AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion

[walheim]

21 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Looks good .

I’d equipped the warlord with a warpforged blade and shield, since the shield will Garantie you that he might live a little bit longer.

the warpforgrd sword won’t really make him better or as good as a Ironjaws Megaboss, but should deal a lot of damage should he hit and wound with most of his attacks.

but let me tell you something, you don’t want your warlord in the frontline, there are reasons why Skaven Generals and hero’s lead from the back.

no Skaven Warlord, Grey seer or Verminlord in their right mind would ever engage their foe face to face and definitely won’t be a part of the first wave reaching the Enemy except for Queek Headtaker, but that guy was a beast in combat.

what you want to do is to wait until your foe-things are engaged with clanrats Stormvermins etc. And are wounded to the prime this is the only time your Skaven Warlord will shine in battle.

Verminlords can engage much earlier but beware of hero’s or monsters like Nagash, Morathi, Stardrake etc.

 

 

What i have planned is using my warlord as  backline bubble, hiding and surviving (heroically of course), and my verminlords i just throw out buffs and spells to weaken the enemy /strengthen me, the stormvermin are my elit killers, they are just going to go after units that are smaller, trying to get them killed in the first turn of combat if possible.

The clanrats exist to die, pitting them against a slowly loosing battle, using my other parts as the hammer hitting the enemy from the sides, working their way in to the middle. Preferably getting there before the clanrats have perished.

KILL-KILL!! YES-YES!! GLORY TO WARLORD SKITTLEZ THE WHITE RAT!

[Kramer]

18 hours ago, walheim said:

The clanrats exist to die, pitting them against a slowly loosing battle, using my other parts as the hammer hitting the enemy from the sides, working their way in to the middle. Preferably getting there before the clanrats have perished.

Don't underestimate buffed clanrats! They can really dish out of you get it right. Dying they always do right  

Also someone linked a very cool video about retreat and charging earlier. I think those kind of shenanigans is where they really shine. Opponents charge but leave a few alive? Retreat and re-engage at a better angle or just spread out to 4" in front of the unit. Keep blocking them. Amazingly annoying fun ?

[walheim]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

Don't underestimate buffed clanrats! They can really dish out of you get it right. Dying they always do right  

Also someone linked a very cool video about retreat and charging earlier. I think those kind of shenanigans is where they really shine. Opponents charge but leave a few alive? Retreat and re-engage at a better angle or just spread out to 4" in front of the unit. Keep blocking them. Amazingly annoying fun ?

Yes!

I also like locking my enemies with my clanrats, with bashing on one unit, and having another one of the enemies units just being able to pile in with one, taking away rats so that they'll keep piling in just hitting with one. I feel like a real warlord doing this!

[walheim]

Hi guys! 

Is this an OK list for a 1500 escaletion tournament?  Am i shooting myself in the foot if i dont bring more magicians?

 

Allegiance: Verminus
Skaven Warlord (100)
- Warpforged Blade
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Stormvermin (500)
- Halberd
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- Allies

Total: 1490 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 10
Allies: 290 / 400
Wounds: 135
 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, walheim said:

Hi guys! 

Is this an OK list for a 1500 escaletion tournament?  Am i shooting myself in the foot if i dont bring more magicians?

 

Allegiance: Verminus
Skaven Warlord (100)
- Warpforged Blade
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Stormvermin (500)
- Halberd
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- Allies

Total: 1490 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 10
Allies: 290 / 400
Wounds: 135
 

Looks good.

and no not really I wouldn’t take too many wizards with you anyways, but that’s just my thoughts for your list.

and extra wizard would give you the possibility of banning another casting but that extra banning is well in my oppinion just not needed, who cares if somebody does some damage on your clanrats, or casts the doublicating damage and en extra -1 rend onto their witch Aelves.

Actually you really want to Bann that one, but since it will be cast most of the time by a surten old hag who for some reason is as gifted as Nagash when it comes to magic, and thanks to her +3 to the cast you’ll either have to roll very high or can just forget it.

So your probably better of just taking a wizard and not 2

Edited November 10, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[robbobobo]

The more I lurk read the thread the more ideas I get, which leads to more lists. Currently I'm thinking of having some more ranged support in the form of Skryre Acolytes following behind the larger blocks of rats to provide some supporting fire as well as more bodies to cover objectives should the need arise. Otherwise I could consider Warp Lightning Cannons or move back to weapon teams again. Again, magic support is just in the form of a Warbringer and a Grey Seer. Unsure if I'm confident in these choices as I'm ever more tempted to take a Warpseer in addition to the Warbringer.  As such I'm providing a few lists again. All this effort is going into finding what list to take to CanCon next year.  Any suggestions and feedback are always appreciated.

List 1

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Skaven Warlord (100)
- Shield & Warpforged Blade
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
Grey Seer (100)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear

Units
30 x Stormvermin (420)
- Halberd & Shield
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 227

 

List 2

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Skaven Warlord (100)
- Shield & Warpforged Blade
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
40 x Stormvermin (500)
- Halberd & Shield
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)

Total: 1900 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 199

 

 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@walheim The next level of verminous shenanigans is stormvermin charge and retreat. Keep doing what you are doing with clanrats but keep a squad of stormvermin about 3-4  inches from the clanrat at the head of the conga line (the one engaged with an opponents unit) . Opponents who get greedy want to pile in on that one clanrat to maximize damage, angry that you pull such cheap tactics. Guess who's now in combat? the stormvermin.  You may not get the best pile-in but its always activating 2nd after the nearest enemy unit so they're safe. On your turn, you can retreat and charge with everything to best optimize your battle round. Enjoy. 

[walheim]

6 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@walheim The next level of verminous shenanigans is stormvermin charge and retreat. Keep doing what you are doing with clanrats but keep a squad of stormvermin about 3-4  inches from the clanrat at the head of the conga line (the one engaged with an opponents unit) . Opponents who get greedy want to pile in on that one clanrat to maximize damage, angry that you pull such cheap tactics. Guess who's now in combat? the stormvermin.  You may not get the best pile-in but its always activating 2nd after the nearest enemy unit so they're safe. On your turn, you can retreat and charge with everything to best optimize your battle round. Enjoy. 

That's the most evil thing i've ever read.. I love it!

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@walheim I haven't tried it yet but frankly this is where a lot of the weapon teams really shine. Your opponent is taking so long to kill clanrats you can park any short range weapon  team in the vicinity. Rattling gunners are my favorite if your locking down horde units, because they get +1 to hit if they are within 9''. Alternatively, clanrats can't really lock down single models right? Because the monster/hero's power isn't diminished after they pile in. To compensate, park warpfire throwers nearby. Ideally, you've locked everything down with swarms so they can get real close. The addition of weapons teams in this manner are great if you anticipate losing rats way too fast. 

Personally I've considered the "rat-drafting" with any unit in this way for full effect. It was because I found some match-ups don't favor the clanrat shenanigans. I found myself against Slaneesh and DOK. Any army that can pile-in more than 3'' is the real problem, not the overall shredding power of their units.  Also stuff like Megabosses just don't stop swinging which inspired the warpfire throwers.

 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@walheimOoh, ooh, I almost forgot I did this last week with a pair of Skaven Assassins. It wont really help your list but you have your offensive conga line right? Well lets say there's a pesky hero/monster/wizard thing attacking your conga line. You're like "filthy no-fur won't leave-leave", and you're opponent is like "what are you talking about?" Anyways, the first rats die but leaving one 2.5'' away locking down hero. At the beginning of the next combat, pop out so many assassins at the end of the line 5'' away from the hero. If he piles in, he can only attack the clanrats, then guess who's in combat? All of your assassins. If he doesn't pile in, he's still stuck in combat hopefully outside their melee range.  If he does, then well have fun. 

Its filthy. Especially if one of the rat boys has a realm artifact. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Gwendar]

Yeah, an Assassin with Sword of Judgement (I usually just say I'm taking the Assassin with claws for the 2 extra attacks over the blades, so more chances) is just an amazing hero killer since they re-roll all failed hits. Had someone do it last weekend on a Warchanter and he got off 15 MW's. Granted, he did it on a WLC since it was the end of the game and we just wanted to see what it could do, but SoJ is disgusting on certain units.

@robbobobo I think I prefer the balance of the first list more. I like Acolytes as support to run along behind Clanrats, that said; I tried out tunneling 20 Acolytes today against another Skaven player and 16 of them shooting managed to do 8 wounds against a unit of Stormfiends. I was enlightened to the Grinder teams specific wording to place the accompanying unit 'within 3" from the grinder and 9" (but notice it doesn't say more than) from enemy units'. I would consider a Grinder team as it allows some flexibility. Assuming you can roll that 3+ when you actually need it and can get off a 9" charge.

[walheim]

Today i bought the metal 2011 gamesday skaven warlord!
I really like the model and I'm excited på paint him.  (And it was cheaper than the heroes GW releases today.. )

Anyone else who likes this ratman?

Photo credit to dark_eye_jay on twitter

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, walheim said:

Today i bought the metal 2011 gamesday skaven warlord!
I really like the model and I'm excited på paint him.  (And it was cheaper than the heroes GW releases today.. )

Anyone else who likes this ratman?

Photo credit to dark_eye_jay on twitter

Yeah it’s a great looking model, although I like the Queek Headtaker miniature more.

[walheim]

25 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah it’s a great looking model, although I like the Queek Headtaker miniature more.

That's also a great modell, VERY dynamic pose!
Although I'm a real sucker for this one.. Might be that it's a limited, and the fact that he has a shield feels nice if you play a warlod with shield!

[michu]

Maybe we should send a message to GW for Made to Order? Because that's really nice Warlord. 

[walheim]

9 minutes ago, michu said:

Maybe we should send a message to GW for Made to Order? Because that's really nice Warlord. 

Yes, i second this!

[Skreech Verminking]

Hi everybody had some more ideas for tournament list, and well I started exploiting every mistake or rules Gw made to have a really fearsome army ready.

So for my first list her, I have added Skritch spiteclaw.

reason why : he can use his command ability multiple times on the same unit and the unit chosen does not need to be wholly within his range.

now I don’t know if you guys new this well nor did I, until most cunning maple showed it to me, the unit arriving with the warpgrinder team only has to stay 9” away from enemy units!!.

not more than 9” but just 9”.😲 you know how big this is?! It literally means that you’ll only need a 8inch charge rather than the usual 9.

with cogs this will be made a lot easier since it will now have a almost Garantie of making a charge thanks to the plus 2 to it.

now what could the Verminlord Deceiver be doing in my army? 

Like most of probably already guessed it. 

Spiteclaw will get the chance of being tranpsorted into the frontlines, trying to give my army +1-3 to their attacks.

and Guarantying me a reroll for the charge when needed.

the rest of my army will be staying back and watch the slaughtered.

reasons why the exist? Well there is no afterthought behind it.

for the second list I exchanged my more Melee focused units for well obliterating mortal wound and high damage spamming shooty units.

sonce the warpgrinder team allows me to set up a unit 9” away this’ll mean that my acolytes are turn 1in range.

transporting the plague priest with scitterleap will give me a chance of weakening my enemys  and giving me a reroll of every missed wound roll.

the rest of the army is well staying back and getting a possible high amount of shooting for the next 3turns maybe even 4

[Skreech Verminking]

Sorry made an mistake with the first list hier it is just added the second wizard for the cogs 😅

[Gwendar]

I absolutely love my shooty lists which is a major reason I mainly do Skryre. That said, I feel like in terms of competitive play, that second list will get overrun and shut down incredibly quickly with the few bodies. Maybe take some melee out of the first in order to fit in a WLC or two, or bump up the Acolytes for that Grinder strike.. Which.. 

..I can definitely speak for as I used 20 Acolytes + Grinder last weekend  and 16 managed to do 8-12 wounds to a Stormfiend unit(I said 8 in a previous post, but I believe it was actually 11 or so) so I plan to use that little tactic again until they FAQ it to say "more than 9".

[Skreech Verminking]

16 hours ago, Gwendar said:

I absolutely love my shooty lists which is a major reason I mainly do Skryre. That said, I feel like in terms of competitive play, that second list will get overrun and shut down incredibly quickly with the few bodies. Maybe take some melee out of the first in order to fit in a WLC or two, or bump up the Acolytes for that Grinder strike.. Which.. 

..I can definitely speak for as I used 20 Acolytes + Grinder last weekend  and 16 managed to do 8-12 wounds to a Stormfiend unit(I said 8 in a previous post, but I believe it was actually 11 or so) so I plan to use that little tactic again until they FAQ it to say "more than 9".

Thanks for your feedback.

use any mistakes and tricks to your advantage.  Show  Gw that the time has come for the skaven race to rise.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Thanks for your feedback.

and use any mistakes and tricks to your advantage.  Show  Gw that the time has come for the skaven race to rise 

I'm still holding out hope that we see something in 2019. Regardless, we can do well if played correctly, which has been a major reason I am moving towards more bodies\mixed lists than pure Skryre. Everyone understands how Gautfyre works, and even if they don't, completely decimating an opponent in 1 turn isn't fun for anyone unless you like being "that guy".

[Skreech Verminking]

14 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I'm still holding out hope that we see something in 2019. Regardless, we can do well if played correctly, which has been a major reason I am moving towards more bodies\mixed lists than pure Skryre. Everyone understands how Gautfyre works, and even if they don't, completely decimating an opponent in 1 turn isn't fun for anyone unless you like being "that guy".

Only on tournaments where most of the people are exactly “that Guy”😂

although I never really enjoyed playing a only  skyre army and  probably won’t be playing them at all anytime soon.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

Well yeah, but most tournament players know how to counter Gautfyre, so I would find it pointless most of the time.

I was very big on MSU elite armies after playing a full Eshin build one time with 120+ models, and that was my first few months of playing. The whole nitpicking of movement, piling in, etc really turned me off to the idea of playing more than 60+ models. With more experience, I have turned around and understand almost every army needs a couple of horde-y battlelines to stay competitive. 40-80 Clanrats mixed in to Skryre is great, but going all out like my previous teleporting shenanigans list I posted here seems great too.

[Malios]

G'day fellow warlords,

I've been eyeing off doing a Skaven army for a while and they would make a great, thematic foil to my future Ironjawz project both for being different on the table and different to paint. Granted I know they really need a battletome, or some form of alliance ability which has so far prevented me from jumping on the Horned Rat train, but ratmen who on average live for a decade tops, scheming to destroy the realms in the quickest and least thought out way possible all the while backstabbing those above and stomping on those below in the eternal race to the top of the chain really, really appeals. 

I've been watching this thread, as well as the previous skaven / verminous thread and I've noticed the general patterns tend to be ridiculous amounts of bodies with spears, a hero or three to support them and maybe an anchoring unit to punch or hold the battle line. I'm fully aware that options are limited thanks to allegiance restrictions etc. and the competitive meta, but considering my community isn't too competitive I don't have to squeeze every ounce out of units to perform their absolute maximum average. I thought I'd try something different.

The theme of the army would be based off two things: treacherous flying skaven fleets (a mix of Clan Skurvy with the tenacious backstabbing of Clan Treecherik) as the theme with as much plastic as possible rather then risking the older finecast kits. Having finishing a Horus Heresy project, I'm a little over using resin at the moment. 

Here's three proposed lists, all similar with the same core but slightly different:

List 1:

2000 points:

Grand Alliance: Chaos.

Allegiance: Chaos.

- Skaven Warlord. Warp Forged Blade and shield. Warlord. Malicious Conqueror. Crown of Conquest.

- Skreech Verminking

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Stormvermin. Halberds and shields

- 15 Gutter Runners

- Ratling Gun team

- Ratling Gun team

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Hell pit abomination

 

List 2:

2000 points:

Grand Alliance: Chaos.

Allegiance: Chaos.

- Skaven Warlord. Warp Forged Blade and shield. Warlord. Malicious Conqueror. Crown of Conquest.

- Verminlord Warbringer

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Stormvermin. Halberds and shields

- 20 Gutter Runners

- Warpgrinder Team

- Ratling Gun team

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Hell pit abomination

 

List 3:

2000 points:

Grand Alliance: Chaos.

Allegiance: Chaos.

- Skaven Warlord. Warp Forged Blade and shield. Warlord. Malicious Conqueror. Crown of Conquest.

- Skaven Warlord. Two blades. (I simply like the model)

- Grey Seer.

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Stormvermin. Halberds and shields

- 20 Gutter Runners

- Ratling Gun team

- Ratling Gun team

- Warpgrinder Team

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Hell pit abomination

Edited November 16, 2018 by Malios
Fixed the bad quotations. Apologies

[Skreech Verminking]

56 minutes ago, Malios said:

G'day fellow warlords,

I've been eyeing off doing a Skaven army for a while and they would make a great, thematic foil to my future Ironjawz project both for being different on the table and different to paint. Granted I know they really need a battletome, or some form of alliance ability which has so far prevented me from jumping on the Horned Rat train, but ratmen who on average live for a decade tops, scheming to destroy the realms in the quickest and least thought out way possible all the while backstabbing those above and stomping on those below in the eternal race to the top of the chain really, really appeals. 

I've been watching this thread, as well as the previous skaven / verminous thread and I've noticed the general patterns tend to be ridiculous amounts of bodies with spears, a hero or three to support them and maybe an anchoring unit to punch or hold the battle line. I'm fully aware that options are limited thanks to allegiance restrictions etc. and the competitive meta, but considering my community isn't too competitive I don't have to squeeze every ounce out of units to perform their absolute maximum average. I thought I'd try something different.

The theme of the army would be based off two things: treacherous flying skaven fleets (a mix of Clan Skurvy with the tenacious backstabbing of Clan Treecherik) as the theme with as much plastic as possible rather then risking the older finecast kits. Having finishing a Horus Heresy project, I'm a little over using resin at the moment. 

Here's three proposed lists, all similar with the same core but slightly different:

List 1:

2000 points:

Grand Alliance: Chaos.

Allegiance: Chaos.

- Skaven Warlord. Warp Forged Blade and shield. Warlord. Malicious Conqueror. Crown of Conquest.

- Skreech Verminking

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Stormvermin. Halberds and shields

- 15 Gutter Runners

- Ratling Gun team

- Ratling Gun team

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Hell pit abomination

 

List 2:

2000 points:

Grand Alliance: Chaos.

Allegiance: Chaos.

- Skaven Warlord. Warp Forged Blade and shield. Warlord. Malicious Conqueror. Crown of Conquest.

- Verminlord Warbringer

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Stormvermin. Halberds and shields

- 20 Gutter Runners

- Warpgrinder Team

- Ratling Gun team

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Hell pit abomination

 

List 3:

2000 points:

Grand Alliance: Chaos.

Allegiance: Chaos.

- Skaven Warlord. Warp Forged Blade and shield. Warlord. Malicious Conqueror. Crown of Conquest.

- Skaven Warlord. Two blades. (I simply like the model)

- Grey Seer.

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Clan Rats. Blades

- 20 Stormvermin. Halberds and shields

- 20 Gutter Runners

- Ratling Gun team

- Ratling Gun team

- Warpgrinder Team

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Warp Lightning Cannon

- Hell pit abomination

You lists look very interesting.

for a more fun approach all of your list can be well useful and fun to play against and with.

Still loosing with your lists will often be the case since all of your lists lack of body’s to protect your heavy shooting/hitters.

So yeah those lists are definitely something you could try out and the possibility of you and your opponent having fun will be high.

 

edit: and Welcome my friend, you have made the right choice in joining our forces.

Yes-yes the time has come,

soon we will kill-slay all things and take-steal their city-burrows 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Skreech Verminking