AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Superninja]

I have  a few questions about the ironfist d6 movement.

Do we roll for 1 unit and then move that unit before rolling for other? this is how I have done it.

The Faq states that we can move within 3 inches of a unit.

 

Spoiler

 

Q: Some abilities allow a model to make a move out of sequence

(in the hero phase, for example), or to make a specific type of

move (a ‘6" retreat move’, for example). Can I run when I make

these moves?

A: You can only run if the ability refers to making

a ‘normal move’ (which includes any move made

‘as if it were the movement phase’) and the ability

doesn’t specify the distance of the move. Note that the

restrictions that apply to normal moves (not moving

within 3" of the enemy, and having to retreat if they

start within 3" of the enemy) also apply to normal moves

made in any other phase. However, these restrictions do

not apply to any other sort of move.

So, for example, if the ability said ‘This unit can make

  a normal move’ the unit could run and could not move

within 3" of the enemy unless it retreats, and if it said

‘This unit can move D6".’ then it could not run but could

move within 3" of the enemy.

 

This movement within 3 inches, is that for just moving in? Or can we move away without retreating as well?  It seems like we can but I am not sure if this is correct.  While already in 3inches, can we just adjust our figs while staying close to the closest fig? Or can we actually move the d6 as we would like, away from closest unit and toward whatever we want? 

What exactly can be done with this move? What cannot? That is what I want to know for sure.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Superninja

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Superninja said:

I have  a few questions about the ironfist d6 movement.

Do we roll for 1 unit and then move that unit before rolling for other? this is how I have done it.

Technically yes, most of the time your opponent won't be to strict on it but occasionally they will. My personal rule is that I will roll them in the order I would move them and then unless it has an impact in the hero phase I add it onto the movement phase. Most notably if you have one unit, which rolls a 6, behind another that rolls a 1 then I will either move that 1" then the 6" as it's going to conflict or I just say to my opponent "I'm going to treat the 6" like a 1/2 since I wouldn't be able to make use of the extra distance."

As to the wording of it. I made this exact mistake a while ago for I imagine the same reasons as you. The key point is this bit.

1 hour ago, Superninja said:

(which includes any move made 'as if it were the movement phase’)

Quote

Roll separately for each unit, and then make it's move in the same manner as a move in the movement phase, except that unit cannot run.

It shows just how ancient our rules actually are that we don't even use the old standardised wording. Ours comes from a time before standardised terms!

[broche]

so we can move within 3'' with ironfist? if yes it's just suddenly become a lot better 

@Andrew G it's true that we do have 2 edges over DoK: Gorefist and Ardfist. DoK can't really alpha strike neither can they bring back model

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by broche

[Superninja]

So what do we make of the last line? nothing?

‘This unit can move D6".’ then it could not run but could

move within 3" of the enemy. 

[Malakree]

No, because the ironfist says "in the same manner as move in the movement phase" it means the move is a normal move. As such it has all the same restrictions as any other normal move.

So if you roll a 3+ then yes you can move away from an enemy however it would count as a retreat move in every sense of the word.

[BobbyB]

I may have bought a balewind and weirdnob yesterday after reading your chrimbobo write up😁

[broche]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

No, because the ironfist says "in the same manner as move in the movement phase" it means the move is a normal move. As such it has all the same restrictions as any other normal move.

So if you roll a 3+ then yes you can move away from an enemy however it would count as a retreat move in every sense of the word.

it's sad, would have make the batallion more usefull... a d6'' unrestrestricted pile in would have been nice.

[Oreaper84]

The Ironfist wording has shown its age to be true. I find that with most clarifications i have to remember how GW writes rules. They write in an allowance based rule set and in a restrictive based....ie they will tell you what you CAN do and if its not listed then you CANT. Like it or not that is how they always have written rules. Now in the case of the FAQ they have now specifically said you CAN move within 3" , but have not said you can move away without counting as retreating. To this end ...even if it seems like it makes sense we would need a specific allowance to receive a non-retreat benefit.

Now personally i don't like the allowance to move within 3 because its a unique case that isn't consistent....but that's not my call to make.....so it shall be written so it shall be done.

[Kordan]

Quick question about Ardboys. I am looking to build a unit of 30, but I am not sure how I should load them out. I was thinking about this.

- 1 Orruk Banner & 1 Icon of Gork - Both would count as having Big Choppas, also they give both their bonuses.
- 2 Drummers - Both would count as having Choppas and Smashas, the charge bonuses don't stack but I like the symmetry.
- 13 Choppas and Smashas - One would be a leader.
- 13 Big Choppas - One would be a leader.

They will be supported by a Weirdnob Shaman with the Boss Skewer and several Warchanters. I want the ability to switch weapons depending on the army I face. Example being, rend is useless on ethereal enemies but really great on high armored enemies. I want the Ardoys to be a tar pit that can also wreck face so I don't think the shields are worth it but I could be persuaded.

Thanks for your time.

[ShaneHobbes]

@Malakree

Oh man I forgot all about doom divers. I've been using spear chukas a lot, I love those things, but I forgot about the unmodified 4+ rule for doom divers. What do you think of this:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

War Machines
Doom Diver Catapult (120)
- Allies
Doom Diver Catapult (120)
- Allies
Doom Diver Catapult (120)
- Allies

Battalions
Weirdfist (180)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2500 / 2500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 360 / 500
Wounds: 185
 

It's a lot of warchanters but again, Nurgle, plus I need 12 Ironjaw units to get 3 Allies and warchanters are cheap.

Sidenote: I think the one thing I want more than anything for IJ is our buffs to last till next hero phase, ugh.

Question(s) is: Should I go with 2 Doom Divers instead? I could fit more into the battalion that way, less drops. Or even use a fungoid for my 3rd allie. I also could have gone 3 Brutes and 1 Grunta but I like the idea of Gruntas supporting the maw krusha. 

I liked the idea of a weirdknob weirdfist with balewind with 3 doomdivers wrecking back lines. Protecting the doomdivers against my eventual game against stormcast and every other army that can summon will be a pain though.

Always appreciate the advice you veterans of the Waaagh give, thank you.

[Malakree]

35 minutes ago, Kordan said:

- 1 Orruk Banner & 1 Icon of Gork - Both would count as having Big Choppas, also they give both their bonuses.

At least 2 of each. It stops things like the Aleguzzler from just removing your banner and giving you -2 bravery.

[Kordan]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

At least 2 of each. It stops things like the Aleguzzler from just removing your banner and giving you -2 bravery.

Good point did not think of that. Thanks!

[broche]

Anyone tried the Zarbag Gitz as allies? for 160 pts you get your wizard (potent but fragile), a cheap effective screen with 1 fanatics as bonus. Pining 30 fury or 20 sequitor on your opponents turn is potentially game winning. Tougth?

[Mayple]

19 hours ago, broche said:

Anyone tried the Zarbag Gitz as allies? for 160 pts you get your wizard (potent but fragile), a cheap effective screen with 1 fanatics as bonus. Pining 30 fury or 20 sequitor on your opponents turn is potentially game winning. Tougth?

Been using it in my moonclan setup. I think it'd be a really solid Ironjawz ally setup, since you get a very useful wizard, a few low-threat bodies for holding onto your own objective/sacrificial bubblewrap, and the insanely useful 1-man charge denier in the form of the single fanatic. Definitely useful for preventing getting alpha striked in melee. Although deepstriking stormcast ballista will still be dangerous

[broche]

 

3 hours ago, Mayple said:

I think it'd be a really solid Ironjawz ally setup, since you get a very useful wizard, a few low-threat bodies for holding onto your own objective/sacrificial bubblewrap, and the insanely useful 1-man charge denier in the form of the single fanatic.

Thanks for the feedback! Will definitly try them. One of the problem with IJ is the lack of cheap chaff. Gruntas/ardboys are not bad as screen, but they cost a lot and have decent hitting power, so you don't necessarly want to loose them for free. Ironskullz boys can fill that role as well, but you can only take them once, and it's just 4 models (so at best a 8'' screen). Git are a 13'' wide screen plus  a fanatics, much more efficient!

[Nogginnocker]

On 11/29/2018 at 12:57 PM, ShaneHobbes said:

It's a lot of warchanters but again, Nurgle, plus I need 12 Ironjaw units to get 3 Allies and warchanters are cheap.

You would only need 9 Ironjawz units for your 3 ally units because allies are one out of every four units. 

[PUFNSTUF]

Can triple MawKrusha and boars be competitive?

[ShaneHobbes]

4 hours ago, Nogginnocker said:

You would only need 9 Ironjawz units for your 3 ally units because allies are one out of every four units. 

Well ******, you're right. I've been handicapping myself. Ugh.

[Nogginnocker]

No worries, though. It gets easier from here. LOL. I did the same for quite a while before realizing it myself.  😅

[Scythian]

4 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Can triple MawKrusha and boars be competitive?

Most of the people who are playing Ironjawz are using 2-3 mawkrushers and gore gruntas in the tournaments with an occasional brute or ardboyz unit. Once in a while you’ll see an Ironjawz army place in the top 10. Personally, I use a Megaboss on foot, a weirdnob, 2 warchanters, 2 units of 20 Brutes with 4 gore choppas each, and a unit of three gruntas.  It’s a horrible list tactically, but I just love the Brute models. Megaboss on foot is an awesome model as well.  I’m just hoping for a points reduction in the GH19.

[Malakree]

36 minutes ago, Scythian said:

Most of the people who are playing Ironjawz are using 2-3 mawkrushers and gore gruntas in the tournaments with an occasional brute or ardboyz unit. Once in a while you’ll see an Ironjawz army place in the top 10. Personally, I use a Megaboss on foot, a weirdnob, 2 warchanters, 2 units of 20 Brutes with 4 gore choppas each, and a unit of three gruntas.  It’s a horrible list tactically, but I just love the Brute models. Megaboss on foot is an awesome model as well.  I’m just hoping for a points reduction in the GH19.

Drop the Weirdnob and put in a fungoid general, split one of the units of 20 into a unit of 10. Drop the GG's and add in an Ironfist.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- General

Battleline
20 x Orruk Brutes (720)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

Stop being a pansy and go all in!

The fungoid is so important for getting that big unit of 20 where you need it to be. Throw a CA on it, then use Ironfist to retreat out of combat and drop a CP run on them for a 6. Run, retreat and charge is going to make it way harder to tie it into combat with some form of tagging while the combination of run/ironfist is going to make it surprisingly fast.

 

[PUFNSTUF]

Can the cave shaman be a general in ironjawz when it's not ironjawz? Or did I miss it getting that allegiance somewhere.

[Malakree]

@PUFNSTUF https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/age_of_sigmar_malign_portents_errata_en-1.pdf

Quote

• Fungoid Cave-Shamans can be included in any army that shares their Grand Alliance keyword. They are not treated as part of the player’s army for the purposes of defining its allegiance and what allegiance abilities it qualifies for.
• Fungoid Cave-Shaman can be chosen as the army’s general even if they do not share the keyword of that army’s allegiance.
• Fungoid Cave-Shamans can be given a command trait or artefact of power if they share the keyword of that army’s allegiance.

So it can be our general, it just can't have an Artefact or Command Trait. We do take some hits in regards to no 4+ IJ move and no Ironclad etc. but for that list I don't think it needs it.

[PUFNSTUF]

Thanks for the info!

[Mayple]

Question. Does Ironskull's boyz count as 'Ardboyz for the purpose of battalion requirements? If so, how does this look?

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Brutish Cunning 
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof 
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)
40 x Gitmob Grots (200)
- Bows & Slashas
- Allies

Battalions
Ardfist (170)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 340 / 400
Wounds: 209