Best morboy triggering monster?

[Izikail]

Hi. Im building a load of kop rukk lists atm and im wondering what people would consider to ge the best MONSTER to bring to make sure i get my morboy boost. 

My top three considerations are

Giant: its cheep, it dose something when it dies (witch we want it to do) and its not bad, just bot great

Mangler squig: not as cheep but not a bad price, dose something when it dies

Colossal squig: bit more pricy, faster (although random), dose something when it dies, dose more work while alive (but wont be forever) 

Some honerable mentions are 

Ork warboss on wyven: very usefull fast and not a bad fighter, has a good comand ability, downside is we need the monster to have an impact and die and we would like this guy to stay around a bit longer.

Rock idle: great punch, buffs my casters, dose something when it dies, downside is its death hurts more than the huge loss of points, dont want it dead, it cost alot of points 

 

What do you guys think about morboy trigging monster options?

[Skabnoze]

I would suggest the Giant or Colossal Squig if it is mainly being included for a Morboy bonus.  

The Giant is probably the cheapest monster for this purpose.  But, he can also punch above his cost and if used aggressively it can be hard for an opponent to ignore - which plays right into your hands for having him die and buff the morboyz.

The Colossal Squig is similar but he can be a bit faster and he tends to be deadlier.  He also blows up when he dies - which makes him effective as a missile to fling straight into the enemy.

I like the greenskinz wyvern, but one of his best features is that he is very resilient - which runs a bit counter to what your goal is.  Now, if you want a mobile and durable combat monster with the ability to buff your Savage orcs with a command ability then the greenskinz warboss on wyvern is excellent.

[PlasticCraic]

If you're looking for a Monster mainly to do something then die, I'd say it has to be the Gargant.  It's pretty impactful but very easy to kill with its 5+ save!   And the cheapest by some distance at 160 points.

I do like the Wyvern too (assuming Allies can use Command Abilities), the shields are generally the smart pick but you could always go with 2 Choppas to make him more inpactful at the cost of less survivable?  Not sure that's the best use of him though.

With the points drop for Gargants you could now fit in both a Gargant AND a Wyvern in the 400 points slot.  In which case they could both buff your Kopp Rukk, but in different ways: the Gargants to kill stuff then die, the Wyvern for his command ability and to play his own game (and be a fairly durable Hero for the relevant missions).  Remembering of course that Morrboys have 2 melee profiles, so they'll get an extra attack with each ?

 

[Aginor]

Hmmm... Gargant should do the job.

[PlasticCraic]

Just to complicate matters, can I throw the Arachnarok into the mix?  280 points so not terribly expensive for a 2-spell caster, and not too big a gaping hole in your army when it dies.  Can do a bit in combat, gives you access to mortal wounds and rend.  With all the new toys it can make productive use of both spells.  More durable than the Gargant but will rarely see out a game - and can be very impactful early on!

Main downside that I see is the loss of Damned removes the final way to buff its Hit roll, and there seems to be a lot more -1 to hit around these days.  So you will be relying on hitting natural 6s at best (unless they tweak the warscroll, but it's Destruction so probably not).  I'd still say Gargant is the go-to, but I wouldn't dismiss the A-Rok without giving it serious thought.

[Skabnoze]

The Arachnarok is not a bad idea if you plan to use endless spells.  It is durable and you will probably be running this thing up front in the enemies face.  You would probably be able to summon some of the endless spells further out than the rest of your casters could get them.

[Malakree]

I would definitely go with the gargant. Mainly because you can get 2 for 320 points.

You're only paying slightly more than some of your other choices and get 2 monsters instead of just the one.

This makes it far more likely one will get somewhere your opponent really doesn't want it to be so get killed. It's also a boon for things like duality of death as you now have a monster for both objectives.

Lastly is the disgusting nature of the giants stuffing a model in their bag. With the new coherency rule two giants pose a very real risk to breaking your opponents coherency even if he doubles up his line.

[Ollie Grimwood]

I know what you’re saying but the only thing that triggers Orruks are Aelves and maybe Stunties. Actually definitely Stunties. 

(I’d probably go with a Mangler Squig it’s got a bit of a Kamikaze feel to it and is generally hilarious. Probably not the most “efficient” choice but it is probably the most fun) 

[PlasticCraic]

Necro since the FW update dropped...does the Basilisk come into the mix?

160 points (joint cheapest), quicker than the Gargant, does Mortal Wounds, dies quicker.

Doesn't have the combat potential of the Gargant though.

Is he in the conversation?

(I have ordered one ?)

[Malakree]

No because you need to be able to ally it into your army. 

The Aleguzzlers (that's the faction name now) are all a good choice. Gargants are cheap as chips and you can easily fit 2 in a list while the Bonegrinder is now exactly 400 points and sure to scare the everliving hell out of your opponent, seriously look at this warscroll! He has an 18" grot rock lobber attack just because. 

Spoiler

What's that, you have 6 models in your unit, yeah take d6 mortal wounds just because.

Next is the Rogue Idol, this has been massively buffed, not only did they remove all the random from it, at full wounds its feet now do 10 attacks on a 3+/3+/-2/2, but they also removed the negatives for it dying. Plus it fits the aesthetics of Bonesplitterz perfectly.

Lastly the colossal Squig obviously gets a mention for it's hilarity. It's fast as all hell which makes it ideal for triggering your morboys because your opponent HAS to deal with it. Just like the Rogue Idol a lot of it's randomness has been removed (though it still has random move characteristics) and....holy gods 8 attacks with it's jaws which inflict d3 mortal wounds if you roll an unmodified 6, even with 1 wound left you should still be getting 2 mortal wounds a turn out of it eating stuff.

The best part about the squig though has to be the fact it randomly explodes into cave squigs when it dies. Seriously, it blows up and you get to put 5 cave squigs down. If it dies in your combat phase suddenly the opponent is going to find he has a unit of cave squigs right infront of his line stopping him from manouvering properly. All that for 300 points!

 

Conclusion

If you want cheap and easy to get hold of then an Aleguzzler Gargant or two is going to be it. On the other hand if you want a choice your opponent will never see coming then the Bonegrinder, Rogue Idol and Colossal Squig all have a lot going for them depending on what you want out of your monster. In my opinion you will be looking at one of those 4 as an activator for your Morboys.

[PlasticCraic]

18 minutes ago, Malakree said:

No because you need to be able to ally it into your army. 

Oof, you are right, no Monsters of Destruction as allies!  RIP.

Money well spent!

[PlasticCraic]

@Malakree yeah I'm a big fan of both the Bonegrinder and Colossal, I've also ordered one of each of them, and they might actually see some table time unlike the Basilisk from the sound of it!

I was planning on a fun Big Lads army for the Bongrinder (him + a couple of Aleguzzlers + Ogors as Destruction Battleline).  Hadn't really thought of him in the Bonesplitterz but it could work - although generally a Morr Boys army already has volume of attacks, it more lacks a reliable can opener and his rend -2 and mortals are very limited and unreliable.  I don't think he's your answer to a Treelord Ancient for example. 

One other thing to mention there is his 6" pile in, which as any Yhetees fans can testify is incredibly useful.  Also the model is massive which is definitely a Rule of Cool factor!

The Rogue Idol is amazing now and definitely synergises nicely with the wizards you'll likely be running.  You don't really want him to die, but at least it's a nice consolation if he does.

And agreed on the Colossal!  Those things are excellent.  And as @Ollie Grimwood mentioned it is a true kamikaze unit.  Fling it in there and let the good times roll!

Agreed on your Conclusion too.

[Skabnoze]

The Squig Gobba should probably be tossed into the mix for consideration now.  It is a monster and so it can trigger the Morboy buff. 

It lost the rule about remaining stationary so it can now advance and fire at full effect.  It has a decent melee profile and only 8 wounds.  It is also tied for the cheapest monster cost at 160.  The downside for it is that it is probably the slowest option since you will want to shoot with it rather than run.  But it is dangerous enough that an enemy might want to kill it.

Something to think about.

As for the Colossal Squig, I am not sure how well it sits in this role anymore.  Sure, it is definitely a monster to spearhead your force with, but the -1 to hit in melee ability with the new profile makes it more durable than it used to be.  If the goal is crash the monster into the enemy and force them to kill it then the Mangler might be a better choice now than the colossal.

[PlasticCraic]

Good shout on the Gobba @Skabnoze

My main problem with the Colossal is fitting it in.  I'm currently trying to do Drakkfoot and it's really tight with the Batallion costs in there.

You get a lot for that: Access to the spell for extra pile ins on top of the Wurggog's CA, 1 drop (2 with an Allied Monster) plus a few Command Points to have fun with.  But it really is a big investment.

[Skabnoze]

I think the Squig Gobba is a good unit for Bonesplitterz even without the Morboy buff.  It is the only artillery choice that Bonesplitterz can get since they cannot ally with Gitmob.  It also happens to be arguably one of the best goblin artillery units when you take the whole unit into consideration and not just the shooting attack.

It has a good shooting attack.  It has very good melee.  It has a good price.  It is slow, but still mobile.  And it is easily the most durable artillery piece since the crew is rolled into a single profile and cannot be picked off.  

[PlasticCraic]

Yep that makes sense.

Another factor is the space in the Allies points allocation.  With anything over 260, you cannot fit in a Warboss with Waaagh! Banner, which I would definitely want in there.

[Skabnoze]

20 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yep that makes sense.

Another factor is the space in the Allies points allocation.  With anything over 260, you cannot fit in a Warboss with Waaagh! Banner, which I would definitely want in there.

If you want to bring both a monster and the Warboss (I’m looking into the same thing), then that narrows the field to the Giant, Squig Gobba, and Mangler Squig.

The Mangler is almost guaranteed to get you the dead monster bonus as an opponent would be insane to not prioritize killing it.  Manglers have a stupid amount of damage output and they die easier than the Giant.  But it also costs 80 points more than a Giant.

The  Squig Gobba is slow but that spit attack is pretty good.  If you are running a Kopp Rukk then you can probably get away with concentrating on spells and some ranged combat early on and then go full on melee for the mid-late game.  The Squig Gobba might work well for that strategy.

But if you want combat early on and you want to go Drakkfoot + Banner boss then the Giant might be the best option given his cost.  He is also dangerous enough that I don’t think most opponents will ignore him - at least not after the first round of combat.

[Malakree]

11 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

As for the Colossal Squig, I am not sure how well it sits in this role anymore.  Sure, it is definitely a monster to spearhead your force with, but the -1 to hit in melee ability with the new profile makes it more durable than it used to be.  If the goal is crash the monster into the enemy and force them to kill it then the Mangler might be a better choice now than the colossal

My feeling is that for 40 extra points the colossal is going to be better, not least because it moves at twice the speed.

Also if you can get it into a ranged unit they are forced to shoot it, it's not the kind of thing that can be ignored so the -1 to hit just means your opponent will need to commit heavier resources to kill it.

With regards to the drakfoot I think the rogue idol is going to be easily the best despite the price. The +1 to cast makes it a huge threat to the enemy even if it's not in combat. It's going to be a pain to fit in but the best if you can.

13 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Oof, you are right, no Monsters of Destruction as allies!  RIP.

Money well spent!

If you want to use it honestly I would suggest GA:destro using them and the magma dragons. It's 160+540 putting them at 700 for one of each. For 1.4k points you could field 2 of each which is a pretty horrific amount of mortal wounds being thrown around.

Honestly it would go pretty well with a small moonclan force.

[amysrevenge]

Is it just me, or does Warboss/Wyvern + Squig Gobba = exactly 400?

[Skabnoze]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

My feeling is that for 40 extra points the colossal is going to be better, not least because it moves at twice the speed.

Also if you can get it into a ranged unit they are forced to shoot it, it's not the kind of thing that can be ignored so the -1 to hit just means your opponent will need to commit heavier resources to kill it.

With regards to the drakfoot I think the rogue idol is going to be easily the best despite the price. The +1 to cast makes it a huge threat to the enemy even if it's not in combat. It's going to be a pain to fit in but the best if you can.

The speed on the Colossal Squig is a fair point.  I am really high on the new Colossal Squig for my Moonclan - I'm just not quite sure as a Bonesplitter ally.

I am really not sure about the Rogue Idol though.  The bonus to spell-casting bubble for him is really really small now.  It will still be a decent-sized bubble since it extends from his large base, but I am not sure that I would be willing to spend 400 points for something that would have to sit back for that bonus.  You can always fling him into combat, but he just seems like he fits into a weird middle role for an army like this.  I am more interested in the Rogue Idol for a Wierdfist right now.

I guess it depends on how you are going to use the Kopp Rukk.  If you go for a pure melee assault backed by buffing from the casters then he will probably be good since everything will be moving as fast as it can towards the enemy.  But, this will come at the loss of a Greenskinz banner boss who provides both a passive buff aura and a really nice command ability.  I'm not sure I would be willing to make that trade for a +1 to cast my buff spells.

If you go more for emphasizing some of the damage spells, then I think you will want a spell-portal, and that list will probably end up moving slower as it starts the game by hurling spells and then sends the Morboyz in mid-late game after you have softened up the enemy.  The only way to really stay mobile for that would be to cast your spell portal each turn, fling spells through it, and then dispel it yourself with your final cast action.  But we have some spells that could be really nasty with the spell portal - such as Bone Crusha (I really want to smash people with that!).  For a nuke-spell based Kopp Rukk it might also even be worth bringing some wizard allies such as the Fungoid Shaman who can also toss nuke AoE bombs through the spell portal.  The Rogue Idol again seems like he is tough to fit into that.

I am sure I will try him out, but I am not sure how well he fits into these strategies compared to other choices.  I think I am still inclined to reach for the cheapest monster options.

[Towenaar]

I think I'm going to go with the Giant. He's the cheapest and lets me fit in an allied Warboss with the Waaagh banner. The other monsters are faster or more dangerous but the Giant can still do some work with a few good rolls. 

[PlasticCraic]

5 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

fling spells through it, and then dispel it yourself with your final cast action.  But we have some spells that could be really nasty with the spell portal - such as Bone Crusha (I really want to smash people with that!).  For a nuke-spell based Kopp Rukk it might also even be worth bringing some wizard allies such as the Fungoid Shaman who can also toss nuke AoE bombs through the spell portal.  The Rogue Idol again seems like he is tough to fit into that.

Some really good points there.  One thing I would point out is that you can't dispell the portal yourself the same turn you cast it - but there are ways around that.  For example you could swamp the portal with a block of Morr Boys and not leave any room for the spells to be set up.

Great shout on the Bone Krusha!  Yeah I'm looking forward to that one too.  And agreed on the Fungoid, his spell through a Portal could be excellent (especially if you invest in a BWV for him too).

[broche]

Right now if you play Morboys Wyvern is the no-brainer. Ability to waaaagh in Bonesplitterz is really good (work well with Boar and Stabba as well)

[Skabnoze]

4 hours ago, broche said:

Right now if you play Morboys Wyvern is the no-brainer. Ability to waaaagh in Bonesplitterz is really good (work well with Boar and Stabba as well)

Doesn’t that sort of run counter to why you want the monster though?

You want the monster to hit the enemy like a bowling ball and then get killed to give all your morboys +1 to hit.  If you take the wyvern boss then you will want him to live so that you can use his command ability.

At 240 the price is certainly right on the wyvern boss.  But a giant and a banner boss only costs you 60 points more and gets you the waaagh, a reroll 1s to wound bubble, and a sacrificial monster.

[broche]

Opponent will want to kill hit to stop his command anyway. it take 44 damage to kill it. It fly and move 12. A giant does mostly nothing. it's still overprice at 160. And it can miss his charge. His best ability now is causing a split unit by snipping a specific model...