Gwendar

That's the idea, definitely not expecting to win games but I'm a huge fan of volley firing artillery\tanks so...It had to be done and ballistas are much more efficient for their points than rocket batteries would be, at least on paper. All the strength is in the War Machines, Luminark and Hurricanum, which can hopefully whittle everything down in time. I was stuck on using kitbashed Freeguild Guard for the longest time until I really looked into the Longbeards. Plus they're Dwarfs, so.

I think I've finally decided on a list. Definitely going with Longbeards, as I think in minimum units they're just as good\better than 10-20 Guard when you take the shield wall into account. Excited to get to get started with it to see how it performs. Allegiance: Greywater FastnessCelestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)- GeneralLuminark Of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)Lord-Ordinator (140) 10 x Longbeards (100)- Great Axes & Shields10 x Longbeards (100)- Great Axes & Shields10 x Longbeards (100)- Great Axes & Shields Steam Tank (260)Steam Tank (260) Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100) Soulsnare Shackles (20)Total: 2000 / 2000

@Riff_Raff_Rascal I haven't tried skitterleaping it as I have never tried running a deceiver in a Skryre army as I never really found it useful. I guess that does help to re-position throughout the game though, I just never found that to be worth the 300 points of allies when I could bring 400 points of bodies instead. Of course, that's just me talking from a pure Skryre perspective (I almost always run 3x3 Stormfiends and 2 Cannons nowadays so I need the bodies) and I'm sure it's easier to consider in a mixed army. I will agree on the subject of endless spells. I've mostly hated them aside from balewind, palisade, cogs and shackles and even those are rarely included anymore. There's a couple of Tzeentch players around here that love to unbind so I rarely get anything off, and even if I do, their Curselings tend to fire it right back.

Yep, I did this recently against DoK in my last batrep and it was arcane terrain on top of that. It was nice seeing Morathi have such a hard time getting to and attempting to wound him. People tend to glance over just how good the Arch-Warlock is I've noticed, especially when you set him up properly as described.

Honk's right, I think they still have a great place and that's just looking at them on paper and I've decided to just go with 1x9 to accompany things in a more standardized list. They still average out decent MW from rolling 6's to hit (especially attacking twice w/ Deadwatch), so I don't think I would drop them just from the shooting attack disappointment.

No, you're misunderstanding it. You roll 1 dice for each Flayer and add +1 to each, meaning the highest total you can achieve is 7, which against a Bravery of 6 would Inflict 1 MW. If all 6 Flayers rolled a 6 (7 with the +1) against a Bravery 6 target, they would in total inflict 6 MW's. What you're doing is adding all of those rolls together and thinking the total number is what you subtract the bravery from and that is incorrect. It would be far deadlier if it worked like that, as you pointed out.

I acknowledge that, I tend to just come on these threads and spew out ideas and hope others can wrangle with them for how things play. Will probably just start with a SC box, flayers and ghouls and see how it plays out. 60 Ghouls and 9 Flayers seems best when you consider the possible limitations pure 3x6 deadwatch has. Appreciate the help!

Would maybe a more Horror focused list like Abattoir would prove better on average than mass Flayers in a Deadwatch? At least you get some MW output from the Battalion, no? Seems a bit more balanced (probably RL cheaper too) than pure Flayers in a 3x6. But again, I'm here to learn, so may be way off the mark with that assumption. Then again, I think I'm becoming more convinced Ghoul Patrol is the about the only way to go regardless for competitive play. Maybe 3x20 ghouls, 1x9 flayers to get the best of both worlds. Take the CT to summon in a second ghast courtier and an infernal to run with the flayers?

@HonkTrue, I suppose I hadn't though of the fact it doesn't really allow any first turn shenanigans. I already knew I wouldn't be getting anything done for the objective game, this was more for casual\semi-competitive play and I love the regeneration aspect of it. May buy some extra ghouls regardless and see how I like them over purely flayers. What the general consensus on trying to fit in a GKoTG and GKoZD in the same deadwatch list? Better to just have 1 GKoZD + More courtiers for the regeneration?

I do play Nighthaunt as well, but was looking for something a little different than the campy/defensive nature of how I play them and fast, regenerating units that put out MW's seem fun. Maybe I'm just underestimating all of the synergies to Ghouls and I didn't want another "horde" army, although ~40-60 models total for battleline isn't terrible, better than moving around 120 Eshin models. I like to only buy the models I need\plan to use and usually the SC boxes comes with extra, but buying 2 may be the best bet? I wouldn't see the value in it though unless I planned to use a TG and ZD together in lists, which is why mine had both. Your list idea has really intrigued me though. Do Deadwatch lists tend to do decently in a more competitive environment or does the amount of bodies tend to prove detrimental in most cases? Assuming of course you don't table your opponent with all of the extra attacks before they get too many objective points.

Been looking at this army for awhile and reading through it seems most go for Crypt Ghoul units of 10-20 for Battleline. Is it at all viable to go purely Flayer or Horror with their respective battalions + a GKoTG & GKoZD? Was thinking something along the lines of this: Allegiance: Flesh Eater CourtsCrypt Infernal Courtier (140)- GeneralAbhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)6 x Crypt Flayers (320)6 x Crypt Flayers (320)3 x Crypt Flayers (160)Deadwatch (170)Total: 1950 / 2000 Maybe drop a King in order to bring more Flayers and another Courtier or something? The SC boxes would give me Ghouls to summon in as well if I had a regular GK or two...could be good for objective camping? I expected this to be another type of Horde army but most of the lists I'm seeing do not go above 30-40 Crypt Ghouls total, I just really enjoy more MSU's of elite troops for armies.

Thanks! I put a lot of work into them, unfortunately I don't particularly have the time to paint or play with them (the most models I go for in an army is ~60-80 now). I'll PM you about selling as I don't want to tie up forum posts about it.

@brimmstorm They're primed but not painted, but yeah I can pull a few out and post them up when I get home. Edit: almost forgot, here we go. Bad pics are bad, but you get the idea. I forgot I painted a few as testers.

At least one of those poses is extremely Eshin like, and they've been specifically mentioned pretty heavily in the latest stories which leads to many people believing they'll at least get a DoK treatment and be expanded upon. Currently I'm looking to sell 80 Nightrunners/Gutter Runners that I've kit bashed from the slave/unarmored clanrats and have used witch aelf hands to make them all dual wielding. I'll buy actual ones if they re-release them, but that will depend on whether they intend to go more horde oriented with it or more elite, again like DoK having the choice between witch aelf battleline and melusai for a more elite low model count army.

I would consider that as well. Honestly it may just be of better use to have the pendant with the SH's in order to get them into anvil position easier for the Revenants to swoop in later in the turn.

Oh, I hadn't even considered the other GoS. Though, I really do like mine coming with Spectral Lure + Beacon, especially with not having Olynder around. But maybe it's overrated. I had considered Pendant with the KoSos, but still up the air about it. I suppose it would be nice to have to get to the next fight after the first turn charges from reserves.

True, but even with Nagash the spellportal is nothing compared to what it used to be since it only allows 1 spell to be cast through it per turn. Then again, there are no Nagash players in my area so I cannot really testify to how useful that auto-unbind is outside of just looking at it on paper, even taking Hand of Dust into account I wouldn't care for it...Then again I just really dislike Stormcast. (I'm just dressing up my Ordinator and replacing the crew of the Ballistas with kitbashed models). The damage potential may be situational, sure, but personally I would rather have a bit more damage potential, a 6+ aura save and +1 to unbinds on top of the beam. The spell is just insurance against someone potentially bringing that blob which is still pretty likely to happen in this meta, especially locally where I have Fyreslayers bringing blobs of 30, 20+ units of Witch Aelves, Seraphon Skinks\Undead\etc...Bottom line is tons of things have these Save ++'s now that your ballistas would need to get through regardless. I would rather have even a small answer to a Horde situation than nothing. I guess looking back, I'm more in favor of the Luminark for what it could do in my area, rather than at some big tournament which I would never bring a list like this to anyway unless I just wanted to mess around. For 140 points more, I would rather max out on the "go big or go home" war-machine\magic-machine aspect than having another standard wizard. No matter what I plan to have 4 Ballistas and 2 Tanks for my list, so I would never consider dropping any of that for a Luminark, I just sacrificed some of my Guard in order to make it work. Also, the Hurricanum and Luminark have wonderful potential to be kitbashed. I've played against Tom Lyons Luminark before which is essentially a Dwarven Deathstar shown near the end here:

@Tropical Ghost General That would be great, or at least allow him to be healed by giving it the Summonable keyword. At least he looks nice...and I still plan to use it extensively in my above list, but for competitive play I will leave him out. After doing some mathhammer on buffed vs unbuffed Revenants, I can't not take them at this point, at least competitively. Especially combined with coming in as reserves and cogs allowing for 7+ charges w/ a CP re-roll from the KoSos coming along with them. @Nevar Yeah, it's broken again. But if you add the units under the "Other" section and they are battleline, it will add them to the battleline section.

@Tropical Ghost General I just wrote up my own list to try out that's pretty similar. However, I only had 2x10 Revenants in place of having a Mourngul or Lady Olynder, which either way is a huge damage loss in comparison I am starting to realize. Looking at your artifact choices instead, I had the Executioner use the Tome in order to cast Reaping Scythe on himself. It worked decently last game to ensure I killed off that Kairos, but I can see Slitter being infinitely more useful, especially against players who string out their models. I had my KoSos using ruler of the spirit hosts to have available for Revenants, but he has the movement speed to get elsewhere if needed (although that would leave the Revenants vulnerable). I think this list is far more aggressive than the one I used during my report, which was mostly just hyper-defensive\model return, and I really like the idea of it. I just hate that my Mourngul is sort of looking more and more like a 300pt paper-weight when I can just take 20 Revenants and do 80 attacks with the KoSos.

@Frowny Exactly, and it essentially does what the archmage already does without a spellcast, granted at a lower range. I hadn't even thought about the Hurricanums +1 to hit aura for the beam; even better as it can allow you to delete the average hero character since it will be hitting on 3's with Look out, Sir in mind. I wouldn't call it an exaggeration all that much. Best case scenario in mind, it will do 3 MW's to a unit of 20, 1 wound each models which then gets tripled to 9. Hit with the 6 damage shot to bring the total up to 15. Assuming they do not have a CP available to use for IP or some other battleshock ability, then battleshock will most likely take care of the rest. Even if not, you took that unit of 20 down to 5, allowing for something else to do some easy cleanup. Is it a stretch? Maybe, but even on average it still does decently against the right target in my book. And I can't argue with it's aesthetic obviously making it seem better than it may or may not be.

@Nevar Yeah, thought it was a little odd in you saying you didn't want to use the spell so I assumed you misread it. And while I see your points with the Luminark, I just appreciate it aesthetically. It would probably be better to leave it out in favor of more bodies, and while it isn't an artillery piece, it almost acts like one regardless of it gets buffed or not. Especially if you take its spell into account as well and not just the beam. A 3+ (or 4+ with Look out, sir if you target a Hero) is still pretty good. You already have disparate ranges with the tanks, handgunners and the ballistas 2 different profiles, so adding a Luminarks 30" shot range doesn't change this. Your ideal range is 16" as you have said, which lets you have everything in range. So really, you're just adding another Steam Tank in with the Luminark, except it gets a nice anti-horde spell, since it has the potential to do 12 MW's against a unit of 20+. Add in the -2 rend Luminark shot and you have a good chance to delete a 10-20 man unit in 1 phase from 1 unit alone. To me, Burning Gaze reads that you double or triple the wounds it inflicts, so it isn't actually 2d3 or 3d3, you roll 1d3, and then double or triple the result. At least, that's how I read it unless there is an faq stating otherwise, which I have yet to find. This seems to be the way everyone uses it. I'm not making a case to use the Luminark over the Hurricanum for an artillery-based army; It's a no-brainer that the Hurricanum is best for that. I was only making a case that as an inclusion to work alongside the Hurricanum in such an army, it can be pretty great and can potentially help keep your weak frontline around a little longer with its aura. Also, you get another unbind which is great in todays meta, not to mention the Hurricanum's +1 to casting and the Luminarks +1 to unbinding work with each other (and themselves since they're auras).

I like the list, largely what I have decided on but I'm doing Guard over Handgunners and throwing in a Luminark. That Luminark shot can be nasty, and it's spell is great vs. hordes. Anyway, I don't think the Comet really has that much capability to "backfire" since your opponent has to select one of their own units, so either way you will be doing d6 MW's to something of your opponents.

Right, that was more of a redundant question than an actual one, that's why I followed it up with a "definitely". I may try bringing a proxy group of 20 next time for my 2k list by dropping a chainghast and spirit host unit, I really think that would solve my 'no-hammer-for-the-anvil' situation. But thanks! I typically do photos, I just completely forgot to bring my work phone that I take pictures with. I wouldn't mind reading up your old report though, I tend to ramble with my reports so I'm trying to clean them up with each new one that I do. Some of my Skaven ones are just ridiculous. I play another guy that uses Tzeentch pretty often, although I typically use my Skryre army in doing so. But he has a solid grip on his rules, so that's why I knew this guy was doing things very, very wrong. I feel the same about not wanting to be 'that guy' especially when we were having a good time regardless. The local AoS scene is nowhere near the 40k scene (as usual) so I take whatever games/players I can get and try not to scare any off, which unfortunately has also caused me to hold back in my competitiveness which is not good preparation for tournaments that I plan to attend in the future. There is a FLGS tournament at the end of every month, so I will possibly be bringing them to the one in October or November, and we have a DoK player so that will be an interesting matchup. Thanks for the help!

Report from todays 1500pt game against Tzeentch (no pictures unfortunately). No objectives as he was learning his army a bit (as was I) and just wanted to slug it out. Let me know how I can improve on typing up these reports as I feel like I could shorten them to make them more enjoyable to read: My list Allegiance: NighthauntLady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)- General- Lore of the Underworlds: LifestealerGuardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of NagashizzarLord Executioner (80)- Artefact: Midnight Tome 6 x Spirit Hosts (240)6 x Spirit Hosts (240)3 x Spirit Hosts (120)Mourngul (300)Execution Horde (100) His list Allegiance: TzeentchKairos Fateweaver (380)- GeneralHerald Of Tzeentch On Disc (140)- Staff of ChangeDaemon Prince Of Tzeentch (160) Unamed Wizard (He may have gone over 1500?)10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)Chronomantic Cogs (60)Balewind Vortex (40) 1st BR He goes first, proceeds to do typical Tzeentch thing and cast a bunch of spells without targeting to generate fate points and then move everything up and that was about it. My turn, I mystic shield 6 Spirit Hosts in front of Olynder and GoS, Executioner casts Reaping Scythe which was a mistake since he wouldn't be getting into combat that turn anyway, so I gave him a free fate point. I bring out my Mourngul in his backline and then proceeded to get 2 10+ charges with the Mourngul into a unit of Pinks and the other 6 Spirit Hosts on the left into another unit of Pinks+His herald (where they would be the entire game due to only ever killing all but 1 horror every combat phase). Mourngul killed all but 2-3 Pinks in charge phase combat, no damage was taken thanks to that wonderful -1 to hit from the Mourngul and the fact Pinks hit like wet noodles anyway. He uses destiny dice to auto-pass battleshock on both Pink units and bring more back. 2nd BR He wins priority, only gets ~3-4 spells off that I failed to unbind and fails the rest. He retreats his Herald back to where the unnamed wizard is behind a unit of 10 pinks, and then summons 10 Blue in front of my 6 Hosts in middle. Blues + Pinks shoot and kill 1 host in middle unit, all of his other shooting was directed at the Mourngul/Left side Host unit who took no damage. Charges his Daemon Prince into those 5 Hosts w/ Olynder & GoS behind them and decides to charge Kairos and another Pink unit into the Mourngul. Daemon Prince actually does decently and kill off 1 another host and puts a wound on another. I decide to swing back with the Mourngul into Kairos and take him down to 8 wounds and hits back to bring my Mourngul down to 6 wounds. His Pinks do a whole bunch of nothing while my 4 Hosts unit brings the Daemon prince down to ~4 wounds left. More fate dice shenanigans to replenish Pinks. My turn, I lift the veil on his Daemon Prince and finish it off with 5 MW's. Shield + Reaping Scythe are re-cast and I spend 2 CP to bring back both dead Spirit Hosts to the middle unit and heal the other with GoS. I move everything into charge range and bring my unit of 3 Hosts in the back to charge the unnamed wizard + herald on disc, which they do with another 11 and put a couple of wounds on the Herald and Mystery wizard. Executioner charges into Pinks and piles in to be in range of Kairos. For combat, Mourngul swings at Kairos again doing no MW's and bringing him down to 3, Kairos swings back while being at -2 to hit thanks to Executioner debuff + Mourngul and takes the Mourngul down to 3 since I began to only roll 3's to save for the rest of the game. Lord Executioner finishes off Kairos and the 3 Hosts unit finishes off the Mystery Wizard + Herald on disc, leaving him with no Heros left to summon...speaking of... 3rd BR I win the roll off, but I notice that he rolled another 9 destiny dice, which I called him out for but he said Tzeentch re-rolls a fresh set of 9 dice every turn which I knew was not the case. I knew he had already lost at this point so I went with it, but I definitely should've pressed the issue further so it doesn't happen to anyone in the future. He was also under the impression cogs gave +1 spell cast to EVERY wizard, rather than just the one that manipulates the cogs, but luckily he didn't do this the entire game anyway. Anyway, he tried to summon in more, which I told him only hero's could do as he was under the impression that any Wizard (thusly, the Pinks) could summon. Once he checked his GHB to see that only Heros could summon, he knew he had lost but decided to finish up this round. The rest is pretty self-explanatory as the Hosts and Mourngul finish off the Pinks and Blues and he calls it at the end of my turn. End thoughts Overall, it was a fun game despite no objectives. I printed off a few color coded cheat sheets to use to remember all of the auras, allegiance abilities etc, but found that I still forgot to look at them from time to time and forgot some rules, like the Host unit in the middle getting the +1 to wound from the GoS. My opponent is a great dude and really look forward to playing him again, but he may want to read up a bit more on all the rules beforehand for Tzeentch. He's mainly an IJ player, so all of the stuff going on with Tzeentch was a little overwhelming I think and some rules were unintentionally misread, especially when he hasn't played much AoS lately, especially 2nd edition so I knew he wasn't attempting to cheat or anything. I enjoy this playstyle of Nighthaunt, but I think I will need a few more games to see how they perform against other lists, and my 2k list has a bit more healing in it as well. The Mourngul did his job exceptionally well as a distraction and managed to almost kill his most expensive model, so that was worth it to me, but I really think people underestimate the Hosts. Would units of 20-30 Reaper blenders be killier? Definitely, but I enjoy the endless healing aspect, assuming I can keep my Heros alive. Had he actually been able to get some spells off, things could have went a little differently for him.

@Skreech Verminking I'm about 90% on board with a combined tome. Some people raise an important note with that though; If we get a combined tome, it would be likely we get the BoC treatment in the sense were we won't really get new models, and as many have pointed out, we really need some new models. Especially Eshin and Moulder. That other 10% of me not being on board with the BoC style tome is just that; I really would love if something like Eshin got the DoK treatment and was expanded upon to be more their own thing or get new models at the very least. I don't think it's likely we would get a separate tome for each however. And I do agree that base Grey Seer power level seems odd, he should definitely get at least 2 spells.