AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[Lillen]

Hi, this might seem like a stupid question but me and a friend is discussing how to interpret the rules for the gloomtide shipwreck. The question is quite simple, can I place two full ships in a regular matched play or just either one full ship or two halves. I bought an Idoneth army on impulse today and now I'm contemplating getting an other one as well since if I can have two I want to paint them at the same time.

I've tried finding an exact answer and failed so if the answer is anywhere already on this forum I apologize for this post. 

Sincerely, Magnus

[Drofnum]

You can do 2 full ships, 2 half's of a ship or a full ship and a half ship.  You basically get to place 2 terrain pieces total, the configuration of them is up to you.

[Lillen]

Thanks for that speedy reply. That is what I thought as well.  Then I will order one more. They are such excellent models.

 

Thanks again, Magnus

[Curzex]

On 8/6/2018 at 3:50 PM, annarborhawk said:

very interested to see how deepstriking thralls works for you as opposed to using them as screens. I'm hoping for a follow-up on how it went.....

Cronomatic coggs and soulscryer combo IS +5 to charge.

[Reuben Parker]

On 8/6/2018 at 9:50 AM, annarborhawk said:

very interested to see how deepstriking thralls works for you as opposed to using them as screens. I'm hoping for a follow-up on how it went.....

To be fair I personally think thralls make terrible screens. Points wounds are worse and lower save. They are IDK glass cannons so either second rank till high tide or outflank seems the right way. There was a discussion a page or two back where someone made the case that eternal guard allied in are our best screens. Having looked at some theory lists I agree with the view. 

[Drofnum]

39 minutes ago, Curzex said:

Cronomatic coggs and soulscryer combo IS +5 to charge.

You get rerolls to charge on eels, on Thralls it may be worth it but with eels you never really fail with +3.

[wanderingrogue]

you can also stack scryer buffs

[Unter]

12 hours ago, LegioX217 said:

Right now I'm planning out my 2k list as I build up my initial buy and finishing painting some units. I'm trying to include most models from the range, and I'm feeling like the Leviadon completes the feel and uniqueness of the army more than the Eidolon, and I was having trouble fitting both, so I got something like this.

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin (enclave tbd)

 

LEADERS Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280) - General

Isharann Tidecaster (100) - Lore of the Deeps : Arcane Corrasion (artifact tbd)

Isharann Soulscryer (100) (artifact tbd)

UNITS

1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)

3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)

10 x Namarti Reavers (140)

10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

BEHEMOTHS

Akhelian Leviadon (380)

BATTALIONS

Akhelian Corps (100)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 110 LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 0/2 ALLIES: 0/400

I get to include the awesome shark model with the excuse that its' for the battalion, and I get every model in the range besides the Eidolon, soulrender and Lotann, and I still have a punchy eel unit and a tanky one to screen/soak, with some bodies on the ground to claim objectives or blend some infantry. Magic is light but still there, and I even got to squeeze a soulscryer in for fun.

Any suggestions or tweaks ? Only thing I could think of changing is switching the eel ratios, but its hard with the odd point values.

Also which enclave should I run? I'm painting them as Ionrach but will use whatever. Dhom-hain for re-roll or maybe Nautilar ?

Depends if you are thinking super competitive or friendly

if competitive, drop the Reavers, Allopex and Akhelian Corps, bring more Morsarr.

Fuethan and Dhomhain seem to be the best for most people, don't really see Nautilar working

[Rachmani]

I as of now don‘t have any Idoneth Players in my group (or, more precisely I have, but they wanna paint first) & am wondering how the „real world difference“ between the Morrsarr & the Ishlaen is. 

Real world difference as in „what units you can come across can either defeat or soak“. 

The math is relatively clear, but how it translates into actual game experience is a different story, so that‘s why I‘m asking. ?

[Curzex]

I have a question. In my group they think that morsguard eels Mortales wound ability only work vs 1 enemy unit per 3+ ( so cant select the same unit for all mortal wounds) they based on faq that said that you cant pick same unit for a effect that say pick x units.

Is.this correct?

Pd: soz for my english

[Kitty]

17 hours ago, LegioX217 said:

Also which enclave should I run? I'm painting them as Ionrach but will use whatever. Dhom-hain for re-roll or maybe Nautilar ?

I like Akhelian Corps and it's theme, for Akhelians I find Fuethan to be the best option, with Ionrach being useful only when allying. Dhom-hain and Nautilar I find less effective than Fuethan but can be complimentary to your play style. I would test and see what works best for you.

[Drofnum]

1 hour ago, Curzex said:

I have a question. In my group they think that morsguard eels Mortales wound ability only work vs 1 enemy unit per 3+ ( so cant select the same unit for all mortal wounds) they based on faq that said that you cant pick same unit for a effect that say pick x units.

Is.this correct?

Pd: soz for my english

It doesnt say pick X units.  It says pick A unit, their argument would only hold up if it says for each 3+ pick 2( or 3 or 4 or X) units.

 

Edit:  Also what FAQ are they referring to? 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Drofnum

[Amradiel]

Aspect of the sea or Aspect of the storm? What do you people use? 

[Curzex]

Just finished the Game VS Seraphon.

10-6 on the orb mision

For me was totally fail.

Only Aspect of sea survives.

Seraphon go kroak-nado and 3 engine of gods.

My plan fail but i win by objetives thx to AoS count as 20 models ok that mision.

Turtle tanks 40 saurus.

Shark does absolutly nothing, volturnos die by d6 mortals if engine ( is so over power)

[Reuben Parker]

I am moving away from the proxy stage and going into Deepkin now as my next army. I know the norm is mass eel Fuethean or Dom but that doesn't really interest me as I want to play the "fun" models but still try to have a good list.

It seems Nautilar is seen as being "bad" but I still want to see if it can work in a beta strike list helping you reach high tide.

Main question I had was I am thinking of the following and couldn't fit in the turtle as well, I then realized I could drop battalion and 20 thralls, left over 20 points and it can fit but does it improve or make the list worse? Bearing in mind the plan for the list is to delay and play defensively then try to win on high tide.

Volturnos

Scryer - Brooch of CP farm

Caster 

Aspect Storm - Cloud of Midnight

30 Thrall

3 Shield Eel

6 Spear Eel

10/10 Eternal Guard 

Royal Council

Losing the battalion does hurt the beta strike as you will have on average 2-3 less CP on high tide. On the flip side turtle can help you get to high tide maybe its something I will need to play and test out a few times.

[Azamar]

I took my Idoneth out for a 1500 point test drive earlier this week- opinions on the list are always welcome

 

Akhelian king

Born from agony

Armour of the cythai

 

Tidecaster

Steed of tides

 

Eidolon aspect of the sea

Abyssal darkness

 

Battleline:

3 ishlaen guard

3 ishlaen guard

3 morrsarr guard

 

1 allopex

 

Allies: 

Darkling covens sorceress 

 

Endless spells:

Quicksilver swords 

Malevolent maelstrom 

 

I was up against my friend’s experimental LON army, with a vampire on zombie dragon and two units of blood knights, back up by more vampires, chainrasps and lots of undead puppies, for a border war.

 

Hard to tell how effective the idoneth were- I know it’s not the done thing to blame dice but my friend really could this time- the zombie dragon’s attempt to break through ended up with just one dead eel, and the dragon taking something like 6-7 wounds, thanks to great saves for me and terrible ones for him. That pretty much continued for the rest of the game, leading to a deepkin victory. 

 

Even so, the army feels strong- they’re individually tough (for the most part) and their amazing mobility meant I could keep zipping everything around to where it was needed, picking most of the fights and keeping the softer targets safe from harm (the morrsarr survived until the final turn, when the zombie dragon finally worked out how to hit something, and the squishy wizards were safely out of harms way all game) 

 

I can see why most might drop the allopex for more eels, although mine was a champ in this game, holding an objective and using its size to block resurrected units from reclaiming it. 

 

Undecided on the eidolon so far- he failed more spells than he cast so I don’t think I got the best of him, but he was Tanky as hell in cover, and with healing and his bravery buff was an excellent anchor for the rest of the army- probably saved me a few costly battleshock losses. The aspect of storm might be better for damage, but the sea’s +3 bravery buff is great against death armies. 

 

 

[Tommy]

On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 4:15 PM, Shinzra said:

Anyone have any tips on the Akhelian eel bases and best way to build them, they look to be annoying to build.

I used the older straight GW flying stems with the pegs - clipped off the nubs underneath the eels and drilled a hole there instead. Worked pretty well (especially as the shattered dominion bases I was using have holes underneath you can also drill though and stick the peg into, but you can do it with any base really).

[Tommy]

13 minutes ago, Azamar said:

 

Lovely-looking models!

[Rachmani]

On 8/8/2018 at 9:58 PM, Amradiel said:

Aspect of the sea or Aspect of the storm? What do you people use? 

Sea looks like it fits better in most cases. 
Storm imo needs to be a 1 spell caster in order to compete.

[DantePQ]

I don't think so Storm would be broken with spellcasting ability, I've recently played some games with Aspect of the Storm and it performs a lot - you can give him ignroing rend cloak from reclis and he is quite reliable source of damage with his ability to retreat and charge with 12'' fly move and 4A and 3+ (with re-rolls of 1) and 2+ (with re-rolls of 1) and -2 rend Damage 3 + few other attacks. He is hard to master but I think along with Tides and his awesome ability he's worth his point. 

On the other hand Aspect of the Sea is quite useless, as 2-3 Tidecasters will get the job done with magic almost as well, and they are easier to hide, the only think that Aspect of the Sea does well is casting but I wouldn't pay 240 points for re-roll of 1 casting roll. 

In nutshell you can field units that will fill Asepct of the Sea role quite easily, Aspect of the Storm is quite unique - as sure you got Morssar but they can be locked up in combat and their damage output is gone, Aspect of the Storm thanks to his ability and not losing any damage output when wounded is different animal (especially with ingoring rend item.)

[Drofnum]

AoSea is far from useless, he will do nearly the same damage output as the Storm and gets his 2 spells.  ALso has far far more survivability than the Storm alone or 2 Tidecasters.  If you're expecting Arkhan you will be disappointed but he is not the useless piece you make him out to be.

[DantePQ]

He is nowhere near Aspect of the Storm damage as Aspect of the Storm damage is quite reliable Aspect of the Sea isn't. Just look at the math. 

How so Aspect of the Sea has better survivability? They have same stats and both can heal every turn but Aspect of the Storm heals without giving up anything. 

Primary job of Aspect of the Sea is to cast spells and he is good at it but with two spells and ability to re roll one casting roll he is average at best for his point cost. In majority of cases two Tidecaster with for example Balewind will do the same but for 200 points less. 

As I said Aspect of the Storm role is quite unique, Aspect of the Sea not so much as you can take two Tidecaster and you won't miss almost anything. 

[Drofnum]

On average Storm will do 8 wounds against a 4+ save, Sea will do about 5.5.  Its much closer than you think.

[Drofnum]

His primary role in your eyes is spellcasting.  That isnt how I play him and honestly if you only play him like that its a waste, he is a decent beat stick with 2 spells, 12 wounds and a 3+ save that he can reliably get to 2+ rerolling.  Sure if you use him simply as a caster he will not make his points back, but if you do that you arent using him to his full potential.

Every time i've taken AoStorm i've been disappointed with him cause the AoSea can do enough damage that I dont miss the Storm and his signature spell is amazing if you use him aggressively and can hit 3+ targets with it. I get that you prefer Storm but you're doing a disservice to everyone reading this by acting like he has no place in lists, your lists are not always the only best lists, which is what you seem to say whenever you come in to this thread.

 

Quote

How so Aspect of the Sea has better survivability? They have same stats and both can heal every turn but Aspect of the Storm heals without giving up anything. 

He can give himself abyssal darkness(Plus all around him get it) Mystic shield or Tsunami enemies around him. Its very rare that the Sea cant heal himself if needed, I rarely use his reroll. To get the same survivability from Storm you need supporting pieces, like another tidecaster or two.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Drofnum

[Reuben Parker]

I think they’re both good. I just used storm and he was amazing, he also is the best hero to take cloud of midnight on as he can retreat and charge again. 

He got charged by FW mammoth and some other stuff. Clouded then in my turn jumped out and charged something else. Also he has a large bubble of re roll 1 to wound. Then he also gets more out of Volturnos high tide pump.

Aspect of sea I’ve not used but can also see as being very good. Use cogs and slow time plus no rend artifact he’s on 3+ re rollable and 3 spells which is baller. I wish you could fit in both to a list but it would be difficult. My main thing with magic though in AoS 2 is that death and tzeentch just trump you. Then other armies are bringing magic hate. It feels like it’s best to either be mass magic or none.