arka0415 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I'm starting a standard Legions of Nagash army- I was lured in by the new Death hype but I'm trying to keep things "old school" if you will. My current thought is to use two Vampire Lords (one on Zombie Dragon, one on Nightmare) and one Necromancer as heroes for a list with a bunch of Skeleton Warriors as battleline: - Vampire Lord on Nightmare w/ Spirit-Possessed Blades, Chalice of Blood [General, Mastery of Death] - Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon w/ Lance, Shield, Chalice of Blood [Wristbands of Black Gold] - Necromancer - 40x Skeleton Warriors w/ Spears and Shields - 10x Black Knights w/ Lances and Shields All that would take up 1210 points, leaving me with 290 to go. This is the perfect number to buy 30 more Skeleton Warriors and 1 Command Point, 5 Blood Knights and 1 Command Point, or maybe something else? I feel like the Black Knights and Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon will be enough speed that I don't need Dire Wolves, but maybe I do? Also, I'm going with Legion of Sacrament for the +1 to casting (easier to cast spells and to trigger Locus of Shyish), +3" movement, and the excellent Wristbands of Black Gold. However, Grand Legion for extra healing and Lord of Nagashizzar for extra attacks sounds great too. I'm new to Death so I'd be happy to get anyone's feedback about this list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Overall, the list is pretty solid. You only have a single Battleline unit though as Black Knights aren't battleline. So you're going to need two more. I'd say that Legion of Sacrament is probably the better option (or Legion of Blood for +1A on your Vampires). Although Endless Legions from Grand Host sounds brilliant, it only triggers on summonable units on a 5+ and will only resurrect models if they have 1 wound (i.e. skeletons/grave guard) Also as one point, Locus of Shyish doesn't take into account any casting modifiers, it only triggers on a natural 9 on the casting dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClockworkGeo91 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Why not fill out your battle lines with the 30 skeletons (one of ten for objective grabbing and another of 20)? Cause It looks pretty good apart from the battleline requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahn-ket Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Why not go up to 2000p same Battleline requirements (3+) but more options to fill them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 hours ago, RuneBrush said: Overall, the list is pretty solid. You only have a single Battleline unit though as Black Knights aren't battleline. So you're going to need two more. I'd say that Legion of Sacrament is probably the better option (or Legion of Blood for +1A on your Vampires). Although Endless Legions from Grand Host sounds brilliant, it only triggers on summonable units on a 5+ and will only resurrect models if they have 1 wound (i.e. skeletons/grave guard) Thanks. Huh, I thought Black Knights were Battleline for Legions of Nagash armies. Guess that changed. I still have plenty of points to spare though... what do you think would be better, 40+10+10 Skeletons or 30+30+10 for Battleline... or should I use some Dire Wolves for one of those groups instead? For example, I could add 10 Skeletons and 10 Direwolves (+200) to bring this to 1410, leave 50 for a Command Point, and then maybe add an Endless Spell? Speaking of Command Points, is it worth spending 50 points on a CP? Or should I just let them build up in game? Also, I love the idea of Vampires as melee casters (Vile Transference + Chalice of Blood + The Hunger!) but it seems I can only fit in two. I'd like to bring more, but maybe they're not viable? 1 hour ago, ClockworkGeo91 said: Why not fill out your battle lines with the 30 skeletons (one of ten for objective grabbing and another of 20)? Cause It looks pretty good apart from the battleline requirement. I heard that Skeleton Warriors in groups of 20 were not good, that you should play 10, 30, or 40. What do you think? 1 hour ago, Ahn-ket said: Why not go up to 2000p same Battleline requirements (3+) but more options to fill them Gotta buy more models if I do that! - Thanks, and sorry for all the questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I believe Black Knights as battleline vanished when the Legions battletome appeared. My own preference is a 40/10/10 of Skeletons as it gives me a solid blob unit and a couple for parking on objectives*. 20 is generally seen as sub-optimal because it only takes 1 damage for them to lose their attack buff and in reality the damage they cause is from weight of dice rather than quality of attacks Don't forget there is also a Vampire on foot that you can run. Although they don't have as much combat potential as one on a dragon, it's more Deathly Invocation and an additional spell. From a pure theoretical point of view, I think having an additional command point banked is a good idea at the beginning of the game. Our key summoning mechanic requires the use of a command point so 50 points to return a unit is a really good price trade-off! * note, with the new Nighthaunt units, there's a general thought/opinion in that Chainrasp are going to be a good alternative to units of 10 skeletons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Here's an idea: - Vampire Lord on Nightmare w/ Spirit-Possessed Blades, Chalice of Blood [General, Mastery of Death] - Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon w/ Lance and Shield, Chalice of Blood [Wristbands of Black Gold] - Necromancer - 40x Skeleton Warriors w/ Spears and Shields - 10x Skeleton Warriors w/ Swords and Shields - 10x Black Knights w/ Lances and Shields - 10x Dire Wolves Total: 1410 That leaves me with an awkward 90 points left. I could buy a Command Point for 50 and upgrade my Necromancer to a Vampire Lord. which would be better but I'd lose Danse Macabre. Or I could buy a Command Point for 50 and take an Endless Spell like Gemenids or Pendulum. I could also scrap the extra Command Point and just take 10 more Skeletons. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: I believe Black Knights as battleline vanished when the Legions battletome appeared. Okay, that makes sense. I don't have the book quite yet, still working on what I have been told and/or find online (hence the confusion about Locus of Shyish). If you have any other advice do let me know 5 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: Don't forget there is also a Vampire on foot that you can run. Although they don't have as much combat potential as one on a dragon, it's more Deathly Invocation and an additional spell. I admit, I would love to have three Vampires (one on Dragon, one on Nightmare, one on foot) for the fluff, but the Necromancer's Danse Macabre is so powerful, I feel like I need to take at least one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, arka0415 said: Okay, that makes sense. I don't have the book quite yet, still working on what I have been told and/or find online (hence the confusion about Locus of Shyish). If you have any other advice do let me know I admit, I would love to have three Vampires (one on Dragon, one on Nightmare, one on foot) for the fluff, but the Necromancer's Danse Macabre is so powerful, I feel like I need to take at least one. What's nice is there are loads of ways of playing a Death army now. When you do get the book, you might find Legion of Blood a bit more appealing as all vampires gain +1 attack. Oddly I don't use Danse Macabre that often with the army I play and tend to use one of the other Deathmage spells - normally the one that does -1 to hit -1 bravery. It's situational, but as a normal course of action, being able to strip off a unit's "on a 6+" ability will make units last longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just now, RuneBrush said: What's nice is there are loads of ways of playing a Death army now. When you do get the book, you might find Legion of Blood a bit more appealing as all vampires gain +1 attack. Legion of Blood does sound interesting, plus stacking -1 Bravery with the Death banner ability sounds like fun, but I'd only be getting 2-3 more attacks army-wide in exchange for no +1 to casting, no +3" move, and no Wristbands of Black Gold. Just now, RuneBrush said: Oddly I don't use Danse Macabre that often with the army I play and tend to use one of the other Deathmage spells - normally the one that does -1 to hit -1 bravery. It's situational, but as a normal course of action, being able to strip off a unit's "on a 6+" ability will make units last longer. Okay, interesting to hear. I was under the impression that the "main combo" of Death armies was to take a big mob of Skeletons, keep it healed up, then cast Danse Macabre. If I was able to heal my big blob to 30+ Skeletons before a charge, I'd be getting 90-120 attacks (depending on CP use) as opposed to 120-150... maybe 90-120 is enough then? I admit, it would be cool to get another Vampire Lord and another cast of Vile Transference, not to mention that a Vampire Lord is worth about 20 Skeleton attacks... What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, arka0415 said: Legion of Blood does sound interesting, plus stacking -1 Bravery with the Death banner ability sounds like fun, but I'd only be getting 2-3 more attacks army-wide in exchange for no +1 to casting, no +3" move, and no Wristbands of Black Gold. You get +1 attacks to all melee weapons, which will include the mounts attacks 22 minutes ago, arka0415 said: Okay, interesting to hear. I was under the impression that the "main combo" of Death armies was to take a big mob of Skeletons, keep it healed up, then cast Danse Macabre. If I was able to heal my big blob to 30+ Skeletons before a charge, I'd be getting 90-120 attacks (depending on CP use) as opposed to 120-150... maybe 90-120 is enough then? I admit, it would be cool to get another Vampire Lord and another cast of Vile Transference, not to mention that a Vampire Lord is worth about 20 Skeleton attacks... What do you think? It's one combo that is seen a lot because it's pretty easy to achieve - my Death army is certainly built around units of 1 wound Summonable models. It's certainly not the only trick that Death can pull though. Legion of Night allows you to set 3 units up in ambush and gives your skeletons +1 save when in your territory and Legion of Sacrement can make a really magically strong army. Ultimately it's down to what type of army you fancy collecting/playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Black knights were and are battleline for Deathrattle armies only, but Deathrattle armies aren't very good. No allegiance rules of their own, so they're forced to use generic death rules, no deathrattle wizards or monsters, etc. If you're looking for cheap battleline filler in a legion of nagash army, the best options are minimum units of dire wolves or chainrasps. Both work a lot better in small units than skeletons or zombies. At least, they do since zombies lost the ability to voltron up into bigger squads during the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Thanks for all the advice. Following the "play what you like" approach, I guess I like Vampires, Skeletons, and Black Knights! And Dire Wolves just seem so good, it can't hurt to throw in some I think. Here's an idea: Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament Vampire Lord w/ Spirit-Possessed Blades, Chalice of Blood [General, Mastery of Death] Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon w/ Lance and Shield, Chalice of Blood [Wristbands of Black Gold] Vampire Lord on Nightmare w/ Spirit-Possessed Blades, Chalice of Blood Vampire Lord on Nightmare w/ Spirit-Possessed Blades, Chalice of Blood 10x Black Knights w/ Lances and Shields 40x Skeleton Warriors w/ Spears and Shields 40x Skeleton Warriors w/ Spears and Shields 10x Dire Wolves 10x Dire Wolves Total: 1900 - Command Points: 2 - Give everybody Vile Transference, then go to town suicide-charging the cavalry and wolves and resurrecting them with Endless Legions until the Skeleton mob gets into action. Vampires can heal almost endlessly so they should be annoying to take down. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoalaSnok Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 In matched play you can only attempt each spell once per turn, so you wouldn't want to take the same spell on every vampire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgregs Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Here is a pretty good bat rep using death march at 1000 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgregs Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Whoops wrong topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 3 hours ago, arka0415 said: Here's an idea: Missing a good old necromancer for overwhelming dread... -1 to hit always comes in handy, -1 bravery might also be another model. Otherwise you might play legion of the night and bring the zombiedragon and the knights in from ambush. 40 skellis in terrain with mystic shield as the bait is just rediculous (2+ muhahahaaaha) now 3+ rerolling 1 for -rend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 11 hours ago, KoalaSnok said: In matched play you can only attempt each spell once per turn, so you wouldn't want to take the same spell on every vampire. Right, forget about that. Vile Transference is really strong, is it worth taking twice, in case one of the Vampires that knows it is killed? Otherwise, Amaranthine Orb seems great, maybe Pinions for the unmounted Lord... and other strong spells in Lore of Vampires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Vile transference, amaranthine orb, pinions (particularly on a VLoZD or other large melee threat), and soulpike are generally considered to be the good spells from that lore, without any universally agreed best spell between them. Don't underestimate soulpike, it can really put opponents in a difficult place, especially when cast on one of the many units in the game with 3d6 charge range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Sception said: Vile transference, amaranthine orb, pinions (particularly on a VLoZD or other large melee threat), and soulpike are generally considered to be the good spells from that lore, without any universally agreed best spell between them. Don't underestimate soulpike, it can really put opponents in a difficult place, especially when cast on one of the many units in the game with 3d6 charge range. Thanks! Here's what I was thinking: Aramanthine Orb on a mounted Vampire Lord (Fast and can easily line up a good shot) Vile Transference on a VLoZD (Durable but will get focused, needs healing) Soulpike on a Vampire Lord on foot (He will stay with the infantry and hopefully protect them) Though maybe I should give Pinions to the VLoZD since you recommend that, and have a mounted Vampire Lord use Vile Transference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Try it different ways, see what works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arka0415 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 56 minutes ago, Sception said: Try it different ways, see what works for you. The models are still in the mail though, in the meantime I have to worry about something, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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