AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Calypso2ts]

I like where you are going with the list, but I think you need another Battleline unit (Kairics and Tzaangors are only two and you need 3 at 2000)

If you want to keep it trim, I would lose the changeling and the Herald for a unit of Pinks and then add 3 more Enlightened to that unit.  That should work for points and I think it leaves an extra 20 for an endless spell.

Recommend Arcane Sacrifice for the Summoner as General (bring the variety with familiars I made some out of Nurglings actually) and I really like Wellspring of Arcane Might on the LoC - rerolling 1's on casting helps quite a bit in my experience..  For kit I have used the Sword and Sceptre on the LoC - the Sceptre is probably better since the LoC if really there to throw out 6 Mortal Wounds a turn as a caster.

For spells I would do Fold Reality on the Shaman, I like Bolt on the Pinks or .  Give the LoC Inferno for additional single target MW production. He is so efficient with DD as a caster, I tend to load him up with high cost spells.  There are mixed recommendations on the Gaunt, I like Glimpse.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

How about this whacky army list for endless spells:

Battalion: Overseer's Fatetwisters

Lord of Change/ Wellspring of Arcane Might/Unchecked Mutation

Herald on Burning Chariot (GENERAL)/ Arch Sorcerer/ Staff of Change/ Aura of Mutability/ Treason of Tzeentch

Herald on Disc/ Staff/ Bolt of Change

Herald on Foot/ Staff/ Arcane Transformation

The Blue Scribes/ Tzeentch's Firestorm

 

1 Exalted Flamer

3x1 Burning Chariots (BATTLELINE w Herald on Chariot as General)

Then the Endless Spells, might change these up a bit...

Geminids

Ravenak's Jaws

Burning Head

Pendulum

Shackles

Cogs

Balewind Vortex

 

While half as many wounds as I 'd usually take, I like that the whole thing drops at once almost guaranteeing first turn, which almost guarantees five of the Endless Spells to get off, as the Lord of Change can flip the dice to the highest and use a Destiny Dice to make one of those a 6.  Also the Heralds can use their 3 dice casting roll to do them and make it hard to unbind, and the Wellspring rerolls 1s for casting rolls within 9" I think?  Something like that. 

The Blue Scribes can do his thing on a 2+ and a spell goes off with a 9, and if I remember correctly the Lord of Change has a Command Ability to add 1 to Tzeentchy casting rolls within a certain distance of him?  Then if anyone is in range the extra spells can be all mortal woundy types.   The battalion also generates an extra Destiny Dice per hero phase and can replace or reroll one per hero phase too.  

And maybe, just maybe, by Turn 2 there could be enough Fate Points generated to summon something like Screamers, over even  Flamers!  I like the shootyness of the chariots for at least a turn or maybe 2.  Probably not super competitive but sure would be fun and nutso magickal!

 

 

 

[mmimzie]

13 hours ago, Mhexin said:

Hi Guys,

 

Could i have some feedback from this list please? I'm a bit of a noob at the moment. 

 

I'm battling my friend quite a bit with him as Nurgle (Demons mostly) and hoping this would be enough to give me a good chance of winning.

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Gaunt Summoner (180)

Herald of Tzeentch (140)

Tzaangor Shaman(180)
Lord Of Change (380)
The Changeling (200)

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
20 x Tzaangors (180)

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)

6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on discs (280)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400

Any suggestions on spells/artifacts to take would be cool too. Thanks for looking.

Hey make sure you have 3 battle line as said above. Either go 9 skyfyres nad have what is basicly auto cast tzneetch's fire storm+ or run 9 enlghtend on disc for a big smashy unit. 

6 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

How about this whacky army list for endless spells:

Battalion: Overseer's Fatetwisters

Lord of Change/ Wellspring of Arcane Might/Unchecked Mutation

Herald on Burning Chariot (GENERAL)/ Arch Sorcerer/ Staff of Change/ Aura of Mutability/ Treason of Tzeentch

Herald on Disc/ Staff/ Bolt of Change

Herald on Foot/ Staff/ Arcane Transformation

The Blue Scribes/ Tzeentch's Firestorm

 

1 Exalted Flamer

3x1 Burning Chariots (BATTLELINE w Herald on Chariot as General)

Then the Endless Spells, might change these up a bit...

Geminids

Ravenak's Jaws

Burning Head

Pendulum

Shackles

Cogs

Balewind Vortex

 

While half as many wounds as I 'd usually take, I like that the whole thing drops at once almost guaranteeing first turn, which almost guarantees five of the Endless Spells to get off, as the Lord of Change can flip the dice to the highest and use a Destiny Dice to make one of those a 6.  Also the Heralds can use their 3 dice casting roll to do them and make it hard to unbind, and the Wellspring rerolls 1s for casting rolls within 9" I think?  Something like that. 

The Blue Scribes can do his thing on a 2+ and a spell goes off with a 9, and if I remember correctly the Lord of Change has a Command Ability to add 1 to Tzeentchy casting rolls within a certain distance of him?  Then if anyone is in range the extra spells can be all mortal woundy types.   The battalion also generates an extra Destiny Dice per hero phase and can replace or reroll one per hero phase too.  

And maybe, just maybe, by Turn 2 there could be enough Fate Points generated to summon something like Screamers, over even  Flamers!  I like the shootyness of the chariots for at least a turn or maybe 2.  Probably not super competitive but sure would be fun and nutso magickal!

 

 

Going first and the endless spells don't really mix so much as msot of them are quite very close range and you can't modify the range of endless spells only get yourself closer making launching the things abit annoying.  The best endless spell using list i'd say is kind of maybe change host?? as you can get double doubt out of the endless spells allowing you to both sac you horrors and thus summon faster and farm value, while also arming all your horrors with more deadly spells so they can do more serious gamage. 

Overseers is weird Its powerful, but you'll struggle to get enough stuff to take advantage of the destiny dice. So it's a toughy. 

[Kharneth]

After getting absolutely wrecked by my friend's Slaves to Darkness Maggotkin I grabbed some Tzaangors and completely changed my list. Mortal wound spam wasn't working at all against my foe's 5+/6+ MW saves. 

I used 2x10 Tzaangors, 9 Enlightened on discs, and a Shaman and it worked quite well (he conceded at the beginning of turn 3 after losing 2 heroes, 10 warriors, and 5 knights). When I fought my other friend's Sylvaneth army with this same list I was decimated. I need either rend -2 or mortal wounds to defeat some of his very hardy units. His treelord had a 2+ rerollable armor save that ignored my -1 rend. I imagine the LoC with Infernal gateway and the sword could do a lot better in this situation than my tzaangors. 

I'd like to combine the daemonic forces and tzaangors for my 1,000 point list for a tournament. I would prefer to not have a specific list for each of my enemies (because my enemies are my friends) and I fear this sort of planning will be problematic when my friends start experimenting and alternating their lists and strategies. 

With these thoughts in mind, my first instinct is to swap out my acolytes for tzaangors:

180 - Gaunt Summoner - Arcane Sacrifice, Arcane Suggestion

380 - Lord of Change - Gryph-Feather Charm, Bolt of Tzeentch

180 - 10 Tzaangors - 4 greatblades, 4 paired blades, 1 mutant,1 shield, 1 hornblower, 1 icon bearer

200 - 10 Pink Horrors - Unchecked Mutation

940

40 - Aethervoid Pendulum

I've stopped taking Quicksilver Swords because once I rolled 0 5+s and I also sometimes win initiative and in these instances the Swords becomes dangerous whereas the Pendulum is much more easily controlled. 

[mmimzie]

23 hours ago, Kharneth said:

After getting absolutely wrecked by my friend's Slaves to Darkness Maggotkin I grabbed some Tzaangors and completely changed my list. Mortal wound spam wasn't working at all against my foe's 5+/6+ MW saves. 

I used 2x10 Tzaangors, 9 Enlightened on discs, and a Shaman and it worked quite well (he conceded at the beginning of turn 3 after losing 2 heroes, 10 warriors, and 5 knights). When I fought my other friend's Sylvaneth army with this same list I was decimated. I need either rend -2 or mortal wounds to defeat some of his very hardy units. His treelord had a 2+ rerollable armor save that ignored my -1 rend. I imagine the LoC with Infernal gateway and the sword could do a lot better in this situation than my tzaangors. 

I'd like to combine the daemonic forces and tzaangors for my 1,000 point list for a tournament. I would prefer to not have a specific list for each of my enemies (because my enemies are my friends) and I fear this sort of planning will be problematic when my friends start experimenting and alternating their lists and strategies. 

With these thoughts in mind, my first instinct is to swap out my acolytes for tzaangors:

180 - Gaunt Summoner - Arcane Sacrifice, Arcane Suggestion

380 - Lord of Change - Gryph-Feather Charm, Bolt of Tzeentch

180 - 10 Tzaangors - 4 greatblades, 4 paired blades, 1 mutant,1 shield, 1 hornblower, 1 icon bearer

200 - 10 Pink Horrors - Unchecked Mutation

940

40 - Aethervoid Pendulum

I've stopped taking Quicksilver Swords because once I rolled 0 5+s and I also sometimes win initiative and in these instances the Swords becomes dangerous whereas the Pendulum is much more easily controlled. 

Yeah i like both those thoughts. I wonder though. Why not 2 units of pinks??i think the tzaangors are kind of meh they are a little fighty, but i don't value alittle fighty. Its either alot of punch to where you put them into a unit, and it dies; or you have precision where you can target down heros and other key units. 

 

On your planned list deal. Yeah mortal woulds are bit weaker against nurgle, while enlightend are abit weaker against legions of nagash. Ever list will have a weakness. 

 

If you are dead set on combining maybe try:

Magister

10xpink (fold reality)

10xpink (fold also, or unchecked)

9x enlightend

Pendulum

1k pts

 

Thing is with this list your are running around with a big hammer. It's pretty take all comers, but i think LoN would be a tough game. New goblund would be tough. Any super horde regenersting army will be a struggle.  As with out those precision tools to remove summoners, you'll find that your enlightend smash something only to get smashed right back. 

[marke]

Doesn't it bother anyone else the sheer amount of models you need when taking multiple pink units? There's always 20+20 models to be assembled, cleaned, puttied, based and painted in addition to every 10 pinks..

I get their gameplay benefit, but this just has to be a factor for someone else as well :D?

[Xasto]

Going to a tournament tomorrow, thinking of 2 different lists atm, anyone would like to share which they think would perform better? Thanks

Demons tzeentch.pdf

Tzaangor Coven 2.0.pdf

[mmimzie]

21 minutes ago, marke said:

Doesn't it bother anyone else the sheer amount of models you need when taking multiple pink units? There's always 20+20 models to be assembled, cleaned, puttied, based and painted in addition to every 10 pinks..

I get their gameplay benefit, but this just has to be a factor for someone else as well :D?

I agree and disagree. 

 

I think building and paint lots of models is a bunch of work. Specially to the level of detail i am aiming for. Heck i still have over a like 80 more blue or brims to complete, and don't get me started on basing. 

 

That said its the most realistic tournament horde army to play. 

 

Appart from deployment and summoning you really dont have to move much, and all you really need to do is roll some quick shooting attack and resolve some spells. Maybe tie something up with a dummy charge.

 

So alittle of A, and alittle of B. Heck the building/painting is why i haveny really explored multitudious horde all that much.

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, Xasto said:

Going to a tournament tomorrow, thinking of 2 different lists atm, anyone would like to share which they think would perform better? Thanks

Demons tzeentch.pdf

Tzaangor Coven 2.0.pdf

I like the first one. Id drop yhe endless spells for a damage endless spell to kill your pinks. Id also find room for 9 skyfryes as you want enough to hit hard enough to matter. 

 

 

[Xasto]

50 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

I like the first one. Id drop yhe endless spells for a damage endless spell to kill your pinks. Id also find room for 9 skyfryes as you want enough to hit hard enough to matter. 

 

 

I sadly do not have many blue and brimstone horrors yet, so trying to flood the board with them would be tough, if that's what killing your own pink horrors is for (if I understand this correctly)

[newsun]

1 hour ago, Xasto said:

I sadly do not have many blue and brimstone horrors yet, so trying to flood the board with them would be tough, if that's what killing your own pink horrors is for (if I understand this correctly)

If you are not playing blues and brims why bring horrors over acolytes, Tzaangors, or warriors?

[Kharneth]

7 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Yeah i like both those thoughts. I wonder though. Why not 2 units of pinks??i think the tzaangors are kind of meh they are a little fighty, but i don't value alittle fighty. Its either alot of punch to where you put them into a unit, and it dies; or you have precision where you can target down heros and other key units. 

 

On your planned list deal. Yeah mortal woulds are bit weaker against nurgle, while enlightend are abit weaker against legions of nagash. Ever list will have a weakness. 

 

If you are dead set on combining maybe try:

Magister

10xpink (fold reality)

10xpink (fold also, or unchecked)

9x enlightend

Pendulum

1k pts

 

Thing is with this list your are running around with a big hammer. It's pretty take all comers, but i think LoN would be a tough game. New goblund would be tough. Any super horde regenersting army will be a struggle.  As with out those precision tools to remove summoners, you'll find that your enlightend smash something only to get smashed right back. 

I've considered running with 2 units of pink horrors with the LoC and summoner, but I get worried about not having enough to protect my casters with. I haven't bothered to try it because I only had 10 pink horrors, but I've got 20 to build so I might try that out.

 

My thinking about replacing the acolytes with tzaangors is that they'll actually do something. The acolytes just die, but the tzaangors are a formidable wall that can hit back well for a battleline. They're not very powerful and a single unit of 10 won't be a big threat, but with 5 spells, summoning, and some ranged attacks I keep the enemy on the offensive. My LoC is very okay in melee, by himself he can't take on much but with the tzaangors nearby they can be used to take out something nice I'm hoping. The gaunt summoner will stand 3" away from the pink horrors on an objective while the tzaangors stay within 12" protecting them and getting buffed because he is an arcanite hero. 

I don't actually have a magistre, but how useful is having 20 pink horrors with a single footslogging character? 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Kharneth

[mmimzie]

9 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

I've considered running with 2 units of pink horrors with the LoC and summoner, but I get worried about not having enough to protect my casters with. I haven't bothered to try it because I only had 10 pink horrors, but I've got 20 to build so I might try that out.

 

My thinking about replacing the acolytes with tzaangors is that they'll actually do something. The acolytes just die, but the tzaangors are a formidable wall that can hit back well for a battleline. They're not very powerful and a single unit of 10 won't be a big threat, but with 5 spells, summoning, and some ranged attacks I keep the enemy on the offensive. My LoC is very okay in melee, by himself he can't take on much but with the tzaangors nearby they can be used to take out something nice I'm hoping. The gaunt summoner will stand 3" away from the pink horrors on an objective while the tzaangors stay within 12" protecting them and getting buffed because he is an arcanite hero. 

I don't actually have a magistre, but how useful is having 20 pink horrors with a single footslogging character? 

The hero is certainly slow you could definitely bring a herald on disc as a different cheap her, but he's useless otherwise. So its either a strong hero in the magister or a useless on e that is fast and can summon far off. 

 

The point of acolytes is to die. Thats why you take them. They die so others dont have to. They are also very cheap. The tzaangors can be good but it depends on your local meta. If 5hey are bring big bad killy units those tzaangors will just be expensive acolytes. 

 

Basicly is 9 enlightend charge 10 tzaangors, the 10 tzaangors are dead. Alternatively if they are charging 10 acolytes.... they are also dead. The difference being with the acolytes atleast you have 100pts of other stuff when you bring the acolytes. 

 

LoC wise mine is never in combat, and the 1 game he was i lost lol. 

[Drew64]

I'm hoping i can get some advice on list building, as im pretty lost on tzeentch in AoS2.
I got into Tzeentch from Silver Tower, and then picked up the battleforce, so my unit pool isnt huge so far, and hoping I can get something semi viable without essentially buying a new army.
 

Here's what i have so far, with 270 points to play with.

Quote

Allegiance: Tzeentch
LEADERS
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
Gaunt Summoner  + Familiars (180)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
UNITS M S W B
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened (100)
BATTALIONS
Tzaangor Coven (110)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
TOTAL: 1730/2000

Would like to stick with the tzaangor coven as a base, as i really like tzaangors.

Options i've thought of:

• Could add an un-marked warshrine as an ally for rerolls of ones on hit/wound
  • But that's likely putting too much investment for one unit.
• Remove 3 skyfires, add in a lord of change.
  • Maybe 90 points of...endless spells?
• Add another 10 tzaangor, and a great bray shaman as ally
  • I like the idea of devolving a unit for a counter-charge.
• Remove 3 skyfires; add 10/20 acolytes to each unit, 3 more enlightened on foot - wytchfire coven.
  • Army becomes 4 drop.
  • could have a unit of 10 + 40 acolytes, with 10 man group being a screen
    • Could buy another spell or similar with the big unit saving.

 

Open to any suggestions, hoping to get this army on the table!

#Note:

I converted the enlightened on foot, and built the skyfires when they were the hotness - I could probably rebase the enlightened onto disks if needed.

[Xasto]

2 hours ago, newsun said:

If you are not playing blues and brims why bring horrors over acolytes, Tzaangors, or warriors?

I don't know that's why I'm asking for advice my dude

[MrRoff]

So, how do you stop an opponent who can cast +10 spells/turn with his army, and summon in units with 10 faith points?
Almost seems impossible

Edited January 5, 2019 by MrRoff

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, Xasto said:

I don't know that's why I'm asking for advice my dude

The real answer is they are kind of not worth it if you aren't bringing without the blue/brim back up. Pinks are a value unit all about letting you artificially have more points in a game than you should.  They are a a bit over costed for what they are, but a tiny bit of effort and they because very high value. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Drew64 said:

I'm hoping i can get some advice on list building, as im pretty lost on tzeentch in AoS2.
I got into Tzeentch from Silver Tower, and then picked up the battleforce, so my unit pool isnt huge so far, and hoping I can get something semi viable without essentially buying a new army.
 

Here's what i have so far, with 270 points to play with.

Would like to stick with the tzaangor coven as a base, as i really like tzaangors.

Options i've thought of:

• Could add an un-marked warshrine as an ally for rerolls of ones on hit/wound
  • But that's likely putting too much investment for one unit.
• Remove 3 skyfires, add in a lord of change.
  • Maybe 90 points of...endless spells?
• Add another 10 tzaangor, and a great bray shaman as ally
  • I like the idea of devolving a unit for a counter-charge.
• Remove 3 skyfires; add 10/20 acolytes to each unit, 3 more enlightened on foot - wytchfire coven.
  • Army becomes 4 drop.
  • could have a unit of 10 + 40 acolytes, with 10 man group being a screen
    • Could buy another spell or similar with the big unit saving.

 

Open to any suggestions, hoping to get this army on the table!

#Note:

I converted the enlightened on foot, and built the skyfires when they were the hotness - I could probably rebase the enlightened onto disks if needed.

I know you want to stick with the tzaangor coven, i'd say keep the units but drop the battalion.  Use the rest of the points to either boost one or both enlightend/skyfyres to 9 man units or to do the previous and make them on disc.

Is the gaunt summoner your general?? with out LoC you are going to definitely want him to be with arcane sacrifice so you can make his spell more reliable. Otherwise i'd drop him as hard casting a 7+ (factoring the already +1 to cast) isn't worth the effort in my opinion. Similar might be true for the ogroid, a chaos lord might be pretty cool as his buff is amazing with a great casting value. 

[mmimzie]

3 hours ago, MrRoff said:

So, how do you stop an opponent who can cast +10 spells/turn with his army, and summon in units with 10 faith points?
Almost seems impossible

unbind 1 spell and he can't bring anything in. Fate pt summoning is one of the weakest mechanics in the game. Namely because there are only so many spells and only so many benefits to cast you can get. Out side of pink who get +2 to cast with LoC help, and LoC, and a Gaunt summoner who gets +2 with LoC help and throws 2 spells for cheap. You start getting taxed quickly.

Out side of the actual value of fate pt summoning. Theres the power of pink horror milling. Now that is some good value and very fast, for one spell you can get 3.5x2x#pink horror units worth of blue horror pts. Then get a bunch of free battle shock rolls to try to get more free pinks.  To stop this it's about board control. Fast armies that can get on an enemy unit turn 1 are where it's at.  Charging and locking down the table can very quickly and easily hamper summoning.  In this case the most dangerous summoning army DoT can muster is Multi-horde. 

While this army has numbers the punch is rather muted and it's punch is only as strong as the endless spells you manage to cram into the list. Which compared to witch elves/enlightend/morrsarr/evocators just isn't enough damage out put to be reliable.  As such a rather tanky or hrode army that can also move quickly will win on objectives alone.

[MrRoff]

8 hours ago, mmimzie said:

unbind 1 spell and he can't bring anything in. Fate pt summoning is one of the weakest mechanics in the game. Namely because there are only so many spells and only so many benefits to cast you can get. Out side of pink who get +2 to cast with LoC help, and LoC, and a Gaunt summoner who gets +2 with LoC help and throws 2 spells for cheap. You start getting taxed quickly.

Out side of the actual value of fate pt summoning. Theres the power of pink horror milling. Now that is some good value and very fast, for one spell you can get 3.5x2x#pink horror units worth of blue horror pts. Then get a bunch of free battle shock rolls to try to get more free pinks.  To stop this it's about board control. Fast armies that can get on an enemy unit turn 1 are where it's at.  Charging and locking down the table can very quickly and easily hamper summoning.  In this case the most dangerous summoning army DoT can muster is Multi-horde. 

While this army has numbers the punch is rather muted and it's punch is only as strong as the endless spells you manage to cram into the list. Which compared to witch elves/enlightend/morrsarr/evocators just isn't enough damage out put to be reliable.  As such a rather tanky or hrode army that can also move quickly will win on objectives alone.

He currently has an LoC and a tzangoor shaman on disk and a curseling , and he's planing on buying some more wizards to get some battalion to get more spells and so on. 

The army is mostly tzangoors and they hit way to hard, they have like 4-5 attacks each with an +3+2~ when they are near an acolyte hero and yadayada, they seem really strong for the price and points? 

Currently in our group of about 9 people he have only lost 1 game, and that was before he got the LoC. 

The only one who has a chance is me with my GHoN death army, even then all the spells and attacks really hurt, and theres almost no way to get to his wizards, he just turtle them up behind his 30 tzangoors and acolytes... 

 

 

Oh, and how is summoning a new unit of 3 tzangoors enlighted on disk or skyfires bad? That's 12wounds and a lot of attacks you could get to summon in at round 2/3

Edited January 5, 2019 by MrRoff

[mmimzie]

58 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

Oh, and how is summoning a new unit of 3 tzangoors enlighted on disk or skyfires bad? That's 12wounds and a lot of attacks you could get to summon in at round 2/3

This specifically is beast of chaos. You can get both DoT summoning and BoC summoning. 

As for the rest of your post. I can't tell you have to beat every kind of DoT list you can make. Give a battle report for better advice and what list you or your friends are using. 

 

The tzaangors on foot do hit hard, but like many other 32mm base sized units can only get about a max of 10 into combat. If hes baying 3 times the price for those 10 models attack you should do well of you play right and bring the tools to succeed. Any good hammer unit would just crish that 30 tzaangor block. Maybe not in a single turn, but 9 enlightend, 30 witch aevles (these could do it in a turn maybe), 20 evocators, 6-9 morrsarr guard, or qny other bug smashy unit your army has access too.  All of the above can eqsily kill 15+ models, and lose a relaticely small about on the counter swing. Each of those also cost quite a bit less than their target. 

 

Edit:

Also this game does have a skill element. I'm not saying your bad. I'm just daying your friend might also just be better at the game and he might be able to win with any competent list. A battle report with lists would be the best way to get help. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by mmimzie

[MrRoff]

5 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

This specifically is beast of chaos. You can get both DoT summoning and BoC summoning. 

As for the rest of your post. I can't tell you have to beat every kind of DoT list you can make. Give a battle report for better advice and what list you or your friends are using. 

 

The tzaangors on foot do hit hard, but like many other 32mm base sized units can only get about a max of 10 into combat. If hes baying 3 times the price for those 10 models attack you should do well of you play right and bring the tools to succeed. Any good hammer unit would just crish that 30 tzaangor block. Maybe not in a single turn, but 9 enlightend, 30 witch aevles (these could do it in a turn maybe), 20 evocators, 6-9 morrsarr guard, or qny other bug smashy unit your army has access too.  All of the above can eqsily kill 15+ models, and lose a relaticely small about on the counter swing. Each of those also cost quite a bit less than their target. 

 

Edit:

Also this game does have a skill element. I'm not saying your bad. I'm just daying your friend might also just be better at the game and he might be able to win with any competent list. A battle report with lists would be the best way to get help. 

Thanks for the help! 

No offense taken! 

I've won 80+% of my games but that tzeentch player just gets me, I'm playing death, mostly nighthaunt and I don't really have a hard hitting unit like witchelves. 

He's playing the Dot alligence, with the faith points, are you saying that he can summon in units from both or? 

I still think that 10fp is cheap for such a unit like tzangoors on disks 

Gonna send both our full lists later when I get home! 

Thanks you for taking your time to help! 

[Kharneth]

 

17 hours ago, mmimzie said:

The hero is certainly slow you could definitely bring a herald on disc as a different cheap her, but he's useless otherwise. So its either a strong hero in the magister or a useless on e that is fast and can summon far off. 

 

The point of acolytes is to die. Thats why you take them. They die so others dont have to. They are also very cheap. The tzaangors can be good but it depends on your local meta. If 5hey are bring big bad killy units those tzaangors will just be expensive acolytes. 

 

Basicly is 9 enlightend charge 10 tzaangors, the 10 tzaangors are dead. Alternatively if they are charging 10 acolytes.... they are also dead. The difference being with the acolytes atleast you have 100pts of other stuff when you bring the acolytes. 

 

LoC wise mine is never in combat, and the 1 game he was i lost lol. 

I've used my LoC to combat a Magmadroth, which was a bad idea. I dropped him to 3 wounds left in the hero phase so I was safe from his magma blood by the combat phase. I figured I could inflict 3 wounds with the sword no problem, but I should've used destiny dice because I wiffed my attacks and ended up using 5 5+ DD to save against the 10 wounds that were inflicted on him. In other cases, though, I've charged Chaos Knights & Warriors, SCE Gryph-hounds, and flesh eater courts ghouls with the LoC and all of these were extremely successful. What I've found is, enemies will charge my acolytes and sometimes a couple will remain. I'll use my DD of 2s for bravery because 2s are worthless for all else. So, with a couple acolytes keeping the unit stuck and no one close enough to counter-charge my LoC because I can see the success of my magic phase before I move or charge, I've been able to save the acolytes that survive on turn 1 or 2. It has been quite helpful and I'm hoping that a unit of Tzaangors will make these situations more prevalent. I also find that sometimes my placement of acolytes or blue horrors quickens my enemy's advance up the board. Usually this happens when I advance with the acolytes to get on an objective or I summon blue horrors onto an objective - the enemy gets to the middle of the board sooner due to charges and ends up in my face very early on even when they are slow armies. 

[Drew64]

14 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I know you want to stick with the tzaangor coven, i'd say keep the units but drop the battalion.  Use the rest of the points to either boost one or both enlightend/skyfyres to 9 man units or to do the previous and make them on disc.

Is the gaunt summoner your general?? with out LoC you are going to definitely want him to be with arcane sacrifice so you can make his spell more reliable. Otherwise i'd drop him as hard casting a 7+ (factoring the already +1 to cast) isn't worth the effort in my opinion. Similar might be true for the ogroid, a chaos lord might be pretty cool as his buff is amazing with a great casting value. 

Is the  "pile in and fight inthe hero phase" from the battallion not as silly as it sounds?

Or is it a case of I'd be expecting to not be tied in combat with the same unit for multiple turns?

 

I'd assumed the Summoner would be my General, but im still catching up with AoS2 and realm artifacts etc. so hadn't settled on what i'd give him.

He was intended to be my anti horde, relying on Destiny dice to cast it (initialy with balewind/spell portal for range) is this no longer as viable in AoS2?

You're right about the Ogroid, he's almost entirely there because i like the model, and is my best painted unit. (not solid reasoning!)

I guess in my list above i could just remove the Ogroid, but in a LoC, and a spell portal? probably not the strongest list, but is an option.

Will definitely play around with your other suggestions, thanks!

[mmimzie]

7 hours ago, MrRoff said:

Thanks for the help! 

No offense taken! 

I've won 80+% of my games but that tzeentch player just gets me, I'm playing death, mostly nighthaunt and I don't really have a hard hitting unit like witchelves. 

He's playing the Dot alligence, with the faith points, are you saying that he can summon in units from both or? 

I still think that 10fp is cheap for such a unit like tzangoors on disks 

Gonna send both our full lists later when I get home! 

Thanks you for taking your time to help! 

The summones are tied to the allegiance ability. So if you run DoT you can use fate pt to summon or use the beast of chaos summoning. 

 

DoT can not summon enlightened only , the full daemon units.

 

While beast of chaos can not summon daemons units, only beast of chaos units via the herd stone.

 

So if he is, he's cheating, knows something i dont, or is mistaken. 

 

Ill post replys abit later when in less busy.

[Lord Krungharr]

Has anyone used the Changeling to good effect?  Halving an enemy's movement is hardly worth 200 points.  But I was thinking about using him to redeploy and unleash the Purple Sun of Shyish with some Destiny Dice to make it hard to unbind.   Or is some other Endless Spell better for that type of trickstering?