Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[BillyOcean]

4 hours ago, Deepkin said:

Yeah, Namarti thralls can upgrade to Icon Bearer, granting battleshock rerolls and +1 attack. There is no limit to the amount of Icon Bearers you can have in a unit. That won't ever be abused

Seriously... how did this get through playtesting? Obviously it will be faq'd in a couple of weeks, so lets not all get overexcited and convert a unit of 10 icon bearers. But whats the point of playtesting if not to find and close these loopholes?

[BillyOcean]

2 hours ago, Soulsmith said:

Lotann is a real let down, a 6/5+ save for a relatively small buff, and decent combat stats but not someone you want in combat. No command ability either.

I think he seems great... as long as he costs no more than 60pts 

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

This is true.... but only if the points support it. if the aspect of the sea cost twice as much as the aspect of the storm or something like that. THen they start to get alot closer quiet quickly. 

Also for all we know the aspect of the storm can ahve a battalion that makes it better. 

Don't forget the aspects are not special characters so they can take artefacts. That may also make a difference.

[Chikout]

3 hours ago, Soulsmith said:

Lotann is a real let down, a 6/5+ save for a relatively small buff, and decent combat stats but not someone you want in combat. No command ability either.

I don't know. The long range means you can park him  behind a unit of thralls in combat. He can add his 8 3 inch  range attacks to the unit, give the hit buff and the bravery buff and he can't be sniped by shooting because he won't be the closest unit. Finally the mortal wound save gives him a bit of resistance to magic.

[Themoocher]

Anybody else notice the aspect of the seas tranquility of the abyss. It doesn't say units wholly within, just says units within add 3 to bravery. So maybe the deepkin are supposed to be bunched together for some abilities and not for others.

[Themoocher]

Aspects of the storms bubble also doesn't say wholly within. Thoughts?

[Richelieu]

18 hours ago, Burf said:

Sea is a halfway decent pointcost away from being the best model in the game.

Couldn't agree more.  I'd compare him to GuO as a starting point, but better save that is easier to improve since he can get Leviadon cover and impossible to snipe thanks to nightmare.  Similar healing ability, similar buffing ability, similar spell casting, but far better combat.  I'm guessing they'll put him at 400 on the nose, possibly a criminal 380.  I'd be surprised if they put him above 420.

[Burf]

3 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

I like the storm aspect enough. It gives a bubble of wound re-rolling 1's for everyone including itself, it has a nice built in charge mechanic and can easily get to a 2+ save without needing mystic shield thanks to terrain and the leviadon, and can dish out a respectable amount of attacks that can cut down most enemies. I have to see the points, but at least for now I like both pretty equally.

 

or i'm a natural devil's advocate, who knows.

If it's a behemoth it can't get cover. And he better be a behemouth or like...1800pts.

[mmimzie]

Just now, Burf said:

If it's a behemoth it can't get cover.

No the cover restriction is specificly to the monster keyword. behemoth is specific only to generals hand book limitiations of 4 per army (2k pts) etc

[Themoocher]

1 minute ago, Burf said:

If it's a behemoth it can't get cover.

The aspects are not monsters they can get cover

[Burf]

1 hour ago, Themoocher said:

The aspects are not monsters they can get cover

Are they not monsters? Have we seen their keywords? Giving them all this and a 2+ save seems stupid.

I'm actually having trouble finding the ruling that says monsters don't get cover, was it in a GHB or the FAQ?

[Richelieu]

Yep, NZ website has some of the scrolls.  They're not monsters.

[Themoocher]

26 minutes ago, Burf said:

Are they not monsters? Have we seen their keywords? Giving them all this and a 2+ save seems stupid.

I'm actually having trouble finding the ruling that says monsters don't get cover, was it in a GHB or the FAQ?

yes every warscroll has been leaked for the models preordering today/tomorrow depending on timezone. the eidolons have Order, Aelf, Idoneth deepkin, eidolon, hero, aspect of the storm/sea

[mmimzie]

28 minutes ago, Burf said:

Are they not monsters? Have we seen their keywords? Giving them all this and a 2+ save seems stupid.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Yep, NZ website has some of the scrolls.  They're not monsters.

So we knew they weren't monsters since the white dwarf. As the warscroll was in there and relatively clear as well. 

That said how strong are they./ The psyker version if we compare to a melee lord of change (assume both get into melee):

against liberators:
LoC: 5.111 unsaved wounds

AoSea: 5.47 unsaved wounds.

Mind you the AoSea doesn't have to pick between  taking a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. It just gets both. 14 wounds with a 4+ vs 12 wounds with a 3+  the 12 wounds is quite abit better (and the AoSea can heal every turn if you forgo rerolling... which adds something to durability).  both have the same base move and the avatar doesn't degrade.  Both in army have access to pretty good ways of getting them to charge turn 1 if you wanted. That said the AoSea has to give up spell to do this. Going to hazard that this thing will be pretty pricey points wise.  going for 300-400pts.

Edit: also note that if what i heard from the twitch stream is correct. The ritual is a heal that give the edolan??? Meaning thats 3d3 healing this model can potentially give itself in a turn. Mean if need be it can heal itself just about half its wounds

[Themoocher]

1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

 both have the same base move and the avatar doesn't degrade.

the two aspects have different movements. the Aspect of the Sea only has a 10 movement, the Aspect of the Storm has 12 base movement.

[mmimzie]

Just now, Themoocher said:

the two aspects have different movements. the Aspect of the Sea only has a 10 movement, the Aspect of the Storm has 12 base movement.

I have no idea why people don't just read my post??? Like all of the words matter... <.<.....

I was making a comparison to the Lord of Change...

[Themoocher]

Just now, mmimzie said:

I have no idea why people don't just read my post??? Like all of the words matter... <.<.....

I was making a comparison to the Lord of Change...

i did and it is good to make the point that the eidolons have different movements. not sure if people saw that.

[Burf]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

 

 

So we knew they weren't monsters since the white dwarf. As the warscroll was in there and relatively clear as well. 

That said how strong are they./ The psyker version if we compare to a melee lord of change (assume both get into melee):

against liberators:
LoC: 5.111 unsaved wounds

AoSea: 5.47 unsaved wounds.

Mind you the AoSea doesn't have to pick between  taking a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. It just gets both. 14 wounds with a 4+ vs 12 wounds with a 3+  the 12 wounds is quite abit better (and the AoSea can heal every turn if you forgo rerolling... which adds something to durability).  both have the same base move and the avatar doesn't degrade.  Both in army have access to pretty good ways of getting them to charge turn 1 if you wanted. That said the AoSea has to give up spell to do this. Going to hazard that this thing will be pretty pricey points wise.  going for 300-400pts.

Edit: also note that if what i heard from the twitch stream is correct. The ritual is a heal that give the edolan??? Meaning thats 3d3 healing this model can potentially give itself in a turn. Mean if need be it can heal itself just about half its wounds

Why would you waste your time comparing their melee stats? That's literally the least relevant thing about either the lord of change or the eidolon. You might as well be comparing their shoe sizes for the relevance that actually has on their in game performance.

The idolon can go on a balewind and become a 2+ save immune to melee, immune to shooting, highly resistant to spells 12 wound monster that can heal 2d3 wounds per turn and debuff half an army by himself.

Run him up turn one, balewind turn 2, laugh at your opponent for owning a different army turn 3. If he isn't 500pts before the balewind you can probably pack up any army that doesn't use spells as their primary source of damage.0

[Qaz]

Word is he is 400/440 for the two aspects.

[Hoseman]

I like both aspects, the sea is fantastic but the storm I find very fun to play. The combo debuff, retreat, charge, heal and attak is just wow

So as when you say sea can heal 2D3 each turn you mean 1D3 because no re-roll magic spell and 1D3 because of his healing spell. Maybe some turns you could only heal 1D3 that could just be one wound... 

And so going turtle and both aspects I find it cooooool

[Richelieu]

15 hours ago, Qaz said:

Word is he is 400/440 for the two aspects.

I think 440 for Sea sounds appropriate.  He'll be powerful but not game breaking at that cost.  I think debuffs and buffs are going to be more central to this army than any other to date due to what appears to be a very low wound count.

[Jak Shadow]

9 hours ago, Themoocher said:

Anybody else unimpressed by lotann?

Perhaps Soulwarden keyword confers additional abilities? 

[Yawn]

The Namarti are shockingly elite for a unit with half-souls and a name like 'Thralls'. They're probably going to be 140 or 160. Pretty pricey for our mainline troops, but I guess it would have been too strong with the Forgotten Nightmares ability to have screens of cheap troops. 

[Cookiez]

16 minutes ago, Jak Shadow said:

Perhaps Soulwarden keyword confers additional abilities? 

Or else he's one of the most useless scrolls in the game... Which is unfortunate with such a amazing model.

On the other hand - Aspect of the Sea. My god! Every single ability is amazing. Healing 2d3 or at least d3, d6 -1 do hit (!!!), +3 bravery within (not wholly!) 9". Just give him the atrifact with some mortal wounds protection and with his 2+ save he's one of the best models on the table (well, only his cost, if 440 is true, drags him down), and man, he looks like a million dollars.

[Melcavuk]

Depending on points cost the aspect of the sea might just be the best wizard to sit on a balewind vortex. Fantastic save and two good spells along with high wounds and cant be targetted in shooting unless closer than rest of the army.