Kroak and a bail wind vortex

[Percy Verance]

One of the lads I play regularly has just bought a vortex to use with his seraphon army making the already strong lord kroak even stronger (doubles spell range and he can't be charged while on top)

 

For those who haven't played against kroak before he doesn't have wounds as such, instead you need to do enough wounds to make him fail a battleshock. At bravery 10 that's not particularly easy for my khorne army. I can't chip away at him it's got to be done in 1 go.

 

I need ideas for for shitting I can add via the new "allies" section for list building. Im not 100% on the lure for these things but in told tzeentch won't be a khorne Allie.

 

Skaven artillery looks pretty good to me.

 

Looking for best use of these points and artillery/shooting to take him out. Or something I've missed in my army. I have the skull cannon but it's not reliable enough and seraphon have some brutal bonuses against me demons.

 

Any thoughts and help welcome.

 

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[przenicki1987]

U have khorne skullcanon what more u need d6 wounds 30 range if im correct

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[przenicki1987]

If its not enought skyfire from tz or this zap gun from skaven

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[Percy Verance]

U have khorne skullcanon what more u need [emoji4] d6 wounds 30 range if im correct

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Yeah it's possible to get the job done with the skull cannon but only if you manage to roll a 5 or 6 damage. He can't fail on anything else and even then the odds are against me. Then the whole thing resets after his battleshock and you have to start from scratch

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[Well of Eternity]

Hellcannon? Nice 2D6 Mortal Wound without LOS and good range. Nice combo with chaos sorcerer for re-rolls (to-hit)

[Arkiham]

Wait till ghb17

 

See what changes 

[Sadysaneto]

focus on objectives and dont try to kill him.  he just blew 640 points.

[Percy Verance]

focus on objectives and dont try to kill him.  he just blew 640 points.

Ha if only it were that simple, last time we played he had over a 35 inch range and was doing d6 damage on everything inside that bubble. He can do that 3 times a turn with some half decent rolling( he was +2 to cast and had 2 re-rolls).

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[Sadysaneto]

5 minutes ago, Percy Verance said:

Ha if only it were that simple, last time we played he had over a 35 inch range and was doing d6 damage on everything inside that bubble. He can do that 3 times a turn with some half decent rolling( he was +2 to cast and had 2 re-rolls).

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he only can in open games. In matched games he can only cast each spell once per turn.

hes pretty strong, but in matched play he loses a lot of steam. 

[Screwface]

3 hours ago, Percy Verance said:

I need ideas for for shitting...

 

 

 

Bran Flakes.

[tolstedt]

Chaos is a bad matchup against Kroak's two spells.  I have this army and use an astrolith banner which means that celestial deliverance hits the entire table.  

You have to try to take him off on the first turn.  I place an eternity warden who absorbs wounds off of Kroak which means you need to do about 13 wounds to kroak to have a chance of killing him.  It's a strong combo and placed well at a recent tournament in the UK.

[Aginor]

As others have said: in matched play he can only cast Celestial Deliverance once per round.

Also since you mentioned rerolls: you can only reroll a dice once.

Kroak is pretty weak for his point cost IMO. The combo with Balewind Vortex and an Astrolith Bearer makes him viable, but then that combo is 800 points.

EDIT: also I wouldn't play that in a friendly game. IMO that is a pure cheese tactic akin to Skyfire spam, Kurnoth spam, or Kunnin Rukk.

[Percy Verance]

It was an open game. We played 3 players 4500 points each over 2 days. He doesn't use kroak too often because of the points cost thankfully. I'd agreed not to use BoK book as he doesn't have an equivalent yet. Wish I had now although in not sure what I could have done with the list I used tbh.

Talking to him today I don't think he was too keen on how cheesy it was so I might not have to deal with it again



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[tolstedt]

I agree that this combo is certainly not going to provide a very tactical or strategic game. 

[chord]

4 hours ago, Percy Verance said:

It was an open game. We played 3 players 4500 points each over 2 days. He doesn't use kroak too often because of the points cost thankfully. I'd agreed not to use BoK book as he doesn't have an equivalent yet. Wish I had now although in not sure what I could have done with the list I used tbh.

Talking to him today I don't think he was too keen on how cheesy it was so I might not have to deal with it again



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In open play you used points to balance it, yet got hand tied because he didn't have a battletome.  That combo is so powerful you should have gotten an additional 1K points or, he reduce his point value.   Points are never a true balance

 

[Aginor]

If you play against the same opponent often then balancing can be done by just tracking who lost the last games. Each lost game gives you ten percent bonus points.

My friend and I do that and it works great. If I lost a 2000pt game next time I bring 2200pt while he stays at 2000. If I lose again it is 2400 next time. When I win I lose the bonus again.

That way even very weak armies can win against very strong ones. Pure Deathrattle against Kunnin Rukk? Probably balanced at 20% or 30% bonus. If not bring more. Epic games.

[themortalgod]

One option is to stop the vortex to begin with. I can't remember what the item is called but Khorne has an item that gives you a single automatic dispel. That will stop the first vortex attempt which gives you a chance to get some blood tithe. Then from there on out so long as you can get 2 blood tithe per turn his only chance at casting the vortex is with a double turn. (which you can lower the odds of by making a 1 drop army, forcing him to go first, then not taking double turn if you win the roll off) Without the Vortex, Kroak is both vulnerable and massively less threatening. 

Another option that can help is that bloodsecrator and slaughterpriests battalion that gets you up to like a 36" re-roll successful casting attempts aura. Really puts a wrench in caster heavy armies. (and the 36" immune to battleshock is also pretty narly)

[Kramer]

23 hours ago, Aginor said:

If you play against the same opponent often then balancing can be done by just tracking who lost the last games. Each lost game gives you ten percent bonus points.

My friend and I do that and it works great. If I lost a 2000pt game next time I bring 2200pt while he stays at 2000. If I lose again it is 2400 next time. When I win I lose the bonus again.

That way even very weak armies can win against very strong ones. Pure Deathrattle against Kunnin Rukk? Probably balanced at 20% or 30% bonus. If not bring more. Epic games.

That's an amazing solution for introducing new players! I found I'm kinda losing interest playing against certain friends because of the lack of challenge. This is a brilliant way to quantify experience vs lack of experience. 

[Percy Verance]

One option is to stop the vortex to begin with. I can't remember what the item is called but Khorne has an item that gives you a single automatic dispel. That will stop the first vortex attempt which gives you a chance to get some blood tithe. Then from there on out so long as you can get 2 blood tithe per turn his only chance at casting the vortex is with a double turn. (which you can lower the odds of by making a 1 drop army, forcing him to go first, then not taking double turn if you win the roll off) Without the Vortex, Kroak is both vulnerable and massively less threatening. 
Another option that can help is that bloodsecrator and slaughterpriests battalion that gets you up to like a 36" re-roll successful casting attempts aura. Really puts a wrench in caster heavy armies. (and the 36" immune to battleshock is also pretty narly)

This is a very good shout for future games. I wasn't using blood tithe or BoK artifacts this time as that game was a bit of a goodbye to the old GH before the new one arrives which has a big section for seraphon to get up to date.

I know which artifact you mean tho. 2+ ward save against magic that can be burned up for an anywhere on the board auto dispell. If the vortex and kroak come out to play again I think I have a few good options for dealing with it now.

THANKS ALL

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[Percy Verance]

Bran Flakes.

I have absolutely no idea where my last post came from. Decent reply tho

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[Nico]

Brazen Rune.

Changeling sitting 9" away from him and slamming his entire army with the aoe spell (Skinks Priests and Temple Guard love mortal wounds).

[Bethorina]

On 8/9/2017 at 10:15 AM, Percy Verance said:

 

well while maintaining knorne ways and not invoking the help of tzeentch or skave and their machina could go for skull cannons or even 2-3 bloodthirsters of unfettered fury cause the whip can hit kroak as it is a missle attack and he is pretty nippy in combat too

 

 

[fued]

just remember its multiple range first then addition now. so only 38 on avg with 2 bearers lol

[ledha]

On 09/08/2017 at 1:48 PM, Sadysaneto said:

he only can in open games. In matched games he can only cast each spell once per turn.

hes pretty strong, but in matched play he loses a lot of steam. 

each spell is enough for kroak to grind ALONE a whole army in 4 turn

[Xanax Lot]

On 8/9/2017 at 4:15 AM, Percy Verance said:

 

One of the lads I play regularly has just bought a vortex to use with his seraphon army making the already strong lord kroak even stronger (doubles spell range and he can't be charged while on top)

 

For those who haven't played against kroak before he doesn't have wounds as such, instead you need to do enough wounds to make him fail a battleshock. At bravery 10 that's not particularly easy for my khorne army. I can't chip away at him it's got to be done in 1 go.

 

I need ideas for for shitting I can add via the new "allies" section for list building. Im not 100% on the lure for these things but in told tzeentch won't be a khorne Allie.

 

Skaven artillery looks pretty good to me.

 

Looking for best use of these points and artillery/shooting to take him out. Or something I've missed in my army. I have the skull cannon but it's not reliable enough and seraphon have some brutal bonuses against me demons.

 

Any thoughts and help welcome.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Djyre is your solution, rattling guns warplightning cannon, jezzails or stormfiends  sjould do the trick the only problem is that most of those units are essy to kill so s couple of spells snd the most critical will be dead