Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[DantePQ]

@zedatkinszed I agree, that you need to prepare for it and embrace it as forcing to go down to 3 drops is a lot of sacrifice and still many lists will go first. 

[Richelieu]

9 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

@zedatkinszed I agree, that you need to prepare for it and embrace it as forcing to go down to 3 drops is a lot of sacrifice and still many lists will go first. 

From a brief review of top ten tournament finishes in the past few months, the average number of drops seems to be closer to 5.  Very few lists are getting into the 1-3 range and if they're doing so, they are usually making sacrifices in other areas (some exceptions apply).   I do prefer the approach of "plan for your opponent choosing who goes first" though. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

I'm actually pretty relaxed about going first or second. I only ever get the choice when I play Fatesworn (1 drop) and I haven't played many games with it. My other armies are all lots of drops so I never get the choice.

I just deploy to try and handle alpha strikes if my opponent has that option, and then go with whatever happens. If I do get the choice its just a bonus. Actually i'm probably more confused if I get the choice but i'm less used to it!!

[Richelieu]

3 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I'm actually pretty relaxed about going first or second. I only ever get the choice when I play Fatesworn (1 drop) and I haven't played many games with it. My other armies are all lots of drops so I never get the choice.

I just deploy to try and handle alpha strikes if my opponent has that option, and then go with whatever happens. If I do get the choice its just a bonus. Actually i'm probably more confused if I get the choice but i'm less used to it!!

One thing I enjoy doing against Tzeentch when they make me go first is basically doing nothing other than shuffling around a bit to get into position to counterattack if they come at me.  Then it puts them in the awkward position of either also just playing conservatively or chancing the double turn.  I also pass on the opportunity for double turns pretty regularly unless it will put me in an overwhelmingly advantageous position.  You could characterize my play style as "risk averse" unless I think the matchup is thoroughly in my opponent's favor based on army comp, in which case you sometimes have to just roll the dice.

[Keldaur]

It's also funny with khailebron and the opponent's get confused when he realizes that you can easilly spot the changeling lol. Had a funny one yesterday with that.

[Twitch of Izalith]

I'm hoping they bring in 40k first turn priority rules in GH2018 (roll of with +1 for whoever finishes deploying first) - just to mix things up a bit. Guessing a lot of battalions will get cheaper if they do that.

 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I'm hoping they bring in 40k first turn priority rules in GH2018 (roll of with +1 for whoever finishes deploying first) - just to mix things up a bit. Guessing a lot of battalions will get cheaper if they do that.

 

I agree.  It's kind of cheesy for a 1-drop list to purposely set up out of range to secure second turn every time and bank on that double.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

5 hours ago, Kaleun said:

How can we get the drops down? I can only imagine a 3 drop list like so:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- General
Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (160)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
Cauldron Guard (100)
Slaughter Troupe (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 104

this is just theory crafting as I havent got my Battletome yet.

Lowest drops with Morathi is 2, and lowest drop iirc is with Temple Nest under Khailebron, as you can include 2 more Melusai units, one of which will be your 3rd battleline requirement, and the other will be another Bloodwrack. 

2-Drop w/ Morathi:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
Temple Nest (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

1-Drop w/o Morathi:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
10 x Blood Stalkers (320)
10 x Blood Stalkers (320)
Temple Nest (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129
 

I couldn't imagine shooting 20 Blood Stalkers at something and having 20 Blood Sisters with Mystic Shield, but it's a bit glass-cannony and not very good imo without prayer support.  Melusai are great imo, but pretty frail without stacking Cauldron + Mystic Shield.  I've thought about Hag Narr Melusai buffed up with Catechism of Murder, Blessing of Khaine, Mystic Shield, Mindrazor... utter death.

[Richelieu]

6 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

I've thought about Hag Narr Melusai buffed up with Catechism of Murder, Blessing of Khaine, Mystic Shield, Mindrazor... utter death.

Yes, the Snakestar™ is very tempting but I think a unit of ten that is mildly buffed would probably be more effective on the table.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

On 3/9/2018 at 7:26 PM, Richelieu said:

Yes, the Snakestar™ is very tempting but I think a unit of ten that is mildly buffed would probably be more effective on the table.

True, but a line of 20 wrapping up absolutely everything that it can and laying the -2 rend, 2dmg hits, mortal wounds, all multiplying in a deadly flurry, is WAY too enticing.

4-Drop:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples 
- Artefact: Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet 
- Prayer: Catechsim of Murder
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
10 x Blood Stalkers (320)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
Temple Nest (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
 

Allows the 5+ Fanatic save, as well as offering Mystic Shield and Cauldron bonuses for a 3+ base save for your Blood Sisters, but requires you to keep them in range of both the Shrine and Cauldron (Iron Circlet so you basically always get your Catechism on something).  Feel free to swap out Khaine blessing instead of Katechism for more durability on your Sisters.

[Burf]

6 hours ago, Keldaur said:

No, Khailebron must have that command trait INSTEAD of the ones in page 51. Morathi can't get any trait whatsoever.

"Morathi is the supreme leader of the Daughters of Khaine, with her own personality and items of terrifying power. As such, she cannot have any additional command traits or artefacts of power in either of her forms"

Agreed, this one is pretty darn ambiguous. Until an FAQ I'd say both interpretations are totally reasonable.

[Richelieu]

3 minutes ago, Burf said:

Agreed, this one is pretty darn ambiguous. Until an FAQ I'd say both interpretations are totally reasonable.

Yep, precisely the type of scenario where an FAQ is useful.  Glad they decided to issue them after every battletome.

[Resolv]

1 hour ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Cierto, pero una línea de 20 terminando absolutamente todo lo que puede y tirando -2, 2dmg hits, heridas mortales, todo se multiplica en una ráfaga mortal, es MUY tentador.

4-Drop:

Lealtad: Hijas de Khaine
- Templo: Hagg Nar
Santuario de Bloodwrack  (220)
-  General
-  Rasgo: Dedicado Desciples 
-  Artefacto: Shadow Stone 
-  Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa  (140)
Hag Queen en Cauldron Of Blood  (300 )
-  Artefacto:  Cinta de hierro
-  Oración: Catechsim of Murder
20 x Blood Sisters  (480)
5 x Blood Sisters  (140)
5 x Blood Sisters  (140)
10 x Blood Stalkers  (320)
5 x Blood Stalkers  (160)
Temple Nest  (80)

Total:  1980/2000
Aliados:  0/400
Heridas:  122
 

Permite 5+ Fanáticos, además de ofrecer bonificaciones Mystic Shield y Cauldron para una salvación de 3+ bases para tus Blood Sisters, pero requiere que las mantengas al alcance tanto del Santuario como del Cauldron (Iron Circlet, así que básicamente siempre obtienes tu Catecismo en algo). Siéntase libre de cambiar la bendición de Khaine en lugar de Katechism para una mayor durabilidad de sus hermanas.

This list isnt true. U need three battleline a u online have, becausem the tmple hag naa dont let it put another line of blood sisters. Obligate temple to put battleline blood sisters.

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, Resolv said:

This list isnt true. U need three battleline a u online have, becausem the tmple hag naa dont let it put another line of blood sisters. Obligate temple to put battleline blood sisters.

The Bloodwrack as general makes Blood Sisters battleline regardless of battalion or temple so its legal

[Malakithe]

I like this as a 3 drop. Probably not the most competitive but Its with the models I like the most. Could always move the 20 to be come 3x10 instead. That way its more target saturation and less gang up on the big group of snakes first. When you set up something with any form of off board abilities it still counts as a drop right?

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Mistress of Illusion 
- Artefact: Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair
Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)
- Artefact: Khainite Pendant 
- Prayer: Catechsim of Murder
Battleline
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (160)
Battalions
Temple Nest (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122

[Blood&skulls]

Correct

[Keldaur]

6 hours ago, Burf said:

Agreed, this one is pretty darn ambiguous. Until an FAQ I'd say both interpretations are totally reasonable.

To be completely honest, when the FAQ is released  I have very little doubts that Morathi will be able to be the general of any temple, just that she won't be able to take the trait. Not because how it is written now, but because it's Morathi and it would make zero sense otherwise.

 

[Burf]

2 hours ago, Keldaur said:

To be completely honest, when the FAQ is released  I have very little doubts that Morathi will be able to be the general of any temple, just that she won't be able to take the trait. Not because how it is written now, but because it's Morathi and it would make zero sense otherwise.

 

 Especially Hagg Narr considering that's HER city.

[DantePQ]

Ok I think I will try this army soon with HaggNar :

Slaughter Queen + Amulet of Dark Fire + Blessing of Khaine Prayer

Morathi + Mindrazor

Medusa + option a) Crystal Heart + Shroud of Despar option b) Rune of Ulglu + Withering 

Hag Queen + Sacrament of Blood 

Hag Queen + Crimson Rejuvenation

30 Sisters of Slaughter 

30 Witch Elves

10 Sisters of Slaughter 

5 Heartrenders

5 Heartrenders

Slaughter Troupe 

A lot of prayers, two very tough to deal with big models (morathi and Cauldron), a lot of magic (up to 5 spells a turn), two bick blocks of witches, some heartrenders, also slaughter troupe gives my another artefact and makes and cuts down drops a little (it doesn't matter much know I know but I think ability for Medusa to cast two spells - shroud of despair and enfeebing foe - having 4+ and 5+ casting rolls or having +1 to cast with re-rolls for Mindrazor/Withering is worht it). Also prayers were chosen to play to my strenghts - re-rolls of FF, faster re-rolls to hits through Sacrament of Blood and extra healing to heal Medusa or Cauldron. MEdusa should be close to Cauldron to be quite hard to snipe out with extra save and extra FF. Also I got quite good amount of bodies + 2xwitchbrew. I think it should to very good in scenarios with two huge blocks and two hard to move Behemoths, quite mobile too. Also can use the same army with Khelibron (maybe swapping spells on MEdusa to get mirror dance) and tweaking prayers. Khelibron is better when going first/second as enemy might no want to give you first turn thanks to Morathi threat. 

[Oglok]

5 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I like this as a 3 drop.

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron
Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Mistress of Illusion 
- Artefact: Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair
Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)
- Artefact: Khainite Pendant 
- Prayer: Catechsim of Murder
Battleline
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (160)
Battalions
Temple Nest (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122

Why everybody count both Shrine and separate Medusa as one drop? I see 4 here: Temple nest + Medusa + Hag + Khinerai, am I wrong somewhere?

[Malakithe]

32 minutes ago, Oglok said:

Why everybody count both Shrine and separate Medusa as one drop? I see 4 here: Temple nest + Medusa + Hag + Khinerai, am I wrong somewhere?

Khailebron allows for 2 additional snakes in the Temple nest. The Bloodwracks have the snake keyword so they can be included

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Khailebron allows for 2 additional snakes in the Temple nest. The Bloodwracks have the snake keyword so they can be included

Correct.

Seems like a lot of people either:

1. Don't have the Battletome

2. Can't read their Battletome

[Oglok]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Khailebron allows for 2 additional snakes in the Temple nest. The Bloodwracks have the snake keyword so they can be included

Oh, now I see, melusai keyword, yes. Thnx. Just bought the book.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

1 hour ago, Oglok said:

Oh, now I see, melusai keyword, yes. Thnx. Just bought the book.

It's okay!  I joke around with people a lot.

[Aelfric]

Do you think we might see rules for Khelt Nar once Slaanesh gets free.  They seem to have been set up to fight Chaos, perhaps as an insurance policy by Morathi for when that time comes.