AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Mark Williams]

1 hour ago, InSaint said:

We started this army because of certain compelling reasons that trumps the price tag.  Sure the army is crazy expensive but players who want it will still buy into it.

 

I got into the army simply because of the aesthetic and the Morathi model. Price wasn’t a consideration, and I’m pretty blasé about the rules and the fact that they are doing so well. I would have played them even if they were doing badly.

Having said that, I’d like to see some new individual character models and endless spells sooner rather than later.

[Souleater]

Vague temptation to snag a third BF if they are still around at the end of January, but need to eBay some stuff first.

[Overread]

Personally I fully expect to get a second wave release for Daughters of Khaine. In fact it surprises me that both Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth, both being early 2.0 ready factions, have not shared a joint release of faction specific Endless Spells. 

 

In the future I'd expect Dok to get at least:

1) One 3 model faction specific Endless Spell set. It's clear that this is the intended direction since we've seen them for all new factions since 2.0 dropped. 

2) A getting started boxed set which might possibly come with a new unique hero for the set. GW could even just provide another hag queen sculpt if they wanted. GW clearly has GS sets for big and small factions, its just a standard part of their model delivery system. 

 

The Blood Coven set was in stock with 3rd parties for quite a while, but UK side it seems that distribution stock has fully dried up now as I don't see any of the regular big stores getting any more. We do have the Christmas battleforce right now (as so do Idoneth) so it might be that a getting started set comes much later because right now the battleforce is an ideal starting point and also expansion to most forces. 

That said GW could make Daughters fans happy if they just released a new Witch Aelf boxed set with a new price that is more in line with a battleline troop type (and do the same for Fyrslayers too). 

 

 

 

Personally I got a Battleforce for Christmas and am really tempted to grab one more before they vanish forever (we've really no idea how long they will last before they vanish and I can figure that the DoK one is going to be a strong seller). I'd then have a full 20 both kinds of khinari; 20 Blood Sisters, enough cauldrons and such to last me a lifetime and more witches (In fact that with the box I got for Chistmas I'd only need one more box to get another full 30 witches)

[Jais]

I'm really torn here with my last points in my list now that Kraith hero phase shenanigans is out-the-window. Anyone have opinions either way for 

100pt Slaughter Queen on foot ( Khaineanite Prayer, Dance of Doom, Venom of Negendra)

80 pts 5 more Lifetaker to round out a unit of 10.

I see many pros and cons for each but don't necessarily have a strong opinion either way. I'm thinking the Slaughter Queen w/ Venom is a Red Herring and takes pressure off of my Hag Queens from hero sniping but left alone can maybe score 2D6 mortal wounds(although her 6 inch movement is rough.) On the other hand 5 more Lifetakers to contest points is excellent and when scenarios are more-models-score that seems pretty invaluable but does then put more spotlight on my Hag Queens. while offering little in the way of damage against armored enemies.

Thoughts?

[Lucentia]

Slaughter Queen also helps you out in missions where heroes/artefacts score, and she's not generally a high priority target so it can be good to have a throwaway hero in the list for those scenarios (especially as most DoK heroes tend to be valuable support pieces that you can't often leave babysitting an objective).  So my vote's probably for her, though that's partly because I don't think the infantry Slaughter Queen sees as much play as her cauldron-mounted variant and its fun to see her on the board!

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Lucentia

[Kramer]

@Jais i’d make it two units of 5 just for the flexibility. Gives you a very slight advantage because if the second champion as well. You can always drop them together if you need the bodies.

the only disadvantage is you can’t buff them as efficiently. But how often does that happen on your deepstriking unit? Mine are usually too far forward for that. 

[Gothicwaltz]

Has anyone considered assembling Sisters of Slaughter with Witch Aelf heads? 

[Overread]

1 hour ago, Gothicwaltz said:

Has anyone considered assembling Sisters of Slaughter with Witch Aelf heads? 

Would be pretty easy to do for many, though you might have to muck around as I don't know if the long hair will fit all the whip positions (I've not put my sisters together so I've no real idea where the whips position relative to the hair). 

The weapons are pretty clear so it would be easy to do without any problems since you get enough heads in the box. 

[Lucentia]

I don't think there are many clashes with whips and hair, I know that at the very least the 'overhead strike' leaping pose works fine with the whips on witch aelves cos that's what I used for my unit champion.  The only real issue would be telling the units apart, but a differing paint scheme would help, or just point out the whips I guess.

Just do a dry fit on heads/arms to make sure there's no clashes before committing.

[Overread]

Out of interest has anyone used Lelith Hesperax as a stand-in-model? 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Dark-Eldar-Lelith-Hesperax

I was thinking she'd make a neat alternative for a hag in a unit of witches. She's already got the same style of gear and weapons, so it's really a question of the overall size comparison and how well she'd fit into a unit. 

[Cheby]

 

32 minutes ago, Overread said:

Out of interest has anyone used Lelith Hesperax as a stand-in-model? 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Dark-Eldar-Lelith-Hesperax

I was thinking she'd make a neat alternative for a hag in a unit of witches. She's already got the same style of gear and weapons, so it's really a question of the overall size comparison and how well she'd fit into a unit. 

I know of one guy in my gaming group that uses her and she doesn't seem out of place at all.

[Overread]

Thanks @Cheby and welcome to TGA!

 

Also I just started making some Witch Aelves from the Battleforce and I wonder if they've refreshed the mould for Witch Aelves because the mould lines on them are really fine/light. Not that my prior experiences were bad, but either its random luck or they've refreshed the mould and its back to really fine mould lines! 

[Kaleun]

I am going to use Lelith as a Witch elve in my Dark Elve Blood Bowl Team. She is a great model and might fit well in a Daughters of Khaine army. I would use her as a Champion though not just a regular Witch elve.

Is anyone else using Dark Eldar Wyches as Sisters of slaughter? I have spare heads from the built witch elves and I will convert the Wyches to SoS. Personally I like their kit a lot and the look more "Gladiator/gladiatrix" then the regular Witch-elve bodies. -> personal opinion.

Problem that occurs: The Wyches got no necks. Neither do the heads of the SoS. So some green stuff is needed...

[Lucentia]

I'm planning on grabbing Lilith for use as a more dynamic Slaughter Queen when I get round to building the cauldron from the battleforce box.

The only problem with mixing in the Dark Eldar stuff is they're way bulkier in the arms than Witch Aelves, fine if you're doing them as separate units, but tricky if you want to swap arms/limbs around!

[Olincay]

Is there anyway to get plusses to hit in our army? I got debuffed to hell at a local tournament yesterday that had my witches hitting on 5's. 

Also messes with catachysm of murder. 

 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

43 minutes ago, Olincay said:

Is there anyway to get plusses to hit in our army? I got debuffed to hell at a local tournament yesterday that had my witches hitting on 5's. 

Also messes with catachysm of murder. 

 

Isn’t catachysm unmodified? Not got tome to hand sorry 

[Overread]

It is indeed the unmodified roll. 

 

That said considering how many attacks units like Witches can put out I don't think there are any blanket "to hit" spells or auras for units in the army. There might be a relic for a leader to get a bonus, but not for basic troops. It would just be too broken to have units duel blade witch aelves in leader range to get that many attacks and a bonus to their "to hit" chance.

 

The best way to deal with an army that is cutting down your abilities is to identify the unit(s) within that army which are causing issues and remove them from play or avoid their ability/spell range. Otherwise take more twin-blade aelves so that your number of attacks is greater and gets around a lower to-hit value. 

[Mark Williams]

Does anyone have any recommendations for colour scheme for Khailebron armor?

 I was at the GW store today and we theorized stegadon scale green for the leather, with a wash of either nulin oil or nightshade, then highlighted with kantor blue.

for metal it seems ret armor for gold or leadbelcher for steel.

[Lucentia]

22 hours ago, Olincay said:

Is there anyway to get plusses to hit in our army? I got debuffed to hell at a local tournament yesterday that had my witches hitting on 5's. 

Also messes with catachysm of murder. 

 

Draichi Ganeth trait is the only way to get an innate To Hit bonus to my knowledge (+1 to hit rolls for melee weapons for any unit which made a charge move in the same turn.)

However you can also overcome To Hit penalties with the Hagg Nar re-roll to hit rolls if you throw enough attacks at the wall (Just be aware that re-rolls are applied before modifiers.)

[Olincay]

I was cornered by 2 VLOVD in relocation orb turn 1 basically pinning my whole army into place. I did position in such a way that he would hit my chaff with my big blocks then pilling in and attacking. 

I thought with 3 rounds of combat,  my combat his turn, my hero phase combat and then my combat phase turn 1 they'd be dead. Apparently i was wrong haha. 

For clarification i was using double bladed witches. 

Cheers for clarifying catachysm is unmodified tho.  Thanx people. 

Picture to clarify my setup

 

[Olincay]

While im at it i thought i'd share some daughters hobby. 

Cauldron minus the slaughter queen and elves complete. 

[Lucentia]

Is that one squad of 30 witches doing the classic Relocation Orb zig-zag up front there?  Although Daughters are probably the premiere melee army in the game I have found you do have to be careful not to deploy/move into a position where your blender units can be locked down, and in your scenario above it looks like the VLoZD can tag a small portion of the screening unit and also get in 3" of the other big Witch unit behind the first? (Though obviously that's just eyeballing it) where the first unit will not have enough models in range to chip through a 3+ re-rolling 1s save, and the second unit will be stuck behind the first unit.  Then if the second VLoZD reaches the other side of the screening witch squad they'll get stuck and your whole army will get snarled up in a grindy combat (couple that with any debuffs to make things take longer, as you rightly said).  You can get similar scenarios against buffed Frostheart Phoenix (Which combine good saves and debuffs in one fast moving package!), Stardrakes (A save stat which Witches will not be able to chew through, and it can use its chomp attacks to potentially kill half your unit via coherency removal) and sometimes stuff like Plaguebearers.  Anything that leaves you stuck in place for more than a turn is going to be costly for Daughters I find.

I'm not particularly good at avoiding this myself!  I never have enough screening elements to block properly, and I', bad at deployment anyway.  Sometimes it's just a case of knowing when to retreat one or more of the pinned units, reversing the situation for a turn or two by leaving their bruiser units stuck fighting your defensive Hagg Nar screen whilst you go score objectives until you're in a position to strike back.  Slaughter Troupe can help with this, though then you'd need more Sisters of Slaughter over Witches.

[Overread]

@Olincay looking very bloody there indeed! Nice work on the base!

 

The end is in sight for me! Or at least meaningfully closer! I've just ordered a second Battleforce which means that I'll soon have 

20 heartrenders
20 lifetakers
4 Cauldron/Shrine kits (ergo 4 hags, 4 slaughters, 4 avatars and 4 bloodwrath)
20 Bloodsisters
80 Witch Aelves. 

Which means that I shouldn't need any more khinari, cauldron kits and only one more witch aelf kit to round out all those components of my army! I also only need 5 more Doomfires to have 20 (with their price in points its hard to imagine needing many more and being able to field them). 

This basically will wrap up a huge part of army building, leaving me just needing Sisters of Slaughter and more snakes. Which is great because I was aiming to have at least 90 witches by Feb when I'll start the daunting task of painting properly. 

 

[Olincay]

2 hours ago, Lucentia said:

Is that one squad of 30 witches doing the classic Relocation Orb zig-zag up front there?  Although Daughters are probably the premiere melee army in the game I have found you do have to be careful not to deploy/move into a position where your blender units can be locked down, and in your scenario above it looks like the VLoZD can tag a small portion of the screening unit and also get in 3" of the other big Witch unit behind the first? (Though obviously that's just eyeballing it) where the first unit will not have enough models in range to chip through a 3+ re-rolling 1s save, and the second unit will be stuck behind the first unit.  Then if the second VLoZD reaches the other side of the screening witch squad they'll get stuck and your whole army will get snarled up in a grindy combat (couple that with any debuffs to make things take longer, as you rightly said).  You can get similar scenarios against buffed Frostheart Phoenix (Which combine good saves and debuffs in one fast moving package!), Stardrakes (A save stat which Witches will not be able to chew through, and it can use its chomp attacks to potentially kill half your unit via coherency removal) and sometimes stuff like Plaguebearers.  Anything that leaves you stuck in place for more than a turn is going to be costly for Daughters I find.

I'm not particularly good at avoiding this myself!  I never have enough screening elements to block properly, and I', bad at deployment anyway.  Sometimes it's just a case of knowing when to retreat one or more of the pinned units, reversing the situation for a turn or two by leaving their bruiser units stuck fighting your defensive Hagg Nar screen whilst you go score objectives until you're in a position to strike back.  Slaughter Troupe can help with this, though then you'd need more Sisters of Slaughter over Witches.

I agree completely with what you said.

I knew the vlozd would chew through the 10 man blocker letting me get most but not all of the 30 blob around him in 3 turns of piling in. 

Next time ill keep them away from 3" instead of 2, ive come accustom to keeping my big blobs just in range of my screens so i can pile into what ever hits it and start chopping it up. 

[BionicRope64]

HI, So new year I collected up quite an army models to build. Still got a bit of the BF box and I got a lot of Witch Aelevs boxes for cheap.

Problems is I need some tips on what to build them as. I already have 20 Witches with Bucklers.

I have 6 boxes left to make, I wanna make Sisters of Slaughter as well, be a nice change form Witches.

I'm thinking 30 Witches with daggers and 20 Sisters with bucklers. But what should I do with the last box? Either raise the Buckler witches to 30 or raise the Sisters to 30? 

Also Sisters I'm more tempted by Bucklers but are the knives worth it, shorter range but an extra attack isn't to be ignored. But raising that +6 to a +5 and a possible mortal wound is good as well.

Final question, but what Battalions should I aim for, I got enough to make the Temple Nest. But I'm thinking eietrh Claudorn guard or Slaughter Troupe? The latter means I have to actually build a second unit of Sisters but that won't be too hard. Claudorngaurd feels more useful, I know Lifetakers aren't amazing but that +1 to charge means they can tie up enemy units and heroes better.