Goddin

Hey all. I was a regular tournament player in 2.0 but haven't played much at all of 3.0 (3 games total). I have a big 2 day tournament coming up and I'm hoping to make a (semi) triumphant return. I liked what I saw in the FAQ fixing relentless discipline. Can someone comment on the legality of my list below (that I put it together correctly) and also any advice for something to improve it? The list is all built and painted except for 1 leige kavalos, so just a little room to play. I think it is 4 drop? It could be 1 drop but I really like the idea of using the helm of the ordained plus bludgeon plus endless duty on a unit of 10 Deathriders, maybe 2 in the same combat phase. Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers- Legion: Petrifex Elite- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs: InspiredLeadersArkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)**- Lore of Mortisans: Protection of NagashLiege-Kavalos (185)*- General- Command Trait: Mighty Archaeossian- Artefact: Helm of the OrdainedMortisan Soulmason (140)**- Lore of Mortisans: Drain VitalityLiege-Kavalos (185)**- Artefact: Godbone ArmourBattleline10 x Kavalos Deathriders (380)*- Nadirite Blade and Shield- Reinforced x 110 x Kavalos Deathriders (380)*- Nadirite Blade and Shield- Reinforced x 110 x Mortek Guard (140)*- Nadirite Blade and Shield- 2x Soulcleaver GreatbladesArtilleryMortek Crawler (215)*Core Battalions*Battle Regiment**Command Entourage - MagnificentAdditional EnhancementsArtefactTotal: 1985 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 113Drops: 4

Probably pallisade. But gravetide has some real synergy with our bloodseeker, so I'm considering that. Thinking about which of my casters might cast the spells.

The real question is whether you go back to 10x5x5 direwolves and shelve the chainrasps all together. 10 direwolves is a very nice screen. That being said, I'm otherwise happier with chainrasps, and they are better on the objectives. I will probably stick with chainrasps, go for a triumph, and maybe look at a cheap endless spell.

I see that in the spell description, sorry I missed that. I don't see it in the actual ability on the Kavalos wascroll.... probably an oversight and may get an FAQ. I would have said it was a great design choice but the spell description undermines that quite a bit.

Bonereapers don't have any strike-first capabilities, so getting them on the charge I think is our best bet. They are also susceptible to rend, as much of the army is relying on Petrifex Elite and their good saves. I think we will generally be better than them with spell casting, except for Arkhan and Nagash. Those two, I'm not sure what to do with. That and large numbers of Mortek Guard re-rolling their saves. As usual with death factions, taking out the support heroes (bone-shapers) will be key. Getting in the catapults face quickly will be important. Hitting stalkers before they can go at us would be good, especially using an ethereal zombie dragon to avoid the precision mode. All in all, too early to have a good feel on the game plan. I do think bonereapers will struggle to get to the objectives and to take them from an army as defensive as Nuhlamia, so missions like 3 places of power and duality of death should still favor Nuhlahmia heavily.

So Kavalos get exploding hits on 5+ when they charge. 4+ if you get the spell off. What I think is amazing is that it goes from and "unmodified 6" to a 5+, allowing your bonuses to hit to actually kick off. So if you have the spears on a charge (5+) and you have the Bone-tithe Shrieker nearby... it becomes a 4+. Add the spell and it becomes a 3+. Add the Helm of the Ordained and all hits (not 1s, which always fail) explode. While everyone is excited about the charging command ability for the Kavalos, the stacking bonuses to hit and exploding hits looks like the main damage source to me. Theory-crafting at its best. The helm may not work as well because it is a wholly within item, but the shrieker should be just fine.

ZLeeSyn makes great points above, on all of them. The other thing I think you fail to realize is how much damage output the list has. 20 Ghouls take an objective? Neferata can fly 16 over there, and put all her attacks in the ghouls and kill 12-14. Rest may run from battleshock. Killing a keeper takes at most 1 battleround from a Zombie Dragon (2 combat phases). Neferata's strength is killing hordes, btw. And yes, pinning your opponent in his deployment zone is a big option. Lastly, yes the Palanquin is mostly around for distraction and for being fast and going to get objectives. He looks scary so opponents often don't try to mess with her, leave her and 10 rasps alone as too hard to take, even if she's actually a wimp. The hero killed ability is awesome when it happens, but it's rare.

Yes, usually after round 2 on Duality of Death. Strat: Take first turn, buff up (2x neferata's ability, get ethereal up), fly to both objectives, pop ghosts from gravesites as screens, hold. Save 1 command point (2 to start, 1 gained on turn 1, 2 spent). Enemy comes at you bottom of round 1. Best scenario now, is to win the roll off, take the 1st turn. You score immediately, you have a chance to regen ghosts who likely took a pounding, use VLoZD chalice and Vile Transference to try to go back to full health. Buff up again, use 2x nef's command ability (all out of command points now). Proceed to whittle down the opponent in combat. Opponent fights some more bottom of round 2. Roll of and win the roll. NOW I think about giving them the other turn. On one hand, if I can score both objectives in my turn, the best they can do is draw. Only have enough points for 1 use of Nef's ability. Often time that is the right move, if I'm losing (enemy shooting get me down, etc.) If I'm still pretty healthy, I MIGHT give them the double. That keeps -2 to hit up longer, rather than -1. The reverse of that is it gives up a chance to heal up ghosts and use Vile Transference. But generally, you want alternating turns so that you can heal up between turns. Best case is going first each round, or going 2nd turn 1, getting the double turn going into round 2, and then alternating.

Yes, I don't have much trouble killing keepers and I can heal up a lot of the damage they do. Plus the -2 to hit and the ethereal together limit the damage output to begin with. I'm 3-1 against Slaanesh in tournament settings, and I lost the last game because they outmaneuvered me with seekers and because I failed a 3 inch charge on a keeper. Keep in mind, I've been playing this army since LoN came out. So I have a lot of tactical knowledge and I know how to play the army very well. Just running straight into the enemy trying to overpower them isn't always the right play - this list is great but you have to get some experience with it to do really well.

@ZLee Syn Some good questions. For all of these answers, I'm using my own list: Legion of Blood Neferata (overwhelming dread, general) Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon (ethereal amulet, transference) Vampire lord on Zombie dragon (orb of enchantment, pinions) Bloodseeker palanquin (amethyst orb) Court of Nulahmia 10 Chainrasps 10 Chainrasps 10 Chainrasps 1CP. 1) Dealing with horde armies can be tough, depending on the mission. They obviously struggle in missions like duality of death or places of arcane power where I can get to the objectives first and then hold them with the durability of this army. On other missions, I deal with it using speed. I like to hit large horde units with one of my powerful heroes on each flank. They struggle with pile ins, minimizing their return damage output. That also traps them in place. I often alpha strike hordes before they have CP for inspiring presence, or just to trap them in their deployment while chainrasps and 1 other unit (usually the palanquin) go for the objectives. The ability to take an objective and then move off it helps a lot in this regard. Chainrasps are surprisingly durable if they have nearby gravesites. Lastly, the insane damage output of this army usually takes on hordes pretty well. 30 vulkite berserkers are the only thing I have really had trouble killing. 2) I hold objectives by putting gravesites near them and letting the chainrasps guard them. My big guys are better used elsewhere, and have the speed to get back to them if necessary. Pinning the opponent in their deployment area also works wonders for securing objectives with just chainrasps. 3) This army is the best Gotrek killing army there is. Read the text for "Orb of Enchantment" carefully. For one combat phase, it stops the opponent from attacking or piling in or using abilities. The last part is the most important. It means Gotrek's 3+FNP ability is disabled for that combat phase. His ability to reduce all sources of damage to 1 damage? Disabled for that combat phase. So I have a zombie dragon moving 18 (23 or 28 if pinions goes off) hunting down Gotrek starting turn 1. Easy to kill him in the 1 combat phase. If the opponent then has to turtle up or screen for Gotrek that is 1/4 of his army that is neutered, all for the cost of 1 artefact. P.S. this also works on Morathi. Both of these opponents can be 1 shot by my VLoZD in 1 round. The army does still have some weaknesses, and won't probably win most big tournaments. But it is certainly competitive in the highest levels. Only 3 things scare me when using this army: Terrorgheists (they are fishing for unmodified sixes, so my minuses to hit do nothing to them and they reroll for those sixes); Skaven with long range shooting outside my bubbles of minus to hit, often with heavy mortal wounds that bypass my good saves; and 30 Hearthguard berzerkers all buffed up (they attack first, are impossible to kill, and have lots of attacks doing mortal wounds on unmodified sixes to hit). I have never gone below 3-2 with this army in a major tournament, and I've gone 5-0 at the largest tournament in Texas this year with this list. I can usually still hang with FEC, avoiding the specific types of Skaven and Fyreslayer armies mentioned above is the only luck I really need to compete for the top tables.

No, because they are both CP hogs, and soulblight does not have battalions to load up on CPs. I would love such a list! But as of now I don't see it being viable (competitively or even just much fun).

I think you give too much credit to the designers =). I think they just wanted Egyptian-looking symbols, and omitted the Aton for space on a miniature. If I were to give the designers more credit than I think they are due, I would say because the Aton was a god and this character will be a servant of Nagash, who does not allow his servants to worship anyone else.... so take the aesthetic without all the meaning behind it. Basically, I think we know nothing at this point - but I could see a nod to Egypt as I think GW was surprised how much love the TKs are still receiving this long after being swatted.

The Rumor engine with the candles closely resembles the ATON from the AMARNA period in Egypt. During that short period, a pharaoh spurned all the old Egyptian gods and created his own monotheistic religion worshiping the sun as the god Aton. Depictions of the Aton were the sun with rays of light shining down on people (making crops grow, giving life, etc.) After his death this religion was quickly abandoned and the people returned to worshiping the old Egyptian gods. We have lots of examples from this period because the heretic pharaoh had an entire new capital city built that was abandoned to the desert after his death and so many artistic pieces were protected by the sand. Anyway, what I see is the Aton (itself not pictured) shining rays of light down on a pyramid with an entrance and 3 symbols. VERY Egyptian - though I doubt the designers were trying to match the Amarna period, just Egyptian symbols generally. I have never held out hope that the tomb kings were returning, but I could see some nods to Egypt to allow some plastic kit units to be used in this new IP army. Amarna period art:

Correct, I would drop a VLoZD for the 10 blood knights. If you send 3 big beasties up on the objectives with some chainrasps to help screen somewhat, that would draw the attention of the enemy who has to attack them. Once they are engaged, I would use a devastating second or third round charge with the Blood Knights for max damage. BKs are best on the charge by far. Also, keep in mind that the Court of Nuhlahmia is great for reducing drops. I usually pick whether or not I want to go first, and usually I do. I either get my heroes on the objectives first with screens, or I get an alphastrike charge. If the enemy plays way back I give them first turn and then set myself up for a shot at a double turn. A 4 drop army isn't perfect, but its better than most opponents I run into.

So the first thing you need to understand is where the strength of Legion of Blood lists comes from. 1) Stacking negative to hit modifiers; 2) Speed - particularly on heroes; 3) Tough units that don't degrade much on offence and take a long time to kill. So your objectives when list building need to be: 1) to get big, tough heroes on objectives before your opponent can get there; 2) maximize CPs to keep up at least -2 to hit from Neferata; 3) get bodies for objectives; 4) use the bonuses of LoB particularly Favored Retainers (Bloodknights, VLs and VLoZD). So to start, you need to build your list aiming for 1950 and a CP. None of your lists have a battalion, so you are already starting from a disadvantage. My list excels because all of Battle Round 1 and 2 (and maybe part of Battle Round 3) my opponents are -2 to hit or more, because I can use Neferata's command ability twice in each hero phase until I run low on CPs in Battle Round 3 and it drops to -1. I don't think the Coven Throne is a good model generally, so I'd lose it. The necromancer can't keep up in speed generally, so I'm not his fan either. Wolves are good (I ran them until the new GHB) but they aren't as many models for taking objectives. I love bloodknights and they get a big boost under LoB but they have 3 problems - they don't regenerate, they die fairly easy with their stupid shield mechanic, and you lose a lot of damage output as each knight dies. Compare them to a VLoZD that doesn't really lose substantial damage until several wound brackets in, and which you can heal up with chalice, transference, and killing models. Cogs is good but not great as you want the spell casts for other things and because generally you are already fast. Based on what I've said above, your first list looks the best except that I would switch chainrasps in for dogs where you can. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO USE THE BATTALION I would suggest the following for some real fun: Neferata VLOZD x 3 10 Chainrasps x3 Extra CP. Again, take advantage of your big, tough heroes by having 4. Make sure you buy the CP for extra negative to hit bonuses. Get units of 10 for bodies on objectives. Take advantage of Favored Retainers. This simple list does all of these things. I believe that the battalion however, is worth it for the extra artefact and CP, because the -2 to hit is so strong. It's worth downgrading a VLoZD to a Bloodseeker Palanquin in my opinion, and I do like the speed boost turn 1 to get my big guys EXACTLY where I want on the objectives, or to the side of the opponent formation to pin their units they string out.

They were going to be an objective grabber/camper in the backfield, but since we had Places of Arcane Power they were not involved in the battle at all. One of what I thought was a liche priest was definitely a Herald as I look back on this thread - his chariot and snake regeneration was impressive.

Just FYI, I played against a great TK list at the North America GT at the Warhammer Citadel (in Dallas) this past weekend. Player was 2-0 when he ran into me, I think he finished 3-2 and smoked several people. Was one of the better games I played and had he won a certain turn priority role when he retreated everything in order to get around my screens, he probably would have beat me. I know he ran: 2x 6 chariots 1x 3 chariots 6 Necropolis Knights Settra with artefact that lets him summon up to 2D6 wounds of summonable units (which he used for bladegheist revenants) Lich priest Herald 10 skeleton infantry

This is the list I used to win 2nd overall at the Games Workshop North America GT this past weekend: Legion of Blood Neferata (overwhelming dread, general) Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon (ethereal amulet, transference) Vampire lord on Zombie dragon (orb of enchantment, pinions) Bloodseeker palanquin (amethyst orb) Court of Nulahmia 10 Chainrasps 10 Chainrasps 10 Chainrasps 1CP. No need for the endless spells, you have strong spells at your disposal both from your book and warscrolls. Cast Dark Mist, Vile Transference, and Overwhelming Dread means only 2 spells rotate on a given turn, and Mystic Shield should be one on an ethereal dragon. So only 1 cast changes per turn - no need for the endless spells. Looking back I would drop pinions for Spirit Gale, as I never cast pinions after the first turn. We had realm spells so I would use those or try for the -1 to hit from Spirit Gale. Chainrasps at 5 up ignoring rend with deathless minions and Neferata backing them up with -2 to hit are really decent screens.

Happy to, just let me know. FYI, @ianob had it completely right on the artifacts above. Doppleganger Cloak and Miasmatic Blade mean that if you charge correctly most of your opponents attacks will have to be focused on a VLoZD and if you get good spell rolls that means the opponent is -2 or more to hit him (Miasmatic Blade, Neferata Aura, plus spells like Overwhelming Dread), you will have a 3 up save rerolling 1s, immune to rend (neferata's spell and mystic shield) and a 6+ save against all wounds (deathless minions). Your other dragon can just sit there with Doppleganger Cloak.

I would want my objective sitters to be a bit more substantial than 3x5 dogs and 9 spirit hosts. The hosts would not shift, but the dogs might in little units of 5. You would take 2 units of 10 direwolves, 1 unit of 5 direwolves, and 1 unit of 6 spirit hosts to land at exactly 2250 (5 drops). These would all be harder to shift if you have these models built/painted and few rasps. Otherwise, I think minimizing the drops and playing with 3 blobs of rasps works better.

Lean into this sentiment with Legion of Blood. Go very elite, with a few hard to shift objective sitters. Neferata VLoZD VLoZD Bloodseeker Palaquin Court of Nuhlahmia Battalion Chainrasp Horde x20 Chainrasp Horde x20 Chainrasp Horde x20 Command Point 2240 points total. 3 Command points to start, 4 drops, 2 artifacts. See the conversation ianob and I had 2-3 pages back. This list (with my tweaks or his) is very competitive at 2k points. I took my first loss in several months (I play on average once a week) this past weekend with this list, and it was only due to me forgetting a realm-specific garrison rule that let my opponent teleport to my home objective on round 1.

So, if you look back at page 2, I posted this same list with Direwolves instead of Chainrasps. I won local tournaments with this list before the new edition, and I think it has only become stronger with the new realm artifacts available. The mobility always seems to surprise people. I do prefer the dogs, 10/5/5 for 4 drops, because the dogs are used as a screen when you need one and they can keep up with the dragons. Chainrasps tend to get left in the dust unfortunately. Also, since you have the extra CP, bringing back the unit of 10 dogs is not a bad choice. I wouldn't waste that on 10 chainrasps. I think your spell choices are all correct except I would take Spirit Gale over Amethystine Pinions, you have enough movement as it is. Artifacts as well I think are great, though I like the Dimensional Blade that gives -3 rend and pairs well with the Miasmatic Blade myself.

Hi all, this model's wings seem to stick out an inordinate amount and it looks like it will make him a nightmare to transport. I know he is an ETB kit, but have any veteran hobbyists tried to slim him down and model the wings more up or down? Any other thoughts on how to make him transported easily? Would it make sense to convert a Dreadblade Harrow instead? I like to play games with my minis (often) and I'm very worried about him in my bag. Any ideas would be great, thanks!

Aristocracy of Blood on a VLoZD and cogs together makes your dragons have a reliable threat range of 25 inches. (14 movement, +2 for Cogs, 7 inch charge (58%, plus a reroll) and +2 for Cogs). You charge your general last so all the dragons (2 or 3) all have the re-roll on the charge. Since most armies start 24 inches apart, I find that opponents literally dread my army when it goes on the table. A good friend and solid competitive player said "playing this army makes my stomach churn." I took that as a compliment.

I won a local tourney with a 3 dragon list (one was Vhodrai). In a semi-competitive environment, it makes target priority hard for the enemy, and it is just so much damage coming in so fast. I'm seriously considering the 4 dragon list, painting being the major stop on it. VLoZD x4, wolves x3, Chronomatic Cogs. PS, being more serious, Nef, VLoZD x2, Vhodrai, wolves x3, Chronomatic Cogs looks good. PPS, VLoZD x2, Vhodrai, Reiknor, Cogs, 10 wolves x2, 20 Chainrasp Horde might be my new list. Every time someone says "you don't have enough bodies for objectives" I just think "I will kill the other guy's bodies so fast it won't matter."