AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Bellfree]

18 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

I played two games with a unit of 20 Sequitors today against Seraphon.  The big block is every bit as good as we thought it would be and more.  I could see a Cleansing Phalanx being quite strong.  

I ended up winning both games off of my opponent's mistakes (my heraldor did like 16 wounds turn 1 of the first game because he was camped out on a big piece of terrain).

Engine of the Gods is too strong right now in my opinion, but I think the rest of seraphon summoning feels strong but not OP.

How'd you counter battleshock? Just normal inspiring or did you do something else? What did you back up the brick with(buffs etc) I'm working on theorycrafting some lists using sequitors as both MSU and blob squads and am interested in how people are using the large units.

[Malakithe]

27 minutes ago, Bellfree said:

So you pay 130pts to do d3 mortal wounds? They really don't want people using battalions anymore, huh?

Which is funny considering they keep advertising using battalions for the glorious new command point system...

[Richelieu]

15 minutes ago, Bellfree said:

How'd you counter battleshock? Just normal inspiring or did you do something else? What did you back up the brick with(buffs etc) I'm working on theorycrafting some lists using sequitors as both MSU and blob squads and am interested in how people are using the large units.

This was actually my one big mistake in game two.  I had a command point and a LCoD available and just forgot that everyone can use their command abilities, so I lost 3 sequitors that round and two the round before that to battleshock.  In general though LCoD is a pretty solid option now that you can just wait until the last minute before using his CA.  

I didn't use a stormhost, so I had staunch defender going, but it's much harder to use now that it is wholly within 9".   Putting models where you need them while keeping the unit in range for staunch is a struggle.  

In game two I also had a single Ballista do serious work.  I scions dropped it on top of a castle in the middle of the board and it mowed down units as they were summoned.  

Cogs were amazing both games.  Geminids were good.  LAoGC has been performing better than I anticipated and the incantor auto unbind has been gold in all four games I've played with her.   

[Malakithe]

26 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

This was actually my one big mistake in game two.  I had a command point and a LCoD available and just forgot that everyone can use their command abilities, so I lost 3 sequitors that round and two the round before that to battleshock.  In general though LCoD is a pretty solid option now that you can just wait until the last minute before using his CA.  

I didn't use a stormhost, so I had staunch defender going, but it's much harder to use now that it is wholly within 9".   Putting models where you need them while keeping the unit in range for staunch is a struggle.  

In game two I also had a single Ballista do serious work.  I scions dropped it on top of a castle in the middle of the board and it mowed down units as they were summoned.  

Cogs were amazing both games.  Geminids were good.  LAoGC has been performing better than I anticipated and the incantor auto unbind has been gold in all four games I've played with her.   

What was your full list? Did the lizzy player use Kroak and his now triple pew pew?

[Bellfree]

3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

What was your full list? Did the lizzy player use Kroak and his now triple pew pew?

You don't cast spells with Kroak anymore, not when you can cast BASTILADONS!

[Malfunct Bot]

I'm not sure if anyone's noticed, but if I'm not mistaken the Azyros Lantern got buffed to work on all attacks, not just shooting.

I don't even play Stormcast, but if that's true the Azyros is going to get himself an honorary induction into the Freeguilds.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Malfunct Bot

[Aggesut]

So how does people feel about the new named heroes? It feels like it's a Hammers of Sigmar-only show, and I had hoped for a clarification of whether these can be used for any of the other Stormhosts by now (I may have just missed it). It's pretty clear from RAW that if you want a strong host you better paint them as the golden poster boys, as the other hosts offers no specific improvements over HoS. Thoughts? 

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, Bellfree said:

You don't cast spells with Kroak anymore, not when you can cast BASTILADONS!

I read that as BLASTIDONS for some reason lol 

[Carnelian]

7 hours ago, Bellfree said:

So you pay 130pts to do d3 mortal wounds? They really don't want people using battalions anymore, huh?

They are still powerful: you get a command point, an additional artefact and the one drop - which is really  really powerful even without any ability! I think they've decided to tone down the abilities so that the battalions are reasonably cheap rather than having massive game changing ones like they used to (e.g. Hammerstrike).

Whilst I will really miss Hammerstrike I think overall this is a good place for the game.

[Bellfree]

28 minutes ago, Aggesut said:

So how does people feel about the new named heroes? It feels like it's a Hammers of Sigmar-only show, and I had hoped for a clarification of whether these can be used for any of the other Stormhosts by now (I may have just missed it). It's pretty clear from RAW that if you want a strong host you better paint them as the golden poster boys, as the other hosts offers no specific improvements over HoS. Thoughts? 

They can be taken in other stormhosts, look at Lady Atia's blog for confirmation. Second, most of the named heroes are really iffy anyway. Neave is solid but works just fine without the Hammers' tactics(and is still better than the generic Zephyros), Gavriel I guess is really strong after the rewrite and Vandus is actually a consideration now but Astreai and The mage guy aren't anything special compared to the generic guys. Basically, the special characters aren't good enough to be a 'swaying' factor unless you already really like the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost rules.

 

31 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

They are still powerful: you get a command point, an additional artefact and the one drop - which is really  really powerful even without any ability! I think they've decided to tone down the abilities so that the battalions are reasonably cheap rather than having massive game changing ones like they used to (e.g. Hammerstrike).

Whilst I will really miss Hammerstrike I think overall this is a good place for the game.

Command point is 50pts, that means the battalion is 80. The artefact is largely cancelled out by the fact that you wouldn't take that combination of units with no bonuses and the number of drops is much less relevant than it used to be with all the things they've done to diminish the impact of the double turn and the fact that battalions are just much less prevalent in general than they used to be. The CP is also not as useful as it would be if you were just buying it because you have to put the cart before the horse i.e. you get this command point as part of the battalion and then have to figure out how you're going to use it, versus the other way of purchasing it for a specific use.

The problem with their strategy is that the battalions AREN'T reasonably cheap.  At 130pts, even with the CP and the relic, and the reduction in drops, they force you to take a combination of units you wouldn't normally while also forcing you to invest in characters that can utilize whatever extra relic you get in tandem with your now enormous investment into the battalion, and then you have to invest in supporting that character. Basically taking a battalion that doesn't offer any useful bonuses is just a cascade of sunk costs. In most cases it would make more sense to just take Cogs and a CP and a more reasonable unit setup.

DoK have already largely abandoned their battalions for similar reasons, and I imagine it's going to be the same for most armies unless they have AoS 1 battalions that had very small points increases, or a significantly powerful AoS 2 battalion that didn't increase too to much(LoN's Legion of Sacrement battalion is an example of this.)

All that said, the battalions aren't necessarily bad they're just sorta...nothing. There's nothing objectionable about them really, but it's hard not to find something that you'd rather have.

 

[Kadanga]

4 hours ago, Bellfree said:

They can be taken in other stormhosts, look at Lady Atia's blog for confirmation. Second, most of the named heroes are really iffy anyway. Neave is solid but works just fine without the Hammers' tactics(and is still better than the generic Zephyros), Gavriel I guess is really strong after the rewrite and Vandus is actually a consideration now but Astreai and The mage guy aren't anything special compared to the generic guys. Basically, the special characters aren't good enough to be a 'swaying' factor unless you already really like the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost rules.

 

They can be taken into your list regardless of which Stormhost you use, but they still retain their stormhost-keyword (pg 117 in the battletome - Stormhosts) and therefore will not buff your units unless they also have that same stormhost-keyword, since their buffs specifically targets Hammers of Sigmar.

So if you want Gavriel for example to give your units +3 on the charge you have one options: Use the Hammer of Sigmar Stormhost

Edit: after re-reading the allegiance rules you will have to select a Stormhost in order to get the additional keyword. If you do not select a stormhost, to get Staunch for example, you will not get the additional keyword, like Hammers of Sigmar. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by Kadanga
Redacted some parts

[Erdemo86]

I think one of the best combos is everblaze comet+staff of concentration+ out of bann range. You do average of 3 mw on every enemy unit. Combine that with 1-2 heraldors comin from the sky...omg

for 300 points you get average of 7 mw turn 1. Who needs balistas. Balistas are good but i think heraldors are better. I play tomorrow a 2k game against a nurgle army. Im building a list now.Thats where im right now:

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender  

- Staff of Concentration
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)

4 x Fulminators (480)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
20 x Sequitors (400)
5 x Sequitors (120)

Celestar Ballista (100)

Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

My Tactic:

2 Heraldors, 4 Fulminators, 20 Sequitors and Gavriel in Celestial Realm. Arkanum in 36“ Range of where i want to drop my Comet and out of Bann Range.( if possible in 5“ range of enemy caster)

Turn one

- use the Staff and Cast Comet on 5+.

- drop both Heraldors and activate there dmg ability

- drop 20 Sequitors + 4 Fulminators + Gavriel and 6“ charge. Hold the enemy where they are.( also shoot with Fulmis)

- shoot with Judis and Balista

- balista+ Judis + 5 Sequitors go for objectives.

- Arkanum ride aetherwinds to get in range to 20 Seqs and Fulmis for Staunch Defender

- castellant lantern on Arkanum first turn, and then on Fulmis or big unit of Seqs

Edited July 7, 2018 by Erdemo86

[aceytrixx]

45 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

I think one of the best combos is everblaze comet+staff of concentration+ out of bann range. You do average of 3 mw on every enemy unit. Combine that with 1-2 heraldors comin from the sky...omg

for 300 points you get average of 7 mw turn 1. Who needs balistas. Balistas are good but i think heraldors are better. I play tomorrow a 2k game against a nurgle army. Im building a list now.Thats where im right now:

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender  

- Staff of Concentration
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)

4 x Fulminators (480)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
20 x Sequitors (400)
5 x Sequitors (120)

Celestar Ballista (100)

Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

My Tactic:

2 Heraldors, 4 Fulminators, 20 Sequitors and Gavriel in Celestial Realm. Arkanum in 36“ Range of where i want to drop my Comet and out of Bann Range.( if possible in 5“ range of enemy caster)

Turn one

- use the Staff and Cast Comet. 

- drop both Heraldors and activate there dmg ability

- drop 20 Sequitors + 4 Fulminators + Gavriel and charge. Hold the enemy where they are.

- shoot with Judis and Balista

- balistas + Judis + 5 Sequitors go for objectives.

- Arkanum ride aetherwinds to get in range to 20 Seqs and Fulmis for Staunch Defender

Don't you need to be hammers for Gavriels charge ability which means you wouldn't grt staunch? 

[Erdemo86]

4 minutes ago, aceytrixx said:

Don't you need to be hammers for Gavriels charge ability which means you wouldn't grt staunch? 

If you dont take a stormhost you can name your stormhost. So you can name your Stormhost Hammers of Sigmar. And all of your units get that keyword.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Erdemo86

[aceytrixx]

1 minute ago, Erdemo86 said:

If you dont take a stormhost you can name your stormhost. So you can name your Stormhost Hammers of Sigmar.

So you can name yourself hammers of Sigmar to use the characters but you don't have to take it as a stormhost? I didn't realise you could do that 

Edited July 7, 2018 by aceytrixx

[Erdemo86]

5 minutes ago, aceytrixx said:

So you can name yourself hammers of Sigmar to use the characters but you don't have to take it as a stormhost? I didn't realise you could do that 

Yes you can, but you dont get any Stormhost rules.

[Shinzra]

Afternoon all.

New sigmar player, picked up the Stormcast book today and straight off the bat I want to know what people think regarding the Drakesworn Templar Vs Lord Celestant on star dragon, and which they prefer (Picked up the model but undecided which would be better overall).

And I think the points reduction for Vanguard Palladors make them really good, 400pts for a unit of 6 is not to shabby.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Shinzra

[MAGNUM990]

Is the new book out today(7/7/2018)?

[Gecktron]

1 minute ago, Erdemo86 said:

Yes you can, but you dont get any Stormhost rules.

Did the battletome explicit say you can do that to get special characters or is this just abusing the "name your stormhost" mechanics?

Because 40K had the same situation last year and they fixed this relativ quickly. 

[Trebuchenanigans]

Does the additional mortal wound from the Staff of Focus work with the Everblaze Comet? If so, is it then only for the casting turn, or subsequent turns also? If so, it's not massive, but could be a neat little combo to pile on additional pain.

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, Erdemo86 said:

I think one of the best combos is everblaze comet+staff of concentration+ out of bann range. You do average of 3 mw on every enemy unit. Combine that with 1-2 heraldors comin from the sky...omg

for 300 points you get average of 7 mw turn 1. Who needs balistas. Balistas are good but i think heraldors are better. I play tomorrow a 2k game against a nurgle army. Im building a list now.Thats where im right now:

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender  

- Staff of Concentration
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)

4 x Fulminators (480)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
20 x Sequitors (400)
5 x Sequitors (120)

Celestar Ballista (100)

Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

My Tactic:

2 Heraldors, 4 Fulminators, 20 Sequitors and Gavriel in Celestial Realm. Arkanum in 36“ Range of where i want to drop my Comet and out of Bann Range.( if possible in 5“ range of enemy caster)

Turn one

- use the Staff and Cast Comet on 5+.

- drop both Heraldors and activate there dmg ability

- drop 20 Sequitors + 4 Fulminators + Gavriel and 6“ charge. Hold the enemy where they are.( also shoot with Fulmis)

- shoot with Judis and Balista

- balista+ Judis + 5 Sequitors go for objectives.

- Arkanum ride aetherwinds to get in range to 20 Seqs and Fulmis for Staunch Defender

- castellant lantern on Arkanum first turn, and then on Fulmis or big unit of Seqs

You might regret the lack of wizards going up against Nurgle depending on the list

[Aggesut]

 

2 hours ago, Bellfree said:

They can be taken in other stormhosts, look at Lady Atia's blog for confirmation. Second, most of the named heroes are really iffy anyway. Neave is solid but works just fine without the Hammers' tactics(and is still better than the generic Zephyros), Gavriel I guess is really strong after the rewrite and Vandus is actually a consideration now but Astreai and The mage guy aren't anything special compared to the generic guys. Basically, the special characters aren't good enough to be a 'swaying' factor unless you already really like the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost rules.

Thanks bud, but looking at the new book I’m not seeing any generic versions of eg. Aventis Firestrike or Astreia Solbright (yet) so the thing is, as a guy who’s devoted hours to painting Celestial Vindicators, I cannot and will not field them as Hammers of Sigmar, meaning I will lose out on some real key models if no generic versions gets introduced, and that’s bugging me massively. As it is now I am almost forced to paint them in poster boy colours and be annoyed with it (and not even be able to use their CA’s), or not field any of the new named heroes, whether they are good or not, and that’s a massive downside to me.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Aggesut

[Gecktron]

2 minutes ago, Aggesut said:

 

Thanks bud, but looking at the new book I’m not seeing any generic versions of eg. Aventis Firestrike or Astreia Solbright (yet) so the thing is, as a guy who’s devoted hours to painting Celestial, I cannot and will not field them as Hammers of Sigmar, meaning I will lose out on some real key models if no generic versions gets introduced, and that’s bugging me massively. As it is now I am almost forced to paint them in poster boy colours and be annoyed with it, or not field any of theee new name heroes, whether they are good or not, and that’s a massive downside to me.

I think the Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline or Tauralon are going to be the generic versions of Astreia and Aventis. 

[Aggesut]

2 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

I think the Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline or Tauralon are going to be the generic versions of Astreia and Aventis. 

Eh, if that’s the case I’ll plug my hole

Edited July 7, 2018 by Aggesut

[Erdemo86]

Yes it works. It says once in game you can activate it and till the end of that phase you get +1 to all casting rolls. If you use a spell which causes mortal wounds you can add 1 to the dmg to every affectet unit.

@aggestus i have the book here, gecktron is right.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Erdemo86