AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Magnus The Blue]

45 minutes ago, Drazhoath said:

Hey guys 

Yesterday I had my first and probably last game against a Tzeentch Eternal Conflagation List with 2x10 Horrors, 2x6 Flamers, 6 exalted Flamers and a lot of Heroes.

I tried Archaon the first time and played a Keeper and tried Warriors and fast Seekers.

Turn 3 I skipped the game. I dont want mourn but that wasnt fun. Turn one he shot my fast units and a double turn later my heroes died...

Whats your experience with shooting Tzeentch and how did you manage this?

Heavy shooting lists are never going to be easy and Archaon is only going to make things worse.  Also warriors are basically zero value in a matchup like this, too slow to have any impact.

If your going to tailor a list against that sort of thing I'd got for alpha strike, so Lurid Haze with some Marauders and tonnes of seekers/ in units of 5.  The Masque is also great for these games either charging in where needed or hiding at the back to enable summoning.

[Enoby]

As Magnus has said, big monsters suffer in this heavy shooting meta. In a vacuum, multiple KoS are still pretty good, but they get shot away too often in more competitive games now. MSU that are fast are the best way to counter 

[whispersofblood]

The age of the KoS is over. If we are honest we would stop mitigating how bad the situation is in this thread. Almost all the things that made the KoS good have been either nerfed or removed from the game. And, ranged dmg has increased, casting buffs have increased and units are better, or 1 wound. 

Stop fielding KoS and your results will improve. You'll probably still lose but it will be less one sided.

[Drazhoath]

6 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

The age of the KoS is over. If we are honest we would stop mitigating how bad the situation is in this thread. Almost all the things that made the KoS good have been either nerfed or removed from the game. And, ranged dmg has increased, casting buffs have increased and units are better, or 1 wound. 

Stop fielding KoS and your results will improve. You'll probably still lose but it will be less one sided.

Thats so sad because with a KoS we have a damn pretty model😢

[Enoby]

21 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

Almost all the things that made the KoS good have been either nerfed or removed from the game. And, ranged dmg has increased, casting buffs have increased and units are better, or 1 wound

Just curious, I know what's been nerfed, but what's been removed? 

[Elazar The Glorified]

For one, the outfit that everyone was wearing in autumn/winter 2019,  the Thermal Rider Cloak

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Just curious, I know what's been nerfed, but what's been removed? 

 

13 minutes ago, Elazar The Glorified said:

For one, the outfit that everyone was wearing in autumn/winter 2019,  the Thermal Rider Cloak

That's the biggest one.

[Enoby]

Thanks - totally forgot they were even a thing for a moment there! 

I do wonder what our tournament lists will look like once large scale tournaments can happen. I don't think we'll be taking first place very often, but I would find it interesting to see what does and doesn't work. When using the depraved drove, I've found it lacks too much in defence to hold on after a good few hits against it, and the damage isn't high enough to go full glass cannon. That's not to say it's bad, but the classic 30 bestigors have a few key weaknesses, with the biggest one being how large their bases are. You can usually get 10 into a unit at most (unless the unit is particularly big); 30 attacks at 4(3)/3/-1/1 is nice, but it's not good enough compared to the competition.

I'm thinking Lurid Haze with marauders may have better luck as they can't be shot off the board or charged when they're hidden? I reckon 20 would be easy to get in for 40 attacks at 3/3/-1/1. Even then I'm not totally sure as we lack buffs to give them from that far away. 

[whispersofblood]

12 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Thanks - totally forgot they were even a thing for a moment there! 

I do wonder what our tournament lists will look like once large scale tournaments can happen. I don't think we'll be taking first place very often, but I would find it interesting to see what does and doesn't work. When using the depraved drove, I've found it lacks too much in defence to hold on after a good few hits against it, and the damage isn't high enough to go full glass cannon. That's not to say it's bad, but the classic 30 bestigors have a few key weaknesses, with the biggest one being how large their bases are. You can usually get 10 into a unit at most (unless the unit is particularly big); 30 attacks at 4(3)/3/-1/1 is nice, but it's not good enough compared to the competition.

I'm thinking Lurid Haze with marauders may have better luck as they can't be shot off the board or charged when they're hidden? I reckon 20 would be easy to get in for 40 attacks at 3/3/-1/1. Even then I'm not totally sure as we lack buffs to give them from that far away. 

I put my depraved drove list a bit further up. It basically just floods the board with decent combat attacks and runs up a VP score while delaying the eventual table wipe for as long as possible. 

It only works because I can use Lurid Haze to get marauders up field and take lots of group d with lots of models. I would have to get bridge or lauchon in otherwise.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

Hi everyone!

What's everyone's take on mortal-heavy Slaaneshi armies?  I hear a lot of disparaging for Warriors or Knights in comparison to Marauders, but if Marauders weren't an option how would they fare?

[CeleFAZE]

15 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Hi everyone!

What's everyone's take on mortal-heavy Slaaneshi armies?  I hear a lot of disparaging for Warriors or Knights in comparison to Marauders, but if Marauders weren't an option how would they fare?

Mortal heavy lists without marauders run into the issue of our best mortal battleline unit (hellstriders) having no synergy with S2D faction buffs. So you're basically left with warriors and knights. Warriors will stand up to some punishment in units of at least 15, but even at that size they're not going to dish out any appreciable hurt. Knights on the other hand are okay defensively, but will mill around accomplishing nothing in combat if you don't kill on the charge with lances, or will be outclassed by daemonettes if you go with ensorcelled weapons.

I've been contemplating running paired units of knights and hellstriders, to pin down enemies the knights need an extra turn to reach, and to provide something that actually gets stronger the longer it's in combat to contrast the lance knights ineffectiveness past the first round.

Here's hoping the Lord of Pain gives us something to help make our mortals shine. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by CeleFAZE

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

1 hour ago, CeleFAZE said:

Mortal heavy lists without marauders run into the issue of our best mortal battleline unit (hellstriders) having no synergy with S2D faction buffs. So you're basically left with warriors and knights. Warriors will stand up to some punishment in units of at least 15, but even at that size they're not going to dish out any appreciable hurt. Knights on the other hand are okay defensively, but will mill around accomplishing nothing in combat if you don't kill on the charge with lances, or will be outclassed by daemonettes if you go with ensorcelled weapons.

I've been contemplating running paired units of knights and hellstriders, to pin down enemies the knights need an extra turn to reach, and to provide something that actually gets stronger the longer it's in combat to contrast the lance knights ineffectiveness past the first round.

Here's hoping the Lord of Pain gives us something to help make our mortals shine. 

Thank you!

I'm okay with using Knights and Warriors as sponges while other units do the hammering. I'd actually planned on having Hellstriders zip around alongside the Knights for a little extra punch!

[whispersofblood]

22 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Hi everyone!

What's everyone's take on mortal-heavy Slaaneshi armies?  I hear a lot of disparaging for Warriors or Knights in comparison to Marauders, but if Marauders weren't an option how would they fare?

You have to really ask yourself why you want to play HoS. 

The only attractive units from S2D are, varangar and marauders. Because the mostly operate independently and don't need too much to do their thing. Godseeker marauders essentially auto charge for example.

Warrior dmg is quite low. Knights are an interesting replacement for hellstriders but they aren't battleline so it dominates your other unit choices a bit.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

8 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

You have to really ask yourself why you want to play HoS. 

The only attractive units from S2D are, varangar and marauders. Because the mostly operate independently and don't need too much to do their thing. Godseeker marauders essentially auto charge for example.

Warrior dmg is quite low. Knights are an interesting replacement for hellstriders but they aren't battleline so it dominates your other unit choices a bit.

That's a good question. I suppose it boils down to aesthetic; I want to play Slaanesh but I prefer the Mortals both as models and in theme.

[CeleFAZE]

So, something occurred to me back when warriors and hellstriders were v the same points, and despite a slight difference I find myself coming back to the idea: has anyone considered a large block of hellstriders as a tanky and mobile anvil for a Slaanesh list? They don't generate depravity, but for 330 points you get 30 wounds with a 4+ save that jump up to 5 attacks each after dealing a single casualty in a preceding combat phase.  Running in a lurid haze Invaders army they could potentially have a 3+ save as well, which is nothing to scoff at, and with a 6" pile-in from their battalion they can manage to get a fair number of bodies swinging in a given phase. I still only see use in the claw spears for loadout, but I think this might have some potential.

[Salyx]

3 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

So, something occurred to me back when warriors and hellstriders were v the same points, and despite a slight difference I find myself coming back to the idea: has anyone considered a large block of hellstriders as a tanky and mobile anvil for a Slaanesh list? They don't generate depravity, but for 330 points you get 30 wounds with a 4+ save that jump up to 5 attacks each after dealing a single casualty in a preceding combat phase.  Running in a lurid haze Invaders army they could potentially have a 3+ save as well, which is nothing to scoff at, and with a 6" pile-in from their battalion they can manage to get a fair number of bodies swinging in a given phase. I still only see use in the claw spears for loadout, but I think this might have some potential.

They definately have some Potential, especially in Lurid Haze, where they can deepstrike and reroll charges. However, in such big untis I would rather field the Scourges over the Spears. With a 3" reach, you can Hit with almost All models, especially, if you turn the First 1-2 ranks by 90°, which more than Events out the - 1 Rend. 

[whispersofblood]

6 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

That's a good question. I suppose it boils down to aesthetic; I want to play Slaanesh but I prefer the Mortals both as models and in theme.

I'd recommend playing S2D then, or hopefully we get to some more mortal integration in the future.

[whispersofblood]

6 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

So, something occurred to me back when warriors and hellstriders were v the same points, and despite a slight difference I find myself coming back to the idea: has anyone considered a large block of hellstriders as a tanky and mobile anvil for a Slaanesh list? They don't generate depravity, but for 330 points you get 30 wounds with a 4+ save that jump up to 5 attacks each after dealing a single casualty in a preceding combat phase.  Running in a lurid haze Invaders army they could potentially have a 3+ save as well, which is nothing to scoff at, and with a 6" pile-in from their battalion they can manage to get a fair number of bodies swinging in a given phase. I still only see use in the claw spears for loadout, but I think this might have some potential.

I used a unit of 10 in the early days as a mobile forlorn hope type unit. That I could jam into units or run through gaps onto objectives. I eventually stopped using them, but I can't say it's because of some fault of the unit mostly I just wanted the points for other things. 

15 might be too many though.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

29 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

I'd recommend playing S2D then, or hopefully we get to some more mortal integration in the future.

I think I may wind up doing just that.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Popisdead]

On 10/10/2020 at 6:06 PM, CeleFAZE said:

So, something occurred to me back when warriors and hellstriders were v the same points, and despite a slight difference I find myself coming back to the idea: has anyone considered a large block of hellstriders as a tanky and mobile anvil for a Slaanesh list? 

I have but it was really long ago.  I considered the 3" reach weapon.  

But after reading the warscroll for Seekers and comparing,.. and thinking Seekers are good.  They gain bonus attacks as the game goes on, and with some tricksy healing they could be really effective.  cb42 was the guy who espoused the use of them.

so that's the mobile aspect of the block.  If you wanted a serious threat as a large block Bestigors perform much better.  4+ save 30W, can move really far with a GBS and cogs.  

However I always espouse people try things like this.  people should try new things.  It coudl turn out to be really effective or you stumble upon a new tactic/combo not yet tried and helps.  

 

Also does anyone know the list that took #1 that was Slaanesh from the weekend tourney?  Same tournament as the 16 Cockatrice guy.  

[CeleFAZE]

On 10/13/2020 at 12:52 PM, Popisdead said:

I have but it was really long ago.  I considered the 3" reach weapon.  

But after reading the warscroll for Seekers and comparing,.. and thinking Seekers are good.  They gain bonus attacks as the game goes on, and with some tricksy healing they could be really effective.  cb42 was the guy who espoused the use of them.

so that's the mobile aspect of the block.  If you wanted a serious threat as a large block Bestigors perform much better.  4+ save 30W, can move really far with a GBS and cogs.  

However I always espouse people try things like this.  people should try new things.  It coudl turn out to be really effective or you stumble upon a new tactic/combo not yet tried and helps.  

 

Also does anyone know the list that took #1 that was Slaanesh from the weekend tourney?  Same tournament as the 16 Cockatrice guy.  

I plan on running the hellstriders alongside seekers and/or knights, as I definitely recognize both of those have more punch, though the former is comparatively fragile (though can get my drops lower).

From what I've heard the list was:

KoS x2

Bladebringer on exalted x3

10 Daemonettes x3

[Rabidweasel]

Hi all, 

So in a few months we have a Meeting Engagement tournament coming up and i want to finally use my new HoS army I've been painting up over lockdown.  However trying to fit models into the restrictions for ME is proving a headache, especially as this will be first time using HoS!

So I'm thinking of running:

KoS

Exalted Seeker Chariot

Contorted Epitome

x5 Chaos Warriors

x5 Chaos Warriors

Fane

This brings me to 990 points.  I'm thinking of running Lurid Haze Invaders , but i don't think the ambush rule will work with the random deployment of Meeting Engagement?  I'm also deciding what to add to each part of the army.

I'm thinking the Chariot as the spearhead, KoS and the warriors as main body and Epitome as Rearguard.

Then getting the big things in combat asap to start generating Depravity points to bring in models.  Probably seekers to run off to objectives.

I did toy with dropping the Epitome in favour of an Infernal enrapturess, then taking 2 x 10 deamonettes over the warriors.  But reading here and elsewhere the Epitome seems like an auto take?

Anyone else had a successful Meeting Engagement army since GHB20?

[Midjithero]

On 10/11/2020 at 12:41 AM, whispersofblood said:

I'd recommend playing S2D then, or hopefully we get to some more mortal integration in the future.

Not necessarily true...I’m running Archaon Pleasurebound list in Lurid Haze with good results (3/2/1 so far with another tourney this Sunday). It’s all S2D models, but the Hedonite book offers more for my style of list than the S2D allegiance abilities, namely 40 marauders auto outflanking, double attacking (60% of the time) and getting their exploding attacks generate more without a hero present.

i do feel that my list is very glass cannon and matchup/no-double turn dependent.  The S2D book (Slaanesh-wise) just doesn’t synergize like Hedonites.

[Popisdead]

19 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

I plan on running the hellstriders alongside seekers and/or knights, as I definitely recognize both of those have more punch, though the former is comparatively fragile (though can get my drops lower).

From what I've heard the list was:

KoS x2

Bladebringer on exalted x3

10 Daemonettes x3

I like it.  Daemonettes can chew up chaff pretty well.  They just aren't the power house hitter of pre Battletome.  And the Horde nerf makes me feel running 10-man is an option to consider and try.  

 

If it goes well report back findings

[Golub87]

So a particular Seraphon list has been the bane of our local meta for a while now, running undefeated for well over a month. We play on 1500pts with min 2 battlelines.

It is a variation of: Kroak, Slaan, Astrolith Bearer, 20xTemple Guard, 15xTemple Guard, Purple Sun and Vortex (ES can be varied, but these are his favorites). Surprisingly, he plays as coalesced and his typical strat is to get both casters, astrolith and a unit of guard on one objective and the other unit of guard on the other, transfer all the wounds from casters to the guard and snipe opponents key pieces with spells.

I preped a list of my own to counter it this evening:

Allegiance: Slaanesh - Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)
LEADERS

The Contorted Epitome (210)- General- Command Trait: Feverish Anticipation - Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy

Keeper of Secrets (380)- Sinistrous Hand- Artefact: Oil of Exultation - Spell: Progeny of Damnation

Infernal Enrapturess, Herald of Slaanesh (140)

Chaos Lord (110)- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel

UNITS

40 x Chaos Marauders (320)- Axes & Shields

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)- Hand Weapon & Shield

3 x Fiends (190)

ENDLESS SPELLS Mesmerising Mirror (60)

TOTAL: 1500/2000

WOUNDS: 95

 

The idea is to set up a first round charge with 40 outflanking marauders and chaos lord who will give them double activation that will grind trough the temple guard bubble around the casters, while pushing CE, IE and Fiends will hopefully mess with his casting enough in the first turn or two to prevent him from doing critical damage. Fiends also act as decent reserve in case that marauders get too thin by the fight with the guard to take care of casters on their own.

KoS is a bit of a wildcard, capable of supporting the main attack or going off on his own to hunt the smaller unit of temple guard.

Leftover warriors are there to fulfill the battleline and to hold the backfield objective.

What do you think? Am I missing something?