AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Ganigumo]

40 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

I've got a question  for my fellow beast lords, so the new sons of Behemat army are cool and all but there are 2 rules that I feel might cause us problems. 1: longshanks - they get to walk over anything less than a shaggoth as though it wasn't there. Not a super big deal, just keep models close enough to prevent their big base from fitting.            2: Mightier makes rightier - they count as lots of models (anywhere from 10 to 30 depending on the details). Between these 2 it will be extremely difficult to keep hold of our objectives, even with advanced screening tactics. So here's my question.

How do we take an objective back from a mega gargant? They count as minimum 20 models and they just have to touch the 6 inch zone.  Especially when it's possible for a kraken eater to be at -2 to hit (but more likely -1). Never mind that krakens can move the objectives. It just feels like a tough match up for us. We both live and die by our objective control. Thoughts?

Cheers for any musings,

For Morghur!

Kraken eaters only get to -2 against monsters, and if they have the taker tribe you can be a bit more aggressive with your big units.

Sons have trouble with screens in general, and 35 wounds on a 4+ isn't super durable so if you can hit them hard with a big unit of bestigors or something they should go down.

[Lior'Lec]

     @TheArborealWalrus, thanks for the comparison pic; you’re right they’re close enough to use but the more I look at them the more I wanna paint them just to paint them. Since I only really need/want one for each god I may just convert some up for my board game and paint these guys just for fun. 

[Popisdead]

On 10/17/2020 at 9:43 PM, Lior'Lec said:

     Hey guys, on my way home earlier this week I stopped at a random game store and found a box of Khornegors and Pestigors. I bought them partially on impulse and partly to use in dungeon crawl board games (well, one of each anyway). I opened both boxes this evening to check them out, and while the sculpts are lovely I was a little disappointed to realize they’re metal sculpts from early 2000’s (I’m worried about scale creep).

Well they are the models I use.  I just have them on 32 mm.  I pinned up the hoof, didn't remove the slotta and built the base up a bit.  Mostly people are jealous cause I have the classic sculpts well painted rather than "oh those are old".

On 10/17/2020 at 10:05 PM, AronQ_ said:

 Hello everyone! What can you say about Depraved Drove? I wanna start army of beastmen of Slaanesh. Can you share any tips and tactics please. And I have question could I use both artefacts or traits from hedonites and from greatfrays(Allherd, Gavespawn and Darkwalkers?) or not? And look what an awesome miniature of Slaangor in Underworlds Beastgrave!

Look at the Hedonites of Slaanesh and look for posts about a year+ ago by CB42.  He used the Depraved Drove heavily with HoS rules and did well.  Gist of it is: Ungors are good (3x10 as a start), blocks of Bestigors 15-30 wide with Cogs cast by a Contorted Epitome get them across well.  A second block of 30 Bestigors is good, 20 Seekers is also good but need the KEeper for the double attacks.  Granted the double attack on the 30 Bestigors is really good.  60 Bestigors attack ing as an alpha strike and one or two attacking twice would be amazing to behold.

On 10/18/2020 at 3:49 PM, TheArborealWalrus said:

I've got a question  for my fellow beast lords, so the new sons of Behemat army are cool and all but there are 2 rules that I feel might cause us problems. 1: longshanks - they get to walk over anything less than a shaggoth as though it wasn't there. Not a super big deal, just keep models close enough to prevent their big base from fitting.            2: Mightier makes rightier - they count as lots of models (anywhere from 10 to 30 depending on the details). Between these 2 it will be extremely difficult to keep hold of our objectives, even with advanced screening tactics. So here's my question.

How do we take an objective back from a mega gargant?

I guess that's a good point.  From what I've heard with Behemat is they play like BoC.  Don't kill much, cap objectives well. die pretty good.  

[Maddpainting]

Anyone got an update with that guy that did all the Cockatrice at an event last week? He ever replayed on FB/Insta

[TheArborealWalrus]

Had an hour and a half game vs Sons of Behemat. 2,000pts, Total Commitment. We fought in the realm of chamon (metal) which would later prove pivotal. May or may not have been being assaulted by the actual Behemat  as his breath nearly destroyed the table. (We did this and a sudden wind storm hit. Died down fortunately, although a minotaur broke. Fixed him up after) I imagine this battle with both armies seeing the other as a tasty snack and going in.

My list: 1990 pts Beasts of Chaos (warherd) - Gavespawn: Honestly I knew this list was probably a terrible idea. 32 models against mightier makes rightier? I'd only take objectives from their cold dead hands, so I went with gvespawn over the traditional darkwalkers. List tailoring? Eh, a little. I just wanted minotaurs as a break from my drogor/bull list. Still fun, but I wanted to see about hitting the giants.

Spoiler

- 180pts - Brass Despoilers battalion

Doombull - general - gnarlblade

Doombull - artifact I forgot he had until it was too late

2x3 bullgor with shield

1x6 bullgor with shield

2x6 bullgor with great weapons

1x3 bullgor with great weapons

Ghorgon

- Cygor 

- chaos spawn

My opponent's list: ?? pts - Kraken eater tribe

Spoiler

Kraken eater mega gargant - general, -1 to be hit within 3" command trait + net that grabs monsters on 4+ for another -1

- Gatebreaker mega gargant

- 2x1 mancrusher gargants

- 1x3 mancrusher gargants

Deployment: There was really no terrain to speak of and we were trying for speed hammer, so we didn't roll effect for each terrain piece. (Good thing since Behemat attacked not long into turn 1) On the left my opponent put the gatebreaker with 1 mancrusher hiding out behind a pillar of ice. In the center was the 3 mancrusher unit and the kraken. On the right was a solitary mancrusher. I put the herdstone as center as I could and lined up the shield bulls and the cygor on the go line. They were serving as chaff. The smaller units grabbed the flanks. Behind them were the hitters. On the right was my monster mash (cygor more center) and the 3 bull great weapons. In the center was the spawn, the general and 1 of the 6 man great weapons. The other was on the left with the other doombull. There was a tower in the center on his side that was vaugely in the way (and some barricades that we both ignored). 

Turn 1/2: I made him go first and he moved his man crushers in range to throw rocks at the 6 man shield unit. He did 3 wounds to one. Oof. That was about it for his turn the megas throw rocks that all did nothing.  My turn. I moved up my right flank and threw a rock with the cygor. He missed. My left moved to prevent themselves from being lonshanked and sort of hugged a bit of ruins. (They were the old 40k ruins and didn't really amount to much so I didn't mention them previously) Everything ran and nothing happened. TURN 2: My opponent won the roll off and went. He punted his objective backwards to keep it away from me and huged the edge of his range band and threw more rocks at the same shield unit. 3 bulls died and the megas did 1 wound to a 3 bull unit. I spent a command point to keep my bulls put. The lone mancrusher on the right tried to charge my chaff but failed. (rolled a 4) My turn I moved my right flank to punish the lone giant and moved the center up. The cygor threw his rock and missed. He and he rest of the center couldn't fit in and stayed put. The right got both 3 man units in  and obliterated the lone gargant.  He did 7 mortal between the 2 units and the ghorgon as he fell (1 of which was healed with blood greed)

Turn 3: I won roll off and went first. My right flank moved to assault his 3 man unit and my left held. No reason to push yet I thought (as a rock flew over my head). The center could only get the cygor into the kraken and that was suicide so he threw a rock instead. Surprisingly it hit! Even more of a surprise was that it did 6 damage to the kraken eater! Just surpassed my expectations. The great weapons took out another mancrusher and then one ate it from return hits with one of the shields. They did do 10 wounds to another gargant for 5 mortals from the dead one (split between the units). Everybody passed battleshock. His turn he finally moved forwards. Both megas made for my center, hoping to snag the 2 big great weapon units. Rocks killed a bull  and that was about it. The kraken made it into the right hand hammer block with the cygor and the gatebreaker made it into the doombull, central shield unit, and the chaos spawn. The spawn died with a bull from the breaker (fittingly) and the kraken did a total of 2 mortals. Yeah, he did not improve his luck later in the combat phase. The lone mancrusher on the left engaged the chaff and did 2 mortals. He used the realm command and the re-roll 1s command on the kraken. "Those bulls have to die" He promptly managed to get 12 damage through on them, killing 3. So many failed 3+ wounds. In response my bulls fighting the crippled crusher(s) managed a single wound between them all.  1 more and it would have died. *sigh* The giants left only the shield bloodkind standing on 3 wounds. Like their kin the kraken bulls only got a single attack through for 3 damage. The cygor surprised me yet again by doing a wound too! Go get 'em boy! The gatebreaker wiped out everything he touched for 3 wounds on another whiffed attack sequence.  I did get another spawn out of it though. Almost as if in vengeance the chaff bulls obliterated the mancrusher but were left with just the bloodkind after it all. I still had the banner in the great weapon unit and opted to not use the command point. Fortunately I didn't roll a 6 or a 5 in the other units.

Turn 4: I won the roll off and it was payback time. Everything moved into the massive scrum in the center. The undamaged hammer made for the gatebreaker while the ghorgon, and general moved to hurt the kraken. The lone bull on the left sprinted for my opponent's objective on the left. All my boys made it in. I used the chamon command with the gavespawn to get my great weapon bulls into terrifying levels and went with them first. They were in the herdstone aura for -3 rend and killed the gatebreaker in one go. It was gnarly. In response the kraken tried to kill the general and remaining bulls. He whiffed the damage rolls for the non club and whiffed the hits on the bulls. Both units had 1 wound left. The lone shield bull managed to kill the injured mancrusher and died for his troubles. The other was in range to do 4 wounds to the ghorgon.  In total all his assailants left the kraken on 2 wounds left.

Turn 5/ End Thoughts: I won the roll off and my opponent conceded. He had 12 wounds between his 2 models and both were in serious danger. This was his second game with the sons so I forgive his mistakes, but I encouraged him to charge me at every opportunity. He didn't.  You saw the damage he did (while whiffing) on the charge. He could have made a turn 2 charge but didn't. That was probably his biggest mistake. I think the phrase "Easy to learn, hard to master" describes the sons best. I think I played the bulls about as well as I could with what I had. I know the cygor and even the ghorgon would be better replaced with something else, but I don't have anymore warherd. Plus I like them. Well, I hope you enjoyed the battle report and remeber,

For Morghur!!!

Edited October 27, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[Maddpainting]

Honestly, SoB should be both easy and hard for us depending on how many objectives there is. The lower the number of Objectives the harder for us to win. 

Their biggest strength is running right at the objectives and laughing at everyone. If they have to split their force up to much (say 5-6 objectives) they can not put 2 on 1 objective or at least have 1 on each and 1 big guy running round body blocking and doing the charging.

[Popisdead]

I heard a neat trick the other day for Beasts of Chaos.  A palisades in front of the Dirgehorn.  I cannot see it being easy to get both spells off in this meta for everyone but sounds like it was a useful trick for the player in the past.

[Popisdead]

11 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

 Well, I hope you enjoyed the battle report and remeber,

For Morghur!!!

Yes always enjoy them.  Thanks kindly for sharing.

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

I heard a neat trick the other day for Beasts of Chaos.  A palisades in front of the Dirgehorn.  I cannot see it being easy to get both spells off in this meta for everyone but sounds like it was a useful trick for the player in the past.

I might have to steal this for my Phantasmagoria of  FateTzeentch list, nice find!

Edited October 26, 2020 by Ganigumo

[Apok]

9 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I might have to steal this for my Phantasmagoria of  FateTzeentch list, nice find!

Hello!

  Would You be so nice and explaing to a noob the combination of these 2 spells?:)

 

Best regards,

[Sauriv]

3 hours ago, Apok said:

Hello!

  Would You be so nice and explaing to a noob the combination of these 2 spells?:)

 

Best regards,

Dirgehorn gives enemies - 1 to hit with a growing range over time. 

Palisade have a chance of giving - 1 to hit to enemies within 6" on a roll of 5+ at the start of each turn.

So i guess the combo is just stacking - to hit modifiers. The thing though is that the palisade triggers at the start of each turn so the chance (only 33% btw) of debuffing comes the turn after you cast it making it hard to utilize. To use the palisade as a debuff you either need to pin the enemy down for at least a turn 📍 or predict the future 🔮. 

 

Another combo that to me seems more likely is to have a Shaggoth with hailstorm (halve move and run/charge rolls for a unit) and ally in a Khorne daemon prince (halve run and charge rolls as an aoe) .  The interesting thing here is that both effects halve the enemy's charge roll, this means that if the enemy is 3" away that unit must roll 10+ to charge! 10 / 2 / 2 = 2.5" charge. Why debuff a unit's to hit characteristic when you can make it unable to attack at all?!

(one spell that casts on a 6, and one cp for the command ability)

[Maddpainting]

On 10/26/2020 at 4:03 PM, Popisdead said:

I heard a neat trick the other day for Beasts of Chaos.  A palisades in front of the Dirgehorn.  I cannot see it being easy to get both spells off in this meta for everyone but sounds like it was a useful trick for the player in the past.

I don't use spells anymore. We don't have the tools to cast them anymore now with all these new armies and abilities to deny so easily. I honestly can't remember the last time I got something off other than turn 1 outside of 30".  

Literally after 10 games of not being able to cast anything important, including the Taurus I just stopped caring about magic all together. I will try to devolve and shield time to time, but it never works.

[Popisdead]

16 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

I don't use spells anymore. We don't have the tools to cast them anymore now with all these new armies and abilities to deny so easily. I honestly can't remember the last time I got something off other than turn 1 outside of 30".  

Literally after 10 games of not being able to cast anything important, including the Taurus I just stopped caring about magic all together. I will try to devolve and shield time to time, but it never works.

Have you tried a Tzeentch caster with his second attempt getting a reroll?  the price of the model is high and having fly can be a detriment vs shooting.

Similar thoughts were expressed in the Sylvaneth thread about the incapability to cast for armies without mega-casters   

Granted not everyone is facing a magic situation akin to being this dire.  I'm not.  So I am looking forward to this combo.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Popisdead

[Maddpainting]

6 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Have you tried a Tzeentch caster with his second attempt getting a reroll?  the price of the model is high and having fly can be a detriment vs shooting.

Similar thoughts were expressed in the Sylvaneth thread about the incapability to cast for armies without mega-casters   

Granted not everyone is facing a magic situation akin to being this dire.  I'm not.  So I am looking forward to this combo.

Yes, many times. Basically unless I'm against one of the 5 armies without magic support it doesn't matter (IJ, IDK, StD, etc..). 

Sylvaneth had literally 1/2 their magic taken away, a good friend plays them and first got them for their magic and trick's, almost all of that is gone. That book is without a doubt the worst book in balance in this game and they need a new book before anyone else (maybe not before some of the Death as they are fractured and faqed 20x).

Let me know how that combo goes, as i'll never be able to play it lol.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Maddpainting

[TheArborealWalrus]

Yes, I had another battle. My minotaurs vs Tzeentch.  Battle for the pass. Realm of beasts. There were scenery rules, but they didn't do anything significant. 

I had the same list as before, but I replaced half the big bull shield unit with 10 bestigors and upgrading the cygor to a gorgon. I was also using Darkwalkers instead of gavespawn.

Spoiler

My opponent ran :

- Archaon the everchosen

- Fate master

- 3x3 flamers of tzeentch

- 1 exalted flamer

- The warstomper merc

The battle: It was fast and brutal. I dropped both ghorgons, 6 greatweapon bulls, and a doom bull center with 3 bull shield/ greatweapon groups on the flanks. There was the general (who I thought gave a +1 to charge, he doesn't), a 6 bull greatweapon unit and the bestigors in ambush. My opponent clung to the center as though the very touch of my ambushing minotaurs was death. Big boys on flanks, shootstar in the center. I made him go first so I wouldn't be immediately shot. He continued to hug the center as he took the middle objectives and he managed to get 2 flamers in range to kill 2 bulls from the big greatweapon unit. I used a command point to not worry about more casualties. My ambushers popped up with a new batch of ungors on the flanks. The bulls by the giant and the bestigor threatening his back. I moved up and charged Archaon with the doombull and both ghorgons. Or I should say tried. 2 double 1s and a 5 with only 1 re-roll did not result in the decapitating strike I wanted. Still, a ghorgon got in, so it should do something right? Wrong. -1 to be hit (stupid tzeentch daemon rule - grumble) and re-rolling 6s with a 3+ save resulted in 1 mortal wound going through. Total. In response he slayr of kings'ed my ghorgon. Not that his normal attacks wouldn't have been enough. I could have gotten the bull unit in (they made their charge) but I didn't want to "hand him free damage'. *sigh*

Turn 2: He won the roll off and went. Archy moved towards my 4 man bull unit while the giant went for the 6 on  the side. The flamer ball stood there and nuked my poor 6 bull unit, killing 4 with 2 of them. The others killed 2 more from the 4 bull unit. The giant impact hit the bulls off the table and Archaon charged the right flank, leaving 1 shield bull on 1 wound. He stuck around. My turn I grabbed his unguarded  home objective and both center ones back. The general moved on the exposed flamer blob with the 3 greatweapon bull unit. The rest of my army tried to prevent Archy from taking my base. The ungors grabbed the side objectives (1 freshly summoned). I made my charges and was set up to rip the heart out of his army. I'd drag in Archaon, but it would be worth it to kill the flamers. I swung and ... missed everything. 2 hits, no wounds. Mortals on 5s, nothing. It's fine though, the general was in, he'd ... whiff entirely too. *frustrated sigh* Archy wiped the bull unit. 

Turn 3: He won roll of and moved his 1 free flamer unit home while his big boys went for my remnants. The general took all the shooting of his tied up flamers to die (with 4 wounds left no less) and the 3 flamers annihilated the bestigor. Archy charged  the ghorgon and ungors on the left while the giant hit the doombull. All of my guys died, but in a surprise move the ghorgon did 11 wounds to Archaon, while he was at a -2 to be hit, re-rolling 6s. Damn, didn't expect that. I was up by a lot of points but had 3 units left on the table. 3 squishy units. I forgot to mention my opponent was using the tome of eyes as a 2 inch base enhancer. It's how he reached both my 2 units. Although I realized while typing this he couldn't just move it wherever he wanted after a move. Counts as a part of your base. Movement restrictions apply. Whoops.

Net result, I killed nothing for the loss of my entire army. Feels bad man. I'd ask for advice, but I've beaten the net tzeentch list with my beasts of khorne, so I know what to do. (I know this isn't the net list)The bulls just don't have the zoning to get them. Or hit rolls. I almost want to go back to my boK, but I'm  sticking around. Want to try a list based on total war warhammer beastmen next. Probably terrible, but I want a bit of everything (except thunderscorn). The hiding in the smaller guys doesn't work here though ... hmmm ... Oh well, I hope you enjoyed, and remember, 

For Morghur!

Edited October 29, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[Popisdead]

11 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Net result, I killed nothing for the loss of my entire army. Feels bad man. I'd ask for advice, but I've beaten the net tzeentch list with my beasts of khorne, so I know what to do. (I know this isn't the net list)The bulls just don't have the zoning to get them. Or hit rolls.

That is my main sticking point about the Warscroll re-write Bullgors got.  (they used to be 3/3s?  or were they always 4/3s?)  The swingyness, lack of armour, and slightly lower W count means they abandon you hard.  I've had turns when they hit twice from 6 guys.  They are so reliable for a turn 3/4 can opener dmg dealer (i'm not sure what else in game reliably gets -3 dmg 3) but,... what does that mean in-game?  In Heroquest 2 (the iPad game) they hit like a brick of trucks falling on you.  In this game they reliably whiff.  

Have you thought about 4 Ghorgons, ,maybe 3+ Doombulls , 3 man units then chaff ungor for board control?  Just loading MSU of swingy.  I've never run 4 Ghorgons (I can proxy two Cygors) and with DArkwalkers turn 1 or 2 just dropping a couple on each flank.  Even just no Bullgors, just Doombulls, Ungors and Ghorgons.  Keep throwing single models at the enemy with some tie up and objective scoring.  

[Lord Krungharr]

I think a few Cygors would have helped to take out the Exalted Flamer and Fatemaster.  Actually a  Tzeentch Beasts army with Cygors for Destiny Dice hitting!  Fatemaster doesn't get his +2 to saves from monsters either.  Then the Flamers wouldn't be nearly as bad.  

I also feel the Bullgor lament.  They were my first AoS army and they'll be my last too!  But for now I'm enjoying Ogors, as those Ironguts are what the Bullgors should have been.  Even just making the Doombull back to what he was before the tome would help a bunch, with a +1 to wound aura rather than pick a unit.  And it was a big aura, and he got 4 axe attacks.  So much better.  I think the greataxe bullgors always hit on 4+ though, however BoC has almost no buffs to hit do they?  Or is that what Gavespawn is for?  I can't remember.

[TheArborealWalrus]

4 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Have you thought about 4 Ghorgons, ,maybe 3+ Doombulls , 3 man units then chaff ungor for board control?  

Perhaps I should have said, I had played goat spam and got bored, so I switched to my whacky drogre/bull list until I wanted to switch it up again. I chose nothing but minotaurs (admittedly half were mantic ogres waiting for dragon bodies, but still) and minotaur accessories. I have 1 ghorgon and 1 cygor, so no monster spam for me. Would it be better with buffed up monsters behind ungors? Yes. Will I be doing that? No. I may not have the unending tide of ungors for a full tourney list, but  I feel the 40 raiders and 30 normals are enough for now. (ironically I have more blood reavers than that, *sigh*) Should I get more ungors? Maybe. Although, 10 of them are literal prisoners for the herd stone so... Regardless, I had just wanted to try out a pure minotaur army. Did not work and wasn't terribly fun, although against Tzeentch shooting, what is? I feel the call of Khorne allegiance again but I'm going to run a list based off an army in total war warhammer next. Hopefully fun. We'll see. Might switch allegiances after. I do like turning into a chaos spawn though. It's just fun.

2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

BoC has almost no buffs to hit do they?  Or is that what Gavespawn is for?

Unfortunately neither units are wizards, so no bonus vs them from cygor. I kind of want to use one in the marauding beastherd for when you randomly get the double hit. Destiny dice are indeed very powerful. There are 2 buffs to hit in our book. Only 1 is a direct +1. The shadepire warband has a unique spell to give +1 vs a targeted unit. It's a spell which I think casts on a 7, so not super reliable. The other improvement available is the khorne battalion for re-rolls of 1. Not as good, but easier to achieve. (friendly within 9") Gavespawn give + attacks and haven't been faq'ed to not do it repeatedly.

Bullgors are considered one of the most deadly units in the game in my area. My 6 man blocks attract all enemy fire possible. This is from when I ran them out of Khorne where +1 to hit and up to +2 attacks are fairly easily acquired. Even still with the above buffs (only +1 attack) a 6 bull brick killed a mega gargant in one go. Never underestimate the beef! That being said, they need a re-work. They don't feel like the literal ton and a half of murder dropping on you that they should be. (*images from total war bulldozing entire regiments*) Obviously points increase with it, but the stat brick is bad. Some big 'ol charge bonus and a re-work of the allegiance ability for them. I talked about it in more depth in another post with possible ideas (for the whole army too).

Cheers, for Morghur!

Edited October 29, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[Maddpainting]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I think a few Cygors would have helped to take out the Exalted Flamer and Fatemaster.  Actually a  Tzeentch Beasts army with Cygors for Destiny Dice hitting!  Fatemaster doesn't get his +2 to saves from monsters either.  Then the Flamers wouldn't be nearly as bad.  

I also feel the Bullgor lament.  They were my first AoS army and they'll be my last too!  But for now I'm enjoying Ogors, as those Ironguts are what the Bullgors should have been.  Even just making the Doombull back to what he was before the tome would help a bunch, with a +1 to wound aura rather than pick a unit.  And it was a big aura, and he got 4 axe attacks.  So much better.  I think the greataxe bullgors always hit on 4+ though, however BoC has almost no buffs to hit do they?  Or is that what Gavespawn is for?  I can't remember.

My first game vs Lumineth was a month or so ago, i wanted to give him all the chances to play with all his stuff so I took double Warheard list, 2 Cygors, 2 Ghorgons, and lots of Bullgors with 2 Doombulls. This gave him 2 turns (unless double) to fix mistakes, etc.. 

The 4 Denys and MW's chances from the Cygors actually did a lot of work, even though he had  a +1 to cast (I deny only the units not Tect b.c yeah....) I was denying at least once a turn and sometimes twice, I ended up with 9 denys in total. Turn 2 I deny 3 (the best turn it could roll the best for me) killing 3 of their Archers was huge, b.c thats 3 more chances of no MW's.

I can see this helping vs DoT too as they are not very good vs Single man units and the Denys can help.

[Lord Krungharr]

Anyone know or read rumors if the Broken Realms thing will give our BoC any goodies or updates at all?  I’ve read many ppl thinking that every faction will get something.   Apparently even Cities of Sigmar got two new cities?!?!  We’re gonna need something to help us tear down even more civilizations 😁

[Ganigumo]

20 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Anyone know or read rumors if the Broken Realms thing will give our BoC any goodies or updates at all?  I’ve read many ppl thinking that every faction will get something.   Apparently even Cities of Sigmar got two new cities?!?!  We’re gonna need something to help us tear down even more civilizations 😁

All major factions will get something (rip azgorh), hopefully its more than just us being able to use slaangors (if mortal slaanesh is part of the shattered realms releases).  We could really use some warscroll updates (Dragon ogors, Beastlord, Cygor, Ghorgon) and some plastic characters, even if its just one, so that our potential shattered realms box set won't just be tzaangors or have a bray shaman thrown in. 

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

All major factions will get something (rip azgorh), hopefully its more than just us being able to use slaangors (if mortal slaanesh is part of the shattered realms releases).  We could really use some warscroll updates (Dragon ogors, Beastlord, Cygor, Ghorgon) and some plastic characters, even if its just one, so that our potential shattered realms box set won't just be tzaangors or have a bray shaman thrown in. 

There's some hope in the fact they are printing updated warscrolls for a whopping 4 units in the IDK portion. 

[Maddpainting]

11 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

All major factions will get something (rip azgorh), hopefully its more than just us being able to use slaangors (if mortal slaanesh is part of the shattered realms releases).  We could really use some warscroll updates (Dragon ogors, Beastlord, Cygor, Ghorgon) and some plastic characters, even if its just one, so that our potential shattered realms box set won't just be tzaangors or have a bray shaman thrown in. 

Beastlords are honestly fine. I still prefer it as a damage dealer over a Doombull in Gavespawn simply b.c of the RR's and faster movement from Shamans. I have won games b.c of him where the Doombull... well he is very good but only b.c of his Points. I'd rather the Doombull go up to 160pts and gets 9 wounds, 3+ save, 6 attacks, make him a beafcake scary leader instead of changing the Beaslord Warscroll. Beastlords just needs options for Command abilities like a Banner we used to have.

But we do need warscroll updates, Gors, Jabber, etc.. Though IMO the most important would be to have a set of rules for Monsters in our book, kind of like how BCR and Ogres are in their book. DO's, Shaggoths, Razorgors, Hounds, Cocatrice, Chimera, etc.. Let them have Shaggoth as the leader, Hounds and DO as battleline. This will let GW balance the army better as you can't over lap a lot of the rules so many units don't have to be over costed for a high Potential that 50% of games you can only get to 1/2 its potential, 10% of games you get most of it, and the other 40% you got nothing. 


PS, Teclis is super easy to kill. He only has a 4+ save, no after saves as a base, and no way to heal (without endless spells), he can for 1 turn get a 3+ save, but its only a 3+. Make him waste it turn 1 with some shooting of raiders and then kill him turn 2, the army falls apart if he is in it. After playing i think he is not very good and the army is better without him.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Ganigumo]

57 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Beastlords are honestly fine. I still prefer it as a damage dealer over a Doombull in Gavespawn simply b.c of the RR's and faster movement from Shamans. I have won games b.c of him where the Doombull... well he is very good but only b.c of his Points. I'd rather the Doombull go up to 160pts and gets 9 wounds, 3+ save, 6 attacks, make him a beafcake scary leader instead of changing the Beaslord Warscroll. Beastlords just needs options for Command abilities like a Banner we used to have.

But we do need warscroll updates, Gors, Jabber, etc.. Though IMO the most important would be to have a set of rules for Monsters in our book, kind of like how BCR and Ogres are in their book. DO's, Shaggoths, Razorgors, Hounds, Cocatrice, Chimera, etc.. Let them have Shaggoth as the leader, Hounds and DO as battleline. This will let GW balance the army better as you can't over lap a lot of the rules so many units don't have to be over costed for a high Potential that 50% of games you can only get to 1/2 its potential, 10% of games you get most of it, and the other 40% you got nothing. 
 

Oh yeah I forgot about Gors, no idea what could be done with them though, they're stuck between two units in bestigors and ungors which both do their jobs well already. The only thing I can think of is to push them into a more defensive role, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense lorewise, since its a niche neither ungors nor bestigors are good at.

I mostly want a beastlord change to give him a more accessible CA, even if its a bit weaker, the current one is cool but having a weaker variant available without slaying models would be nice.

[Maddpainting]

Gors are easy, make them harder hitting and more attacks than Ungors, but not as good as Bestigors and price between them. Go back to 80/200 points, but change 2 things, 3+ to wound and base 2 attacks. They should hit harder than Ungors, but b.c bad weapons no rend like Bestigors, and are more glass if goes dual weapons, with shield a bit more tanky. Over all a 20man could get 60 attacks wound on 3+ over 40 attacks wound on 4+.  That is 20 wounds compare to 10 wounds, it literally doubles their wounds. 

Also, I'd rather have some of our Named Beastlords back too.... oh well.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Maddpainting