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The New Skaven Battletome, Terrain, Model & eSpells!

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10 hours ago, MrZakalwe said:

he's going to be running pretty much even odds of damaging himself or the target with the overcharge mode against anything with decent defensive stats

That's what I've said before. That's my biggest fear. They might have combined all Skaven factions, but if they didn't address Skaven's biggest problem, which is that their propensity to hurt themselves makes them completely unreliable and therefore not competitive, then nothing will really change. The new model's stats don't fill me with confidence that this was changed in any way. 

Edited by Throt the Unclean

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2 hours ago, Overread said:

We also don't know if GW is going to keep weapon teams around; considering that stormfiends basically have all 4 weapon options within their unit already. GW could be using the terrain to replace the warpgrinder for pushing beyond the deployment zone.

Dude, you're probably right. Weapons teams might go the way of the Skavenslaves. If true, that's a shame. Skaven weapons teams are so iconic! But maybe GW feels they're a remnant of Fantasy and reminds them too much of rank and file units? Stormfiends are definitely more epic and mythic. 

I wonder how the gnawhole terrain piece will effect Eshin units. And I hope warplightning doesn't get nurfed in favor of using the endless spells. 

Also, what do you think will happen to rat swarms, giant rats, and packmasters with the edition of the rat swarm endless spell?

Edited by Throt the Unclean

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if nothing changed and Skaven gets all the extra stuff (relics, allegiances, endless spells), i'll be happy
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56 minutes ago, Throt the Unclean said:

Dude, you're probably right. Weapons teams might go the way of the Skavenslaves. If true, that's a shame. Skaven weapons teams are so iconic! But maybe GW feels they're a remnant of Fantasy and reminds them too much of rank and file units? Stormfiends are definitely more epic and mythic. 

I wonder how the gnawhole terrain piece will effect Eshin units. And I hope warplightning doesn't get nurfed in favor of using the endless spells. 

Also, what do you think will happen to rat swarms, giant rats, and packmasters with the edition of the rat swarm endless spell?

I really don't want them to get rid of the weapon teams. They Are quite unique in Age of Sigmar in that each model has multiple bodies on them. The rattling gun is cool, the mortars and flamer throws are still cool. I mean I don't play Skaven to win, I play to laugh and have a god time, so I really hope weapon teams stay.

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2 hours ago, Throt the Unclean said:

That's what I've said before. That's my biggest fear. They might have combined all Skaven factions, but if they didn't address Skaven's biggest problem, which is that their propensity to hurt themselves makes them completely unreliable and therefore not competitive, then nothing will really change. The new model's stats don't fill me with confidence that this was changed in any way. 

I think having that risk/reward with skryre machinery and some spells is fun and fits with the fluff of skaven. While they have powerful weapons and magic they are also a bit crude, unreliable, and the skaven can be pretty reckless. That being said, I do think the warlock bombardier from the teaser is a little too overboard with multiple "overcharge" rules plus the unreliable single shot missile weapon (reminds me of poisoned wind mortar) makes the crazy rat feel a little too unreliable to be that viable. Not to mention the warp lightning now blows the user up if it's unbound...if your opponent has any wizards you may as well not attempt the overcharge. Too many ways for it to backfire...

4 hours ago, Overread said:

We also don't know if GW is going to keep weapon teams around; considering that stormfiends basically have all 4 weapon options within their unit already. GW could be using the terrain to replace the warpgrinder for pushing beyond the deployment zone. 

I really hope they don't drop the weapon teams. Stormfiends are great but I loved the weapon teams and how easily they could fit into lists and the extra firepower they provide. It does make sense though, the models are very old, half not sold on the store, and outside warpfire throwers and the occasional ratling gun I don't see them often. Stormfiends are similar and more powerful overall.

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9 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:

I think having that risk/reward with skryre machinery and some spells is fun and fits with the fluff of skaven. While they have powerful weapons and magic they are also a bit crude, unreliable, and the skaven can be pretty reckless. 

I totally agree. It's one of the aspects that drew me to Skaven. It makes them fun and unique. I just think those aspects need to be tempered greatly to really make Skaven a competitive army. 

 

10 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:

I do think the warlock bombardier from the teaser is a little too overboard with multiple "overcharge" rules plus the unreliable single shot missile weapon (reminds me of poisoned wind mortar) makes the crazy rat feel a little too unreliable to be that viable. Not to mention the warp lightning now blows the user up if it's unbound...if your opponent has any wizards you may as well not attempt the overcharge. Too many ways for it to backfire...

Exactly. So many of Skaven's models are like that. There are too many ways for units to have their powers backfire. So more often than not I don't take the risk because the chance of hurting myself and risking the game is too great. So I'm left with a below average army. Idk. I'm sure it's a really difficult balance to figure out, but that's their job. I like that the risk versus reward and unpredictable nature of the army, but fluff needs to enhance or accent an army, not cripple it. It just needs to be really dialed back so Skaven can actually compete and be more consistent and reliable. 

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You can also just not overcharge them. Also keep in mind currently skyre abilities let you boost your spell casting and reroll misses

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On 2/3/2019 at 11:26 PM, Throt the Unclean said:

I mean someone needs to get fired for that oversight.

Overreaction, thy name is michu 

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3 minutes ago, Tunamancer said:

Overreaction, thy name is michu 

hy·per·bo·le

Dictionary result for hyperbole

/hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
 
  1. exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
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2 minutes ago, Throt the Unclean said:
hy·per·bo·le

Dictionary result for hyperbole

/hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
 
  1. exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Throt should be banned for this post

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I know i'm one of the few, but i hoped Skaven would have individuals clans book, with a Eshin book, Skyre book, etc... rather have the nighthaunt treatment to mke each clan unique and standing apart than the LON treatment. Unified battletome probably mean no new model, and skaven REALLY needed that. I don't think the clan really mesh well together (a mixed army of pestilens, skryre and eshin models look very strange) now, and i would have love to see GW expand on each of them individually.

Edited by ledha
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1 minute ago, ledha said:

I know i'm one of the few, but i hoped Skaven would have individuals clans book, with a Eshin book, Skyre book, etc... rather have the nighthaunt treatment to mke each clan unique and standing apart than the LON treatment. Unified battletome probably mean no new model, and skaven REALLY needed that

But it does avoids the Ironjawz/Flesheater courts/Pestilens problem where an entire faction has about 3 units to choose from and every army looks cookie cutter. 

 

Pretty much every Ironjawz army looks the same. 

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10 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

But it does avoids the Ironjawz/Flesheater courts/Pestilens problem where an entire faction has about 3 units to choose from and every army looks cookie cutter. 

 

Pretty much every Ironjawz army looks the same. 

You may have not noticed it, but the nighthaunt, who had only 2 units and 3 heroes before, then, by having their own battletome, gained many more heroes and units and became a viable army with a ton of references. I specifically referenced them as an example of what i would have love to see for each clan, why are you talking about the Ironjaws ?

If you can make a army with only spirit hosts and hexwraith as base, you can do the same with any skaven clan

Edited by ledha

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But that's the whole flavour of Skaven. Hordes of clanrats supported by strange Moulder beasts, Skryre weapons, Pestilents plagues and Eshin assassins. That's what makes them unique.

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10 minutes ago, ledha said:

You may have not noticed it, but the nighthaunt, who had only 2 units and 3 heroes before, then, by having their own battletome, gained many more heroes and units and became a viable army with a ton of references. I specifically referenced them as an example of what i would have love to see for each clan, why are you talking about the Ironjaws ?

If you can make a army with only spirit hosts and hexwraith as base, yu can do the same with any skaven clan

They could do that with anything. There's way more mini factions in this game than there are fleshed out ones.  I was talking about  Ironjawz, Flesheater courts, and Pestilens because they are good examples of when a minifaction with a battletome  doesn't really have enough substance to support being it's own army but I could have just as easily mentioned Bonesplitterz or to a lesser degree Fyreslayers (though that's more to do with the aesthetic choices in that faction).

Edited by MrZakalwe
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1 minute ago, michu said:

But that's the whole flavour of Skaven. Hordes of clanrats supported by strange Moulder beasts, Skryre weapons, Pestilents plagues and Eshin assassins. That's what makes them unique.

The whole flavour of chaos was hordes of ultra armored warriors supported by beastmens and fighting with demons from every chaos gods. Then GW separated demons from mortals, then made beastmen alones, then reunited demons and mortals, but separated them by gods, and removed mark from beastmen, before giving them back.

They didn't lost their uniqueness, despite having their organization completely changing every two editions.

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6 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

They could do that with anything. There's way more mini factions in this game than there are fleshed out ones.  I was talking about  Ironjawz, Flesheater courts, and Pestilens because they are good examples of when a minifaction with a faction with a battletome  doesn't really have enough substance to support being it's own army but I could have just as easily mentioned Bonesplitterz or to a lesser degree Fyreslayers (though that's more to do with the aesthetic choices in that faction).

Nighthaunts had enough substance despite being the most minor subfaction you could imagine. No history, no personnality, nothing. Any of the army you mentionned could have been expanded like the nighthaunts, it just take some efforts from GW, and this is what I WOULD HAVE WANTED to see, because the skavens clans deserve that.

Edited by ledha

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They still can have that. But now we can play them in the old way and many skaven players wanted that. 

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Yes but would it have killed them to replace the decades-old Acolytes instead of making like, nine Primaris lieutenants? ☹️

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11 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Yes but would it have killed them to replace the decades-old Acolytes instead of making like, nine Primaris lieutenants? ☹️

Or even just weapon teams instead of Gnawholes.

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The more I think about this, the more it galls me to think about the piles of Stormcast spewed out of Nottingham, while what is quite possibly Warhammer Fantasy's most iconic and memorable IP gets a new book and some spells while its players shell out for ancient miniatures.

I know, I know it's just toys, and all the rest... It just seems like the most wasted opportunity. I hope they end up doing a 'Legions of Nagash/Nighthaunt' combo and Skaven get a whole new expanded subfaction or something (Year of the Rat... pls?), but for now, as much as I'm happy to have a book, and warscroll cards, and dice, and spells, and terrain (cos it ain't nothing!), this is a game about toy soldiers, and what I really wanted was some more toy soldiers. Seeing the community team respond to squeaks for new plastics on Facebook with, 'hey look! Warlock Bombardier!' particularly sticks in the craw.

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@Kirjava13 deep breaths now - everyone (including stormcast players) knows that SC got a LOT of attention. Dont' forget Seraphon didn't get anything new and haven't had anything new for even longer! Plus right now all the skaven are coming under one banner once more - so whilst there's not a swathe of new models you do now have the ability to freely pick and choose from a bigger roster of skaven. 

Chances are by the time most starting or rebooting skaven now are getting their armies finalised there will be a fresh wave of new models. I'm sure GW would love to push out more but they are just limited on production slots. I'm sure they'd love to throw out all the old metals and replace them with new plastics and streamline their production. 

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