AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[l1censetochill]

2 hours ago, Maturin said:

No problem mate. Thanks for the link, that's an unusual list there! How do you think he plays that ?

Funnily enough, the event was streamed and that guy's match against a Tempest Eye list was the featured match in round 1! You can watch it here. I had it on while painting this weekend, so I can give a basic recap from what I remember:

It was Battle For the Pass, so triangular deployment and 4 objectives in a diamond.

- On turn 1, he drops the Comet, runs the Stardrake and uses his mortal wound shooting attack, and deepstrikes the Celestant-Prime for the scepter attack, all in the middle of the opponent's castle. He kills like all of the foot heroes (Cogsmith, Sorceress) alongside a bunch of Handgunners/Darkshards, and prevents the opponent from even attempting to cast Soulscream Bridge. At this point, the game is basically already over.
- He auto-charges the Prime into the artillery and destroys a Rocket Battery, then it immediately gets blown up by the two remaining Volley Guns.
- He deepstrikes the Decimators and tries to charge them into a block of Handgunners, but fails the charge. They get shot to pieces. Two eventually make it in, but accomplish nothing.
- Stormcast heroes take one middle objective, a Liberator squad takes the other. Most of the enemy army was turtled up in in their deployment zone expecting to get moved via Soulscream Bridge. The only Tempest Eye unit with mobility is the Freeguild General on Griffin.
- Stardrake + a Liberator squad eventually chew through all of the Handgunners alongside a bunch of mortal wounds from Drake shooting + Comet. Handgunner unit was so big it couldn't move and never got out of the deployment zone.
- Fulminators spend the whole game chasing around the Griffin. They eventually die, but help contest the objective in the SCE deployment zone for a couple turns to deny points.

Hard to tell how the list usually plays, as this matchup was a weird one and the enemy army was basically screwed after their Sorceress died on turn 1. I'd venture to guess that the gameplan would stay pretty much the same, though: spam mortal wounds with the Stardrake and summoning/dispelling the Comet as often as possible, run and charge the Stardrake with the Heraldor to pin as many enemy units as possible early while the Liberators score points, deepstrike the Decimators into enemy hordes/chaff, and hold the Prime to charge and take out an important unit on turn 2-3 (obviously this time it made sense on turn 1). I'm a bit skeptical of the Decimators myself, especially after how bad they were in the first game - but obviously the list as a whole worked well enough, so more power to him!

[Turragor]

8 hours ago, l1censetochill said:

So I was the only one who actually replied to your proposed lists with any concrete suggestions, which makes me feel like a lot of what you're saying is directed at my response. I'm not offended or anything by it, but I do think it's a chance to have a dialogue about it.

I read the edit to your above post (before you re-edited, when it was longer), and felt like I should point out - while I did post one list alteration that swapped in Concussors and Longstrikes for the Desolators and other stuff and made it basically a Shootcast list, the other one was pretty much the same exact core with a couple of changes: dropping the endless spells, Longstrikes and Aetherwings for two units of Hurricane Crossbows, which is decidedly off-meta and pretty true to the original list. And I felt I explained my rationale behind the choices pretty well, focusing mostly on overall army synergy and gameplanning, not focusing on what other people/lists are doing.

So at no point did I mean for my reply to say, "your lists suck, take PJetski's Shootcast list," but rather, "in giving it some thought, have you tried this?" with a fairly detailed explanation of how I felt the changes would benefit the list. Ending with the statement, "hope these list ideas help, or at least inspire some thought/discussion," along with a pretty straightforward admission that I wasn't totally confident that the lists I came up with were particularly good. I'm always totally open to the possibility that my changes were wrong and would make the list worse, but I think it's much more productive to talk about why/why not than to accuse people of (to paraphrase) only chasing meta lists and not being smart/experienced enough to understand your ideas.

I was honestly just hoping to provide constructive feedback, not to trash Stardrakes or hate on you for liking them. Indeed, I really want Stardrakes to be great so I can run one. But the alternative to offering a critique would be to simply reply,  "hell yeah, praise Sigmar, take the Stardrake and the Celestant-Prime, so awesome!!1!😆" Which is just as blithe and unhelpful as saying "u shud just take Shootcast instead LOL." Neither of those outcomes are productive or desirable, in my opinion.

So apologies if my evaluation felt overly blunt or judgmental - it wasn't meant to be. But at the same time, I think your response is a bit of a mischaracterization of my post, as well. And if your response has been colored by past posts in the thread where you got dismissive feedback, I get that, and I'm sorry for it. But I just felt the need to point out that that isn't what I was doing at all, and I genuinely hope your list does well in your upcoming tournament!

No no your response was excellent. It helped me edit away the ****** from mine (in which I was mainly trying to point out that there are decent lists that can be overlooked in the race to change them to more mera ish lists). 

My post was awful looking back on it in the cold light of morning - tiredly trying to express an idea and failing largely

[TomParry84]

Went 4-1 at blood shed with this list last weekend:

Was such a fun tournament! I am looking at maybe swapping out the evocators and heraldor for a Prime, but not too sure this list can cope with losing the bodies...

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by TomParry84

[Raffonerd]

26 minutes ago, TomParry84 said:

Went 4-1 at blood shed with this list last weekend:

Was such a fun tournament! I am looking at maybe swapping out the evocators and heraldor for a Prime, but not too sure this list can cope with losing the bodies...

 

Hi Tom,

Don't you are to weak against heavy spell lists on turn 1/2? I would have played the incantor at least in 1x. Also skink don't allow you to use anvils ability. 

I've been playing without aquilor and skink for: geminds incators 2x.

Found the list very strong, but against heavy horde like a bit under. I thought to move into desolators + castellant and drop evo + heraldor and 1 incantor. Where did you loss?

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Raffonerd

[rockmanko]

the new Christmas SCE Battleforce catch my eyes!

Can anyone give me some advise how should I build a starter army with the new boxset?

My initial thoughts is to get a Arcanum(On Gryph-charger I guess) as general so I could have Sequitors battle line

 

Leader

Arcanum(On Gryph-charger) 220

Heraldor 100

Castellant 120

Celestant (on foot) 100

 

Battleline

Sequitors x10 260

Sequitors x5 130

Sequitors x5 130

 

Units

Evoactors x5 220

Evocators on Monstrous x3 300

Evocators on Monstrous x3 300

 

Total 1880 so far

Is the list ok?

[KoganStyle]

Jumping on the above comment; I have picked up the Soul Wars SCE half of the box - does the Battleforce make for a better addition than the Tempest of Souls box? Or both?! 

[XReN]

19 minutes ago, KoganStyle said:

Jumping on the above comment; I have picked up the Soul Wars SCE half of the box - does the Battleforce make for a better addition than the Tempest of Souls box? Or both?! 

Buy it if you like Dracoline models, they are a decent unit, if not - tempest is probably better, as well as normal unit boxes

[XReN]

I wish this box came out last year, right now I already have everything I want for my Sacrosanct chamber but 3 dracolines and 2 LOrdinators

[schwabbele]

51 minutes ago, rockmanko said:

Can anyone give me some advise how should I build a starter army with the new boxset?

Buy astreia soulbright and use her as LAoCD and build around the 6 draco cators. There are list on the last few pages. 

[l1censetochill]

4 hours ago, TomParry84 said:

Went 4-1 at blood shed with this list last weekend:

Was such a fun tournament! I am looking at maybe swapping out the evocators and heraldor for a Prime, but not too sure this list can cope with losing the bodies...

 

Hey Tom - congratulations on the 4-1! I watched your game in round 1 (which I believe was your only loss, to a Cities list) on the Honest Wargamer stream and enjoyed it a lot. Any chance we could get a brief recap on what armies your opponents were running and how the games played out (or whatever you can remember)?

[TomParry84]

4 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

Hi Tom,

Don't you are to weak against heavy spell lists on turn 1/2? I would have played the incantor at least in 1x. Also skink don't allow you to use anvils ability. 

I've been playing without aquilor and skink for: geminds incators 2x.

Found the list very strong, but against heavy horde like a bit under. I thought to move into desolators + castellant and drop evo + heraldor and 1 incantor. Where did you loss?

 

I have two dispels and can kill any wizards that may cause me issues in turn 1/2 with the crossbows.

I lost vs 21 terrodons, horrible list!

[TomParry84]

8 minutes ago, l1censetochill said:

Hey Tom - congratulations on the 4-1! I watched your game in round 1 (which I believe was your only loss, to a Cities list) on the Honest Wargamer stream and enjoyed it a lot. Any chance we could get a brief recap on what armies your opponents were running and how the games played out (or whatever you can remember)?

Thanks man - it was a tough tournament! I actually won vs cities (we did a quick turn 5 after the stream finished) and lost game 4 to a Seraphon list with 21 terradons in it, not much I could do unfortunately.

Game 1 v cities - minor win on total commitment

Game 2 v blades of Khorne - major win on scorched earth

Game 3 v Shootcast - major win on 3 places of arcane power

game 4 v seraphon - lost on total conquest

game 5 v seraphon - won on battle for the pass

[l1censetochill]

6 minutes ago, TomParry84 said:

Thanks man - it was a tough tournament! I actually won vs cities (we did a quick turn 5 after the stream finished) and lost game 4 to a Seraphon list with 21 terradons in it, not much I could do unfortunately.

Game 1 v cities - minor win on total commitment

Game 2 v blades of Khorne - major win on scorched earth

Game 3 v Shootcast - major win on 3 places of arcane power

game 4 v seraphon - lost on total conquest

game 5 v seraphon - won on battle for the pass

Wow, good to know - when they cut away just before the end of round 4 and concluded "it's over, no way Tom can win this one," while tallying points, I was blinking and going, "wait... what? There's still a round to go and the Cities army is down to scraps - if he wins priority he could absolutely clutch this one out!"

Do you remember how turn 5 played out? Did you win priority?

Either way, thanks for the info, and congrats again on the finish!

[Raffonerd]

29 minutes ago, TomParry84 said:

I have two dispels and can kill any wizards that may cause me issues in turn 1/2 with the crossbows.

I lost vs 21 terrodons, horrible list!

The thing is more first turn endless spell. Cause if you have 1 incantor you can block it and kill the mage in your turn. 

Without it, a lucky roll and you could have annoying problems. Anyway, they let you shot at 30" in hero phase or at 24"?

[Nizrah]

Could we make better list for 1250? Master class TO

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Lord-Relictor (100)
- General
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Spell: Chain Lightning
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (510)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
5 x Retributors (200)
- 2x Starsoul Maces

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 75
 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Nizrah

[Klasa]

9 hours ago, TomParry84 said:

Went 4-1 at blood shed with this list last weekend:

Was such a fun tournament! I am looking at maybe swapping out the evocators and heraldor for a Prime, but not too sure this list can cope with losing the bodies...

 

Saw the batrep against cities,  likes your list a lot! Nice touch with the starseer, consider the idea stolen 😛

[Raffonerd]

1 hour ago, Nizrah said:

Could we make better list for 1250? Master class TO

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Lord-Relictor (100)
- General
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Spell: Chain Lightning
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (510)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
5 x Retributors (200)
- 2x Starsoul Maces

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 75
 

Mmm Better azyros and 5 evos then incantor and Retributors. But depends on the meta that you expect.

[TomParry84]

18 hours ago, l1censetochill said:

Wow, good to know - when they cut away just before the end of round 4 and concluded "it's over, no way Tom can win this one," while tallying points, I was blinking and going, "wait... what? There's still a round to go and the Cities army is down to scraps - if he wins priority he could absolutely clutch this one out!"

Do you remember how turn 5 played out? Did you win priority?

Either way, thanks for the info, and congrats again on the finish!

Lost priority so needed ti kill one shadow warrior to win the major which I failed to do so it was 21-21 in the end, got the minor win

[TomParry84]

18 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

The thing is more first turn endless spell. Cause if you have 1 incantor you can block it and kill the mage in your turn. 

Without it, a lucky roll and you could have annoying problems. Anyway, they let you shot at 30" in hero phase or at 24"?

I choose to shoot 24 in the hero phase

[AdamR]

It's Blood and Glory tomorrow and I still haven't picked my list yet... Not that I'm indecisive you see.

I have 2 choices ready to go.

List one is just units that I like or just finished painting really. It does fine against "regular" tourney lists but struggles against tier 1 cheese attacks.

The second list is more of a one trick pony. Has better answers to some optimised lists but will struggle against others.

Anyway - list 1

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Divine Light

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
- 2x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
10 x Skinks (70)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
 

And list 2 is

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Lord-Castellant (120)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Mindlock Staff
- Spell: Chain Lightning

Battleline
30 x Liberators (520)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 6x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows

Units
5 x Decimators (180)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
5 x Protectors (180)
- 2x Starsoul Maces

Battalions
Skyborne Slayers (190)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141
 

So, long story short "unkillable" (I wish) Stardrake vs Sword of Judgement assassin. 
Which to go for? Which is more fun to play against? I normally like tanky armies. List 1 obviously has the stardrake while list 2 has the potential of 30 immune to battleshock 2+ rr1 Libs...

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, AdamR said:

And list 2 is

Skyborne Slayers for style and bragging rights! 

[AdamR]

Slayers assemble!

 

[schwabbele]

9 hours ago, AdamR said:

Slayers assemble!

You actually motivated me so I will be building my paladins today If i find them in my pile 😬 , I was thinking on skipping the starsoul maces for the Decimators as I don’t see them effective against hordes - does this make sense? 

[Victra]

Hello, we have a discussion in our local group and we are not reaching an agreement.

The rules say that 'Once all of a unit's attacks have been resolved, add up the damage that was inflected. The player commanding the target unit must then allocate a number of wounds to the target unit equal to the damage that was inflicted.'

And the evocator's celestial lightning arc: 'In addition, after this unit has been picked to fight for the first time in a phase, after all of its attacks have been resolved, you can pick 1 enemy unit within 3" of this unit.'

The question is. When do my opponent remove the models, after the mortal wounds or before the mortal wounds?

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, Victra said:

The question is. When do my opponent remove the models, after the mortal wounds or before the mortal wounds?

After the mortals, at least this is how we play it in my group. Did they try to remove models before so your evos are out of reach? Or why the discussion.