Alarielle and the Aelves Question

[SaJeel]

So I was hoping someone could clear up some lore stuff for me. First question is Alarielle an Elven God or not. Who exactly created The Wanderers? I know that with the new Daughters of khaine some stuff has been cleared up I was wondering if any of these have been touched on.

[The Golem]

48 minutes ago, SaJeel said:

First question is Alarielle an Elven God or not.

While Alarielle WAS an elf in her previous life, her transformation into a goddess seems to have changed that: she is now a sylvaneth and is no longer associated to the aelves.

48 minutes ago, SaJeel said:

Who exactly created The Wanderers?

It is my understanding that there are two types of aelves:

• Azyrite aelves: they are the descendants of aelves who survived the destruction of the World-that-was through various means (magic, divine intervention or just dumb luck). They initially settled in the realm of Azyr before spreading in the other realms during the Age of Myths. They are basically the elves miniatures from WFB that made it into AoS.
• New aelves: Most elves died during the destruction of the World-that-was and their souls were swallowed by Slaanesh. Then the Chaos god got captured by Tyrion, Teclis, Malerion and Morathi. The aelven gods extracted the souls and  reshaped them before bringing them to life, creating new aelf species. Apparently these new aelves are physically different from the classic Azyrite aelves: we already know the khinerai and the melusai (from the Daugters of Khaine faction) who have wings/serpent tails, and it seems that the next aelf faction (Idoneth Deepkin) will feature new aelves (created by Teclis) who live underwater, at least according to rumours.

That said, I believe the Wanderers are azyrite aelves: they weren't "created" by anyone, they are just descendants of elves who survived the End Times.

[GammaMage]

Whilst no longer an aelf, she technically is part of the overall aelven pantheon, as the Wanderers still worship her as the goddess of Life and the ruler of Ghyran, despite the fact that she doesn't really care about them.

The Wanderers, like the other aelf units from the old world, seem to be leftovers from the old world who escaped from being devoured by Slaanesh. We don't quite know how they are still around. Perhaps they somehow physically survived, or maybe their souls, having escaped the fate of most aelves, somehow were reincarnated in the Mortal Realms. Perhaps Lileath's plan to hide aelfs in a hidded Chaos-free world was actually successful after all.

[Aezeal]

3 hours ago, The Golem said:

While Alarielle WAS an elf in her previous life, her transformation into a goddess seems to have changed that: she is now a sylvaneth and is no longer associated to the aelves.

It is my understanding that there are two types of aelves:

• Azyrite aelves: they are the descendants of aelves who survived the destruction of the World-that-was through various means (magic, divine intervention or just dumb luck). They initially settled in the realm of Azyr before spreading in the other realms during the Age of Myths. They are basically the elves miniatures from WFB that made it into AoS.
• New aelves: Most elves died during the destruction of the World-that-was and their souls were swallowed by Slaanesh. Then the Chaos god got captured by Tyrion, Teclis, Malerion and Morathi. The aelven gods extracted the souls and  reshaped them before bringing them to life, creating new aelf species. Apparently these new aelves are physically different from the classic Azyrite aelves: we already know the khinerai and the melusai (from the Daugters of Khaine faction) who have wings/serpent tails, and it seems that the next aelf faction (Idoneth Deepkin) will feature new aelves (created by Teclis) who live underwater, at least according to rumours.

That said, I believe the Wanderers are azyrite aelves: they weren't "created" by anyone, they are just descendants of elves who survived the End Times.

Where do you get this info on Azyrite Aelves? I can't imagine how a significant number of anything could have survived the end times... World blew up.. everything was gone right?

[SaJeel]

That is my understanding Aezeal, nothing was left, maybe some creatures managed to pull their souls into a physical form but only incredibly strong ones. 

I know daughters of Khaine sheds more light on those early days pre age of myth, or so i heard.

[Aezeal]

4 minutes ago, SaJeel said:

That is my understanding Aezeal, nothing was left, maybe some creatures managed to pull their souls into a physical form but only incredibly strong ones. 

I know daughters of Khaine sheds more light on those early days pre age of myth, or so i heard.

I thought only mallus and Sigmar remained... the warp and chaos are as they where (including souls taken by chaos - all chaos characters and demons). But I thought all humans and aelves in the realms where new there.. except for some souls stolen from slaanesh.

[The Golem]

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Where do you get this info on Azyrite Aelves?

We know from the big book ("Mighty battles in an age of unending war", p52) that when Sigmar came in the Mortal Realms, there were already people inhabiting those worlds. Then when the aelven gods rose, they explored the Mortal Realms, eventually met Sigmar, and yet they found no aelf except in Azyrheim (p56). Meaning that there were already aelves in Azyr. I call them the Azyrite aelves (not that they are a species of aelves tied to Azyr, it's just a name I give them because they are/were living in Azyr; "Azyrite" as in "inhabitant of Azyr"). They are of course different from the newer aelves who came later, those who were created/reshaped by the gods (right after Slaanesh got imprisoned).
Remember that at this point, Sigmar's pantheon didn't 't exist yet. So if I had to guess, the aelves were living in Azyr (among humans and duardins) because it was the main place of civilization.

However I am not completely sure that the azyrite aelves are the descendants of the elves from the World-that-was. Like I said in my previous post, it is "my understanding".

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

World blew up.. everything was gone right?

Actually there are relics of the World-that-was which remain in the Mortal Realms.

• Mallus, the core of the World-that-was, of course
• The Spear of Mallus, a big rock filled with prophecies, located in Excelsis (Ghur) and featured in the book "City of Secrets". It is also a remnant of the World-that-was.
• There are artifacts mentioned here and there.
  • For example, there is an artifact in the DoK Battletome, the Cursed Blade, which is described as an ancient weapon from the World-that-was.
  • A relic from the World-that-was can be a distinguishing feature of a Free City (source).

The World-that-was didn't "blow up" like a grenade. It wasn't like a big bang. The apocalypse was more like a wave of raw chaos (Warp if you prefer) which swallowed the Winds of magic and then swept across the world, uncreating everything on its path. Except it seems that not everything was destroyed... There are relics that still exist in the Mortal Realms. Perhaps there were "holes" in the chaos wave? Perhaps those relics were protected via magic or divine means. Or perhaps they just happened to get swallowed by the chaos storm and then thrown into the Mortal Realms in the same state as they were before.

[zedatkinszed]

5 hours ago, The Golem said:

While Alarielle WAS an elf in her previous life, her transformation into a goddess seems to have changed that: she is now a sylvaneth and is no longer associated to the aelves.

It is my understanding that there are two types of aelves:

• Azyrite aelves: they are the descendants of aelves who survived the destruction of the World-that-was through various means (magic, divine intervention or just dumb luck). They initially settled in the realm of Azyr before spreading in the other realms during the Age of Myths. They are basically the elves miniatures from WFB that made it into AoS.
• New aelves: Most elves died during the destruction of the World-that-was and their souls were swallowed by Slaanesh. Then the Chaos god got captured by Tyrion, Teclis, Malerion and Morathi. The aelven gods extracted the souls and  reshaped them before bringing them to life, creating new aelf species. Apparently these new aelves are physically different from the classic Azyrite aelves: we already know the khinerai and the melusai (from the Daugters of Khaine faction) who have wings/serpent tails, and it seems that the next aelf faction (Idoneth Deepkin) will feature new aelves (created by Teclis) who live underwater, at least according to rumours.

That said, I believe the Wanderers are azyrite aelves: they weren't "created" by anyone, they are just descendants of elves who survived the End Times.

Yup. Except one thing. Alarielle is included by GW in the Aelven panetheon (I don't get why they did that - AFAICS you're absolutely right she's not an aelf any more. Interestingly if you look at the keywords on the DoK scrolls - Morathi and the Witch Aelves (and sisters of slaughter) all have the "aelf" keyword but the Medusae, Melusai and Khinerai do not. So the "reforged" aelves, like the Sylvaneth have become something else, while the survivors like Morathi and the Witch Aelves from Azyr are still Aelven.

6 minutes ago, The Golem said:

We know from the big book ("Mighty battles in an age of unending war", p52) that when Sigmar came in the Mortal Realms, there were already people inhabiting those worlds. Then when the aelven gods rose, they explored the Mortal Realms, eventually met Sigmar, and yet they found no aelf except in Azyrheim (p56). Meaning that there were already aelves in Azyr. I call them the Azyrite aelves (not that they are a species of aelves tied to Azyr, it's just a name I give them because they are/were living in Azyr; "Azyrite" as in "inhabitant of Azyr"). They are of course different from the newer aelves who came later, those who were created/reshaped by the gods (right after Slaanesh got imprisoned).
Remember that at this point, Sigmar's pantheon doesn't exist yet. So if I had to guess, the aelves were living in Azyr (among humans and duardins) because it was the main place of civilization.

However I am not completely sure that the azyrite aelves are the descendants of the elves from the World-that-was. Like I said in my previous post, it is "my understanding".

Actually there are relics of the World-that-was which remain in the Mortal Realms.

• Mallus, the core of the World-that-was, of course
• The Spear of Mallus, a big rock filled with prophecies, located in Excelsis (Ghur) and featured in the book "City of Secrets". It is also a remnant of the World-that-was.
• There are artifacts mentioned here and there.
  • For example, there is an artifact in the DoK Battletome, the Cursed Blade, which is described as an ancient weapon from the World-that-was.
  • A relic from the World-that-was can be a distinguishing feature of a Free City (source).

The World-that-was didn't "blow up" like a grenade. It wasn't like a big bang. The apocalypse was more like a wave of raw chaos (Warp if you prefer) which swallowed the Winds of magic and then swept across the world, uncreating everything on its path. Except it seems that not everything was destroyed... There are relics that still exist in the Mortal Realms. Perhaps there were "holes" in the chaos wave? Or perhaps those relics were protected via magic or divine means.

Yup again. And well said. Also the 8 incarnates (other than Sigmar) all survived because they are twined with the magic of teh realms (again this is my understanding). Malerion is the incarnate of Shadow, Alarielle of Life, Tyrion (& presumably Teclis) - light, etc etc.

[The Golem]

Just now, zedatkinszed said:

Yup. Except one thing. Alarielle is included by GW in the Aelven panetheon (I don't get why they did that - AFAICS you're absolutely right she's not an aelf any more.

Well, in a perspective of history and memories, Alarielle IS an aelf (she was born an aelf, lived in Ulthuan, etc.). But when we look at her current state, she is no longer an aelf but a sylvaneth.

So saying she is/isn't an aelf is both right and wrong I guess. It depends on how you look at it.

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Where do you get this info on Azyrite Aelves? I can't imagine how a significant number of anything could have survived the end times... World blew up.. everything was gone right?

I understand the back story as described above. But I would also add, don’t forget the company in this story. 

Although the story might lead up to blowing up the world that was because of the cool story arc. Gw still needed to be able to include the old factions. So reasons for them to be there needed to be part of the story. Just like some weird story arcs during end times just to get to the new age. 

Interestingly enough though, I don’t think ogors nor orcs and goblins got any explanation how they ended up in the realms. 

[flemingmma]

13 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I understand the back story as described above. But I would also add, don’t forget the company in this story. 

Although the story might lead up to blowing up the world that was because of the cool story arc. Gw still needed to be able to include the old factions. So reasons for them to be there needed to be part of the story. Just like some weird story arcs during end times just to get to the new age. 

Interestingly enough though, I don’t think ogors nor orcs and goblins got any explanation how they ended up in the realms. 

orkoid fungus survives all obviously

[Frozenbeast]

41 minutes ago, The Golem said:

Well, in a perspective of history and memories, Alarielle IS an aelf (she was born an aelf, lived in Ulthuan, etc.). But when we look at her current state, she is no longer an aelf but a sylvaneth.

So saying she is/isn't an aelf is both right and wrong I guess. It depends on how you look at it.

 

As per my understanding she is neither an Aelf nor a Sylvaneth now (despite keywords in the battlescroll say differently but I think that is just for game purposes). She is a goddess and in the specific the goddess of Life. In the Old World Alarielle and Ariel were the two mortal representations of Isha, In End Times (for reasons I do not remember) Lileath (another elf goddess) poisons Ariel and brings Alarielle to merge with her. So effectively the name remains the same (IDK why GW ecided to leave this name and change Malekinth in Malerion after the merge with his dragon but this is for a future AMA to GW) but now Alarielle is a goddess and not an Aelf anymore. The reason why she is considered a Sylvaneth is because after the End times when the Mortal Realms magically appear she reappeared (from dead) in the realm of Life with some seeds from Athel Loren which she plants and the Sylvaneth become a thing.

 

and, tha-tha-tha-th...thaaaaat's all folks!!!!!!!

 

Of ourse this is What I recall if something is wrong feel free to shut me up

[Incineroar87]

I always understood that being reborn or transcending to divinity erases or modifiers your structure and warhammer race, so even though in essence Ararielle still has the elf key word, and looks like an elf just like ariel did.  This is kinda contradictory because old warhammer gods and goddesses like Ariel where still counted as elves back then even in lore.   Maybe the complexity of AOS changes this. 

Alarielle's lore talks about her having the grudge and dislike against the elf kind that betrayed her when she needed them the most in the wars in the battletome, her stance and favour moving towards the Sylvaneth  she created is the separation from elf kind she talks about, or the betrayal of Tyrion, her former love.  I can see either of these making her stance the way it did moving away from the race that hurt her so much.

 

[Aeonotakist]

I think it is indicated more than once that all the old Elf races living in Azyrheim is reborn from the soul attached on Mallus. 

 

In other word, those guys died during the ET, but their souls somehow was not devoured by Slaanesh. It was linked with Mallus and once  Sigmar arrived in Azyr, he managed to reborn those souls to their former appearance. 

[GammaMage]

The Daughters of Khaine battletome says that the Witch Aelves and other normal looking aelfs are from Azyrheim, and were not created by Morathi, whose creations are all mutants in some way (Melusai and Khinerai).

[zedatkinszed]

8 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

I always understood that being reborn or transcending to divinity erases or modifiers your structure and warhammer race, so even though in essence Ararielle still has the elf key word, and looks like an elf just like ariel did.  This is kinda contradictory because old warhammer gods and goddesses like Ariel where still counted as elves back then even in lore.   Maybe the complexity of AOS changes this. 

Alarielle's lore talks about her having the grudge and dislike against the elf kind that betrayed her when she needed them the most in the wars in the battletome, her stance and favour moving towards the Sylvaneth  she created is the separation from elf kind she talks about, or the betrayal of Tyrion, her former love.  I can see either of these making her stance the way it did moving away from the race that hurt her so much.

 

36 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

The Daughters of Khaine battletome says that the Witch Aelves and other normal looking aelfs are from Azyrheim, and were not created by Morathi, whose creations are all mutants in some way (Melusai and Khinerai).

Just one thing - Alarielle no longer has the Aelf keyword. Whether due to her divinity or by choice she is no long Aelven. IMHO the difference between her and Morathi is interesting because Morathi still has the Aelf keyword.

But Morathi did not achieve apotheosis (Godhood) yet, but Alarielle did. Like the Sylvaneth and the mutants (Melussai and Khinerai and probably the Deepkin) the Goddess presumably became something else, a new thing - just like the Sylvaneth, Melussai, Medusae, Khinerai, Deepkin, Shadowkin, luminous- ... kin, etc etc. Maybe that's due to the old elves being more attuned to the winds of magic - they become beings of the realms in AOS just like the new Gods are.

 

[BrownDog]

Wait, did normal Aelves come from Azyre Specifically or are the Azyrheim Aelves just the ones that migrated there during the age of Chaos? Cause I'm pretty certain that's what the Daughter of Khaine's book was referring too when it mentioned Azyrheim Aelves.

[GammaMage]

The only existing normal aelves are the ones who were living in Azyrheim, many of whom marched out along with the rest of the order armies in the wake of the Stormcast. There are references to them retreating to Azyrheim at the end of the Age of Myth. For example, the Sylvaneth feel like the Wanderers abandoned Ghyran when they fled to Azyr. However, there is also the reference that during the Age of Myth, the aelven gods couldn't find any aelves in the Mortal Realms except those living in Azyrheim.

So putting it all together, my current understanding is that all aelves initially lived in Azyrheim. There were not very many of them. They went out into the mortal realms as part of Sigmar's alliance during the Age of Myth. Then, when the alliance fell apart, most of them retreated to Azyr, and got sealed in by Sigmar. Any who didn't make it back were most likely killed during the Age of Chaos.

Meanwhile, Tyrion Teclis, Malerion and Morathi imprisioned Slaanesh and began ripping aelf souls out of them, which they then made into new aelflike creatures. 

Then at the beginning of the Age of Sigmar, the Stormcast reopened the gates of Azyr, and the aelves of Azyrheim marched out into the mortal realms for a second time. Most now live in the Great Cities (noteably Anvilgard and Hallowheart are very aelf-focused). The witch aelves and hag queens went to find Morathi and joined up with the aelves she had made to make a hybrid army of normal and mutant aelfs.

[Aeonotakist]

19 hours ago, BrownDog said:

Wait, did normal Aelves come from Azyre Specifically or are the Azyrheim Aelves just the ones that migrated there during the age of Chaos? Cause I'm pretty certain that's what the Daughter of Khaine's book was referring too when it mentioned Azyrheim Aelves.

No that is not the case. It mentioned that the first time Morathi invited to Azyrheim by Sigmar, there was already Witch Elf around. And that was during age of Myth.