XReN Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Bozly said: I dont know the new secrators the liberator varient are pretty tight. Reorll saves and better chance to deal damage also a bit more adaptable. I think mostly sacrisanct can be potent Right now, where I'm from the meta requires you to have A LOT of models to capture those objectives and because seqitors are as tough against mortal wounds as libs (so not at all) and getting a 2+ save is easy I don't see how beneficial new guys can be Though as i remember we will get a sacrosanct lord on foot, who must be cheaper and with that in mind i think new chamber can be pretty good in 1000 points games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, XReN said: Right now, where I'm from the meta requires you to have A LOT of models to capture those objectives and because seqitors are as tough against mortal wounds as libs (so not at all) and getting a 2+ save is easy I don't see how beneficial new guys can be Though as i remember we will get a sacrosanct lord on foot, who must be cheaper and with that in mind i think new chamber can be pretty good in 1000 points games Thats true how would we deal with that because being low model count makes it rough in general. Im worried about that brick of libs running though. Its not quite as easy to just give the itb. Now its a cost efficiency question because of so many command abilities. Also ive been wondering if longstrikes are better than the artillery piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Bozly said: Also ive been wondering if longstrikes are better than the artillery piece. With ballista's point cost and look out sir rule they, imo, now almost useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 Longstrikes can still teleport around with an Aquilor. I don't think one shooting unit makes the other useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Requizen said: Longstrikes can still teleport around with an Aquilor. I don't think one shooting unit makes the other useless. Lets face it: there is not so much work longstrikes can do other than hunting heroes and hitting on 3+ without dealing MWs is just not worth it for me I also recently played a VW with two hellstorm rocket batteries in it, lord ordinator as my general and relictor for bless weapons and it just rekt everything it shoot at, for the same points as raptors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 Ehhh... Rend-2 D2 is good against everything, not just hunting Heroes. They're fantastic at popping Monsters or elite units with good saves, who won't get LOS applied to the hit. If there's a unit with 3+ or 4+rr saves, Longstrikes will make them feel like paper. Watch a Monster go from full to final utility bracket in one round of shooting from a big unit. They fill different roles is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 44 minutes ago, Requizen said: Ehhh... Rend-2 D2 is good against everything, not just hunting Heroes. They're fantastic at popping Monsters or elite units with good saves, who won't get LOS applied to the hit. If there's a unit with 3+ or 4+rr saves, Longstrikes will make them feel like paper. Watch a Monster go from full to final utility bracket in one round of shooting from a big unit. They fill different roles is all. I used longstrikes quite efectively both with lightning chariot and lord aquilor, but their time comes to an end, SCE are elite army and we can't dedicate 1/5 or 1/4 with aquilor of our force for killing single targets in game of grabbing objectives. Also if you look at ballista it's all-around better, shooting at long distance can potentialy deal as much damage as raptors while having same hit/wound target numbers for lower cost, same distance, 2+ save in cover, 1 more wound and what is most important: without losing efficiency with every two lost wounds while being much, much more versatile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, XReN said: Lets face it: there is not so much work longstrikes can do other than hunting heroes and hitting on 3+ without dealing MWs is just not worth it for me I also recently played a VW with two hellstorm rocket batteries in it, lord ordinator as my general and relictor for bless weapons and it just rekt everything it shoot at, for the same points as raptors The look out sire ! rule made the longstrike job much harder The longstrike didn't drop in point, unlike the rest of the vanguard-chamber We saw Liberators having a warscroll change. I'm pretty sure longstrikes will have a warscroll change which make them ignore the look out sire ! rule, since they are still 180, and, in lore, are here to snipe heroes. It would make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 hours ago, Requizen said: Ehhh... Rend-2 D2 is good against everything, not just hunting Heroes. They're fantastic at popping Monsters or elite units with good saves, who won't get LOS applied to the hit. If there's a unit with 3+ or 4+rr saves, Longstrikes will make them feel like paper. Watch a Monster go from full to final utility bracket in one round of shooting from a big unit. They fill different roles is all. They're pretty bad at anything that isn't hunting low wound heroes. They don't have the damage output to break monsters or elite units with good saves. 6 Longstrike raptors do 5.55 damage per turn to a 4+ save(6ish with Mortals). That's amazing when you're popping a support hero every turn, it's atrocious when you're killing 2 Paladins with a 360pt unit. Two turns to kill a thundertusk is a bit better but a thundertusk ALSO takes two turns to kill a thundertusk for the same price, while also BEING a thundertusk. Longstrikes are more specialized for their role than any other unit in the stormcast army. They're valuable because you could rely on them to do an incredibly consistent amount of damage to your opponents support heroes from relative safety, they don't really have anything else they're good at. Right now they do 2.22 damage to a 4+ save character at 30" for 180pts. For 20 points more you could get 2 ballistas that have better range, better defense, more mobility because even though they're slower they don't get penalized for moving, a secondary shooting profile that does massively more damage, and the ability to take a Lord Ordinator for buffing. They even do almost exactly the same amount of damage(2.22 vs 1.94). Without changes to the warscroll or the points there really isn't any reason to take Longstrikes anymore. Even teleporting with the Aquilor isn't gonna help them much, Palladors are a much better target for that and the ballista's 40" range means that they cover so much of the table they don't need the help. Honestly using the Aquilor on them is throwing good money after bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Theres a lot of hype around the stardrake now do you guys think he’ll be an auto include now? Especially if we run more sacrisanct his passive ability can be really strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Bozly said: Theres a lot of hype around the stardrake now do you guys think he’ll be an auto include now? Especially if we run more sacrisanct his passive ability can be really strong There will be lists with the Stardrake that do very well however my hope is there will be lists that need those 560 points elsewhere (and they will do as well as the stardrake lists). I've ran a Stardrake from release and after a shaky start it has been pretty awesome and I'm glad for that! You want to use that expensive centerpiece. But it is less fun if the best SC lists require a drake. New players arent going to begin with one. 7 hours ago, ledha said: I'm pretty sure longstrikes will have a warscroll change which make them ignore the look out sire ! rule, since they are still 180, and, in lore, are here to snipe heroes. It would make sense Yes I think they may be moving towards 'an unmodified roll' for a lot of the proc abilities. Remains to be seen but it would mean raptors are still strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigmar is scottish Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 So what ranged unit would you guys take instead of the ones that come in the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitloze Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 More ballistas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wanderer Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 15 hours ago, Erdemo86 said: Im not really satisfied with the new soul wars box. I think i wait till the units come seperate. Sc half seems to uncomplete. 8 sequitors with not enough grand weapons and no sword option. 3 evocators but you need 5. And for the lord arkanum i need to see the other options, because the gryph version seems very underwhelming. And i dont like the castigors. Kinda how I feel. Yes it's a good deal but with exact unit numbers required you end up with a lot of models you can't work into matched play. I've worked out that if you get the starter set and the easy build Sequitors you need one more Sequitor with a grand mace to make a full ten man unit. If I could source that Sequitor from somewhere then I would have a ten man Sequitor unit, the two heroes, a full unit of Castigators and the Bolt-thrower, which I think makes the starter set worth it. Without that extra grand mace Sequitor the value drops significantly and I doubt the value in getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 hours ago, sigmar is scottish said: So what ranged unit would you guys take instead of the ones that come in the box? 1 hour ago, Pitloze said: More ballistas. Also Judicators. At 160pts and battleline I don't think there'll ever be a day where you can go wrong with judicators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophe Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, The Wanderer said: Kinda how I feel. Yes it's a good deal but with exact unit numbers required you end up with a lot of models you can't work into matched play. I've worked out that if you get the starter set and the easy build Sequitors you need one more Sequitor with a grand mace to make a full ten man unit. If I could source that Sequitor from somewhere then I would have a ten man Sequitor unit, the two heroes, a full unit of Castigators and the Bolt-thrower, which I think makes the starter set worth it. Without that extra grand mace Sequitor the value drops significantly and I doubt the value in getting it. yes it's a trap = a super good deal, but a very incomplete one, which will trick you to buy like 8 boxes if you want to complete or optimized your squads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trayanee Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 minute ago, christophe said: yes it's a trap = a super good deal, but a very incomplete one, which will trick you to buy like 8 boxes if you want to complete or optimized your squads It is only a trap for those who always min/max their lists and If you are so serious about the game, you should go the full box route anyway. Perfection always costs more. For most of the people, it is a nice way to get into the game. Also its worth noting that the competitive aspect has really improved from the last starter. Sequitors are just one greatmace short with ETB box. Previously Liberators had no grandhammers, prosecutors had no great weapons and were the less useful variant, retributors lacked starsouls and LCoD lacked a thundershield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Personally I find that we are mostly playing at 2000 points, and with 1 box of Soul Wars there is no way we are reaching 2k points anyways. I believe these boxes were designed to buy in multiples and split and are then supplemented with easy to build kits. Also, I see no reason why anyone cannot just kitbash/convert some models to fit their needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kugane said: Personally I find that we are mostly playing at 2000 points, and with 1 box of Soul Wars there is no way we are reaching 2k points anyways. I believe these boxes were designed to buy in multiples and split and are then supplemented with easy to build kits. Also, I see no reason why anyone cannot just kitbash/convert some models to fit their needs. Because kitbashing/converting sucks and is full of buttz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Just now, Bellfree said: Because kitbashing/converting sucks and is full of buttz. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjed Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 For battleline, would you guys rather go 2/1 Sequitors/Judicators or 1/2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophe Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, Kugane said: Personally I find that we are mostly playing at 2000 points, and with 1 box of Soul Wars there is no way we are reaching 2k points anyways. I believe these boxes were designed to buy in multiples and split and are then supplemented with easy to build kits. Also, I see no reason why anyone cannot just kitbash/convert some models to fit their needs. Hum... Having to buy 2 x 125 euros boxes (+ probably Dracolines and Great Taurus guy for good measure and the magic box, GH2018...), while having already lots of SC (most SC players usually have already some SC models...) would still be what I called a "trap" = designing an incomplete expensive product to push even more sell to complete what you just got. Not putting the proper number of guy/unit was deliberate and cunning, bordering deceitful... If Lego did not put all the brick needed in a box set, we would not like it... GW wants our money, and they are super good at producing beautiful models AND "trick" you to need and buy always more (more than you can paint, more than your banker or girlfriend would advise...). I am weak but lucid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syph0n Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, christophe said: Hum... Having to buy 2 x 125 euros boxes (+ probably Dracolines and Great Taurus guy for good measure and the magic box, GH2018...), while having already lots of SC (most SC players usually have already some SC models...) would still be what I called a "trap" = designing an incomplete expensive product to push even more sell to complete what you just got. Not putting the proper number of guy/unit was deliberate and cunning, bordering deceitful... If Lego did not put all the brick needed in a box set, we would not like it... GW wants our money, and they are super good at producing beautiful models AND "trick" you to need and buy always more (more than you can paint, more than your banker or girlfriend would advise...). I am weak but lucid I'm not sure that's entirely fair. It's not a trick - but yes, it will be driven by financial means. It's still a very cost effective way to build an army. If you consider the current starter set for example, 1 box of something like Vanguard Raptors and a box of easy to build Retributors soon gets you to 1k for the price of about £30 on top of the starter set. That's reasonably good I think. Don't forget, a lot of new hobbyists are not remotely interested in playing matched play games. I run a Warhammer club at school and the kids have a real mish-mash of models and armies. Most didn't even spray their model before painting. They just stick them together and have a battle using the 40k primer of AoS core rules. You don't worry that there's two missing retributors! I'd never suggest that the hobby is cheap, but the starter set is good value, whichever way you try and cut it. I do agree though, I can't understand why not just provide a full unit, but it's probably to give a flavour of multiple units combined with what fits on the appropriate sprues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, christophe said: Hum... Having to buy 2 x 125 euros boxes (+ probably Dracolines and Great Taurus guy for good measure and the magic box, GH2018...), while having already lots of SC (most SC players usually have already some SC models...) would still be what I called a "trap" = designing an incomplete expensive product to push even more sell to complete what you just got. Not putting the proper number of guy/unit was deliberate and cunning, bordering deceitful... If Lego did not put all the brick needed in a box set, we would not like it... GW wants our money, and they are super good at producing beautiful models AND "trick" you to need and buy always more (more than you can paint, more than your banker or girlfriend would advise...). I am weak but lucid Well, on average from 8+ armies I've collected and painted the past few years after the price spike, you end up spending about 300 to 500 euro per army, even with start collecting stuff being a thing. Considering the the nighthaunt part can easily be swapped for a stormcast part, the army that matters is effectively only costing 62,5, not considering the value the corebook gives by itself. So even if you bought 4 or 5 boxes, it is relatively cheap :). But I totally agree that I dislike the tricking.. I personally bought 4 boxes of Soul Wars with the idea of playing Nighthaunt and selling off the stormcast, but people don't want the stormcast XD. I am now swapping to the Order side of things and getting rid of the Nighthaunt instead =P, 4 Ballista sounds like a blast (no pun intended) to add as an ally to my other order armies haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 6 hours ago, sigmar is scottish said: So what ranged unit would you guys take instead of the ones that come in the box? Knight Venator. Highly Mobile, elevated so easy to see over objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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