Is Deathrattle "obsolete" with NH? (as in new models)

[kenshin620]

This topic isn't about game wise NH overtaking DR, DR still has the ever useful Skeleton spearmen (but they really need to give wights and graveguard some love). But from a new product standpoint does Nighthaunt leave Deathrattle in the dust for new units? Sure NH is more ghost than skeleton, but they still got all those skulls with the added bonus of the dynamics of cloaks, ghostly wisps, and floating.

 

Not sure how Deathrattle could really get anything new other than "skeleton with slightly different armor". Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a new set thats just as detailed and dynamic as the Sepulchral Guard, but GW isn't really interested in updating plastic models now are they?  I'm also not saying "DR should have its own Allegiance". They are and should probably firmly be "minion" territory but it wouldn't hurt to have some more useful DR themed lists.

 

I think the only thing I could think of is a more theme matching Archer and Catapult set to give the legions an actual range option, and finally bring back mounted wight kings. Thoughts on how, if ever, DR will get stuff?

[Nevvermore]

Considering we just got new models for Deathrattle a couple of months ago I think GW thinks that they still have a lot more to give model-wise. Skeletal giants, monsters and warmachines, other races, flying beasts... Look back three months: How many variations of "spooky sheet ghost" did you think GW could come up with? Fast-forward til now: a lot, it turns out... same for skeletons IMO.

[Nevar]

12 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

I think the only thing I could think of is a more theme matching Archer and Catapult set to give the legions an actual range option, and finally bring back mounted wight kings. Thoughts on how, if ever, DR will get stuff?

Also don't forget that we have stolen the Nemesis spotlight from Chaos, so I can hope Death will keep getting more models going forward.

Nighthaunt (and Sacrosanct) are likely the last big release of 2018 for AoS, because they are rumored to be starting a 40k campaign with the Orks and Space Wolves at the end of this year.  Once the Soul Wars and AoS2.0 hype has passed I would predict a very stead march of 40k products into next year.  Obviously they might throw in some AoS stuff here and there but I imagine 40k will take the spotlight again.

That said, I could see small Death releases mixed in with new AoS factions like Daughters of Khaine and Deepkin next year, or even at the end of this year.  With Death being the new poster bad guys, we should expect the Chaos treatment for a while.  Chaos got a swath of new Khorne stuff with the release of AoS.  They then got new Nurgle releases as the conflict with Chaos supposedly ramped up.  AoS2.0 starts with Death ascendant and Nighthaunts showing up, I think we can expect a second aspect of Nagash's Legions getting some kind of release within the foreseeable future.

Although... I have to admit I would put my money on Soulblight before any new Deathrattle stuff.

[kenshin620]

1 minute ago, Nevar said:

Although... I have to admit I would put my money on Soulblight before any new Deathrattle stuff.

Yea thats my thoughts. I would suspect Soulblight/Legion of Blood and Flesheaters to get new stuff before DR. Heck they might do a FCE style giant rather than a skeleton giant.

[Nevar]

2 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Yea thats my thoughts. I would suspect Soulblight/Legion of Blood and Flesheaters to get new stuff before DR. Heck they might do a FCE style giant rather than a skeleton giant.

I don't know about that, FEC is a very weird faction that I have always considered akin to the Fyreslayers.  They are 'sort of' a full army with only a few units that GW seems to have decided "That is good enough" with.  I don't imagine any new FEC stuff will come out anytime soon as they have a Battletome and new enough models.  Likewise I am pretty sure there are some Soulblight units that could be remade that could be shared across the line with FEC like the vhargeist and other monsterous 'vampire' abominations.

I am not going to bet on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if we got some form of Tomb Kings themed units/models that could likely fold into Deathrattle pretty easily.  Before it was all just wild speculation, but the new Core Book specifies that Nefarata has gone and created "New Lhamia" which is a place in Death that reflects her old home.  So there is a 'canon' place in Death currently that has "tomb kings" marching around.  Likewise Van Carstein made himself a new Sylvania 'counts as' inside Death as well.  Sounds like the homes of Soul Blight and Tomb Kings to me.

[kenshin620]

9 minutes ago, Nevar said:

I don't imagine any new FEC stuff will come out anytime soon

Don't tell FCE players that! ?

 

But yea the TK situation is kind of the thing that I was wondering, especially for DR. On one hand they could re-imagine the TK line into the modern models setting, but that sounds expensive for GW. They could just rerelease the models, but then you got the head scale issue (hey people from there just have big heads!)

So I think Soulblight/Vampires has the most potential for next death release, especially if they spin it in a way that benefits Soul Blight, Legion of Blood, and Legion of Night all at once or at the very least have some overlap.

[Nevar]

10 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Don't tell FCE players that! ?

 

But yea the TK situation is kind of the thing that I was wondering, especially for DR. On one hand they could re-imagine the TK line into the modern models setting, but that sounds expensive for GW. They could just rerelease the models, but then you got the head scale issue (hey people from there just have big heads!)

So I think Soulblight/Vampires has the most potential for next death release, especially if they spin it in a way that benefits Soul Blight, Legion fo Blood, and Legion of Night all at one.

Well if I were GW, and I am not, I would release a "Tomb Kings Upgrade Pack" with shields and arms and heads etc, that allows you to easily convert normal skelebobs into tomb king styled units and then release a battle tome for New Lhamia or something like that.  They Necrosphinxes and Sepulchural Stalkers etc. were modern models and could be rereleased, it was really only the older TK stuff that was dated.  If they did it that way, it would only cost them the money and effort to make the upgrade sprue, the battle tome, and maybe update the constructs like scorpions and ashabti as the 'new releases' for the faction.

While for the most part I think I am 'wish listing' there, I will point out that it is not outside GW's recent behavior.  Codex: Deathwatch released with zero new models.  It was literally just a Codex with a bunch of recycled Space Marine models opened up to the Death Watch players, and an upgrade sprue that lets you add the Deathwatch shoulder pad to your marines.  Likewise with Space Marines, they have released iconography upgrade packs for Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels for both their Primaris line and their legacy marines.

So making a sprue that doesn't make a full unit is not something new to GW, and with their current CAD design method, it would not be hard to 'reskin' basic death rattle models to form the core of various different 'Death Chapters'.   Nighthaunt does not need it, but imagine Skelebob upgrade sprues for the new Sylvania armies when Soulblight launches.  Or Tomb King upgrade sprues for New Lhamia.  They could literally just keep the boxes of normal Grave Guard and Skeletons, and make the new heads/equipment needed for other 'chapter's' skeletal units as additional sprues.

[kenshin620]

To be fair Space Marines are, and will forever be, the ultimate modular army ever since 2nd edition with Angel of Death and Space Wolves (and of course it helps to be the best selling product). Very few armies outside of them ever get modular enough to be used cross faction (outside of really old undead which were combined in one book before splitting IIRC).

So there could be Death Rattle upgrade sprues...but on the other hand I think the current DR kits aren't modular enough. One issue is the weapons which have to be combined on the skeletons arms. In fact looking at the current Skeleton Warrior box, I think the only thing you can really keep are the legs and the bare arms for shields, and a few of the bare torsos. That leaves weapons (assuming you need both spears and swords), new shields, new heads (many DR heads are quite medieval) and few more torsos, then thats not even including the command trio. And remember these aren't space marines so I kind of doubt they'll see as much purchase as say Blood Angel upgrade set.  At that point I think making a new "updated tk" skeleton set isn't that much more expensive.

Mantic Games sort of "skipped" this with their Empire of Dust line by combing the entire upper torso in one metal sculpt. Granted that was out of necessity since theres probably no way for them to be able to support plastic "undead Egyptians". And even with the metal conversion pieces, theres only so much poses you can do with an entire upper torso+arms already set.

[Nevar]

I agree, and I don't want to take this thread into the Tomb Kings conspiracy vaults.

I am just pointing out that Deathrattle actually as a very good chance of being updated model wise because skeletons -can- very easily be made modular.  Even if this means a whole new 'Skeleton' for death as a whole.  What I am pointing out above, is that a new Skelebob kit+upgrade sprues would be extremely efficient for GW cost wise.  You produce the skeleton CAD file, which as a 3D artist myself I can tell you is remarkably easy for skeletons, you pose them and do your cut them up into model kits magic.  The cost of the new production line and molds is high, but if you plan to release various "Death Armies" that all can and will want this new Skeleton kit, you will sell them like popcorn.  Likewise some of the production costs will be reduced if they replaced the current skeleton box.

Lastly... on one 'production' sprue not necissarily sold to players this way, you can make New Lhamia, New Sylvania, <insert new death army>, themed upgrade sets on a different mold.  Then either sell them seperately or rebox them with a new skeleton set in fancy "New Lhamia" boxes or "New Sylvania" boxes.

I think Deathrattle is free money for GW is what I am saying in much less words.  So I would not write them off.

[Deadkitten]

The obvious Soulblight unit to redo would be the Blood Knights.  Don't see them doing it as a one off and not part of a bit more of a Soulblight broad release.

[TheOtherJosh]

So ... the new GHB 2018 is “getting rid of” Deathrattle as a useful/viable allegiance choice (you don’t get anything for choosing it and have to take Grand Alliance: Death). And while the keyword is usable as an alliance for Soulblight, there isn’t a benefit for taking it solo.

Nighthaunt has more available options and more tools in the toolbox, Skeletons have been for the most part ‘secondary players/minions’ with the exception of Wight Kings. They fill in the massive slow moving legions ...

To expand them, you would need to resolve the gaps in the death line: Artillery (catapults), Ranged attacks (archers) and Behemoths (Skeletal Giants/giant undead fishes, Necrosphinx.) 

[dmorley21]

To echo what some others are saying, I think Deathrattle has a ton of potential.

Concepts from Tomb Kings, Skeleton Mages, constructs; there's a lot of ways they could be spun and I imagine they will be as skeletons will always be popular and are just as easy to protect from an IP standpoint as ghosts (Nighthaunt).

[Sception]

I mean, the majority of factions in the game are 'just dudes in different armor', I don't see why deathrattle being 'just skeletons in different armor' is a reason why they couldn't be really cool and distinct.  In particular, imo the best part of the best model we've seen out of nighthaunt releases so far, Reikenor the Grim-Hailer, is the statue of a skeleton that the model is balanced on.  I would seriously buy just that bit as a stand alone skeleton hero - not just the detail, or even the style of the armor which is great and distinct, but just the posing of it is amazing.  Just that one bit of that one model makes me hope all the harder for an expanded deathrattle range some time in the future.

[themortalgod]

Personally, I feel Deathrattle and Soulblight were made obsolete by Legions of Nagash anyway which is nbd because you can easily run essentially soulblight and deathrattle armies in respective legions in a much more viable way than before.

[SaJeel]

Legions of Nagash just make skeletons stronger, 

[Sception]

1 hour ago, themortalgod said:

Personally, I feel Deathrattle and Soulblight were made obsolete by Legions of Nagash anyway which is nbd because you can easily run essentially soulblight and deathrattle armies in respective legions in a much more viable way than before.

 

1 hour ago, SaJeel said:

Legions of Nagash just make skeletons stronger, 

OP was talking about as a model line.  They were asking whether, since the new nighthaunts have skeletal appearances plus cool cloaks and big scythes and other aesthetic flairs, any future skeleton models might be doomed to be just 'boring nigjthaunts' by comparison.

I personally don't think so.  All the extra nighthaunt stuff makes them a bit busy and active in a way that isn't bad, but that leaves room for proper skeletons to provide a more grim, sombre, austere alternative.  Less shrieking ghasts and blinding corpselights, more chill silent darkness of the grave.

As an example, I'd again point to the statue Reikenor's steed is balanced on.  Imagine an entire army based on that look, all painted up in black and bone.

I'm not sure I can even point out what I like about it, as it's little removed from the existing deathrattle models in overall look.  A bit more upright, maybe.  A bit more stately, more purposeful in its gait, more focused in its empty gaze.  Less ostentatious than the current wight king model, but more regal.

Anyway, a somber, stately legion of the dead provides a strong and worthwhile visual counterpart to the frenetic, screaming whirl of the nighthaunt line, even if both lines shared similar skeletal visages.

[EccentricCircle]

Weren't the original Tomb Kings skellies an upgrade sprue? I know all the generic bits are on one sprue, while the Khemrian bits are on the other.

[Wraith01]

I hope we get some new Death Rattle models in the next year. I really would like a new Warhammer Quest game to introduce new sculpts for them Kind of like how Silver Tower gave us the first Karic Acolyetes and Tzangors...

[PainfullyMediocre]

I wouldn't think so, damn near all the races have skeletons inside them, they just need a kindly necromancer to bring it out of them.

Plus saying that it will be dull because it's skeletons with x is a bit silly considering freeguild are humans with x and the entire sigmarine range is the same dude with a different hat

Given how out there the deepkin were and the strange allegorical design for the Nighthaunt I'd say GW will make some lovely models for them (eventually)

[kenshin620]

4 hours ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

I wouldn't think so, damn near all the races have skeletons inside them, they just need a kindly necromancer to bring it out of them

Oh believe me, I'd love to see the Cursed Company come back one way or another! But methinks theres a reason why even 3rd parties barely make non-human skeletons.