Kertie Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 I guess I just don't get the whole "they aren't going to make anything new for death" idea? It's counterproductive in a business point of view to lose customers. Maybe people are just naysaying it so when they do reveal new stuff it'll be that much more gratifying? I do get what you guys are saying about it, I just really don't understand why GW would do that? Maybe I'm missing something. I'm not a business manager at all so I really can't say one way or the other how they should run the company, it just wouldn't make sense to hype things up so much for death and then let it fall on it's face because they didn't release any new models for the battletome. Why rehash the grand alliance death book with a fancy new cover and maybe some new traits and abilities? Seems like a missed opportunity and a bit of a waste. Sorry for the rant I'm just trying to understand. Not meaning any offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skool Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Looks like we might be getting kit bashes again based on the "leaked" warscrolls. Which I am just so damned happy about.... At least the Aelfes stuff looks really cool!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, Kertie said: I guess I just don't get the whole "they aren't going to make anything new for death" idea? It's counterproductive in a business point of view to lose customers. Maybe people are just naysaying it so when they do reveal new stuff it'll be that much more gratifying? I do get what you guys are saying about it, I just really don't understand why GW would do that? Maybe I'm missing something. I'm not a business manager at all so I really can't say one way or the other how they should run the company, it just wouldn't make sense to hype things up so much for death and then let it fall on it's face because they didn't release any new models for the battletome. Why rehash the grand alliance death book with a fancy new cover and maybe some new traits and abilities? Seems like a missed opportunity and a bit of a waste. Sorry for the rant I'm just trying to understand. Not meaning any offence. It's more the fact where will they put the release window of the LON? It should be soon considering they have actually shown us the battle tome. Plus a person at the event has stated they have been told there is nothing new in there. The announcement for LON was so minor compared to daughters of Khaine and in the very same seminar they stated that another aelf faction is coming. NOTHING on death. Not even a hint. Now I would like to be wrong but I am not hopeful at all. Think about it big death event Malign portents. Oh sorry guys it wasn't Death but Aelves yup they are the big shebang and even more aelves are coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burf Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, shinros said: It's more the fact where will they put the release window of the LON? It should be soon considering they have actually shown us the battle tome. Plus a person at the event has stated they have been told there is nothing new in there. The announcement for LON was so minor compared to daughters of Khaine and in the very same seminar they stated that another aelf faction is coming. NOTHING on death. Not even a hint. Now I would like to be wrong but I am not hopeful at all. Think about it big death event Malign portents. Oh sorry guys it wasn't Death but Aelves yup they are the big shebang and even more aelves are coming. LoN should be up for preorder next saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, Burf said: LoN should be up for preorder next saturday. *heavily sighs* Think on the bright side shinros new lore! Spells for everyone! Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Models are important. Rules shake ups dont breathe the same life (well, unlife) into a faction. They don't bring in the new players. And our aesthetic is hopelessly rooted in the old world, outside of deathlords, zombie dragon/gheist, throne/engine, and vargs/horrors, nothing in the line has the high fantasy feel of age of sigmar, it all looks and feels like what it is - leftovers from the abandoned setting of a retired game. 3 minutes ago, Kertie said: Sorry for the rant I'm just trying to understand. Not meaning any offence. None taken. At gw, my understanding is that the model pipeline doesn't start with rules writers or suits. Nobody or mostly nobody says 'we need new stuff for X army, make that". It starts with concept artists and digital sculptors bouncing ideas back and forth. What they have ideas for get made, and rules and fluff writers work around that. If rules or fluff people need a release that the artists dont have ideas for, then they work with the existing line, and that's it. Now, look at the shadespire skeletons. Nice models, sure, but compare them to the existing deathrattle kits. Do you see anything new? Any creative flourishes to imply the art department is sitting on some bolt of inspiration vis a vis the undead? Same with the Knight of shrouds, great model, sure, but can you point to anything about it, anything at all, that would have made it feel out of place as a release for the 8th ed vamp count book 5 years ago? No. The art folks don't seem to have any inspiration for the undead, so they'll sit in limbo while other stuff they do have ideas for get updated, and the rules writers put out a few more no-release battle tomes in the mean time to try and keep whatever death players are left from drifting away. For my part, LoN is going to have to be one heck of a battle tome to keep me here. And the rumors I'm hearing out of lvo, while certainly interesting, are far from promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Sception said: Models are important. Rules shake ups dont breathe the same life (well, unlife) into a faction. They don't bring in the new players. And our aesthetic is hopelessly rooted in the old world, outside of deathlords, zombie dragon/gheist, throne/engine, and vargs/horrors, nothing in the line has the high fantasy feel of age of sigmar, it all looks and feels like what it is - leftovers from the abandoned setting of a retired game. None taken. At gw, my understanding is that the model pipeline doesn't start with rules writers or suits. Nobody or mostly nobody says 'we need new stuff for X army, make that". It starts with concept artists and digital sculptors bouncing ideas back and forth. What they have ideas for get made, and rules and fluff writers work around that. If rules or fluff people need a release that the artists dont have ideas for, then they work with the existing line, and that's it. Now, look at the shadespire skeletons. Nice models, sure, but compare them to the existing deathrattle kits. Do you see anything new? Any creative flourishes to imply the art department is sitting on some bolt of inspiration vis a vis the undead? Same with the Knight of shrouds, great model, sure, but can you point to anything about it, anything at all, that would have made it feel out of place as a release for the 8th ed vamp count book 5 years ago? No. The art folks don't seem to have any inspiration for the undead, so they'll sit in limbo while other stuff they do have ideas for get updated, and the rules writers put out a few more no-release battle tomes in the mean time to try and keep whatever death players are left from drifting away. For my part, LoN is going to have to be one heck of a battle tome to keep me here. And the rumors I'm hearing out of lvo, while certainly interesting, are far from promising. What makes it sad is that there is things they could do. Frankenstein like zombies, dark magical constructs infused with the souls of the dead, more crazy vampiric beasts, lichie priests and vampires stylised like mannfred, arkhan, neferata etc. *sighs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burf Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Sception said: Models are important. Rules shake ups dont breathe the same life (well, unlife) into a faction. They don't bring in the new players. And our aesthetic is hopelessly rooted in the old world, outside of deathlords, zombie dragon/gheist, throne/engine, and vargs/horrors, nothing in the line has the high fantasy feel of age of sigmar, it all looks and feels like what it is - leftovers from the abandoned setting of a retired game. None taken. At gw, my understanding is that the model pipeline doesn't start with rules writers or suits. Nobody or mostly nobody says 'we need new stuff for X army, make that". It starts with concept artists and digital sculptors bouncing ideas back and forth. What they have ideas for get made, and rules and fluff writers work around that. If rules or fluff people need a release that the artists dont have ideas for, then they work with the existing line, and that's it. Now, look at the shadespire skeletons. Nice models, sure, but compare them to the existing deathrattle kits. Do you see anything new? Any creative flourishes to imply the art department is sitting on some bolt of inspiration vis a vis the undead? Same with the Knight of shrouds, great model, sure, but can you point to anything about it, anything at all, that would have made it feel out of place as a release for the 8th ed vamp count book 5 years ago? No. The art folks don't seem to have any inspiration for the undead, so they'll sit in limbo while other stuff they do have ideas for get updated, and the rules writers put out a few more no-release battle tomes in the mean time to try and keep whatever death players are left from drifting away. For my part, LoN is going to have to be one heck of a battle tome to keep me here. And the rumors I'm hearing out of lvo, while certainly interesting, are far from promising. I mean, I understand being frustrated but I think 2 main issues are coming up here. 1. You're forming a lot of hard opinions based on you own unverified assumptions in order to support your anger. Isn't it much MORE likely that they mesh very well with current models because they're SUPPOSED to? The Ironjaws/Skaven/FyreSlayers/bloodbound warband are all homogenous to their armies. 2. This one is more my personal thing but giving up on an army you like due to lack of releases is a bit weak-in-the-knees to me. Shelving for a bit, stopping purchases, sure. But not giving up. I play Sisters of Battle in 40k and we've had the same terrible rules and old models for going on 20yrs now. Compared to that, I personally feel death is relatively okay at the moment. It's a bit shite to be sure, but always remember 'at least you're not Sisters'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I think death will get a new battletome somewhere in the months leading to summer. Or maybe in summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skool Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, stratigo said: I think death will get a new battletome somewhere in the months leading to summer. Or maybe in summer. lol yeah it's called Legions of Nagash!!! We will see, but at this rate I'm telling my fellow death players do not expect to get new models ever. There is no point of being let down over and over again. Just wait and if it happens it happens. If it doesn't then you won't be let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlooDeck Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Death not getting new models isn't surprising due to how they've been treated so far. But to have a Death focused campaign with literally one new Death model is pretty disheartening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 The shadespire skeletons are the best modes GW has released in a long period of time in my books. Why change what is not broken? I bet I'm not the only one wanting classic skeletons for their undead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kertie Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 I guess I should've expected to open the proverbial can of worms starting this thread. I agree with @Burf and that giving up on an army or even a game as enveloping as Warhammer over a lack of releases is a bit of a shame. I mean to each their own and if that's what is keeping you involved in the game then that's fine. We all no at some point there will be new releases and at least they are giving us something in the form of a battletome to tide us over until they hash out something else. I've read so many negative opinions about gw, and the game over the past few months it's incredible. I personally love Warhammer and everything about it and I applaud them for doing so much not just for competitive gamers, but casual gamers as well. They've developed an amazing community that my wife and I are proud to be a part of. Call me a fan boy or whatever the term for it is if you'd like but I can find a hundred things that are great about the game and a handful of things that aren't. Yes the release schedule the past year has been stormcast and chaos centric but the stuff they have released has been over the top. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the lack of releases discouraging people and putting such harsh opinions out there isn't growing the community but hindering it, and if we all want this game to thrive instead of going the way of the old world than we should accept things for how they are and enjoy what has come out and been revealed instead of putting down the stuff that hasn't based on rumors, speculation and tangents. After all, we are all here to have fun with friends and talk about the game we all love, not love to hate. Again sorry for the rant. I'm not trying to pigeon hole anyone for there opinion or cause waves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 The point isnt to change what isnt broken, but to add new stuff that will bring the rest into conceptual relevance in AoS. But whether you want actually new undead stuff, or just more of the same, we're in for disappointment either way, because its looking like no new undead models at all, apart from the KoS, for the foreseeable future. As for judging LoN as a battletole in its own right, there's a lot that hasn't been seen yet, but what has leaked looks like more nerf than buff. Not a great sign for death players struggling after GH'17 and the compendium updates, what with unit healing now tied to expensive, snipeable heroes instead of free hidden banners, and etherial units that are unaffected by positive save modifiers like cover and mystic shield, not just negative modifiers like rend. .................................. On a more positive, non death related note, the witch elf stuff really does look super nice. The new harpies in particular I like, the infantry queen is great, and the glimpse of a giant, serpentine morathi was especially exciting. Should be one heck of a release. And the ancient greek aesthetic? Fantastic choice. I'm surprised I never made that connection with the dark elves myself, what with their harpies, hydras, manticores, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 As long as new releases aren't stormcasts I'm happy. Doesn't matter whether those are aelfs, grots or vampires. Sure, I wanted aelfs more than other races but still I would be ok if in its place there was an undead release. Everything (almost) that expands AoS minis range is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samanar Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Can't wait for the High Elves to return. I mean Witch Aelves are amazing but man... High Elves are my kind of thing. White Lions and Swordmasters especially - can't wait for them. Hopefully they'll come from the Realm of Light, led by Tyrion/Teclis. One can dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorticulusTGA Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 hours ago, shinros said: Pretty much they even said in the seminar another aelf faction is coming nothing on Death. So I am just going to say if there are no new models I expect a lot of disappointed people IMO. Said it in the malign portent thread Aelves are upstaging death in an event they started. 10:44 – AoS More Aelves coming up... So it goes along the existing rumors, that will get two Aelf factions in the forthcoming months ? (Probably shadow - sea - Malerion aelves) AWESOME ! And my friend, to let Nurgle despair take you soul ! GW reacted first to the people wanting Aelves, but the whole Malign Portents stuff shows they have not forgotten about Death. And it's IMO pretty confirmed (by all the Facebook comments, WarCom hints, and the whole narrative direction of MP) that Death WILL gets its turn ! They just couldn't do both at the same time, so decided to start with Aleves (probably for money reason) and then Death. But this summer / next half of 2018 will see new Deaths models I am convinced. And even if it looks like a stopgap, Legions of Nagash is great ; because rules and fluff. Keep faith in Nagash shinros ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaaras Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 With the Death not getting new models... around the end times (what, two years ago) Nagash, the Mortarchs, the Morghasts were all released. Big. impressive new models for Death players. Those aren't all that old really. If you mean your battle line skellies and zombies, yes they are showing their age, but what line doesn't have old models still floating around? Ironjawz are still rocking black orks, chaos marauders, anything from a lot of the old empire and aelf ranges. The only ones that are rocking exclusively new models would be what, KO, Sylvaneth to a degree (some of those were around end times as well I think) Khorne Bloodbound, Tzeentch, and a lot of Nurgle now has been revamped. So that would be, all the the new tomes. Yes its disappointing that there aren't new models, but noting that the Mortarchs and the Boss man aren't old by Bretonnian standards, then GW probably felt that Death players have the models they need and want to support. There are lots of sub-factions that need attention, and it is strange that with MP on the horizon that they aren't doing something more, but with Nagash and the Mortarchs and the dragons already in the line, would a box of newly imagined skeletons really get people excited? Perhaps, but noting that other armies got big models when their tomes were dropped (Sylvaneth, Ironjawz, KO) what new big model could GW release? Ranting, granted, but Death has a lot of new-ish, big models already and GW probably didn't see a reason to make any more. The old vampire lords really do need work though. Will pay that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlooDeck Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, kaaras said: Ranting, granted, but Death has a lot of new-ish, big models already and GW probably didn't see a reason to make any more. When you create a new storyline with Death taking the central stage, it isn't unreasonable to expect Death to get some love in the model department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still-young Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just because they aren’t here now doesn’t mean they’re not coming. The Nagash book is probably just an easy way to bring everything up to date rules wise in one go, and then new stuff will be added later in the campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 That's very likely. It seems that they are tinkering with the basic mechanis for thw whole faction with thw "summonable"keyword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyB Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I'm sure they've said somewhere that LoN is not it for death in malign portent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 If I were to make decisions, I would start the new death models with new zombies, new fell bats / bat swarms and a vampire thrall unit on foot + plastic blood knights. A lot of the "old" death models are actually quite new, including many of the discontinued Tomb kings kits. They are just bit cursed from being from the era when GW switched to digital sculpting and CAD plastic mould making, as many of the transition period models are just ...not very nice, to say it politely. Nagash, morghasts and mortarchs are in my books already AoS era models, even if they originally were released on squares. Same actually applies to some of the most recent elves as well, like the witch elves and the latest wood elf stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 hours ago, kaaras said: With the Death not getting new models... around the end times (what, two years ago) More than three years ago. More than five years ago for 8th ed models like the mortis engine. And while allegiance abilities, spells, and formations could absolutely still turn things around, most of the war scroll changes have leaked, and bring more nerfs than buffs, mostly in the form of healing tied to expensive, snipeable heroes instead of free hidden banners, necromancers that can only buff or pass wounds to summonable units (no more necromancer synergy with ghouls, no more vanhels on arkhan, no more bouncing mortal wounds to archai to ping off their armor), and ethereals that no longer benefit from mystic shield or cover. For the most part stats and abilities on the rest are unchanged, so those hoping for, say, more durable mortarchs to weather the games much deadlier shooting phases these days are out of luck. AGAIN, allegiance stuff, spells, and formations could absolutely still turn this all around, but it'd be a bit of a hail mary play at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just want to point this out for those of you who are getting grumpy about Legions of Our Saviour. We are still currently 26 days into 2018 with 339 left. There is still plenty of time for other stuff to come out as we are still having stuff revealed to us all of the time. If nothing happens this year, well okay but I'm sure the wait will be worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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