanders in particular, and requires them to get stuck in 2) Subcommanders get a lower barrier to entry for which combats they want to enter (because it's harder to kill them with another subcommander and its companion unit that cant all pile into it, than with an independent small frontage hammer) and when you activate them I had also thought to base it more on locus. What about changing locus to a 3+ for everyone, giving heralds the companion unit fights with them ability by default or only against units affected by locus, and changing their warscroll spell to a re-roll on the locus? Also which units should the companion unit be restricted to - just daemonettes? just battleline (which might open an incentive for a Lord of Pain general, aside from enhancements that we could keyword restrict)? something else? Edited July 24, 2022 by JackOfBlades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Current Slaanesh list topping Summer Slaughter (102 players): Allegiance: Slaanesh - Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos) - Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs - Triumphs: Inspired Leaders Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (205)* - Host Option: General The Contorted Epitome (245)* - General - Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation - Artefact: Oil of Exultation - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon Krondspine Bladebringer, Herald on Seeker Chariot (185)* - Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy Battleline 22 x Blissbarb Archers (280)* - Reinforced x 1 22 x Blissbarb Archers (280)* - Reinforced x 1 11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)* Units 5 x Centigors (85)* 10 x Gors (70)* - Gor-Blades & Beastshields Behemoths Krondspine Incarnate of Ghur (400)* Endless Spells & Invocations Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) Purple Sun of Shyish (70) Core Battalions *Battle Regiment Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 2 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 96 Drops: 1 In all honesty, I imagine the Krondspire and Purple Sun are pulling a lot of weight here, but still nice to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Enoby said: In all honesty, I imagine the Krondspire and Purple Sun are pulling a lot of weight here, but still nice to see. I got like 8 DP from one cast of Geminids yesterday. That was pretty nice. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Point Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 On 7/25/2022 at 9:35 AM, Enoby said: Current Slaanesh list topping Summer Slaughter (102 players): Allegiance: Slaanesh - Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos) - Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs - Triumphs: Inspired Leaders Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (205)* - Host Option: General The Contorted Epitome (245)* - General - Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation - Artefact: Oil of Exultation - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon Krondspine Bladebringer, Herald on Seeker Chariot (185)* - Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy Battleline 22 x Blissbarb Archers (280)* - Reinforced x 1 22 x Blissbarb Archers (280)* - Reinforced x 1 11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)* Units 5 x Centigors (85)* 10 x Gors (70)* - Gor-Blades & Beastshields Behemoths Krondspine Incarnate of Ghur (400)* Endless Spells & Invocations Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) Purple Sun of Shyish (70) Core Battalions *Battle Regiment Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 2 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 96 Drops: 1 In all honesty, I imagine the Krondspire and Purple Sun are pulling a lot of weight here, but still nice to see. Why Geminids ? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Red_Point said: Why Geminids ? 🤔 I guess for DP farming. You cast it and run it through your whole army 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Point Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, Archibald said: I guess for DP farming. You cast it and run it through your whole army Ahnnnn so in this list is 7 DP in first Turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 If I were re-doing the viceleader scroll I'd probably just make them a companion hero for daemonette squads (This might also require changing the daemonette scroll into something worthwhile...) But a 12" bubble of +1 to wound, increased rend, or extra attacks for nearby daemonettes would give the viceleader a niche, even if it's not a very meta one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackOfBlades Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Lucentia said: If I were re-doing the viceleader scroll I'd probably just make them a companion hero for daemonette squads (This might also require changing the daemonette scroll into something worthwhile...) But a 12" bubble of +1 to wound, increased rend, or extra attacks for nearby daemonettes would give the viceleader a niche, even if it's not a very meta one. So far ive come up with:Battle Traits Locus of DiversionActivates on a 3+ for all HEDONITE DAEMON HEROES. GREATER DAEMONS no longer receive +1 to their roll.Viceleader Herald Troupe LeaderIn the combat phase when you pick this unit to fight for the first time, you can pick 1 friendly DAEMONETTE unit that has not yet fought in that phase. This unit and that unit can fight one after the other in the order of your choice. If they do so, hit rolls against this unit and that unit suffer -1 when made by a unit affected by this model's Locus of Diversion in that turn.Acquiescence (warscroll spell)Add +1 to the roll for this model's Locus of Diversion. The Troupe Leader ability causes both hit and wound rolls to suffer -1 when attacks are made as described in that ability. These effects last until the end of this turn. Edited July 26, 2022 by JackOfBlades 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupercal Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Any chance the homebrew/wishlist stuff can be spun off into its own thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibel Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Hi Guys, I played 2 games in the last week with this List: Allegiance: Slaanesh- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak- Triumphs: BloodthirstyLeadersGlutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (470)* - Host Option: General- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark DelusionsLord of Pain (140)*- General- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation - Artefact: Oil of Exultation Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (205)*- Host Option: General Battleline (GV)22 x Blissbarb Archers (280)* - Reinforced x 110 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (240)*- Reinforced x 1 10 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (240)**- Reinforced x 110 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (260)**- Reinforced x 1 Units 1 x Chaos Spawn (55)*- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh1 x Chaos Spawn (55)*- Mark of Chaos: SlaaneshEndless Spells & InvocationsGeminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Core Battalions*Battle Regiment**Bounty Hunters Total: 1985 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 121Drops: 3 One Victory (against Soulblight MassZombies) and 1 Lost against MassSnakes DoK (it was a Little Sad, i got the doppelT against me from 1 to 2 and no DT backso.. gg in Turn 3) Tomorrow i try this: Allegiance: Slaanesh- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)- Mortal Realm: Ghur- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak- Triumphs: BloodthirstyLeadersSigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (205)**- Host Option: General The Krondspine: Contorted Epitome (245)** - Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation- Artefact: Oil of Exultation - Lore of Slaanesh: Born of DamnationThe Masque (130)**- Host Option: GeneralBattleline11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)**11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)**11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)**Units10 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (240)*- Reinforced x 110 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (260)*- Reinforced x 11 x Slaves to Darkness Chaos Spawn (55)**- Mark of Chaos: SlaaneshBehemothsKrondspine Incarnate of Ghur (400)**- AlliesEndless Spells & InvocationsGeminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Core Battalions*Bounty Hunters**Battle RegimentTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 400 / 400Wounds: 96Drops: 3 What do u think? Did anyone played with the Krondspine allready?! Do u think there are any Competativ (lets say go 3-2 in a 2day Tournament) Hedonits list ?! (there is a Event i play in the end of Agust and i can play NurgleMassFly (stupid boring ) or Hedonits but i dont wont to be an the last place automaticlly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azdimy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 6 hours ago, ibel said: Hi Guys, I played 2 games in the last week with this List: Allegiance: Slaanesh- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak- Triumphs: BloodthirstyLeadersGlutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (470)* - Host Option: General- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Dark DelusionsLord of Pain (140)*- General- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation - Artefact: Oil of Exultation Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (205)*- Host Option: General Battleline (GV)22 x Blissbarb Archers (280)* - Reinforced x 110 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (240)*- Reinforced x 1 10 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (240)**- Reinforced x 110 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (260)**- Reinforced x 1 Units 1 x Chaos Spawn (55)*- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh1 x Chaos Spawn (55)*- Mark of Chaos: SlaaneshEndless Spells & InvocationsGeminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Core Battalions*Battle Regiment**Bounty Hunters Total: 1985 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 121Drops: 3 One Victory (against Soulblight MassZombies) and 1 Lost against MassSnakes DoK (it was a Little Sad, i got the doppelT against me from 1 to 2 and no DT backso.. gg in Turn 3) Tomorrow i try this: Allegiance: Slaanesh- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)- Mortal Realm: Ghur- Grand Strategy: No Place for the Weak- Triumphs: BloodthirstyLeadersSigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (205)**- Host Option: General The Krondspine: Contorted Epitome (245)** - Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation- Artefact: Oil of Exultation - Lore of Slaanesh: Born of DamnationThe Masque (130)**- Host Option: GeneralBattleline11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)**11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)**11 x Blissbarb Archers (140)**Units10 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (240)*- Reinforced x 110 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (260)*- Reinforced x 11 x Slaves to Darkness Chaos Spawn (55)**- Mark of Chaos: SlaaneshBehemothsKrondspine Incarnate of Ghur (400)**- AlliesEndless Spells & InvocationsGeminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Core Battalions*Bounty Hunters**Battle RegimentTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 400 / 400Wounds: 96Drops: 3 What do u think? Did anyone played with the Krondspine allready?! Do u think there are any Competativ (lets say go 3-2 in a 2day Tournament) Hedonits list ?! (there is a Event i play in the end of Agust and i can play NurgleMassFly (stupid boring ) or Hedonits but i dont wont to be an the last place automaticlly The krondspine is a good choice in most armies and it is very good in hedonites of slaanesh. It provides the army the staying power it lacks to be able to still have an army in the later turns and be able to summon. It is a great piece to get the big enemy threats stuck in and generate depravitiy points until he eventually falls. By that time you should have enough points to generate 30 deamonettes while your opponents will have suffered heavy losses from it. I like this list better than the one with glutos with all the purple sun showing up at events. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibel Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, azdimy said: I like this list better than the one with glutos with all the purple sun showing up at events. Okay, thx for your Asnwer (the only think is the Krod could so easyly be gone from the game but this is a other pice of paper) Q: Can u tell like a Glutos etc. List would like ? (I like Glutos, the Mini and the rules) Is it Glutos,, PSUN, Siggi, Archer + Twins in MASS ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 guys i think krondspine generate depravity, but watching on rules u gain DP at the end of the battleshock and krondspine heal herself during battleshock phase. is there some FAQ? or the fact u rolling the heal her cound as it was wounded so u got DP? u know how it works ? im just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azdimy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, Tizianolol said: guys i think krondspine generate depravity, but watching on rules u gain DP at the end of the battleshock and krondspine heal herself during battleshock phase. is there some FAQ? or the fact u rolling the heal her cound as it was wounded so u got DP? u know how it works ? im just curious It takes wounds and heal or delevel at the end of the turn. As long as it took any wounds you ll get depravity for it 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 I decided to take some time and join a local 1 day event and take Slaanesh. Going to be just working on completing models. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibel Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) On 7/31/2022 at 3:22 AM, Carnith said: Going to be just working on completing models. Very cool. So what will be your list? Pls tell us how it works PS: My game on Friday didnt happen, sadly. But i try the Krod List against a Nighthaunt, Bladereaver Armee at Evening. I will make a report. Thx 4 watching Edited August 1, 2022 by ibel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 18 hours ago, ibel said: Very cool. So what will be your list? Pls tell us how it works PS: My game on Friday didnt happen, sadly. But i try the Krod List against a Nighthaunt, Bladereaver Armee at Evening. I will make a report. Thx 4 watching Right now thoughts are lurid haze. sigvald. Epitome with command trait and artifact shardspeaker 3x11 archers 3x5 myrmadesh 10 twinsouls 5 slickblades Purple sun geminids twins, slicks, and a unit of myrms in bh the rest is one drop I could go for max drops and take warlord and expert conqueror. Archers will die anyways but I’ve had them survive long enough to keep holding and deny battle tactics such as desocrate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AronQ_ Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Hello depraved ones! I have another question. if I will take to my hedonite army- beasts of chaos(coalition). Can I make beastlord or doombull to be warlord in my army with trait and artefact of hedonite? I know that there will be no abilities of hedonite for beastmen, but do beastmen will have their own abilities and ambush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 50 minutes ago, AronQ_ said: Hello depraved ones! I have another question. if I will take to my hedonite army- beasts of chaos(coalition). Can I make beastlord or doombull to be warlord in my army with trait and artefact of hedonite? I know that there will be no abilities of hedonite for beastmen, but do beastmen will have their own abilities and ambush? No, you can't make a Coalition unit your general, but you can give them an artifact. No, Coalition units do not get any allegiance rules from their 'original' faction, they only get the allegiance abilities of the faction they are taken in where applicable. In this example, the Beasts of Chaos units in a Slaanesh army don't benefit from much of the Slaanesh rules as most of them work off the Hedonite keyword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AronQ_ Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Jaskier said: No, you can't make a Coalition unit your general, but you can give them an artifact. No, Coalition units do not get any allegiance rules from their 'original' faction, they only get the allegiance abilities of the faction they are taken in where applicable. In this example, the Beasts of Chaos units in a Slaanesh army don't benefit from much of the Slaanesh rules as most of them work off the Hedonite keyword. Thanks for explanation! This is sad to hear, that there is no synergy between beasts of chaos and hedonites. I really hope, that when there will be new codex of beastmen, they will gain more synergy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Yeah it's unfortunate, sadly almost all Chaos factions have very little synergy with each other despite the Coalition rules as theirs are far more restrictive compared to say Cities of Sigmar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts