JaffaBones Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, PJetski said: I have posted it before in this thread 2x Incantor Veritant Azyros Heraldor 3x5 Liberator 1x10 Evocators 1x9 Longstrikes 2x5 Aetherwings Geminids Quicksilver Swords Could you please elaborate your finesse use of the azyros? I am assuming you are using it to give the Raptors RR1s. I tried similar lists but my Azyros dies after one turn of giving the RR1, often times not even able to use his Lightbomb. It's come to a point I'm questioning if I want to spend 100p for 1-2 turns of RR1 max. Looks usually like this for me: I manage to screen my Raptors T1, to get my shooting in the Hero-phase in, then I drop the Azyros end of movement phase inside of 10" to whatever I want to touch with my Longstrikes. This is what I seemingly have trouble with: if it's within 10" it's oftentimes not screened and dies. If I leave it on the board he often doesn't get into 10" of priority targets. If it does (with run) he is alone and dies except against weak opponents. Edited June 7, 2019 by JaffaBones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ein Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Is anyone using the Archmage for his +1 dispel and 18" 6++ bubble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 5 hours ago, JaffaBones said: Could you please elaborate your finesse use of the azyros? I am assuming you are using it to give the Raptors RR1s. I tried similar lists but my Azyros dies after one turn of giving the RR1, often times not even able to use his Lightbomb. It's come to a point I'm questioning if I want to spend 100p for 1-2 turns of RR1 max. Looks usually like this for me: I manage to screen my Raptors T1, to get my shooting in the Hero-phase in, then I drop the Azyros end of movement phase inside of 10" to whatever I want to touch with my Longstrikes. This is what I seemingly have trouble with: if it's within 10" it's oftentimes not screened and dies. If I leave it on the board he often doesn't get into 10" of priority targets. If it does (with run) he is alone and dies except against weak opponents. Reroll hit1 is good but it's not worth throwing away your Azyros. If you are dropping him into play then you need to drop some Liberators alongside him. If your enemy is going to come to you then you don't need to keep him in reserve - put him near your frontline and unleash the lantern after they charge you. I usually give him the Soulthief artefact and he acts like a fast hero that can grab objectives and move where needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 @PJetski I found your comments around Sequitors very insightful and challenged some of my preconceptions. I’m curious as to what list you’d write if you didn’t have Longstrikes? Presumably a similar looking ballista battery? If those changes you suggested came to pass, how would you change your list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, PrimeElectrid said: @PJetski I found your comments around Sequitors very insightful and challenged some of my preconceptions. I’m curious as to what list you’d write if you didn’t have Longstrikes? Presumably a similar looking ballista battery? If those changes you suggested came to pass, how would you change your list? If I didn't have Longstrikes I would run the same list but with 20 Judicators instead. If I didn't have them I would play one of the other Stormcast lists I mentioned earlier in the thread: AT 10x Evocators + 4x Ballista CV 6x Dracolines + 4x Ballista AT 6x Fulminators With the right point drops I would play all kinds of lists... Grand Convocation + Stardrake, Hammerstrike Force + Lauchon + Cycle of the Storm, bravery bomb, Drakesworn + 8 Desolators. Stormcast are just a little too expensive right now and you have to cherrypick the most efficient units (Evocators, Ballista, double tap Longstrikes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 15 hours ago, Mark Williams said: Although I don't play the same army, I've taken some very heavy shooting lists over the past two years, and one of the worst matchups for me has been a very heavy eels deepkin army. The main reason being that I cannot shoot anything but the closest target, and they have cover and ignore rend on some of their units. Have you played against this sort of army, and if so how have you dealt with it? (Serious question as this matchup felt almost like a hard counter to me, and I had a lot of trouble seeing a way out of it.) Eels are really only scary if they get the double turn. If they're outflanking, just layer out your chaff in such a way that they only get two turns of charging Libs/Birds. The fact that you can only shoot the closest unit sucks, but usually the closest unit is Eels or a Hero, and then you just... kill them. They're really not that tanky, it's a very glass cannon army, especially if they're going heavy spear Eels over shields. If they're Soulscryer-ing in the Eels, you can also leave your squishy shooting units off the table and wait for them to come in. Either they wait until you come in, in which case their Eels are doing nothing which is a win, or they come in and you can counterposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Requizen said: Eels are really only scary if they get the double turn. If they're outflanking, just layer out your chaff in such a way that they only get two turns of charging Libs/Birds. The fact that you can only shoot the closest unit sucks, but usually the closest unit is Eels or a Hero, and then you just... kill them. They're really not that tanky, it's a very glass cannon army, especially if they're going heavy spear Eels over shields. If they're Soulscryer-ing in the Eels, you can also leave your squishy shooting units off the table and wait for them to come in. Either they wait until you come in, in which case their Eels are doing nothing which is a win, or they come in and you can counterposition. ive found skinks very useful with this in my ballista list. In a ring around the ballistas with some liberators/ sequitors, eels take some time to get thru, while the ballistas chew em up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaffaBones Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 @PJetski How do you beat the rats? I only manage to beat Skaven with my Stardrake list. My Longstrike lists gets washed over with bodies, that army doesn't seem to have (real) key units as let's say FEC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 45 minutes ago, jhamslam said: ive found skinks very useful with this in my ballista list. In a ring around the ballistas with some liberators/ sequitors, eels take some time to get thru, while the ballistas chew em up Yeah I've basically swung entirely towards Aetherwings in my Anvilstrike list, but if I wasn't running Raptors I'd probably be 2-4 units of Skinks. Just such good chaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Requizen said: Yeah I've basically swung entirely towards Aetherwings in my Anvilstrike list, but if I wasn't running Raptors I'd probably be 2-4 units of Skinks. Just such good chaff. It varies on what you play. Aetherwings are good when you take raptors cus of that amazing movement despite their 3 bird unit size. For a ballista list. Forming 2 curved screen with 2 unit of 10 skinks in front of your ballista buys you an amazing amount of time since your opponent HAS to focus them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, JaffaBones said: @PJetski How do you beat the rats? I only manage to beat Skaven with my Stardrake list. My Longstrike lists gets washed over with bodies, that army doesn't seem to have (real) key units as let's say FEC. I talked about this in detail already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaffaBones Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, PJetski said: I talked about this in detail already Thanks! I've read that already, didn't remember it being you and wanted to know your take on it since you're unbeaten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcabator15 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) I'm currently building my Stormcast army. The list I'm currently building toward is the followng: Lord Celestant on Dracoline (OWNED) Lord Castellant (OWNED) Lord Relictor (OWNED) Knight Incantor (OWNED) 20 sequitors (10 OWNED) 5 Liberators (OWNED) 5 Judicators (MISSING) 10 Evocators (5 OWNED) 2 Concussors (MISSING) 1 Celestar Ballista (OWNED) Its a 2000 HAMMERS OF SIGMAR list. Any recommendations and/or changes? Edited June 7, 2019 by tomcabator15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcabator15 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, tomcabator15 said: I'm currently building my Stormcast army. The list I'm currently building toward is the followng: Lord Celestant on Dracoline (OWNED) Lord Castellant (OWNED) Lord Relictor (OWNED) Knight Incantor (OWNED) 20 sequitors (10 OWNED) 5 Liberators (OWNED) 5 Judicators (MISSING) 10 Evocators (5 OWNED) 2 Concussors (MISSING) 1 Celestar Ballista (OWNED) Its a 2000 HAMMERS OF SIGMAR list. Any recommendations and/or changes? Sorry its Lord Arcanum on Dracoline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, tomcabator15 said: Sorry its Lord Arcanum on Dracoline Arcanum on Drac is only worth it if youre running 6 evocators on dracolines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 13 hours ago, JaffaBones said: Could you please elaborate your finesse use of the azyros? I am assuming you are using it to give the Raptors RR1s. I tried similar lists but my Azyros dies after one turn of giving the RR1, often times not even able to use his Lightbomb. It's come to a point I'm questioning if I want to spend 100p for 1-2 turns of RR1 max. Looks usually like this for me: I manage to screen my Raptors T1, to get my shooting in the Hero-phase in, then I drop the Azyros end of movement phase inside of 10" to whatever I want to touch with my Longstrikes. This is what I seemingly have trouble with: if it's within 10" it's oftentimes not screened and dies. If I leave it on the board he often doesn't get into 10" of priority targets. If it does (with run) he is alone and dies except against weak opponents. For what it’s worth this is my experience using the azyros as well. I managed to save him in a tournament recently by buffering him on both sides with 2 units of aetherwings and a unit of hurricane raptors behind. I managed to keep the azyros in play for the entire game and got 2 really good turns out of him and the lantern. However, there’s a certain irony in needing 240 additional points of units to keep a 100 pt character alive, but I digress.... I suspect if others are keeping him alive longer, they simply have more interesting or more important targets on the table for their opponents to worry about. All my opponents prioritise the azyros no matter where I put him. He’s basically a one turn wonder in my list. But I still think he’s one of our better heroes, and synergises great with our units. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaffaBones Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 28 minutes ago, Mark Williams said: For what it’s worth this is my experience using the azyros as well. I managed to save him in a tournament recently by buffering him on both sides with 2 units of aetherwings and a unit of hurricane raptors behind. I managed to keep the azyros in play for the entire game and got 2 really good turns out of him and the lantern. However, there’s a certain irony in needing 240 additional points of units to keep a 100 pt character alive, but I digress.... I suspect if others are keeping him alive longer, they simply have more interesting or more important targets on the table for their opponents to worry about. All my opponents prioritise the azyros no matter where I put him. He’s basically a one turn wonder in my list. But I still think he’s one of our better heroes, and synergises great with our units. This is more in line with my experience. Once the opponent realizes that the Azyros basically gives the Longstrikes a re-roll to hit, it becomes the most prioritized hero in the army to wipe off. How do you deal with that, Mark? I'll play this tournament (https://www.tabletoptournaments.net/t3_tournament_list.php?tid=24547) on Sunday (12 dudes/ 3 games) I'll bring an unorthodox Stardrake list though, which does not have clear win condition, but won't get dominated by anything in my opinion. My win rate in tournaments so far with Stormcast is exactly 80% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 It is foolish to focus on killing the azyros, he is definitely the least important unit in my list. Any damage directed at him is damage that could have gone into the Veritant, Longstrikes, Aetherwings, or Evocators. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostfire Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 How do you guys deal with 30 hearth guard berserkers that are so killy and so tough that you can’t eliminate them with Evocators in an Anvil list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucur Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I had a series of games against a lords of the lodge list with 20 last weekend and the solution is to ignore them, dismantle their hero support and go for objectives. Worked 2 out of 3 times for me, the loss was battle for the pass, where he could blob too much for me to keep distance and still score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Any idea for using Evocator with out Gav Bomb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostfire Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, armisael said: Any idea for using Evocator with out Gav Bomb? Actually Evos just fix in most list for they are obviously solid choice. In an anvil list, they wipe out enemy who comes close, and even get to get CA to attack in hero phase. In a Staunch Defender list or a Stardrake list, they are powerful melee support and valuable to unbind spell and dispell some endless. They are so good that I almost auto-include them every list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostfire Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Lucur said: the solution is to ignore them The problem is when they are Vorstag or the prayer goes off, they get to run and charge, making it hard to ignore them. Maybe I should snipe off his general and the priest to slow them down a little, or use the shackles. Thx for your experience anyway! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Kill all the heroes while tying down the Berzerkers with aetherwings on a flank, then the Berzerkers can die easily. The Fyreslayer list you actually need to look out for is shooting focused Lofnir 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostfire Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 How’s that? I can’t see our army heavy on monsters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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