AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[stus67]

17 minutes ago, That Guy said:

This is maybe a silly question, but for the competitive scene and even just store gaming and the everchanging meta, how do you guys do it with painting, once it comes to specific stormhosts....? I for example am a Hammers of Sigmar collector and paint my miniatures accordingly. Now say i would want to try Anvils, how would you go about it? Start an entire new force? 

You would just use the rules from the sotrmhost you want. My guys are painted as Anvils, and i like using the rules for them, but sometimes I run them as Hammers or Astral

[Nos]

25 minutes ago, That Guy said:

This is maybe a silly question, but for the competitive scene and even just store gaming and the everchanging meta, how do you guys do it with painting, once it comes to specific stormhosts....? I for example am a Hammers of Sigmar collector and paint my miniatures accordingly. Now say i would want to try Anvils, how would you go about it? Start an entire new force? 

There’s nothing in any rules for any faction in AOS that specify how they have to be painted in order to use them. They’re your models, you can paint them however you like without being penalised as to how you can play with them! 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Nos

[Heaven_lord]

Hi there, 

I heard about anvilstrike but do not know so much about this archetype..

Here is my list, what do you think about it for the competitive scene?

Anvils of heldenhammer

1x Knight Incantor
1x Lord Relictor (translocation) 
1x Knight Azyros 

1x Lord Castellant

1x knight Heraldor

10x evocators

9x Raptors with Longstrikes 
5x Judicators 
5x Judicators 
5x Liberators 
3x Aetherwings 

+1 CP

Thank you !

Edited March 12, 2019 by Heaven_lord

[HammerOfSigmar]

27 minutes ago, Heaven_lord said:

Hi there, 

I heard about anvilstrike but do not know so much about this archetype..

Here is my list, what do you think about it for the competitive scene?

Anvils of heldenhammer

1x Knight Incantor
1x Lord Relictor (translocation) 
1x Knight Azyros 

1x Lord Castellant

1x knight Heraldor

10x evocators

9x Raptors with Longstrikes 
5x Judicators 
5x Judicators 
5x Liberators 
3x Aetherwings 

+1 CP

Thank you !

Well, your list is very fragile. All the units are good at making damage but poor at defending themselves when getting charged by enemy units(except the small unit of liberator).  Your list has a ton of drops so you will probably go second in the first battle round. Hence, do you have some idea of how you will keep your units alive until second battle round?

[That Guy]

3 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

And if the core is solid, what to choose for the points left?

Thank you !

Pretty solid list! It's a bit light on bodies and everything depends on your longstrikes and evocators doing well. since the longstrikes are this important in this list, I think going with the Lord-Aquilor is the way to go. with the points left you can either add another unit of aetherwings and screen the raptors, or you drop the aetherwings in a whole and take the Everblaze Comet endless spell. 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Man of Mystery
Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Windrunner
Lord-Castellant  (100)
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Soulthief
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- Grandhammer
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
9 x Longstrike Vanguard-Raptors (540)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra CP: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113

EDIT: By default it's better to have Speed of Lightning always on the Evocators, making the them and all around them re-roll charges.

Edited March 12, 2019 by That Guy

[That Guy]

4 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Hence, do you have some idea of how you will keep your units alive until second battle round?

The Celestial Realm... and with the Aquilor he can keep rushing all over the field and Command ability them away out of danger, this list is a kiting list and hard to play. I don't think it automatically loses. You need to have your target priorization on point though. Like you said, the list is fragile, it will crumble if not executed well. Perhaps dropping the Evocators down to 5 and add in more Sequitors/Liberators could help. But... Evocators in 10's are very very solid.

[Starfyre]

19 hours ago, Nos said:

Other thought is why the 3 Dracolines? 6 with a LA on a Dracoline with the CA is a real blender, but 3 is frequently underwhelming. You also have to consider that a big part of Evocators is the MW output and they only produce 6. Also with two separate units of Evocators you’re going to have to survive a WE round of combat against one of them meaning you’re likely to lose some before they attack and electrocute.

With all that in mind: I’d go 10 Evocators for the 500 points you currently have allotted. With Sureheart to get the charge in you’ve got however many attacks you can get from pile-ins plus a guaranteed 20 MW rolls before any of them get attacked. That’s probably going to finish most of the Aelves off if not all of them.  They’re going to be -1 to hit in the turn they drop so even if you don’t finish them all off you shouldn’t lose many,

With the 100 points saved you could take an Azyros to drop alongside for re-rolling ones, and then get some free MW’s in the next hero phase with his light.

Or if you *really* want to roll the dice on the cauldron, take a Venator, and use the Star Fated Arrow on it. No room for a luck stone if you’re taking Hanmers so it’s a total gamble but it could really cripple the cauldron and if not you can plink away at stuff otherwise.

Short answer is I'm experimenting with stuff I haven't used in the past.  Traditionally mine is a very defensive list, but it was all bought before Soul Wars and I've not used the Sacrosanct stuff. Some gamer friends of mine have set up a mini league between the four of us to get to know our armies better, with a view of maybe doing Throne of Skulls at the end of the month. So we're trying different 1000 point lists out against each other. I lost my first game against Kharadron by a single victory point on the last turn, so I'm keen to improve on that, hence posting.

Agreed, 6 Dracolines with an LA would be ideal but not feasible for this points size. This morning I actually decided to try the list you suggested and see how it goes, but you may well be right about the 10 evocators because of the considerable amount of mortal wounds they could do. I'll consider experimenting with the Dracolines another time. I've yet to have had any luck with the Azyros yet, but first time for everything.

Thanks for offering your thoughts.

[HammerOfSigmar]

31 minutes ago, That Guy said:

The Celestial Realm... and with the Aquilor he can keep rushing all over the field and Command ability them away out of danger, this list is a kiting list and hard to play. I don't think it automatically loses. You need to have your target priorization on point though. Like you said, the list is fragile, it will crumble if not executed well. Perhaps dropping the Evocators down to 5 and add in more Sequitors/Liberators could help. But... Evocators in 10's are very very solid.

I don't remember what celestial realm is, could you explain further?

[That Guy]

17 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

I don't remember what celestial realm is, could you explain further?

It's 1 of the Stormcast Eternals Battle Traits. For every unit on the battlefield you can keep a unit in reserves and deepstrike them 9" away from enemy units on the end of any of your movement phases. This can keep your crucial units protected until you strike them in. It's also good to do when you plan a turn one alpha strike because of the second Battle Trait Shock and Awe, which gives you during YOUR turn in which you strike a -1 to hit debuff for the enemy that fights back in your turn. Which means that retaliation is minimal during that first turn. In the list that I posted,  He could for example, field both Aetherwing units, the liberators and both judicator units and the Lord-Aquilor. That's 6 units fielded. Than he can keep the Castellant, Incantor, Azyros, Evocators and Raptors in the celestial realm. The only thing that sucks, is that the castellant can't immidiately use his lantern if you strike him, because you strike him at the end of the movement phase, while his lantern activates in the hero phase. A Relictor with translocation can solve this, but.. it could fail, and I think having this security for the Raptors with the Aquilor.

Edited March 12, 2019 by That Guy

[stus67]

I'm pretty interested in the Anvilstrike lists, but I don't have any longstrikes. Can this list work with the ballistae instead?

[Lucur]

The Longstrikes make way better use of the anvils CA and have the ability to get teleported by a Lord Aquillor. If you want to play Ballistae other stormhosts offer more, just bring an Ordinator and 4 Ballistae.

[That Guy]

9 minutes ago, Lucur said:

The Longstrikes make way better use of the anvils CA and have the ability to get teleported by a Lord Aquillor.

This, BUT there's a variation in which you use the Anvils CA for an alpha strike with Sequitors/Evocators and have a lord-ordinator with 3 ballista's as backup. Same concept except you transfer the CA to close combat.

[Heaven_lord]

1 hour ago, That Guy said:

Pretty solid list! It's a bit light on bodies and everything depends on your longstrikes and evocators doing well. since the longstrikes are this important in this list, I think going with the Lord-Aquilor is the way to go. with the points left you can either add another unit of aetherwings and screen the raptors, or you drop the aetherwings in a whole and take the Everblaze Comet endless spell. 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Man of Mystery
Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Windrunner
Lord-Castellant  (100)
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Soulthief
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- Grandhammer
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
9 x Longstrike Vanguard-Raptors (540)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra CP: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113

Hey That Guy,

Thanks a lot for all this usefull stuff! I really like the list ! I just nerf now to buy extra Aetherwings or an Everblaze comet, which one seems the best suited for take all comers?

Thanks again

 

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Starfyre said:

Short answer is I'm experimenting with stuff I haven't used in the past.  Traditionally mine is a very defensive list, but it was all bought before Soul Wars and I've not used the Sacrosanct stuff. Some gamer friends of mine have set up a mini league between the four of us to get to know our armies better, with a view of maybe doing Throne of Skulls at the end of the month. So we're trying different 1000 point lists out against each other. I lost my first game against Kharadron by a single victory point on the last turn, so I'm keen to improve on that, hence posting.

Agreed, 6 Dracolines with an LA would be ideal but not feasible for this points size. This morning I actually decided to try the list you suggested and see how it goes, but you may well be right about the 10 evocators because of the considerable amount of mortal wounds they could do. I'll consider experimenting with the Dracolines another time. I've yet to have had any luck with the Azyros yet, but first time for everything.

Thanks for offering your thoughts.

Azyros works really well when dropped in because whatever you’re charging/shooting at is probably going to be 9” away.  But even then it’s only him who needs to be 10” away so you can drop him in and anything that shoots or charges anything within 10” re-rolls one’s to hit, and the buff is not phase dependent so it dosent matter that he drops after the hero phase. 

If you have a big infantry unit or a battery of Ballistae attacking that unit it tends to be pretty emphatic. If you’re going with Sureheart the charge bonus is to everyone within 12” of him so the Azyros will get in if you want him to.

The Light is good against big clumps of units. Very good if they’re chaos. But it’s a bonus is all. 

[stus67]

48 minutes ago, That Guy said:

This, BUT there's a variation in which you use the Anvils CA for an alpha strike with Sequitors/Evocators and have a lord-ordinator with 3 ballista's as backup. Same concept except you transfer the CA to close combat.

This is more along the lines of what I'm thinking of. The ballista's provide comparable damage from range that the longstrikes without the CA ability do, but then just use the CA on a unit of Evocators or a big block of Sequitors instead.

[That Guy]

55 minutes ago, Heaven_lord said:

which one seems the best suited for take all comers?

With the Aetherwings you will have more drops, but also more units to put in the celestial realm, their synergy with raptors makes them great closeby objective holders, and with closeby I mean around 30" away. The moment your raptors start to be in danger you can bring them wholly within 18" of them and use their Watchful Guardians ability to move a 2d6" in your opponents charge phase. this way you can move them infront of your raptors block of the path towards them. Next turn you'll swoop in with your aquilor riding the Winds Aetheric, having the Windrunner mount trait means you roll 7D6" movement with the Aquilor, you rush to the Raptors and activate your command ability at the end of your movement phase. Although like I said you need to know what you are doing, because by doing this you use your Command Point which you would normally use to double shoot. Alternatively you can drop the second Aetherwing unit after all and have the 50p for an extra CP after all as a backup for this emergency Swoop in and out move.  The single aetherwing would have a harder time to screen in that case, if at all. This list is rather hard to nail down to what is perfect. You see you can free up 100P by dropping 2 aetherwings or the lord castellant and have 2 extra CP with which you could both make the Evocators and Raptors act twice in 1 turn. Evocators can attack twice, Raptors can shoot twice. all while you have your CP that you gain from your turn to keep for a swoop in. Instead you could choose to drop 1 aetherwing unit and have just 1 extra CP as either a back up swoop in or to do the twice attack trick for both the evocators and raptors 1 turn. Alternatively you can drop the Lord- Aquilor after all and go for the Lord-Relictor. Keeping him near the the Raptors for example for a translocation for them. that will be a 1 time heroic sacrifice, because your relictor will be left to the dogs, unless you have backup for him too. The Comet can severely mess with a magic heavy army and force them to move out of their deployment zone, than you can catch them with your evocators. Let me remind you about the Stormcast Eternals FAQ though. Anvils is FAQ'ed so that you can only use the CA once on a unique unit, but using it on both the evocators and raptors in a single turn, is definetely possible

Edited March 12, 2019 by That Guy

[PJetski]

32 minutes ago, stus67 said:

This is more along the lines of what I'm thinking of. The ballista's provide comparable damage from range that the longstrikes without the CA ability do, but then just use the CA on a unit of Evocators or a big block of Sequitors instead.

What makes Longstrikes so good with Anvils is their range. Evocators will do more damage with the command point, but its limited to enemies in their range. Longstrikes can double tap every turn and against priority targets because of their long range.

9 LS + 10 Evo works so well because one of those units by itself is enough to cripple most armies. The Longstrikes force the enemy to come to you because you have the superior shooting power, then the Evocators mop them up.

Ballistas dont have the same range, power, or reliability.

Edited March 12, 2019 by PJetski

[HammerOfSigmar]

2 hours ago, That Guy said:

It's 1 of the Stormcast Eternals Battle Traits. For every unit on the battlefield you can keep a unit in reserves and deepstrike them 9" away from enemy units on the end of any of your movement phases. This can keep your crucial units protected until you strike them in. It's also good to do when you plan a turn one alpha strike because of the second Battle Trait Shock and Awe, which gives you during YOUR turn in which you strike a -1 to hit debuff for the enemy that fights back in your turn. Which means that retaliation is minimal during that first turn. In the list that I posted,  He could for example, field both Aetherwing units, the liberators and both judicator units and the Lord-Aquilor. That's 6 units fielded. Than he can keep the Castellant, Incantor, Azyros, Evocators and Raptors in the celestial realm. The only thing that sucks, is that the castellant can't immidiately use his lantern if you strike him, because you strike him at the end of the movement phase, while his lantern activates in the hero phase. A Relictor with translocation can solve this, but.. it could fail, and I think having this security for the Raptors with the Aquilor.

Oh,  I know such ability but forget this is how it is called... I just usually call it DS

[stus67]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

What makes Longstrikes so good with Anvils is their range. Evocators will do more damage with the command point, but its limited to enemies in their range. Longstrikes can double tap every turn and against priority targets because of their long range.

9 LS + 10 Evo works so well because one of those units by itself is enough to cripple most armies. The Longstrikes force the enemy to come to you because you have the superior shooting power, then the Evocators mop them up.

Ballistas dont have the same range, power, or reliability.

The single shot is 36" so it actually has longer range, but I do agree that they don't have the same reliability. On average 3 of them single shooting will be around 10 to 12 shots, with an Ordinator they're hitting on 2s which isn't bad and still a decent ranged threat. Worst case scenario though you get off 3 shots and they don't wound anything, but they're also a lot cheaper than 9 longstrikes.

[HammerOfSigmar]

19 minutes ago, stus67 said:

The single shot is 36" so it actually has longer range, but I do agree that they don't have the same reliability. On average 3 of them single shooting will be around 10 to 12 shots, with an Ordinator they're hitting on 2s which isn't bad and still a decent ranged threat. Worst case scenario though you get off 3 shots and they don't wound anything, but they're also a lot cheaper than 9 longstrikes.

Longstrike's 2+ to hit and 6 to do MW is crucial when you want to kill some heros.

[That Guy]

28 minutes ago, stus67 said:

but they're also a lot cheaper than 9 longstrikes.

I mean... let's not forget the -2 rend on the long strikes and the 2 mortals that you hit when you roll that unmodified 6. Not to mention just the straight up 2 damage. But yes, 240p  more expensive than 9 longstrikes, that is for 3, for 4  it's 140P cheaper. But let's not forget that if you take the longstrikes, you will enable them with the anvil ability. And this makes them explosive more effective than the ballista's. Let's just face it here. When you include ballista's the anvil CA, will always be focused on a close combat unit. The ballista's are a backup unit, a better one than long strikes. When you include long strikes, you write your list to anvil CA those and use your melee as a shield for them, be it through mobility or just screening. 2 different lists. The one from above here includes evocators and longstrikes. You are actually able to enable both CC and the Longstrikes in this one. So I almost feel like dropping the Aetherwings by 1 unit or even in a whole for the 1950 or 1900p. Might enable the list to have 1 enormously explosive turn, were the longstrikes shoot twice and the evocators fight twice. Almost like using Gordrakk's CA in a destruction list. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by That Guy

[Heaven_lord]

6 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I mean... let's not forget the -2 rend on the long strikes and the 2 mortals that you hit when you roll that unmodified 6. Not to mention just the straight up 2 damage. But yes, 240p  more expensive than 9 longstrikes, that is for 3, for 4  it's 140P cheaper. But let's not forget that if you take the longstrikes, you will enable them with the anvil ability. And this makes them explosive more effective than the ballista's. Let's just face it here. When you include ballista's the anvil CA, will always be focused on a close combat unit. The ballista's are a backup unit, a better one than long strikes. When you include long strikes, you write your list to anvil CA those and use your melee as a shield for them, be it through mobility or just screening. 2 different lists. The one from above here includes evocators and longstrikes. You are actually able to enable both CC and the Longstrikes in this one. So I almost feel like dropping the Aetherwings by 1 unit or even in a whole for the 1950 or 1900p. Might enable the list to have 1 enormously explosive turn, were the longstrikes shoot twice and the evocators fight twice. Almost like using Gordrakk's CA in a destruction list. 

I like this potential explosiveness of the list ! Is the Lord Castellant mandatory? Thinking of replacing it by 2 Aetherwings units and letting 100 free points or 1 aetherwing and Everblaze comet +50 free points.

[Requizen]

26 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Longstrike's 2+ to hit and 6 to do MW is crucial when you want to kill some heros.

This. 

Ballista are extremely efficient at shooting all types of units. Longstrikes blow them out of the water when it comes to dropping Heroes.

The main power of the Anvilstrike list is just headshotting every important Hero off the table on Turn 1 or 2 and then mopping up. You're never tabling the opponent from a range - Longstrikes are fairly terrible at clearing out units, but once you kill the Heroes it doesn't really matter because most armies fall apart.

It's armies with multiple units that function well independent of Heroes that Longstrikes worries about. 

[Requizen]

Also, looking at the Khorne changes, it just solidifies the future of Stormcast as a shooting heavy army imo. Between Gristlegore, Bloodthirsters, and VLoZDs, ranged is going to be our ticket in the coming days.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Requizen

[That Guy]

 

22 minutes ago, Heaven_lord said:

Is the Lord Castellant mandatory? Thinking of replacing it by 2 Aetherwings units and letting 100 free points or 1 aetherwing and Everblaze comet +50 free points.

Not mandatory, he will be valuable on your turn 2, in which he can lantern the evocators to a 3+ save with heals on a 7+. This will be a 3+ re-roll 1 save vs shooting. But he is indeed interchangeable if you don't feel you need the added defense. Your choice to replace him can be a good one. Do what you prefer. I also changed the list myself. Currently this is my final Fabrication: 

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Man of Mystery
Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Windrunner
Lord-Castellant  (100)
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Soulthief
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Lore of Invigoration: Azyrite Halo

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- Grandhammer
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
9 x Longstrike Vanguard-Raptors (540)

Total: 1900 / 2000
Extra CP: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

Explanation:
Fielding the battleline units. Also fielding the incantor with the Raptors. That's 5 units fielded. Keeping the Aquilor, Castellant, Azyros and evocators in the air. The Incantor can trigger the Raptors shooting twice ability in the first turn and can protect the raptors with the spells. If you face an alpha strike list you can ward yourself with the azyrite halo and be ready to go all out with the Spirit flasks putting the battlelines in harms way in case of an extreme case. Later on the Azyrite Halo might actually be of use close towards evocators. When you have the chance you drop down the evocators in place, castellant, azyros and aquillor. Turn 3 and 4 is when you want to strike ultra hard with this list. Casting Speed of Lightning on the evocators to engage a charge, boosting the evocators with the lantern in turn 2  and trying to get the charge off, again you shoot twice with your raptors. Either your raptors are now in danger and you need to swoop in and use an extra CP to pick them up and relocate them with the aquilor. But you still get to shoot twice. Now in turn 3 is where you can start being explosive. You probably still have at least 1 extra CP and your raptors should be save now either by having them re-located or by just being defensive enough. Now you can use the Anvil Command ability twice. Once for the evocators and once for the raptors. If you had 2 CP left, you could do the same in turn 4. If not you are back to just the evocators or just the raptors.