Soulsmith Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 32 minutes ago, Duck1986 said: This could be me being somewhat new to AOS bit where does it say only one can be taken? I thought you could have 4 artillery pieces just as separate units in a 2k battle ? I think he means the Crown of Command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck1986 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 40 minutes ago, Soulsmith said: I think he means the Crown of Command Ah, re-reading I now understand! I thought half of my strategy was out of the window otherwise haha! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Due to Drycha, Decimators and Gaunt Summoners, hordes are unlikely to be viable. They would have to price these things out in the GH2. Drycha is way too common, comes out of nowhere and just melts an insane number of models. Decimators just end hordes of any kind and can drop in at 9" at any time. A Gaunt Summoner is pretty much an "I win" button against any horde army. Sylvaneth and DoT are some of the most popular armies, so its not like you can horde up and just hope you don't run into a problem. Regardless, there are plenty of things boosted by Sayl that can blow out enough of your models that they will completely fall apart in battleshock. Hordes are never going to be very viable while there are so many good specifically-anti-horde things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, WoollyMammoth said: Due to Drycha, Decimators and Gaunt Summoners, hordes are unlikely to be viable. They would have to price these things out in the GH2. Drycha is way too common, comes out of nowhere and just melts an insane number of models. Decimators just end hordes of any kind and can drop in at 9" at any time. A Gaunt Summoner is pretty much an "I win" button against any horde army. Sylvaneth and DoT are some of the most popular armies, so its not like you can horde up and just hope you don't run into a problem. Regardless, there are plenty of things boosted by Sayl that can blow out enough of your models that they will completely fall apart in battleshock. Hordes are never going to be very viable while there are so many good specifically-anti-horde things. While i disagree that hordes cant be viable (i think they can), the existence of so many anti-horde tools will prevent them from just steamrolling people. They may take a tournament or two but the meta will start sprinkling counters in, just as the DoT stuff made people scramble for answers to skyfires. Which is the purpose of this exercise, to showcase that hordes will never be unstoppable because of the existing warscrolls that have built in bonuses specifically against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marius Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 6 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said: Hordes are never going to be very viable while there are so many good specifically-anti-horde things. Lol, in the other thread we have someone's whole gaming group quitting AoS because hordes will be the new must-take unit and they dont want to paint all those infantry! Im gonna predict the actual impact of the new rules will be a bit more variety in armies. The mention of ratling guns instead of warpfire throwers on stormfiends fills me with hope that we might see some previously overlooked units and weapon options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Captain Marius said: ... and they dont want to paint all those infantry! Crazy, huh? Can you imagine? Having to paint toy soldiers in a hobby all about painted toy soldiers? I mean, sheesh, who wants to actually enjoy this hobby if it means not being able to complain and be waac in equal measures? As if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heywoah_twitch Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 38 minutes ago, Auticus said: A lot of gamers aren't in it for the hobby they are in it for the game and the game only. Look at polls asking if people prefer expensive books with fluff and art, or just the game rules but cheaper, and the massive majority swell towards just the game rules and cheaper. If the models came prepainted and assembled already, I bet you that you'd pull in a ton more players that can't stand hobbying or having to do any of that stuff. I think you are almost certainly right, though it would have pushed me away from jumping into the hobby (two weeks ago!). I've casually observed warhammer and 40k products for a decade or so, but the rules have been frustratingly poor which kept me out. The AOS rules have, for the first time to me, seemed palatable enough to actually want to play the game, besides always being interested in the hobby and fluff aspect. The rules are still wobbly (and woefully in need of proper language consistency and definitive meanings, and fixing obvious oversights and balance), but they are streamlined enough now to be some light fun. If I want to stoke my competetive side using a quality, tight rule system, I'll go to the next MtG Grand Prix (and I will - as I keep telling myself, magic is for competition and aos is for fun, we'll see if I can hold myself to it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddin Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Rolling Thunderhead on Stardrakes, similar to the Medusa ability. (on a 6+ but 18 inch range) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 6 hours ago, Auticus said: A lot of gamers aren't in it for the hobby they are in it for the game and the game only. Look at polls asking if people prefer expensive books with fluff and art, or just the game rules but cheaper, and the massive majority swell towards just the game rules and cheaper. If the models came prepainted and assembled already, I bet you that you'd pull in a ton more players that can't stand hobbying or having to do any of that stuff. Pre painted would get me buying a lot more, I just don't have much time for painting nor do I enjoy that part much. Love those campaign books though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 On 8/3/2017 at 7:53 AM, Captain Marius said: Lol, in the other thread we have someone's whole gaming group quitting AoS because hordes will be the new must-take unit and they dont want to paint all those infantry! As if most of the hordes you see are nicely painted as it is. If they are rage quitting that they need hordes, they are "I just want to win a tournament" kind of players. Good riddance. Every 18 skyfire list will take a gaunt summoner on vortex, and so will never lose a game to hordes. On 8/3/2017 at 10:53 AM, Auticus said: If the models came prepainted and assembled already, I bet you that you'd pull in a ton more players that can't stand hobbying or having to do any of that stuff. You can buy all the pre-painted and assembled models you like on eBay. If you want to commission a horde army it will likely cost you about $10k. If GW sold pre-painted armies, it would probably cost closer to $20k. GW is not known for making things cheaper and more accessible. They are known for making things awesome and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokapoke Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 minute ago, WoollyMammoth said: If you want to commission a horde army it will likely cost you about $10k. My goodness, are you building hordes of Varanguard? No way anybody in their right mind tries to charge you anything close to that. And there's certainly no way that anybody reasonable will pay that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, rokapoke said: My goodness, are you building hordes of Varanguard? No way anybody in their right mind tries to charge you anything close to that. And there's certainly no way that anybody reasonable will pay that. Honestly I don't know much about commission. I know a guy who commissioned a skaven army from a golden daemon winning painter and he said he spent over $10k. I can imagine getting a box set of stormcast and having it commissioned is not bad, but a large horde army is very expensive to buy alone. These kinds of armies go up on ebay for like $7000, and not necessarily painted. You can probably order 'tabletop quality' from some companies for a decent price I would assume. But if you combine the cost of so many models with paying someone to paint so many models, its not going to be anything reasonably affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokapoke Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said: Honestly I don't know much about commission. I know a guy who commissioned a skaven army from a golden daemon winning painter and he said he spent over $10k. I can imagine getting a box set of stormcast and having it commissioned is not bad, but a large horde army is very expensive to buy alone. These kinds of armies go up on ebay for like $7000, and not necessarily painted. You can probably order 'tabletop quality' from some companies for a decent price I would assume. But if you combine the cost of so many models with paying someone to paint so many models, its not going to be anything reasonably affordable. Well if your entire horde is to be painted on a model-by-model Golden Daemon standard, you could pay $10K without blinking an eye. Around here (northeast Ohio) I get the impression that the going rate for painting a unit is at or below the cost of the unit. No, you won't get Golden Daemon standard paint jobs, but it's above tabletop quality. So if you shell out $2K for the army, you'll pay an additional $2K (or less) for the paint job. And $2K gets you a LOT of units, horde or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 22 minutes ago, rokapoke said: Well if your entire horde is to be painted on a model-by-model Golden Daemon standard, you could pay $10K without blinking an eye. Around here (northeast Ohio) I get the impression that the going rate for painting a unit is at or below the cost of the unit. No, you won't get Golden Daemon standard paint jobs, but it's above tabletop quality. So if you shell out $2K for the army, you'll pay an additional $2K (or less) for the paint job. And $2K gets you a LOT of units, horde or otherwise. Its probably like anything else; you can be thrifty. You can look for deals on ebay and carefully build your collection cheaply, assemble it yourself and then have a commission painter make it tabletop for you for a good price. I was pointing out with a horde army, you have to buy more models, and have more models painted, which is going to be a lot of money overall (especially if the horde is Fyreslayers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 2 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said: These kinds of armies go up on ebay for like $7000, and not necessarily painted. Wait so someone is selling unpainted horde armies on eBay for 7k!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokapoke Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Carnelian said: Wait so someone is selling unpainted horde armies on eBay for 7k!?!?!? "Listing" is different from "selling"... I highly doubt anybody is successfully selling unpainted armies for $7000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 3 hours ago, rokapoke said: Well if your entire horde is to be painted on a model-by-model Golden Daemon standard, you could pay $10K without blinking an eye. Around here (northeast Ohio) I get the impression that the going rate for painting a unit is at or below the cost of the unit. No, you won't get Golden Daemon standard paint jobs, but it's above tabletop quality. So if you shell out $2K for the army, you'll pay an additional $2K (or less) for the paint job. And $2K gets you a LOT of units, horde or otherwise. Cincinnati ohio here, dont know about local comissions (the one painter i do have i tend to just pay the price of the box for) but if you look online $5 for an infantry model is the cheapest you'll find. Most will charge $10-20 for tabletop quality. So while 10k might be overkill itll still be plenty expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Sorry I meant like $700. Probably wont get a whole lot of bids on things over $1000, even a large army lot. If you are looking to sell a very well painted army for more, you would probably go through better channels than eBay. Okay now I'm interested. Lets say I want to do a new Skaven horde list with 120 stormvermin. That's 6 boxes at 49.50, about $300. Frontline Gaming does army commissions:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TSFK-1LxnzJl6e8EHdpR3KJKNgdJSIUH_yGfZXHFu9c/edit#gid=129433116 Assembly cost is $3 per model, for a cost of $360 if you want them to be assembled for you. Tabletop is $10 and better is $20 per model, so you are looking at $1200-2400 for the painting. Basing is $2,$3 or $4 ($240, $360, $480) Assuming you don't want white or yellow, or any decals or freehand, you are looking at a minimum of $1440+model cost, and that is if you buy them and send them assembled. Likely they can get the models for 25% and they assemble and paint them for you, so you are looking at $225+$360+1200+240 .... $2,025 for very basic fully painted tabletop. For top notch quality, that is $225+360+2400+480 = $3,465 for models that are probably going to look really nice, but lacking any free hand wow factors. Stormvermin are a bad example really, because that is 1500 points in the new book. When you are factoring dirt cheap hordes like Skeletons, Zombies, Ghouls, clanrats, skinks, etc., you are likely looking at abut 50% more to get to 1500. Its interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Great topic, thanks for starting . I met the business end of Drycha's swarm this week with my Fyreslayers and...holy ******! I'll be killing her first, in the future ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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