AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[DoctorPerils]

3 hours ago, MothmanDraws said:

Tbh i think this is a learning thing, if you play again and he never takes dice all has to worry about is mitigating eophoric killers to gut your depravity

"Just say no to drugs"

also this effect is easier  than expected

Lovely! How did you do it? Inks through an airbrush?

[LeonBox]

Some thoughts on Temptation Dice: 

I think they're going to be very, very tricky to get right. Several times in my battle I found myself offering pointless Temptation Dice -- his unit was going to die, so what did he care about an extra d3 MWs? 

I found the most effective use of them was (fittingly enough) offering him a 6 that he really wanted, like an extra hit on his Troggoth Boss' big attack. I actually gave him an extra hit in the combat phase that killed Glutos because I was a few DPs away from a global 5++, and I knew that he'd only give me DP for that if I gave him something juicy. 

I found them very easy to forget about. A couple of battle rounds I had a few left over. I'd therefore advise using them liberally. 

Troggoths were a bit of a hard counter to the D3 MWs because they just regen that away at the end of the turn. Against an army without a 5++ on most units and in-built regen, I can imagine that decision to be a bit trickier.

Also some thoughts on Pretenders: 

Amazing. 3 CPs per turn (and the ability to issue a command 3 times for 1 CP) is unbelievably good. Until my LoP died, I had almost too many CPs. Also, I'll never put the LoP in harm's way again, even if his output is pretty good with Strength of Godhood. 

[Poryague]

With tougher units you may want set up situation to offer 2 Temptations on your turn one in shooting and melee this way its 2d3 on the unit sure it's 4 damage average but in shooting phase and melee phase that can be extra model or models dying. 

I think trogs are just a bad deal in particular because of high save, ward, and regeneration at end of combat. Probably one of the toughest units in game if you can't think of a good way to get pass all that.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Poryague

[LeonBox]

16 minutes ago, Poryague said:

With tougher units you may want set up situation to offer 2 Temptations on your turn one in shooting and melee this way its 2d3 on the unit sure it's 4 damage average but in shooting phase and melee phase that can be extra model or models dying. 

I think trogs are just a bad deal in particular because of high save, ward, and regeneration at end of combat. Probably one of the toughest units in game if you can't think of a good way to get pass all that.

Yeah Trogs were tough when it came to Temptation Dice, but they were juicy targets for the Pretenders spells (the best lore in the book and it’s not even close). Soulslice Shards utterly shut them down. 

[Poryague]

Maybe if Visage and shutting down command were on the same unit could force a battle shock test granted not an easy set up. There bravery 5 goes to 4 by Visage. So killing 1 or 2 models becomes significant for battle shock 

[LeonBox]

5 minutes ago, Poryague said:

Maybe if Visage and shutting down command were on the same unit could force a battle shock test granted not an easy set up. There bravery 5 goes to 4 by Visage. So killing 1 or 2 models becomes significant for battle shock 

You know I totally forgot about Visage’s bravery effect. Very much worth keeping in mind. 

[KrispyXIV]

1 hour ago, LeonBox said:

Some thoughts on Temptation Dice: 

I think they're going to be very, very tricky to get right. Several times in my battle I found myself offering pointless Temptation Dice -- his unit was going to die, so what did he care about an extra d3 MWs? 

So, kindof a QoL issue but something to consider for temptation dice - attacks technically happen in sequence, not all at once.

You and your opponent should be resolving temptation dice well before your opponent has perfect knowledge of whether his unit is going to survive or not (or how well their attack is going, etc.) - after the first failed save (or hit/wound roll) in most cases (or after the second, vs. Blissbarb Seekers for example), when rolls could still go very well or very poorly, leaving the fate of the unit still in question.

I've been discussing this with my immediate playgroup (the 4-6 people normally play), and I think what we're going to do is call things ahead of time - "I'm going to tempt you on your first failed save, are you going to accept or reject?" - and unless they don't want to do that, do it that way.  Otherwise, we'll resolve the 'correct' way - roll each save one at a time in sequence.

But it is very much not to the Hedonites players advantage to offer dice after your opponent has perfect knowledge of the outcome of the results of an entire combat.  

[Poryague]

15 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

So, kindof a QoL issue but something to consider for temptation dice - attacks technically happen in sequence, not all at once.

You and your opponent should be resolving temptation dice well before your opponent has perfect knowledge of whether his unit is going to survive or not (or how well their attack is going, etc.) - after the first failed save (or hit/wound roll) in most cases (or after the second, vs. Blissbarb Seekers for example), when rolls could still go very well or very poorly, leaving the fate of the unit still in question.

I've been discussing this with my immediate playgroup (the 4-6 people normally play), and I think what we're going to do is call things ahead of time - "I'm going to tempt you on your first failed save, are you going to accept or reject?" - and unless they don't want to do that, do it that way.  Otherwise, we'll resolve the 'correct' way - roll each save one at a time in sequence.

But it is very much not to the Hedonites players advantage to offer dice after your opponent has perfect knowledge of the outcome of the results of an entire combat.  

Most people use rule 13.2.1 combined attacks roll it all at once. Which usually isnt an issue. So i guess you can say I plan to tempt that unit can we use rule 13.2 do things in sequence to make them sweat. Then return to rule 13.2.1 when no temptation are planned.

[LeonBox]

29 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

So, kindof a QoL issue but something to consider for temptation dice - attacks technically happen in sequence, not all at once.

You and your opponent should be resolving temptation dice well before your opponent has perfect knowledge of whether his unit is going to survive or not (or how well their attack is going, etc.) - after the first failed save (or hit/wound roll) in most cases (or after the second, vs. Blissbarb Seekers for example), when rolls could still go very well or very poorly, leaving the fate of the unit still in question.

I've been discussing this with my immediate playgroup (the 4-6 people normally play), and I think what we're going to do is call things ahead of time - "I'm going to tempt you on your first failed save, are you going to accept or reject?" - and unless they don't want to do that, do it that way.  Otherwise, we'll resolve the 'correct' way - roll each save one at a time in sequence.

But it is very much not to the Hedonites players advantage to offer dice after your opponent has perfect knowledge of the outcome of the results of an entire combat.  

I can see a lot of opponents wrinkling their nose at this, not least because it slows play down, but also because it's second nature for most people to simply roll all their dice at once. 

One thing I thought was great (though I think this will change as people wise up to Slaanesh's new tricks) was how readily my opponent accepted at first because it didn't seem like that big a deal to give me a measly D6 depravity. As time wore on, however, it became obvious that his blithe decisions earlier were snowballing and making his life harder. I don't think I've seen a more perfect blend of lore and mechanics. 

[Poryague]

4 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

I can see a lot of opponents wrinkling their nose at this, not least because it slows play down, but also because it's second nature for most people to simply roll all their dice at once. 

One thing I thought was great (though I think this will change as people wise up to Slaanesh's new tricks) was how readily my opponent accepted at first because it didn't seem like that big a deal to give me a measly D6 depravity. As time wore on, however, it became obvious that his blithe decisions earlier were snowballing and making his life harder. I don't think I've seen a more perfect blend of lore and mechanics. 

Think how much more frustrating that choice of taking would be as KrispyXIV described. What you could do is let them know your tempting that unit then slow roll until they fail offer the tempt then return to mass rolling after they made their decision.

[Poryague]

Looking at attack sequence

13.2 says " Make attacks 1 at a time, unless you are making combined attacks."  And combined attacks " you can make combined attacks if all the attacks are made by models from the same unit, with same type of weapon, against the same target unit, and where the same rerolls and modifiers apply to the attacks".  13.2.1 sounds like it's not just optional. It may be up to the attacking players discretion on how he rolls.

But that means on your attacks you could do 1 attack at a time to trigger the saves temptation.

[Unit1126PLL]

Yeah, I don't know how to handle temptation dice with fast rolling... That sucks.

[Poryague]

 

21 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

Yeah, I don't know how to handle temptation dice with fast rolling... That sucks.

It gets weirder if you use euphoric killer and are close to the 2nd power up of 6 to hit does mw in addition. You could slow roll it until you get it. Then batch roll once you have it. 

This may be wrong as all wounds happen after all attacks and saves are made.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Poryague

[KrispyXIV]

32 minutes ago, Poryague said:

 

It gets weirder if you use euphoric killer and are close to the 2nd power up of 6 to hit does mw in addition. You could slow roll it until you get it. Then batch roll once you have it. 

This may be wrong as all wounds happen after all attacks and saves are made.

Edit - Oh man, I thought euphoric Killers addressed this, but apparently not. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by KrispyXIV

[Poryague]

4 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Edit - Oh man, I thought euphoric Killers addressed this, but apparently not. 

Euphoric killers gets dp as soon as wound is caused. 13.3.1 wounds seem to be allocated after all attacks from the unit have been made so it shouldn't be an issue. 

[Enoby]

I've had another half a game and, as a quick comment, Blissbarbs with a Lord of Pain are absolutely fantastic. 

I've not been as impressed by Painbringers - not their stats, but I struggle to get them where they need to be. 

The Masque was really strong - with a +1 to hit and wound from Finest Hour and the command ability, she does a respectable amount of damage for her points and nets some good depravity alongside dispatching an important target. 

[Unit1126PLL]

I think generating depravity is very opponent dependent, which is interesting. Slaanesh will have bad matchups and good matchups with dp generation alone 

[Poryague]

Fiends are probably better then slick blades in versitality.Mostly because fiends count as infantry for battalion purposes and slick blades don't. No retreat and no surrender command and icon. They would have 3 stings and 5 claw attacks and are eligible for double activation.They could be in the battalion for hero phase activation. Long as we don't get stuck in 1 drop meta you could do a lot with them.

[LeonBox]

10 hours ago, Enoby said:

I've had another half a game and, as a quick comment, Blissbarbs with a Lord of Pain are absolutely fantastic. 

I've not been as impressed by Painbringers - not their stats, but I struggle to get them where they need to be. 

The Masque was really strong - with a +1 to hit and wound from Finest Hour and the command ability, she does a respectable amount of damage for her points and nets some good depravity alongside dispatching an important target. 

I didn't even realize the LoP's aura affected shooting too. I could have done a lot more damage with that had I known. 

[zombiepiratexxx]

Lord of Pain is very good now and buffs pretty much everything going which makes him amazing. Slaanesh legitimately has some amazing hero options now, even among Daemons as Masque and Epitome show. Even Shalaxi and the Kipper, while expensive, can still be made to work I think, even the standard Viceleader isn't a bad pick anymore. 

We've got so much more variety in this new book it genuinely feels amazing and like there are secrets to be unlocked with the combinations to stuff we can actually put together, I don't see this being a one-dimensional "only pick these units to win" situation. There are some obviously strong picks in the units like Blissbarbs being really good as default Battleline, whipstriders are great for shutting down a unit on an objective, even regular Seekers can find a place and open up options for a whole cavalry army lead by Chariot Heralds in a very thematic Godseekers list. 

[LeonBox]

I've been giving thought to our fairly naff magic, and so next battle I'm going to take the Epitome + Cogs. The Epitome should be able to pretty reliably cast Cogs, and then all our casters will get to re-roll. Spells like Phantasmagoria are just too important to rely on a single roll of the dice. 

[Enoby]

I really do love the new book for its options - not just that it really encourages creativity, but also that it's a fantastic that there isn't a terrible or too good unit in the book. Everything feels like you can experiment with it, and that's brilliant - even the units I've been a bit dissapointed in, it's never been because they're really bad, they're just not quite as creative as the other ones.

It's definitely a book everyone will have to experiment with. I was really impressed with Twinsouls recently - they tanked (and hurt) squigs really well.  

[ibel]

I See Many List. Realy realy cool Batteltome i think. The Think i think i like on every host other thinks the most (Different Host had dirrefent cool stuff like Pretenders Trait, Goodseeker Artfakts, Invaders Spells and so on and on)

a Question: Seekers (Blissbard/Sickblades) are now Batteline?!

So my list is a mix at the beginnen like that:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Pretenders Host
- Grand Strategy: The Day is Ours!
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony (480)*

- Lore of Pain and Pleasure: Phantasmagoria
Lord of Pain (135)*
- General
- Command Trait: Strength of Goodhood
- Artefact: The Crown of Dark Secrets
- Host Option: Strength of Godhood
The Contorted Epitome (190)

- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation
The Masque (140)*

Battleline
5 x Symbaresh Twinsouls (140)*
5 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*
22 x Blissbarb Archers (300)*
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (200)*
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Mesmerising Mirror (60)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
Drops: 2

 

[Thor]

Hello fellow Deviants, does anyone have pictures of our battleline options? do chariots still become battleline after conditions or? 

[KrispyXIV]

9 minutes ago, Thor said:

Hello fellow Deviants, does anyone have pictures of our battleline options? do chariots still become battleline after conditions or? 

Chariots are battleline if you take the similar Bladebringer as a general.  Ie, a bladebringer on seeker chariot makes seeker chariots battleline.