AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Just now, Gecktron said:

I really like this idea! Looks great! 

It just makes a bit of sense in my head! The boats come and unload the troops and sail off. The arkanauts are away for a protracted amount of time so they need ways to navigate the aethergold and back to the ships aswell! I'm also currently making a model In each unit as a signal man, so they can notify any nearby vessels for pickup or support! I like KO as I can make them very realistic  (even with flying ships haha!!!) In how they go to war and mine the aether. (This one needs a bit of repair work! Kind of like a KO style champion musician and standard bearer for each unit!

[5kaven5lave]

9 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

I ordered 3 more boxes of thunderers this weekend for my LGS to arrive by this friday to go with my 10 already(the third box is to redo the special weapons on my first 5 thunderers as they currently have illegal weapons with 5 cannons... and then to use those 5 spare as crew men for my ironclad for aesthetics). I'm really loving the thunderers now this book and ive always preferred how they look model wise over arkanauts.

+1 for buying loads of Thunderers. Such a cool unit. 

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

6 minutes ago, Azamar said:

From the wording it looks like it only affects the sky vessel he’s embarked on unfortunately. 
 

I’d wondered about the point of that command ability as well, although the universal reroll 1s to hit is a matched play only thing, so I guess it makes a difference it open or narrative games. 
 

I still think the admiral is very useful I should add, for the reasons you and others have mentioned.

Yeah I know that it only affects his sky vessel  it is still a budget buy of reroll 1s to hit for that vessel and its occupants other than spending multiple CPs to get the same affect

 

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 minute ago, 5kaven5lave said:

+1 for buying loads of Thunderers. Such a cool unit. 

I still have too many frigates I cant use! 5 haha... I went crazy when the KO first ever came out... 2 ironclad too. The only thing I never got was the haulers as I hated them. But now I have 3 for the escort wing since the book came out. So yeah I'm liking how our book has but the ships back in the spot light. Mid tier but better than never being used tier. I usually play Ironjawz, Slaves to Darkness or Beasts of Chaos so it's a nice change to go back to the Dawi 

[novembermike]

55 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

I play Fyreslayers myself and trust me, what wont kill 10 Vulkites will also not kill 10 arkanauts as they will have a 4+ rerollable if its that important. 

The TRUTH is that both units are probably equal as tarpit, while Arkanauts are cheaper and more reliable (at least wholly within 9“ of an objective) while Vulkites are beefier, so better against MWs. 

But why would you „ally“ in an equally effective unit when you could take a better unit by taking HGB with some support. 

The whole story is that when you just want a tarpit/ screen you are better off taking Arkanauts, at least with KO. 

 

Edit: Also Arkanauts have smaller bases which is imo an advantage. 

You can place a Khemist and Fumigator Thunderers behind them to make even range 2“ enemies -2 to hit your 90-180 pt unit with a 4+ rerollable. 

Which leaves Thunderers in close combat so they can counter with +1A +1 to hit on all their special weapons

(If you dont plan on putting them in a garrison but play them as objective holder those special weapons are SO good actually) 

Fyi: 1) 2 Thunderers with Cannons and +1 to hit / +1 A for being in combat deal ~ 4 dmg against 4+ Save. 

2) 10 Thunderers firing out of a garrison with rifles deal ~ 5 dmg against 4+ Save. 

 

1) Has potentially 8 other Thunderers left to shoot. 

I will definately get another box of Thunderers to build another 4 special weapons. 

I'm a little confused here, what do you think the point of the vulkites is?

1. Despite what you're saying they are tougher than Arkanauts. It's 40 wounds for 280 points vs 30 wounds for 270,  the Vulkites have fewer models so they're more resistant to battleshock and while 4+ vs 5+ evens out the wounds, Vulkites get a  4+ in melee most of the time and the extra wounds are superior vs rend.
2. The Vulkites have more turn 1 mobility. Arkanaut really need a Frigate for mobility and then they can only be taken in 10 man squads. Vulkites can go in a big blob just deep strike with a Smiter.
3. The Vulkites hit harder in melee. In an extended fight they can clear off an objective even against solid units.

Arkanauts are good but they don't fill the same role of putting a hard hitting anvil down in the middle of enemy territory.

[Azamar]

24 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Yeah I know that it only affects his sky vessel  it is still a budget buy of reroll 1s to hit for that vessel and its occupants other than spending multiple CPs to get the same affect

 

Sorry- to be clear I meant that the command ability doesn’t affect him or any others in the garrison, it only gives the rerolls to the ship itself. Unless I’ve missed something in the garrison rules, they’re still separate units. 
 

In comparison, the repel boarders command ability definitely does benefit the garrison.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Azamar

[zilberfrid]

38 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Thanks for that advice Zilberfrid! I've been putting it off for 2 years haha best do it now🤣🤣

The **** was the noun of sticking a needle into something.

[Phasteon]

27 minutes ago, novembermike said:

I'm a little confused here, what do you think the point of the vulkites is?

1. Despite what you're saying they are tougher than Arkanauts. It's 40 wounds for 280 points vs 30 wounds for 270,  the Vulkites have fewer models so they're more resistant to battleshock and while 4+ vs 5+ evens out the wounds, Vulkites get a  4+ in melee most of the time and the extra wounds are superior vs rend.
2. The Vulkites have more turn 1 mobility. Arkanaut really need a Frigate for mobility and then they can only be taken in 10 man squads. Vulkites can go in a big blob just deep strike with a Smiter.
3. The Vulkites hit harder in melee. In an extended fight they can clear off an objective even against solid units.

Arkanauts are good but they don't fill the same role of putting a hard hitting anvil down in the middle of enemy territory.

Thats your opinion. I play both units and I disagree.

Pls stop putting units in a vacuum to fit your point. You say that Arkanauts need a Frigate for mobility and Vulkites deepstrike with a Smiter, but you never mentioned the 120 points for the Smiter. And the 3 other units you need to field him. 

You need a total of 8 units and 400 points to make 20 Vulkites deepstrike. 

Thats 20% (i learned how to quickmath ;-)) of your army for a tarpit that is VERY weak to battleshock without another CP to make them stay after they took the beating. 

Edit: And before you mention the same goes for Arkanauts. You have multiple ways aside from Aethergold which is better spent for rerolling saves, to make them autopass battleshock. 

If you REALLY want to go nuts, just play 40 Arkanauts with Zilfin (360p) and double run them with the footnote. Thats 20“ movement. Fly high a ship with admiral behind or in the middle of them (leave a whole while moving) for 12“ immune to battleshock. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Phasteon

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

21 minutes ago, Azamar said:

Sorry- to be clear I meant that the command ability doesn’t affect him or any others in the garrison, it only gives the rerolls to the ship itself. Unless I’ve missed something in the garrison rules, they’re still separate units. 
 

In comparison, the repel boarders command ability definitely does benefit the garrison.

Sorry yeah your completely right! I must have been reading the command ability below it! Hmmm well then.... that's a pretty bad ability now that it's a reflection of the standard match play one....

Edited January 13, 2020 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[novembermike]

15 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Thats your opinion. I play both units and I disagree.

Pls stop putting units in a vacuum to fit your point. You say that Arkanauts need a Frigate for mobility and Vulkites deepstrike with a Smiter, but you never mentioned the 120 points for the Smiter. And the 3 other units you need to field him. 

You need a total of 8 units and 400 points to make 20 Vulkites deepstrike. 

Thats 20% (i learned how to quickmath ;-)) of your army for a tarpit that is VERY weak to battleshock without another CP to make them stay after they took the beating. 

Which part is opinion? It seems like you're disagreeing with the math, which is math so either right or wrong. I didn't mention 120 points for the Smiter but I also didn't mention 750 points for the frigates you'd need to transport 30 arkanauts, I figured people could do the math there themselves.

[Phasteon]

24 minutes ago, novembermike said:

Which part is opinion? It seems like you're disagreeing with the math, which is math so either right or wrong. I didn't mention 120 points for the Smiter but I also didn't mention 750 points for the frigates you'd need to transport 30 arkanauts, I figured people could do the math there themselves.

You dont NEED 3 Frigates, but while doing so you could as well spend the extra points for the battalion and disembark after movement, which is like one of the best objective capture methods in the current game. 

 

I dont disagree with your math I disagree with how you think the units work (or dont work)

 

Edit: Your point is wrong on so many levels, dont know where to start... 

What about the fact that 3 Frigates with 10 Arkanauts each can teleport EACH turn, while also having major firepower as compared to your 40 wounds +5 for 400 points that can teleport once and then are stuck with M4“ ... I REALLY dont want to sound rude, but I really doubt that some of you guys play the game. You are all good at mathhammering things but when it comes to actual strategy its like talking to an alien ..

 

Can we just come to the agreement that Vulkite Berzerkers are a very good unit for their cost, and that it probably wont hurt to play them in a Thrying list but that there are other options that can be at least as good? 

I‘m kinda done arguing here, especially when it comes down to regarding points for numbers without comparing them to the whole picture (like abilities, other uses, army synergies, battlefield role, and whatnot) 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Phasteon

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

34 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

The **** was the noun of sticking a needle into something.

I assumed as much 🤣

[Azamar]

16 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Sorry yeah your completely right! I must have been reading the command ability below it! Hmmm well then.... that's a pretty bad ability now that it's a reflection of the standard match play one....

It’s a bit of a shame it isn’t +1 to hit or reroll wounds or something. On the bright side it’s only one of his (unusually large number) of command abilities, and it’s a prime candidate to fire off using the proclaimer mask each round (something you couldn’t do with the matched play ability as it’s only for ones on the warscroll). 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Azamar

[Causalis]

25 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Sorry yeah your completely right! I must have been reading the command ability below it! Hmmm well then.... that's a pretty bad ability now that it's a reflection of the standard match play one....

Yup. That's my point. The Admiral is only (somewhat) good if you take him with an artifact and command trait. Otherwise his abilities are very situational or simply more restrictive copies of the rulebook abilities. Which is a shame.  So then the question is why you wouldn't take f.ex. a flying Endrinmaster. He's cheaper than an Admiral + normal Endrinmaster but has more punch than both of them, heals the ship more, has a strong artefact (bombs) and can use the rulebook abilities to copy the Admiral's. 

[cofaxest]

48 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

You need a total of 8 units and 400 points to make 20 Vulkites deepstrike. 

You can take Vulkites for 4 KO units and Smiter as Ally.

[Phasteon]

Just now, Causalis said:

Yup. That's my point. The Admiral is only (somewhat) good if you take him with an artifact and command trait. Otherwise his abilities are very situational or simply more restrictive copies of the rulebook abilities. Which is a shame.  So then the question is why you wouldn't take f.ex. a flying Endrinmaster. He's cheaper than an Admiral + normal Endrinmaster but has more punch than both of them, heals the ship more, has a strong artefact (bombs) and can use the rulebook abilities to copy the Admiral's. 

1. I agree that the Admiral is very dependend on Traits/ Artifacts. 

Barak-Nar Admiral as General is just a waste, which is ok i guess because you could technically run Grungsson as he is the most badass Admiral of all time (apart from my Admiral of course but thats a different story haha) 

2. The flying Endrinmaster is indeed a very good choice, but just his shooting is better than Admiral/Master combined. His Melee is inferior to the Admirals tbh. and he is 220 alone, while Admiral and Master on foot are 240 combined but are also stronger combined. (12“ no battleshock, inbuilt 5+ bodyguard)

 

But I‘m probably not really objectively judging the Admiral because he is my favorite model and I really want to like him. 

That being said he never failed me, and imo he definately got better with the new tome. 

[Phasteon]

9 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

You can take Vulkites for 4 KO units and Smiter as Ally.

But why wouldnt you just pay 120pts more and take 20 HGB who hit more than twice as hard and can take double the damage in return? 

But yeah you are definately right about that, didnt think of it!

[GDD]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Can I just add GW also makes it a point that often it’s just a part of the gods that appear in the mortal realms and rarely the whole shebang. 

I've heard this so many times(not just in this thread) and I've yet to find a source on this. I don't know if this is something that's been echoed around so much everyone takes it for granted, but I'm suspecting this is a myth. If anyone has a source for it I'd love to read it.

I remember reading about Nagash having avatars and "aspects" of himself all over the shop in the books, but that's not really concrete evidence that this is "definitely" what is happening on the table top. It could be a reasonable explanation for what is going on from a narrative sense, but let's not forget that Nagash has already "died" several times in the AoS lore and he just keeps rezzing himself -courtesy of being the god of (un)death. Same with Alarielle being reborn as different aspects of herself.

I think another likely explanation is just that all our table top games aren't "canon" in the lore

[5kaven5lave]

2 questions now that my stuff has finally arrived:

1. New Endrinriggers with Grapnel Launcher right? To protect the ships by locking in the enemy? Or Drill Launcher for damage?

2. Are all the ships on the ball and socket flightstands? How bad are they?

Ta!!

[GDD]

5 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

But why wouldnt you just pay 120pts more and take 20 HGB who hit more than twice as hard and can take double the damage in return?

Yeah if I'm going Barak-Thryng this is definitely where my eyes go first. But it starts to get really expensive with deepstriking Hearthguard for non-local objectives when you also want to take boats, thunderers etc.

I think a list with 30 Arkanauts for local objectives and 20 Vulkites for non-local ones might be a nice budget option to make this work.
(I tried to make one but I ended up with 20 Arkanauts... Toys are expensive) This is 1980pts.

HEROS

• Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit         220
  • General
  • Alchemical Chain
• Runesmiter         120

SHIPS

• Frigate                            250
• Frigate                            250

UNITS

• 10x Grundstock Thunderers            240
• 10x Grundstock Thunderers            240
• 3x Endrinriggers                    100
• 3x Endrinriggers                    100
• 20x Arkanauts                        180
• 20x Vulkite Berzerkers      280

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

30 minutes ago, Causalis said:

Yup. That's my point. The Admiral is only (somewhat) good if you take him with an artifact and command trait. Otherwise his abilities are very situational or simply more restrictive copies of the rulebook abilities. Which is a shame.  So then the question is why you wouldn't take f.ex. a flying Endrinmaster. He's cheaper than an Admiral + normal Endrinmaster but has more punch than both of them, heals the ship more, has a strong artefact (bombs) and can use the rulebook abilities to copy the Admiral's. 

Yeah I think I said before I'd take the flying endrinmaster over the admiral if i wanted a CC hero to go fight something. The admiral is just more accurate vs monsters/heroes and has his 5+++ pass off wounds. Its more of a list building thing I guess mainly. Atm I've only used the endrinmaster on foot due to the high pts cost of the suit variant.

[Causalis]

7 minutes ago, GDD said:

I've heard this so many times(not just in this thread) and I've yet to find a source on this. I don't know if this is something that's been echoed around so much everyone takes it for granted, but I'm suspecting this is a myth. If anyone has a source for it I'd love to read it.

I remember reading about Nagash having avatars and "aspects" of himself all over the shop in the books, but that's not really concrete evidence that this is "definitely" what is happening on the table top. It could be a reasonable explanation for what is going on from a narrative sense, but let's not forget that Nagash has already "died" several times in the AoS lore and he just keeps rezzing himself -courtesy of being the god of (un)death. Same with Alarielle being reborn as different aspects of herself.

I think another likely explanation is just that all our table top games aren't "canon" in the lore

In the first Soulwars book it is described that Nagash has "reserved" some of his conscience. This reserved part is what appears in his different avatars, depending on the believe of the people. F.ex in the book there is mention that some people in Shyish believe in Nagash as the Prince of Bones or something and there is a text passage where the main Nagash talks to Arkhan, whilst the small splinter of him that represents the Prince of Bones actually manifests on a battlefield to aid his people. 

But the mini we have is the real, main-body Nagash. He is depicted as this on his throne in Nagashizzar, which is where his main-body is most of the time. 

Go read the Soulwars books btw. They are good fun. The scene where Nagash pulls off his great magic to create the Shyish-Nadir is awesome. The chaos gods manifest in his sanctuary and try to disrupt the ritual and Nagash just insults them as lesser gods. Guess he is allowed the big ego. He has defeated and absorbed pretty much all other Death Gods he came across after all. (Which makes it that much more infuriating that he get's his butt kicked in the lore over and over again)

[Kramer]

52 minutes ago, GDD said:

ve heard this so many times(not just in this thread) and I've yet to find a source on this. I don't know if this is something that's been echoed around so much everyone takes it for granted, but I'm suspecting this is a myth. If anyone has a source for it I'd love to read it.

I defiantly read it myself. Don’t know the title anymore tho. 
but this is the story and I’ll try to tell it without spoilers and hope someone else can provide the name. 
sigmar goes to one of the realms and meets with Allarielle. He waits for a bit because he isn’t sure she will appear. They talk about the old pantheon. Why it failed and the new arrangements. Allarielle is still angry. And leaves without much having happened. 
i think it might be in the realmgate war books

EDIT wasn’t realmgate. Was a short story  

also Nagash is often described as being spread out across his realm. For example in the shadespire book.

but honestly I think it’s just an ‘out’ for the writers. So the gods can be all powerful but still be threatened. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Kramer

[The Art of Caesura]

Loving the resurgence of our Overlords!! Here are Thundrik's boys, I'm still working on the man himself!

https://the-art-of-caesura.blogspot.com/2020/01/a-hardy-crew-thundriks-profiteers-part-i.html

[novembermike]

49 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

But why wouldnt you just pay 120pts more and take 20 HGB who hit more than twice as hard and can take double the damage in return? 

But yeah you are definately right about that, didnt think of it!

HGB are only tough with a hero nearby, and a runesmiter is relatively easy to snipe off. If we had a magmadroth or something with then that might make sense (and it might make sense) but I'd be wary of going too hard into fyreslayers since you don't have a lot of the fyreslayer synergies.