Beer & Pretzels Gamer

As the son of an English teacher, the husband of an English major, and friend of a librarian @AlexScipio I feel for you. Unfortunately, the English language is a beautifully imprecise one and GW seems to lean into that imprecision. Above I have clipped the key sentence and the key word to me regarding the ambiguity, as the word “and” can and frequently is used to state simultaneous actions. When people sing and dance, they are doing both at the same time. If my driving instructor paraphrases Jim Morrison and tells me to keep my eyes on the road and my hands upon the wheel, they are expecting me to do both at the same time. There is a simple substitute in the English language when referencing actions to clearly imply order. It is “then.” If GW clearly wanted the counting as slain to come AFTER the removed from play, they should’ve used then. No need for a FAQ in that case. But by using “and,” GW has made it easy for players, in complete good faith, to interpret those two actions as occurring simultaneously. Again, this is a very common (arguably with actions the more common) interpretation of the word “and” given the simple substitute of “then” when an order of operation needs to be stated.

Agree there should be a FAQ but honestly having played systems where units who fail a morale test (or fall below a certain wounds threshold in some systems) break and start retreating towards the nearest board edge, only being lost when they leave the field of battle with opportunities until that point to rally them... well the whole AoS Battleshock system has always felt like a hand wave/box check to me. As far as Daemons went I guess I’ve never seen failed Battleshock as per se representing fleeing but from the fluff has always come across more as their losing their grip on the material world and fading back into the Realm of Chaos from whence they came. From that perspective I can see it either way as the Pink, in failing the Battleshock, loses the struggle to “hold itself together” and splits or that in failing Battleshock it just gets sucked wholly back into the warp. That said I guess I am confused about what negatives Tzeentch players are being accused of ignoring in taking only the “good side” of this? (Maybe it is referencing something outside of Battleshock?). When I play Khorne whether the unit is destroyed by wounds inflicted or Battleshock I still get to claim the blood tithe. When I play against Warclans if they take the battalion whether the Ardboyz died on the field or fled from it they get a chance to bring them back. Same for Gitz and the Loonshrine. (thank you WD for finally extending that to the Trogs!) Somebody already mentioned it for Death. Pretty sure it counts the same for auxiliary objectives (cant think of an exception but haven’t played them much so maybe). I’ve had players hoping to fail Battleshock in order to be able to bring back and reposition. Again, Battleshock feels like it was tacked on to the rest of the rules compared to the other systems I’m familiar with but I’m struggling to see many cases where factions who have the option don’t follow the advise of Monty Python and always look on the bright side of death (by Battleshock)... why would Tzeentch be any different?

Troggoth Hag has gone “out of stock” which hasn’t been a good thing lately for AoS FW models. Will have to wait until GH21 to see if they get squatted/sent to Legends but given how many at risk models already have had been reluctant even before that to invest in Hag. Know the preference here is pure Hag lists but with a Troggboss, regular Dankhold and now 12x Rockgut trying to figure out viability of a path to 2K sans Hag? Points wise doesn’t make up much ground but already have Fungoid to add in some spell casting. Or are these bad boys destined to be just allies or Automata?

Having faced it multiple times in Zoom League I’m with you there. Proof that a limited number of different units doesn’t mean a limited play style nonetheless a weak one. Happy to hear about another fun & friendly local gaming group too!

To be clear I think we’re actually on the same page here. By your meta I simply mean what factions are you playing regularly? I love these threads but so many devolve into abstract discussions of “the meta” which, as far as I can tell, is at best only experienced by the top tournament players. For the rest of us... like @Sleboda is saying there is just the armies we see on the tables. I’m trying to see how many players out there really are getting burnt to the ground by Changehost or shot off the tables by Sentinals in their regularly game play? Or are most of us having a pretty good time in our regulars and just worried about what we might face at the occasional tournament or that someone in our group might chase the new hotness?

NO!!!!! Those hordes of hundreds of clan rats must rise from the depths. Those Doomwheels must roll! Before Clans Pestilens got one over which factions were facing your overwhelming vermintide?

Think @Landohammer hits on a key point that there is a very fat middle for AoS and if you’re primarily playing games within that fat middle (as I am fortunate to be) things are probably pretty okay. But there is a growing list of factions, or at least specific sub-factions within certain factions, that simply “do not play nicely” with any of those fat middle factions. For that matter I’m not terribly sure how well they play against each other. My personal philosophy for battletomes is that they should be built so that the average player can construct a list more than capable of going 3-2 but which a skilled player, willing to dedicate the time and energy to really learn the army and how it interacts with the rest of the game (e.g. other factions and the battleplans) can pilot to 5-0 on top tables. Having now read over half the tomes though I think it is fair to say while certain writers are consistent with this approach (personally I’d highlight both Mawtribes and Warclans as recent examples) I think as 2.0 has matured there has been a tendency for certain writers to reach for the “novel”. Sometimes this doesn’t amount to much from a competitive perspective for good or bad (boy oh boy was Sons a missed opportunity in this regard...) but other times this “novelty” leads to lists that push the average player up to 5-0 base case scenario with losses either coming from their playing either a player with a similar tier list, user error, or a truly skilled player on the other side of the table. I’m certain there are those who like tomes coming with a clear cut 5-0 contender. To each their own. But I think all too often when the writers create one it catalyze a lot of claims of negative player experience.

There have been a lot of threads lately debating issues of balance, negative player experience, “broken” shooting or magic. These discussions often see tournament data used on both sides. As @Neil Arthur Hotep frequently acknowledges tournament data isn’t ideal but often is what we have to use since casual games aren’t clearly and cleanly recorded anywhere. But it did make me very curious to see if we could get a little more info on what casual metas actually look like. So... what does your personal gaming meta look like? What factions are you playing and what factions are most frequently across the table? And how do you feel about your own personal meta? Currently in Zoom League we are playing a lot of Mawtribes (both BCR and Gutbusters), Warclans (all three options have shown up)and FEC (Blisterskin primarily but some Gristelgore too). Fyreslayers have entered the fray. Nurgle (mortals & daemons) is about to make a return. Khorne (daemons) got a recent look in. Beasts of Chaos have made appearances. Even Tzeentch (mortals) & Stormcast Eternals showed up for a tournament. Troggoths are debuting as an automata component but may see some play in future. The Sons of Behemat are expected to arrive in Zoom League this Summer. Prior to COVID but since retired we had Legion of Azgorh, Sylvaneth and the Moonclan/Spiderfang Gloomspite Gitz. When in person games start back up I would expect my meta to expand to include a few games a year against IDK, Seraphon and Cities and I’d expect to finally put my Tzeentch daemons on the table. Overall my meta has proven very enjoyable. There are factions that struggle a little more for wins than others but nothing has proven futile. Similarly some factions have done better than average but nothing dominates for too long.

Right. Always focus on the bolded sub-faction and just so used to Archie as General. Have a narrative tournament in Zoom League that I’ve already submitted a non-FEC list to but will have to go back and try that,

Wanted to share this fun kitbash I did to better distinguish between the two Savage Big Bosses being run in Zoom League at moment. His Boss Chompa made from 10 Ardboyz weapons. In narrative they are the weapons of Ardboyz in a Big Waaagh!!! that the Savage Big Boss did not feel were charging with sufficient zeal. When they tried to argue with him he started hacking them down until they were “properly motivated”. The Megaboss saw this and wanted to reward such “managerial dedication” so had the slain Ardboyz weapons reforged into a suitable weapon. He’s now running a much feared Teef Rukk.

I have always wanted to run Feast Day but have been out off by only having Crypt Ghouls as battle line. I’ve had luck using one big blob plus Chalice but worry three units if Crypt Ghouls too restrictive for the lists I typically favor.

Sorry for delay but happy to discuss this fun army. Looking back through my lists I actually played two variations on a Blisterskin plus Deadwatch battalion. One was double Archregent and one was Archregent plus on foot Abhorrant Ghoul King (in both cases trying to leverage the free summons from Charnel Throne to preserve CP for extra pile-in). The commonality to both lists is a Deadwatch Battalion of 6x/6x/3x Crypt Flayers and Crypt Infernal Courtier and an Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist. The AGKonRT in these lists honestly was performing mainly as a Distraction Carnifex. Typically it would draw out my opponent’s best units in an attempt to one shot it, positioning me to get a full unit of Crypt Flayers into them. When my opponent didn’t take the bait great, got to go fishing for 6s and those big mouth MWs. The real key though was making sure I could get all 6 of my Crypt Flayers into Combat when they did attack and the maximizing the Muster abilities of the Crypt Infernal Courtier and Varghulf(s) I would summon to keep them in combat. Finally using the movement (including using the Blisterskin CA and/or the AGKonRT summons to steal an objective with a 3x unit) in the list to outmaneuver an opponent in late rounds usually proved key. In the double Archie list that pretty much uses up the points. Either summon two Varghulfs to make sure I’m rolling maximum dice (and occasionally killing a 5W Hero at a key moment) when I Muster or occasionally drop a big block of Ghouls on an objective. This list did sometimes struggle for CP so tried the option where I swapped out one Archie for a basic Abhorrant with the Balewind Vortex and an extra CP. Still a free summons with Charnel Throne, albeit limited to 10x Ghouls but again, can be useful on an objective (and benefit from some of the Muster dice I can’t use on Flayers) but the extra CP could be huge and the Balewind’s extended range increased probability of my getting the Archregent’s spell on who I wanted even if I now only had a single caster. Fully acknowledge wasn’t playing top tier tournament lists but gave me some tools against lists with multiple Frostlords on Stonehorn or double Mawcrusha Ironjawz lists.

This is why, when running a very similar Blisterskin list recently I dropped the 2nd AGKonRT for a 2nd Archregent and some extras, the free summons with the Charnel Throne was worthwhile in freeing up an extra Feeding Frenzy, gave even more flexibility as to what I summoned, and better chance of having a key unit i; range for Archie’s spell. That said I appreciate the desire for the full flap flap list...

Archie definitely worth it in tournament. Spot on re: the flexibility of his summoning as in some matches a Varghulf to muster one of those Crypt Flayer blocks (Courtier can’t be everywhere) while still doing some damage will be key. In others dropping a big block of Crypt Ghouls on an objective can swing a match. But I guess that’s the question. Do you have the summoning options to fully take advantage of Archie?

The results are in. Fyreslayers went 4-2. They went 3-0 in the first set of games but when the tables flipped proved harder to pilot by players unfamiliar with the faction. Retaining the buff bubbles proved especially difficult for first time players. Mawtribes also went 4-2 but with the opposite approach. As it is arguably the most played faction in Zoom League both Fyreslayers and Khorne were ready for them in the first set of matches, resulting in the list going 1-2. But said familiarity made it the easiest list for other players to pick up and succeed with and thus went 3-0 when the tables flipped. Khorne went 3-3 after a good start going 2-1 but losing again to Fyreslayers when the tables turned and to Mawtribes as well. Bonsplitterz struggled to 1-5 but had the distinction of picking up the first victory against Fyreslayers when the tables turned and had shots at two more victories snatched away late in the game.

Shoot the Heroes is so 2020. In 2021 we eat them! Gutbusters and Swifthawk Agents were the first two armies I bought when I made a second try at Age of Sigmar (first failed attempt had been in WFB days with the dwarves & goblins starter set). Especially since Swifthawk Agents got squatted that means I’ve probably played more Ogors than anything else. Thus while the list was very different from one I would’ve built when the tables flipped and it came time to pilot the Mawtribes list against my Fyreslayers list I felt reasonably comfortable. I was actually okay when I lost the first roll as once I knew he would finish his set up first and choose priority I knew I could hold back on most of my deployment to see what he would do. I did have to put the Mawpot out early, a clear tell in a list with a Butcher that he responded to by dropping the 20x Hearthguard Berzerkers across the table from it in the West. That made it pretty clear that my best chances lay in the East and hopefully the center objective in Focal Points. So I hoped that the Mawpot’s frontage and a screen of 2x Mournfang on either side would be enough to keep the Butcher alive for one turn when his 7nits would be in range of Voracious Maw. The rest of my army went East with a unit of Ironguts not too far off center to go for the center objective if possible but all three Stonehorns (of the Frostlord, Huskard and Beastriders varieties) in front of the Eastern objective in my territory. (The Icebrow Hunter and 2x Frost Sabres started in Ambush as per usual). Sure enough Fyreslayers went first and used the extra R1 movement from Vostarg plus the Vostarg run& charge command trait to get across the board in the West. The width of the Mawpot and the need to keep the units in a 12” bubble meant they could only go after one side of the Mournfang Pack, and at that only get a few models into combat. (Though maybe some should’ve started trying to climb the Mawpot instead of going around it? Maybe I’ll try that approach next time...) That and a few good Save Rolls meant that it took both pile ins to kill the Mournfang, preserving the Butcher. The Runesmiter on foot had come out of the magmic tunnel in the center of my backfield line but the unit of 10x Vulkites that came with them failed their 9” charge and the CP reroll, leaving my three Stonehorns free to move in my turn. In my turn, was able to get Voracious Maw off and boy oh boy was it hungry!!! For those of you not familiar with arguably my favorite spell it does d3 Damage when it goes off, but then you roll d6 again and on a 4+ it is still hungry and takes another bite (for another d3). Rinse and repeat until you fail a 4+ and it is satisfied or the target unit dies and the Maw is satisfied. In this tournament we’d seen a lot of nibbling (1 bite) some snacking (2 bites) and even a couple light meals (3 bites). In this match the Voracious Maw tucked in for a full meal going off four times. So, as tempting as it was to go after the Hearthguard Berzerkers and as risky as it was with the Sworn Protector Auric Hearthguard there to eat wounds for the Battlesmith with 4 attempts enough Damage had gone through and stuck on him to kill the Battlesmith. The Runefather was still there for the 4++ and Lords of the Lodge but was farther East and in combat with the Ironguts so even after they decided not to defend the icon it was going to be tough for the HBs to stay in the bubble if they went any farther West. Of course that was what I wanted so after the Hero Phase I Promptly ran the remaining Mournfang and Butcher Westward. Figured they couldn’t ignore the Butcher after that (though the chances of it going off like that again were low...) so hoped to draw the HBs even further West. Meanwhile my Stonehorns were able to rampage in the East and Center wracking up points. When my opponent took the Butcher Bait in their turn they came out of the buff bubbles and thus were both weaker and, with only 4” moves left if they wanted to Charge, I could ignore them for a turn and mop up the rest of the issues in the West leaving us at the end of R2 essentially reversed with the Mawtribes now in control of the North and the Fyreslayers in the South. Movement limitations meant I could set up the Charges I needed much easier than my opponent so R3 was mainly about me setting up the pins and knocking them down. By end of R3 Mawtribes had an insurmountable VP lead and the match was conceded. Again, learned a lot about the list and it’s strengths and limitations by playing against it three times. It takes a lot of discipline to maintain those buff bubbles and it is difficult against armies with magic or shooting with good range to protect the key support Heroes. But you do have some tools to do it if you stay patient in R1&2. The obvious risk to patience even when it does work out is by R3+ your foot units aren’t going to be going very far unless your opponent is obliging with the charge opportunities. That’s why in this list I think part of the patience is holding back the Magmadroths in the first two rounds. Yes, their range makes them good for reaching out early but they just aren’t that resilient so if you really want them to shine you need to hold them for later rounds when maybe you can pick your battles a little better after hopefully your anvil has broken a few of your opponent’s hammers... With the right Ur-gold Rune they might even do some real damage if they get to hit first. That said, as much as I want to like Magmadroths having two attacks very limited against small units (the fyrestream missile attack and the lashing tail) just hamstrings these units). Would love to see Magmadroths get an IDk-esque upgrade in a future BR tome...

Generally there’s enough armies in rotation that this doesn’t come up except at tournaments for me. There of course I’m hoping to play armies I’ve never played before but accept that it won’t always work out. On general principle though I both appreciate seeing how another opponent plays my army and trying to solve the problems my army creates. Almost always learn something. Appreciate the lore perspective as I’m a big narrative gamer but in AoS think it is easier. And agree wording of poll a bit awkward (know how hard this can be to write so just a soft constructive critique here) so of course I wouldn’t want a majority of matches to be mirrors (if that was what was implied). Variety is a vital spice to a tasty game.

The first set of Ultimate Bragging Rights (beating your opponent with your own list and then turning around and under the same conditions beating them with theirs) came about in arguably the most predictable way. The player who had built the Khorne list actually had even more experience playing Mawtribes so when the tables flipped, even though the opponent’s list they were playing wasn’t the Triple Frostlord build they’re known for running they still had plenty of familiarity with how the faction worked. That said, they hardly played it the way the BCR half of Mawtribes is normally played. There were no rapid advances followed by daring charges in the first few turns. In fact for two factions that tend to favor more aggressive play styles piloted by two players who tend to favor forceful opening gambits the early going was... pretty much a waiting game as the players secured their own objectives and tried to draw out their opponent’s units. Small forays with Flesh Hounds were made and the Icebrow and his kitties came out of ambush to waste Skarbrand’s powered up profile in R2 but other than that the Stonehorns and Bloodthirsters were largely avoiding each other. Really the biggest difference in the picture below from the starting one above is just the Flesh Hounds were now Blood Tithe... The player piloting Khorne’s patience broke first as they began advancing up the table, which allowed their opponent to pick the charges for the Stonehorns. The damage from the charges and the resilience of the Stonehorns’ 5++ offset the activation benefits. As a result, once Combat was truly engaged it was over pretty quickly and we had our first flip of results. The second set of Ultimate Bragging Rights took a lot more effort as it required piloting the 0-4 Bonesplitterz list to victory against the 4-0 Fyreslayers. I reported this battle rep in pretty decent detail in the Fyreslayers thread but the basics were that it came down to leveraging the battleplan’s multiple objective format to score points on the half of the board the 20x Hearthguard Berzerkers were not on while slowing their advance in their half and avoiding a big fight on that side as long as possible. While in this case both players lacked experience piloting the other’s faction it still epitomized what I’d pictured all this time when I’d thought about this style of play. Winning both games required you to leverage your lists strengths first and then exploit its weaknesses second, and with only the tools at hand. If the Bonesplitterz had been Drakkfoot the tools available (e.g. negating any wound negation...) would’ve been pretty solid but as it was it required a bit of MacGyviring to get it done. For example, ideally you’re getting Savage Big Stabbas into your opponent’s MONSTERs, in this case Magmadroths, for all the bonuses they get. In this match what mattered most was their movement to get them into a position to speed bump the Hearthguard Berzerkers. This caused them to waste some of the Vostarg movement bonuses in R1. Keeping them in the middle of the table an extra turn. At that it still required some luck with initiatives (I’m notorious for rolling 2s here but actually won two initiatives on them this game..) and the Rogue Idol still being pissed if at Forgeworld for discontinuing him, taking it out on any enemy models that might be around. But ultimately happy that the format did show that it isn’t just about the list with two match flips now in the books.

This is kind of an in memoriam as I’m just waiting for my last three LoA units to sell. But I did want to pay tribute to what was a very fun army while it lasted and a great army to teach people to play AoS with. We ran an Execution Herd centric list, backed up by Magma Cannon, Daemonsmiths & K’daii. At one point we’d tried the whole Hashut with different artillery pieces but really only the Magma Cannon was worth the points. Kept the Iron Daemon around to haul the Magma Cannon sometimes but where it really came into its own was when we started using ally points to bring in Khorne units, typically either Skarbrand or Mazarall, which added another piece your opponent had to think about. But with the Execution Herd’s mobility, the K’daii’s utility and some artillery back up it was a lot of fun on the table. And it had just enough of each element of the game to be almost ideal for teaching new players. Blackshard Armor also typically meant pieces hung around for long enough for them to get a feel for the game. Didn’t wrack up a ton of wins but came through enough that it kept people interested. Still disappointed the player in our group who was going to bring it to the local tournament had to drop out due to work and thus it never got outside our circle. Highlight was a two game narrative against Khorne last year. With it being discontinued though and trying to keep my AoS moves “budget neutral” as sad as I am to see it go it pays for my Sons of Behemat which hopefully will be just as much fun.

Understand ad based business model too but thought on of the benefits of subscription was their absence. Yet I’m seeing them as well.

In building their Bonesplitterz list opponent had chosen to go without a sub-faction. Given strength of Drakkfoot relative to both Mawtribes and Fyreslayers personally think this was a mistake and significant contributing factor to list having gone 0-4 until this match up as the generic CT not worth it and unlimited Artefact choice obviously less important when you’re choosing three...

The Fyreslayers list I had created was 4-0 in the tournament. The list I was piloting against it was 0-4. But I had a theory... And I truly believed that this was my best chance in the tournament at “Ultimate Bragging Right” where I beat my opponent with my list and then flipped the tables and beat him with his own. Key to this belief was the Battleplan. Scorched Earth starts with 8 objectives which is a lot to cover with Fyreslayers since they work best when they’re clustered together. In the first go round I’d pulled out the victory but it had been a close call as I’d let myself get stretched to where my key Hearthguard Berzerkers had gotten out of the buff bubbles and exposed to counter attack. As I read through the war scrolls, battalion buffs, faction abilities, etc. I was convinced that the Bonesplitterz had the ability to stretch that Fyreslayers list even further, probably to a breaking point. But it didn’t start off well. Both lists were six drops so the first roll would determine who got to pick who went first. That meant I’d have to make my pre-R1 Bonesplitterz 5” moves before I knew whether I was going first or second. I caught a break though when my opponent placed the Hearthguard Berzerkers down early so that I knew which flank (East in this case) I would be chaffing with Arrowboys and Savage Orruks deep in the backfield and which side I would be overloading with the Rogue Idol and all my WIZARDS to hopefully capture and burn objectives in my opponents backfield. Sticking the Savage Big Stabbas, viewed by my opponent as key to the list they’d built, in the middle was the best distraction I could come up with as my best hope was to throw them into the Runefather in Magmadroth for their bonus against MONSTERS but I’d accepted that they might just be a speed bump, delaying the HBs another turn before they could get into my territory and start burning my objectives. Having trouble uploading photos for the moment but to summarize in the East, spread across two objectives I had the 10x Savage Orruks. Behind them I had the Savage Big Boss from their battalion then the 20x Arrowboys. Across from them was the 20x HBs & Battlesmith, flanked by the Runefather on Magmadroth beside the Forge with the Runemaster behind the Forge. In the middle I had the other 10x Arrowboys screening the 2 units of 2x Savage Big Stabbas and the Battalion Big Boss. All the way over to the West I had the Rogue Idol and my three Wizards. Across from them was the Runesmiter on Magmadroth and both the 20x Vulkites w/shields & warpicks and behind them the 10x Vulkites with paired axes. My opponent had put the 5x Auric Hearthguard in the tunnel with the Runesmiter on Foot. So my opponent had already stretched their initial deployment more than I had. I used my pre-moves to move up the Rogue Idol and Wizards and to reposition the 10x Arrowboys to backfill the gap they’d opened a little bit. When my opponent had me go first I buffed up the Rogue Idol and charged him and the Maniak Weirdnob forward into the Runesmiter on Magmadroth and the 20x Vulkites. The Rogue Idol largely focused on the Vulkites and did enough damage to kill 11. I’d come in at the far edge to limit Berzerk Fury as much as possible and between that and some great Saves Pebbles was still feeling good at end of R1.1 even if not much damage had yet been done to the Magmadroth. Was surprised when my opponent didn’t CP it but the rest fled from battle shock. On their turn my opponent used the Vostarg move buffs to get the HBs and Battlesmith to the middle of the table. My Savage Big Stabbas had failed their charge into the Runefather on Magmadroth so they were able to advance a little farther with a charge but sustaining the 12” bubble limited them just enough on the first pile in. In the West they popped the Grand Ritual and charged the 10x Vulkites into Pebbles hoping the Saves would preserve them. The West fought to a standstill and my Savage Big Stabbas fell but at least took some HBs with them. I got lucky and won initiative despite a low roll. (This somehow is very rare for me. I once went to whole games without winning an initiative, and have even lost ties on 6s so was shocked but grateful to have this one go my way. ) I was able to clear out the West and burn one of the objectives but in the East all I did was plink away at the HBs (the 100+ shots with the battalion ability to shoot in Hero Phase only translated into a few wounds but I was happy for what I could get) and a little repositioning of the Savage Orruks meant that the HBs should only be able to charge and pile into them, preventing a follow through pile in fro Lords of the Lodge into the Arrowboys. My opponent would get into the Savage Orruks and bring the units out of the tunnel in the East as well to charge the other objective in that half, but I would finish with enough models around each to just barely hold onto the objective for one more turn. And I’d somehow manage to again win the initiative. The Rogue Idol would clear the Runefather off the other Western objective but a flying Maniak Weirdbob only managed to race across the battlefield to get into a pillow fight in the East with the Runemaster. By their turn my opponent was looking at a slightly better than half strength unit of HBs (11x) that would clear off the remaining Arrowboys and take one of the Eastern objectives. The Battlesmith was hanging on with 1 Wound left, vulnerable to any shooting or magic in my turn. In their own territory all they had left was the Runemaster and the Runesmiter on foot. I had the mobility and power to take the rest of the objectives in their territory, and with the HERO bonus. They had the power but likely lacked the mobility, especially if I was able to move the remaining Arrowboys out of Charge range, and might not have any HEROES left to garner bonus points. In other words the VP gap I had already opened was more likely to expand in R4&5 than contract. With the concession “Ultimate Bragging Rights” were secure. Even having cracked my own list though I still like it a lot. There is a bit of an anvil without a hammer issue to using a single block of 20x HBs instead of two. Positioned well though and you can try and force your opponent to break their hammer against it. If your opponent declines then you’ve got to be a lot more creative. If the Auric Hearthguard was larger could definitely see the virtue of putting them in the tunnel and popping them up to shoot a key unit (in this game they did snipe one of my Savage Big Bosses even at lower strength) but I think the Vulkites remain the better choice. I can definitely see the appeal though of lists that use gyrocopter allies instead. And this type of problem solving is appealing across the table as well. As seen in another post above I really enjoyed trying to crack this list with Khorne Daemons. Think I had the right idea but was too far behind on VP by the time I’d taken out the Battlesmith to take advantage. Here a lot of patience and a very different play style that I normally use secured me the victory. Fully acknowledge this isn’t the double 20x HB Hermdar list that is the actual source of most complaints but here’s at least some counter evidence to the argument that Fyreslayers are no fun to play against. Two games in a row I’ve had a blast and can’t wait to try again with Mawtribes next week!

Been looking at some of the other smaller factions I have experience with, and while I acknowledge my bias for Cavalry, it really does stick out as the most obvious "gap" in the line. Clearly Fyreslayers aren't lacking for HERO options, having as many if not more options than FEC, Ironjawz or Bonesplitterz and filling most of the same roles (if you're willing to switch Prayers for Spells, and arguably as there is no unbind option against ours so...) absent FEC's summoning and that is less a line size issue than a faction mechanics issue. Looking at MONSTERS certainly we can debate how well ye olde Magmadroth stacks up to these comparison but we have it (and three rider options...) and thus we check the same box that FEC checks with their Royal Terrorgheist & Zombie Dragons, Ironjawz checks with their Mawkrusha and Bonesplitterz used to check with the Rogue Idol. Similarly looking for a (relatively) Big Blob Battleline we can throw 30x Vulkite Berzerkers out there to match up against FEC's Crypt Ghouls, Ironjawz's Ardboyz or Bonesplitterz Savage Orruks. Looking for something a little more hard hitting and we can put out our Hearthguard Berzerkers up against the best of any faction, nonetheless FEC's Crypt Horrors, Ironjawz's Brutes or Bonesplitterz... well actually Bonesplitterz don't have this tool really being an even smaller faction than Fyreslayers until they got lumped in with the bigger armored cousins. But them we turn to the unit that rounds out these other factions and for Fyreslayers we get Auric Hearthguard. Again, I'm on record of loving the look of the our dragon axe flamethrowers. And it is nice to get some shooting in that is NOT dependent on the # of models in the target unit (looking at you side eye Mr. Magmadroth) or what I can only figure is dice rolling exercise for your wrist because nothing ever seems to come of it (looking at you throwing axes...). Yet, looking at these other armies it is clear that they just aren't what Fyreslayers is missing. Rounding out FEC we see the Crypt Flayers, which while not mounted have all the movement of Cav. Ironjawz get Goregruntas. Bonesplitterz get their Boars. So yeah, even when looking at other very small unit option factions this gap is an obvious start point for GW if they're looking to fill in the line. Again, not exactly revelatory but of course it gets to the point that even though say, Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz had most of the tools they were still combined to have even more tools. I didn't put Gutbusters or Beastclaw Raiders in the above but there is an example of armies that were missing a few tools but gained them by getting together. So while it would be great if GW just, you know, filled in the line with some Cav and maybe a couple other variations if we're being greedy, I lean into believing Duardin will go the way of Orruks and Ogors and see a family reunion.

Again, all for more unit choice (particularly if Cavalry!). Think there are good questions re:battle line. Personally prefer the Ironjawz everything is battleline except Heroes for smaller factions to you get one and then “Battleline if”. Personally don’t spam HBs at moment, just run on block in Lords of Lodge, and wish it was easier to fit in more AH because I do love the idea of a dragon axe flamethrower combo, but as they can’t be battleline at same time as HBs. So my ideal likely something like 20x HBs w/Flamestrike (I do like the look of those over the regular axes), 20x VBs w/pick axe and shield, and 10x/5x AHs. But that build not valid undercurrent restrictions.

No Ultimate Bragging rights were achieved in the first week of flipped tables in Zoom League for a replay of Shifting Objectives @ 2K with players now using their opponent’s lists. Until late in the game it looked like Bonesplitterz were going to pull out their first win. Somebody apparently told Pebbles, or Rogue Idol, that Forgeworld had decided to cancel him and he didn’t take it well as he moved into the middle where it preceded to put a beating down in the early rounds; wiping out a unit of Ironguts and a unit of Mournfang. Pebbles would finally fall to the Frostlord on Stonehorn but by that point he’d allowed Bonesplitterz to hold onto a modest VP lead by giving them control of the middle of the board and essentially “freezing” the Frostlord in place for two turns before dying in R3. It was 6-5 at the end of R1. 11-9 at end of R2. At the bottom of R3 it was the Bonesplitterz turn and if they did almost nothing they were going to go up 15-12. Really they just had to hold on against the single Mournfang in the West (which would also remove the last battleline Mawtribes could use to wrack up bonus points) and an Icebrow Hunter. At worst they were well positioned to go up 14-12. At that point the Mawtribes list would be scrambling to move around the board with the limited units they had left to close the gap in the final rounds and need a little luck as to where the primary objective fell at that. Instead, (maybe because they forgot they were no playing an army that largely sucked in melee instead of the Mawtribes they had grown used to?) Bonesplitterz tried to move their Arrowboys off the central objective to a potential charge into the Huskard on Stonehorn sitting on the primary objective. But when the charge failed they were left in no man’s land, too far away to give a bonus for the Central objective but nowhere close enough to challenge in the West. Net result was a 13-12 game at end of R3. Bonesplitterz got lucky and got the double turn but then charged the Arrowboys into the newly freed up Frostlord, (it went as well as you’d expect, refilling Mawpot to add insult to injury) conceding the primary objective in the East under the Huskard’s control. This would push the score to 17-12 but in their turn Mawtribes would score the East and the West to close the gap to 17-16 at which point the Bonesplitterz only had two models left. In R5 when the objective came down under Mawtribes control and Mawtribes won initiative Bonesplitterz conceded the game. As the concierge this was a tough one as I really felt like Bonesplitterz could hold out for a VP win even if they were tabled if they’d just played for VP at the end of R3. They’d get bad luck admittedly with how the primary fell a couple times it a 3 VP lead at end of R3 looks like it might have held and even been extended to a 4 VP lead in R4 that, without battleline and down to a few units, could’ve stood a tabling in R5. Given how familiar the player piloting Bonesplitterz this game was with Mawtribes they should’ve known that the while they were low on models, the two Stonehorns were going to be pretty resilient. But in talking with them post game they seemed to get fixated on taking out one of the two remaining Stonehorns and thus made moves that hurt them on a VP level and cost them the game. On the Fyreslayers main thread I went into detail on Khorne vs. Fyreslayers. The net of that match was while as Khorne I had a plan to end the Fyreslayer win streak I’d built up it (a) took too long to develop so even though I pulled off the key elements it didn’t matter because (b) a couple failed charges and a couple dozen 2s on the dice in R1 meant that I scored 0 VP after my opponent had wracked up the full 7 in their first turn and it was just too big a deficit to climb out of. Coming up we have the Khorne v Mawtribes and Fyreslayers v Bonesplitterz rematches in Scorched Earth. Really hoping to see a reversal this round. Hoping Pebbles is still angry at FW and does as well for me as he did last week!