Saturmorn Carvilli

In attempt to steer a couple of people from dominating and deviating the thread, "So how does everyone feel about Age of Sigmar?" further, I started this thread to better allow discussion of what are the stakes in the setting of Age of Sigmar. I am still rather new to AoS and still digesting much of the lore. That said, I was under the impression that Sigmar couldn't really afford to allow Chaos to gather anymore control over the Mortal Realms without them be corrupted forever. It was for that reason that the Stormcast Enternals are ultimately flawed immortals. It would stand then if that is the case, that Sigmar can no longer afford to retreat back to Azyr and seal the gates since he would practically all ground gained during the Age of Sigmar, lose the element of surprise that came with initial SCE invasion and Chaos/Death/Destruction would much more easily access the now exposed relics, god-beasts, etc. further strengthening the foes of Sigmar and Grand Alliance Order.

I am somewhat disappointed, but understand, in the delay with the Lumineth. Especially, with 9th edition 40k. I have been through enough edition changes to know it's probably best to hold off playing for a few months so all the players who basically hate game but have hope this time it will be better get fed up and leave again. So I have been wanting to play a lot more AoS in the meanwhile. I am stoked about playing Lumineth (my second AoS army). However, with the September release, and I assume late September; it won't be until I probably want to get back to 40k before I have my army battleready. I guess it is what it is though. Not like I have a shortage of things to paint. Besides which, I don't do nearly as much painting during the summer anyways.

I believe GW when they say that Indomitus was most produced box set my a wide margin. It still boggles my mind that it sold out as fast at it did. I mean I like just about all the space marine models in it and they would/will make fine additions to my collection. Even at this point, I haven't really looked that close at the Necron models or rules. I figured they'd be easy to paint and would have expanded my small kill team nicely. Point is, limited or not, it was just Space Marines and Necrons. The space marines are even that great of a place to start an army if you ask me as a Primaris only space marine player. Assault Intercessors look good, but aren't going to work nearly as well as Intercessors with some kind of bolt rifle. The Bladeguard and Eradicators are probably going to need a Repulsor to work well. Perhaps another 3 in their squads (if they are allowed 6 marines). Which if they are anything like the Aggressors is a lot points in a single high-profile basket. The bikes will probably be fine, but definitely will need more than 3 of them to work. Since this isn't a 40k forum, the point is; Indomitus marines are pretty specific in their roles compared the more generic stuff found in Dark Imperium, Know No Fear or First Strike. I would go as far as saying even if their role is fun, it will probably be kinda hard to accomplish. Finally, I do think the days of marines having great rules are numbered. I think by this time next year, there's a good chance marines are going to be back in the middle of pack or worst. I honestly can't tell if space marines will flood the secondary markets next year. I mean I think there's a good chance that a good number of players are going to find 40k not to their liking. Or if marines get nerfed back in line, there may be piles Indomitus stuff on eBay. At the same time, I have been trying to get a cheap set of Infiltrators/Incursors from Saga of the Beast, but they have consistently stayed within 80% of retail. I know I was planning on spending a month or so working on my space marine army when I got the new set. I still have a bunch of Primaris stuff still to paint, but Indomitus is months away for me now. What I am getting at is I am surprised that Indomitus sold so fast while I am sure that better space marine starters such as Know No Fear are/were available if the goal was to start 40k. Maybe they were all bought up too. I don't maybe there are just that many people that want to start Necrons. I just don't know where all these customers came from as I don't really think scaplers and FOMO'ers could have made up that much of the numbers. Could they?

I think it is less me undervaluing Healing and more my army does very little damage. I consider 7-8 wounds at Rend -1 a pretty solid hit with my army (usually 10 Knights with Daemonic Strength running or similar). That just isn't deleting anything but the smallest of chaff units or weakest of Heroes. So my particular army has to grind on most enemy units 2-3 rounds to come out on top (if I can survive that long). Regardless of how turn order comes out, my opponent is going to get a number of chances to heal if they have the capability. For me, healing, which I don't consider to dissimilar to summoning (wounds no points were paid for), also feels kinda overpowered. Again, in most cases it probably isn't, but when your army only really has units they have plus maybe a few Warcry Cultists summons, it can be tough watching your wounds diminish at a faster rate than your opponent's. Which for an attrition army like mine, usually means a loss. Again, I don't have that many games under my belt, know my army isn't very optimized and I will probably not ever be a good player at AoS. I am surprised I have even won games at all with it. So anything that feels overpowered to me I chalk up to my shortcomings more than the game. I know full well Double Turns can make or break some factions. A number my of opponents seem to play them and are elated or crushed depending on the result of Initiative. At the same time, some factions aren't too bothered by Double Turns either (I know mine isn't). I think for that alone, it is understandable why debates on getting rid of Double Turns get a little long winded. I think one of the biggest weaknesses AoS has is too many factions/armies can be hard-countered by something, and thier nothing they can really do about it. Sometimes the hard-counter is another faction. I know I probably don't stand a chance vs. OBRs as they do what my army does but more focused/better. Other times it is a particular mechanic such as Double Turns or maybe Magic. With more rounded unit options for every faction maybe this wouldn't be an issue. I don't know what the solution could be. I do know that often AoS games feel like two powerful energies pushing against each and if one slips slightly it is annihilated. It surprises me that I have seen as many close games as I have since it feels so easy to fall off that tightrope with a single mistake.

Beyond first turn, I think the only thing Double turn gets you is better table positioning for the most part. After Round 2, most of my hammer-ish (Knights/Varanguard/Heroes) units have locked themselves in fights and very likely by the end of the Round are either looking to clear that fight or have been cleared themselves. If the objectives are static double turn movement isn't that much of a boon usually. Moving objectives can be won or loss with Double Turn moves, but that's the drawback of me having a fairly slow army too. The only thing that really upsets the balance is armies with high amounts of Shooting. Which I do face quite a bit with DoT flamers and KO overall. It does seem kinda OP to me, but I can't say that for certain as my faction is very low on meaningful ranged units so of course I am going to feel a Phase that I don't really participate in is going to feel broken when 9 flamers and an Exalted flamers basically hit me with +2, Rend -1 while I am bogged down against Pink/Blue/Yellow Horrors. But I could say the same about healing and summoning which I feel my army is also pretty weak. So while I feel it is OP, I don't know if it actually is or if it is just a matter I can't really do anything about it with my army. I lean toward the latter since the 'Grass is Greener' is probably more in effect than it actually being overpowered.

Between my Chaos Warrior/Knight army and my expected Lumineth army, I already think there's a good number of factions that can play like a more old fashioned Rank and File game. So I don't really Bretonnia adds much there. Unless you are looking for sort of all chaff version with more normal humans. Which I don't see being that popular. At least with GW minis. Lorewise, the peoples of Bretonnia and been dispersed between those that got through the gate before Sigmar closed it, those who fell Chaos (one way or another) or became a servant of Nagash. I could see Sigmar naming a city Bretonnia, but I also see Chaos and Death trying to raze it at every opportunity as it would remind them of when Sigmar turned his back on them.

I agree with PrimeElectrid. I think Age of Sigmar does a pretty good job placing pros and cons for going first or second for an IGOUGO system. My current army is pretty capable to handle either which usually has my opponents taking a think about going first or second since most of them are less capable of weathering a double turn than me, but them going first means I can get a lot more charges off as they move into no-man's-land.

I have only been playing AoS since last November. Despite a very rocky introduction to the game, I like it more than 40k currently. In fact, I kinda want to only be playing AoS, and maybe a but of Kill Tea, for the next few months so all the people who are invariably going to come back to 40k through 9th only to state it is the worst edition ever and go back to bashing it at every turn stop playing and rant about it online. It happens every edition even though 40k has always been 40k. Even if that wasn't the case, I think AoS is a much better game than 40k 8th or 9th edition. It is simple yet offers more complexity than my experience with GW games has been. Most (including both 8th/9th 40k) GW games are complicated yet ultimately shallow experiences for me. It is way too front loaded with list building which AoS still has as it is still a GW game. 8th/9th even doubled down on this with stratagems, and I would say stratagem bloat. Much like D&D 3rd edition's Feat bloat. The spoiler is a decently long story on me starting to play AoS: I find myself enjoying the lore more and more. I like the blank canvas of Age of Sigmar as a longtime PnPrpg player. I also applaud the creators with trying something more outside the box of what fantasy has largely stayed confined in. I can definitely see myself drifting more and more away from 40k toward AoS. More so if AoS continues to stay largely a more 'gentleman/womany' affair compared to prepping for the next tournament-playing the tournament faux e-sport 40k has been moving toward in my area for some time now. Neither are inherently wrong, I just don't want to play miniatures war games on the razor's edge of competition.

First thing that sprung to mind was the Maw-Krusha.

I can agree with that. I am not a particularly competitive, or even a good player, but my Ravagers Slaves to Darkness army doesn't really care about going first or second. The army itself is about 6-7 drops consisting mostly of mortal heroes, Warriors and Knights/Varanguard. It is setup to be an attrition army. Since that is all I can expect it to accomplish with few, if sometimes accurate, attacks and practically no Rend. So, I don't really care about getting charges or double-turns all that much. My units are going to be punching bags that will try to hold ground and/or grind away at my opponent's army. I usually go with a 2/3rds strategy where I plan to try and control 2/3rds of the table leaving the other 1/3 to my opponent. With more drops it becomes much easier to pull off that strategy off as I can easily setup a denied flank long after my opponent finished deploying. Going first allows my army to better get into position (especially if my opponent doesn't get the double-turn) and going second gets me the usual double-turn/pick my fights. Either way, I can try and gain an advantage while reducing any drawbacks.

For most of the lock down I had been working on a 40k Death Guard commission. I did managed to finish up all the old sculpt Chaos Warriors and most of my Warcry Starter stuff.

I am planning out how to build my army as the rest of the models are released. I am not looking for competitive optimization as my group generally don't play that way. That said, I do want to make sure I am doing things correctly as I never had to worry about generating enough Battleline with my S2D army. Nation: Ymetrica Hero: Light of Eltherion, Stone Mage Battleline: Wardens x20, Wardens x20, Dawnriders x5, Dawnriders x5, Sentinels x10, Sentinels x10, Stone Guard (Mallets) x5, Stone Guard (Picks) x5 Behemoth: Spirit of the Mountain Endless Spell: one of the Lumineth Endless Spells Should be 1940-1980pts depending on the Endless Spell added . Not sure if I got the Battleline stuff sorted right. The app doesn't seem to say something is wrong, but that doesn't mean didn't see it. I kinda want to lean into the Mountain/Stone aspect of the faction, but I don't quite know if I want to commit to price of whatever the Stone Guard box is going to be beyond building a unit of each weapon type. I figure once I get most this painted, I will have a few games under my belt and can decide if I want more Stone Guard or not. I figure that list above would be a decent all-rounder with built largely with classic rank and file flair I like as a basis and grounding point to know how to use them.

I know one of the players in my group is excited for the Hero builder. I generally don't find any GW game enough 'serious business' to mind zany rules like character builders. I am more curious what kind a heroes that player is going to go for considering his KO also have Fyreslayers. I am more on the fence about picking up the GHB as I don't really like the not mandatory-mandatory DLC nature of it. As the same time, the pocket sized rule book Battleplans from 2018 and 2018 were way better than the earlier ones.

Wow, my 2000pt army went down about 120-140 points. Edit: I thought Varanguard are/were 300 points though. Unless that reads 280. It is hard for me to tell.

I wouldn't be that worried. I really want to start a Lumineth army, and I barely could convince myself to pick it up. I mostly got this box as a way to support my LFGS who had to survive on online sales for nearly 3 months. I also had a bit of money made from painting commissions which always go back into the hobby. Otherwise, I would have very much waited. The box is a long ways from having enough to build anything more than a 500pt army. Has a bunch of extras/special edition stuff that really doesn't make it worth more than a Start Collecting and a Battletome for me (I got plenty of dice). For the same reasons, I think it is a poor product to buy and piece out for profit like I assume a good number of boxed sets often get purchased as. Especially 'limited edition' type stuff. Finally, I think there may be a number of players out there like me who play both AoS and 40k. That Indomitus box does look pretty good (and expensive) which I also plan to get and also had me reconsidering starting the Lumineth.

For my Lumineth army, I want to go something when I say that looks like it could be from Atlantis. So I am thinking bronze trim with silver for the bit of scalemail and metal bits of weapons. As contrast to my S2D army's black and gold, I think I do want to keep most of it in whites, but go with something like ivory so it isn't as bright. Finally, I think I want to use blue green with, oddly enough, Vallejo German Uniform (the early war green color). I haven't quite figured out just how far I want my paint to alter how GW has them painted just yet. Ultimately I don't plan on painting them (which mean I won't be playing them) for a bit unless some of the art in the Battletome or early painters' armies inspire me.

I can confirm this. I literally pointed this out to a KO opponent while playing my S2D army after I rolled them so bad in our first game he conceded like 45 minutes in. We setup again, and I gave him pointers where the weak spots in my army were to get is confidence back up. My opponent then took a couple of shots at one of my Chaos Sorcerer Lords but Look Out Sir and later after I could get Oracular Vision up he just gave up targeting him going for the 15 Warriors being babysat by the Sorcerer instead.

I like the Shining Company rule. I think it is the last little bit that has pushed me to start an Lumineth army. I was already doing that kind of thing with my Chaos Warriors at the start of my games as I do like the look of rank and file formations even if I don't technically have to place them that way. Heck, I oftened formed square around static objectives (mostly to protect my hero character a bit). Even a staggered row of two keeps them within in two of each other as I far as I can tell. With a 3" reach a fighting column might be needed sometimes, but I think a standard phalanx will hold up pretty well for holding ground from opposing Battleline infantry. For me, the more traditional battle formations/units, hammer elves, largely based around earth/mountain elements and the idea I can have an army diametrically opposed to my current one (Darkness vs. Light) is enough of for me to start another army. I even like the idea of the battle cattle and saying bad cow-related puns to annoy my opponent a bit. I am just coming off painting a 200+ Death Guard commission army. I was kinda hoping to get caught up with my current projects or at least slow the amount of painting I am doing some, but 9th 40k already kinda ruined that anyways... So why not pour gasoline on the fire? I am sure I will find the time to paint these guys at some point.

Games Workshop prices have effected my spending a little bit. There are a couple things here and there that I would have liked for kitbashing or just for painting, but couldn't justify the value to myself. The best example was the Tau Riptide which I came really close to getting last year just to paint and maybe be a terrain/objective piece in Kill Team. Then is was one of the big price increases of the last round. Since I wasn't going to really use it for a gaming piece and I already had too much of painting backlog, the price increase put me off getting it. I could say the same for this round and terrain. I have plenty of terrain to setup at least 3-4 Kill Team boards plus a couple of Warcry boards in terrain now. So I didn't really need more. Although, if I happen to see something around the $30US price, I wouldn't to too bother to get quickly paint it up so have something a little new to add to the board/table next game. The further that stuff gets away from there the less it becomes and nice little impulse purchase/thanks for letting me gaming at my FLGS. What really has curtailed my spending is the current release schedule. For 40K, I have a Chaos Space Marine, Primaris Space Marine and Genestealer Cult army plus a bunch of kill teams. I was staying on top of my painting to about Shadowspear. Then the new CSM and Abbadon happened. Then more Phobos Primaris happened. Again, I almost kinda caught up, then I was convinced to start a Slaves to Darkness army (which I really like). That really set back my painting log that I still haven't quite recovered. Even this year, I got bogged down with my Genestealer Cult as I had been holding off finishing the full army until the Start Collecting came out. Which it did. Then the lock down happened which should have given me time to caught up paint. And it did... for someone else's army. As a favor, I had friend of mine's Death Guard army in my possession to prime them so they could work on them. I got stuck with them instead. My friend has never been for painting so he just asked for me to do it. So some 150 miniatures later, I just have Typhus (a hero character) that I spending a little extra time one and I will be finished. Point is, I kinda wanted to start a Lumineth Realm Lords army, but I had to take a step back and really decide if I really wanted to tackle yet another project. With the 9th edition previews for 40k, I had to say no. I really have to start finishing what I already have. That means 1 more major project (the 9th edition Primaris starter probably) before I will even consider starting some more. TL;DR: I ain't happy about the price increase. For the most part it has missed the armies (or the units in them) I still want this time around. It has stopping getting a few things, but those are thing I probably shouldn't get anyways. What has affected my spending more is the release schedule really favoring the things I like (I know first world space marine problems) creating a bigger and bigger pile of shame I can't seem to get out from under. Sorry 'bout the rant.

@The Nameless One No Eightpoints?😁

@Hannibal, @Luke1705 Thanks for the input. Now that you mention it, you are right that he probably had too many points tied up in non-creatures stuff. I think he just wanted to try out the Endless Spells. I imagine he is just going to keep the Burning Sigil of Tzeentch as that one is cheap and worked okay even though I think its placement could have been better. I am not sure why he took a Battalion in at size of game we were playing. I know he doesn't a big collection for DoT yet, but he said he has enough for 2,000 points. I suspect that is pretty much everything he has though hence the reason I want to loan him some of my Tzeentch daemon stuff to allow a better constructed army. Again thanks for the information on the Horrors. Like I said, I suspected that they would be a quagmire (I know them from 40k) and not worth tangling with until I didn't really want to move from that part of the table. I do think that there is some synergy between Horrors and Screamers with Screamers holding units until the Horrors can get there and potentially having the Screamer leaving to capture objectives pick off easy targets or do any number of other things. As for the too many heroes, you are probably right. I know I decided against bringing another Sorcerer Lord on foot since I figured I would just be feeding the Destiny Dice pool or get disrupted and having a spare CP for my Chaos Lord on foot would be useful. I think he would have been better dropping the Changling, while also dropping a couple endless spells, bringing in Tzaangors and/or Flamers at very least. I think he just wanted rack up a tons of Destiny Dice to play around with. He also mentioned he was unimpressed with his Tzaangors. But has someone that was swamping the battlefield with summoned Warcry cultists, a warm body is a warm body. Finally, thank you concerning S2D units in a DoT army. I thought as long as they were Mark of Tzeentch they could be added freely, but I wasn't sure if that had somehow changed in the new Battletome. I will let my friend know. That does open up a lot more models I can loan him to give him some options even at 2,000 points until he can afford to fill in his collection while allowing some try before you by. I probably wouldn't have an issue with his Thousand Sons being proxy Chaos Warriors. I will let him know about this information. I don't mind losing especially with my S2D army as they seem to make a great punching bag. However, my friend I think wants to get a little more out his army but hasn't figured out how he wants to do it. So I think he has been pretty frustrated which is understandable. He as much a Thousand Sons/Disciples of Tzeentch player as I am a Black Legion/Slaves to Darkness. So I think part of his frustration is he does way better with his Thousand Sons even though he likes Age of Sigmar more.

A bit of strange request, but I played a 1500-ish point game between S2D (me) vs. DoT. My army did fine, but my friend's was a little glum at the performance of his. I think is biggest complaint was nothing in his army seemed to synergize. For reference my army was: Karkadrak Chaos Lord, Chaos Lord on Foot, Sorcerer Lord on Foot, 15 Warriors (sword and board) x2, 10 Knights (Ensorcelled Weapons) All Undivided, Ravagers Legion His army was something like: Lord of Change, Changling, Gaunt Summoner on Disk, Changecaster, 10 Horrors, 6-9 Screamers x2, all three Tzeentch endless spells, Battalion of some sort I found that his screamers held my battleline in place for a few rounds, but didn't really whittle them down much even with who/what ever was giving them buffs. Certainly annoying being waylaid 3 rounds, but not really locking me down as I just used Rally the Tribes to bring in Warcry Cultists to secure objectives. The Tzeentch Predatory spell probably did more damage (and I don't think he will be bringing that for a while) to him that it did to me since I have Runic Shields on just about everything. The Changling also seemed like a waste as he was off on his own trying to harass my Warriors and Sorcerer garrisoned in a ruin only to ambushed my some unmade to prevent his retreat allowing the Warriors to encircle and destroy him. The Horrors seemed to do alright, but I think he just has the 1 set of each color of models so I think next game I will borrow him my set of Pink, Blue and Yellows. The Lord of Change was his MVP but was so battered from the Tzeentch Predator spell and my Karkadrak Lord (who he killed) it had to stay away from even my Warcry Cults and maybe even my Eye of the gods Furies (my Karkadrak Lord defeated his Gaunt Summoner). My opponent also summoned in another group of Screamers with an artifact, but they too just held up my remaining Knights and lesser group of Warriors the rest of the game. I never really engaged the Pink Horrors until I had to block them from an objective since I felt that they would be a game long attrition battle I didn't want to start unless I had reason to. Finally, he seemed annoyed he wasn't getting Destiny Dice as fast as he would have liked. I don't know how that system works though. Anyways, I think my opponent would have better luck with more Horrors. I think he also has 3 flamers and I have 3 flamers to borrow so I think they could work well as skirmishers (in the traditional battle sense). I believe he said he has an Exalted Flamer, if not I have one, that I hear is a really good unit in AoS. So I was wondering what he could do to punch of his army. I am thinking he can use the screamers to fly over my units engage them and bring in Horrors (or Warriors himself) in a pincer which could both encircle and devastate my Battlelines. Also, Has there been any change to DoT taking S2D units with Tzeentch Marks? I suggested that my opponent consider some Chaos Warriors or something other S2D mortal unit to hold ground, but he was under the impression he would have to ally. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that is the case. Sorry for the long post, I had a lot of ground to cover to set up the situation.

My Undivided Ravagers army runs two groups of 15 Chaos Warriors with Hand Weapon and Shield. The models were built slightly before the new Battletome, and I wasn't going to bother getting an upgrade kit for the weapons not already on the sprue. Just the same, I am okay hand weapon and shield compared to double hand weapons. At H:3+, W: 3+ it is pretty consistent at yielding me some 7-8 wounds (between losses and getting reach) most of the game. My Warriors aren't my preferred target for Daemonic Power or other combat buffs, so I can't see Great Weapons doing much better anyways being harder to hit and Rend -1 being more situational in its effectiveness considering fewer attacks connecting. Halberds are the same since mixed weapons aren't allowed, and I can get most, well enough, Warriors within reach most of the time. I could see the shield being situational depending on a player's meta. I am typically making 1-3 Runic Shield attempts every game and saving somewhere in the neighborhood of about 5 wounds throughout a game. I don't know if that is worthwhile or not as I don't really think about it since I am am not going to change my Warriors loadout. The shields do tend to have a player level psychological effect from my opponents that become a bit frustrated I have any sort of defense to Mortal Wounds. I think their plans revolve around the idea of removing models without issue. When even a 33% save interferes as they appear like they have to think on their feet more than they wanted to. I think my Warriors get targeted a whole lot less because of this. I do enjoy the schadenfreude that occurs when they also start trying to put Mortal Wounds on my knights which is followed by a run down of what units of mine don't have MW defense. At least until I have played them a few times these opponents seem overly annoyed they can't just damage these units outright. I think there are arguments to be made for most Warrior loadouts. I like sword and board since I see Warriors as purely a land control unit and want as much defense as possible since the unsuppoted offense is always going to be lacking regardless of weapon choice. Plus, I like the fact that if I decide on Mark of Khorne I am not doubling up on the same special ability which I think happens way to much in Slaves to Darkness. Finally, I have never found myself wanting extra reach or Rend to give up more consistent hitting or wounding. My Warriors are also on the bottom of the pile of units I want to give combat buffs (such as Warshrine or Daemonic Power) this hasn't been as much on an issue for me.

I agree that Chaos Warriors are a bit bland, but I don't see that as being too bad. They hold the line well enough, I would just want a little more damage coming out of them. I think they are tough enough. 4+ Save with innate re-roll over 9 models can absorb a good deal of even Rend -1. It is possible against OSR that the Mortek Guard double and then some damage output with Rend -1 makes Chaos Warriors seem more fragile. Even if it was something else, my expereince has been Bonereapers have a lot of stuff that is just as tough but hits noticeably harder. I have had KO focus fire at my Warriors for an entire turn only removing 2-3 models. You are right though, I would never run then at anything less than 15. Most games I don't even bother look to get them in fights anymore. Just run them to the part of the table I want to hold and if my opponent also wants that part of the table they have to go them my Warriors. You are right Chaos Warriors are about 30% cheaper for the same number of Wounds. Although, without help Warriors are going to lose more to Battleshock and have quite a bit less the damage output with no Rend. If you factor in a Chaos Lord on foot, Chaos Warriors become more expensive for close to the same damage output still will no Rend compared to Mortek Guard. I think it is a bad idea going head-to-head with a lot of the Bonereaper equivalents. You might be able to pull a good hammer and anvil with Warriors and Marauders though. I think both Chaos Warriors and the Stormcast equivalent could use a little more umpft. I personally don't want them cheaper as I like the numbers I run them in. I just want Chaos Warriors to be more than moving walls.

Not AoS related, but as someone that was glacially slow building a Genestealer Cult army, I am pretty disappointed the Start Collecting has the Ridge Runner and not the Goliath Truck included. I was counting on the Start Collecting featuring the truck to finally finish my army. Now, I don't know if I ever will finish it. Being both a horde army and the models being, even for GW, all the money.