Jaskier

@Graywater Thanks for the write-up! Lines up with what we expected, unfortunately - it's still too hard to go past Hagg Narr/Khailebron if we want to be competitive, especially in an all-snake army that lacks the bodies and wounds to take a hit. The silver lining is that Blood Stalkers and Morathi are both much improved, and work well together. I tried out Morathi yesterday as well (in a typical Hagg Nar list) and she was incredible; even though I positioned the Shadow Queen badly which meant she didn't see combat until the bottom of turn two, she still tore through everything she touched with ease - including Archaon! I think the trick with the Shadow Queen is placing her in a way that forces enemy units to engage her if they want to get at another of your units, opening up a hero-phase pile-in with her thanks to her little half.

Not sure if it would be better, but have you considered dropping the 15 snake unit down to 10 and instead bumping up the Stalker unit to 10? They arguably synergize better with Morathi-Khaine's command ability than Blood Sisters do, especially given you won't have a Cauldron/Hagg Narr to enhance your staying power in combat. I just worry that even with a 15 Blood Sister unit not enough will survive combat to reach your own hero phase to benefit from that command ability.

All my lists started with 3x5 Hellstriders as my Battleline tax, and when I say all my lists, I mean every single Slaanesh list I've run both at a tournament level and a casual level. I do have 30 Daemonettes (which I'd bought for summoning) and 30 Chaos Warriors I can substitute in, but dangit...this change sucks, there's no two ways about it. We no longer have a truly mobile screening Battleline choice. I didn't mind the points increase in the GHB, and I appreciate the warscroll changes, but this really sucks. Good thing my 20 Hellstriders are converted Seekers so I can try a Seeker bomb, I guess? Dunno what to do about the Battleline conundrum, as I play herohammer-Slaanesh often with 2 Keepers; heroes are what drew me to the army, and are ultimately what the allegiance rules reward you for investing in - which really pidgeon-holes us into a certain playstyle. I'm thinking 3x10 Daemonette units is probably the way I'll go, 3x5 Chaos Warriors is the cheaper and tougher option but they cover less ground for screening purposes - which ultimately is all I really want out of my Battleline now, I think.

Of those two, I'd imagine KO would be the biggest hard counter by virtue of being a nasty shooting army that can consistently redeploy to stay outside of DoK's mostly limited (melee-oriented army) threat ranges. It's a toss up between OBR and LRL after that - one has catapults and tougher units, the other has Sentinels and hyper fast cavalry that decimate infantry. However, as others have said, be careful not to pick an army that causes your sole (!) opponent to not enjoy playing their army; even with other armies to choose from, they're gonna figure out right quick that you're tailoring to beat them, and no-one I know enjoys that. Aim to be competitive with their DoK, not crush them. Sylvaneth being their second option isn't gonna help much here, as they're currently seen as one of the weaker factions in the game competitively.

Absolutely agreed. Blood Stalkers compare super well to shooting units in other armies, and give Daughters something our classic tournament lists didn't have - hero sniping, and threat beyond melee (meaning we can pick off teleporting ambusher style units like Tree Revenants rather than have to hold back to guard an objective from them.) Morathi too is another huge change; previously, transforming her immediately and hoping she didn't suffer 3 (6) wounds first was the name of the game - now, going second isn't nearly as big a hindrance for her (as it's gonna be 3 wounds, not 6) you don't lose her magic or command ability, you have an extra model with a decent melee profile, her command ability thankfully doesn't require her to be the general anymore, etc. The new allegiance isn't a replacement for Hagg Narr, and the battalions aren't great, but they're perfectly fine to represent more thematic lists. Blood Sisters are the sole disappointment for me, and that's only because their ability happens at the end of the fight phase rather than after they attack - which would've let it work alongside our hero phase pile-ins. The other problem is that of the three abilities that give them +1 attack, one is tied to a sub-faction that isn't Hagg Narr (not a good trade-off) one is way too gimmicky to use (nearby Ironscale has to kill models...which means an enemy unit gets to attack the Blood Sisters first) and the third requires Morathi, who is super expensive and hard to fit alongside a good sized Blood Sister unit. Additionally, the Ironscale's command ability is obviously fantastic for them, but when the unit itself has lost value and the Ironscale is an expensive hero option that doesn't even unlock them as Battleline...it doesn't seem super viable to me. Besides that, all smiles here! Happily building my Shadow and Pain Melusai as Blood Stalkers, which is a thought I would have never had up to a few days ago.

Turned to Crystal absolutely should have been changed before people could start stacking attack bonuses, but it also should have triggered immediately after the unit is chosen to fight like Evocators. There's no good reason it shouldn't have worked that way - and besides, it's not like Blood Sisters were considered a top tier unit before.

Witchbrew doesn't affect missile weapons unfortunately, but yeah Stalkers all of a sudden aren't so terrible anymore, perhaps not great but hero sniping utility isn't really something Daughters had good access to before. A unit of 10 output-wise is actually better than Drycha Hamadreth at range (3+ 3+ VS 4+ 3+) for less points, and Drycha has been a great sniper in all my games with her - and unlike Drycha, you can even shoot the Stalkers in the hero phase with Morathi's help! Definitely a unit to watch now. For reference, 10 Stalkers shooting at a standard 5 wound 4+ save hero, accounting for Look Out Sir, average 10 hits on a 4+ to-hit, 3 of which are mortal wounds leaving 7 hits, and they average 5 wounds on a 3+ to-wound, leading to average 3 failed saves on a 5+ thanks to Rend -1. They on average rolling kill a 5 wound 4+ save hero, and will even more easily kill more fragile heroes, with an average threat range of 32" (8" movement + 24" range.) This really bears stating; doubling the units' shots is great, but making them do mortal wounds on unmodified 6s means they aren't completely shut down by Look Out Sir anymore. They are more than twice as efficient against heroes as they used to be.

Agreed with all the above, I'm hoping either they'll drop in points or they'll get buffed in a different way. I'm very interested in the updated Blood Stalkers though, doubled in shots and their mortals happen on unmodified sixes. Doubling their output and making the mortals more reliable should finally give them a decent go of it, provided they don't jump up in points.

I'm 100% certain their Crystal Touch will be changed to be identical to the Ironscale rule; the rule explaining how it works for Blood Sisters is called 'Turned to Crystal', same as the Ironscale. Obviously they realized stacking bonus attacks on the Crystal Touch in conjunction with the new 2D6 run and charge would get out of hand real quick, but assuming this change happens it'll be interesting to see if they get any buffs to their warscroll otherwise.

The first thing I thought of was the Kairic Acolytes' Vulcharc. I'm personally hoping it's something either Tzeentchy or related to Death!

There's nothing saying you can't do both at the same time, though. Sylvaneth were one of the more popular early AoS armies because their range is cool and unique. This is also anecdotal, but Sylvaneth apparently are hugely popular among women compared to most other AoS factions - and I can say this is definitely true of my local scene - which would no doubt be helped by the fact they are a strong example of female miniature representation compared to most every other faction. I think everyone agrees that doing both at the same time is both highly feasible and bound to improve the popularity of the hobby; a win-win for everyone.

As an aside, if GW released a model based on that artwork of a Fiend in a Christmas sweater, I'd probably buy at least 50. Actually, that's a lie. I'd buy 500.

That's...literally the point of this thread. We're discussing our views on the (under)representation of women in wargaming. The research Enoby presented as a basis for this thread pointed to there being a gross imbalance in the ratio of male to female models, and how it ties into women having much less presence in the hobby than men as opposed to other hobbies like video gaming or trading card gaming. There is no specific ratio or number we're all advocating, because everyone will have a different perspective on that. As for how this ties into your tired, continued argument that women are actually over-represented in AoS when using ancient history as a reference point, what you're failing to grasp here is the underlying problem that GW has exclusive control over what they produce and sell, and until recently, they've historically not catered to an entire gender (read, half the worlds' population) much, and combined with other contributing factors like toxicity and established male-centric social stigmas, there's a gross lack of women playing AoS compared to men. To boil it down for you in laymans terms, women are drastically underrepresented in miniature form compared to men - and that statement doesn't require 'historical context' to be accurate, because when I walk into my local GW store, I know that 80% or more of the gendered miniatures are male and not female. Representation means having representatives of who you are. Men have much, much more to choose from if they want representation compared to women. It's really as simple as that.

Are you suggesting making everyone gender non-binary, or just removing gender as a concept from the setting? The former would actually do the opposite of helping push equal representation (and I say this as someone who privately identifies as non-binary) and the latter would accomplish nothing and make no sense given humans are a core foundation for the setting and gender is a core part of human identity. And no offence, but the bit at the end of your post about "the sake of p.c. inclusionary pandering" is not at all conducive to this discussion about diversity and representation and frames your argument in a bad light.

My perspective on this topic is simply that diversity is amazing and something to be celebrated. GW has come leaps and bounds in helping make the hobby more inclusive for women through more model and lore representation in recent years, but I would also argue they can do so much more. Even if you discount ranges like Space Marines or Orks that are all-male (and to echo others, yes, Orks are coded male) the vast majority of miniatures are still male. Some might not see this as a problem and that's fine, but I think introducing more female representation through models especially can only be a good thing for many reasons, but particularly to make the hobby more inclusive for everyone and less male-centric. I also do honestly find it a bit problematic that two out of the only three female-centric factions in AoS (meaning a faction that has more explicitly female models than male models) are Daughters of Khaine and Slaanesh (the third is Sylvaneth) both of whom are mostly comprised of half-naked female/agender miniatures. Now, there's a lot of that on the male side too - just take a look at the Tzeentch Arcanites range - but generally they are complemented by plenty of male miniatures that cover up too. That's why, as much as I don't care for boob armour, I really appreciate the continued expansion on female Stormcasts. To kind of encapsulate how I feel about this particular issue, imagine that someone comes into a hobby shop, sees all the amazing miniatures and gets sold on the lore for AoS then asks if there's an army with strong rather than token female representation, it's disappointing to think that two of the three armies they would potentially be directed have (half) nakedness as a core design theme - and though the Sisters of Battle aren't half-naked, there's even less choice for female representation on the 40k side! It absolutely turns potential hobbyists away, and it's a real shame at that. Just for clarity, I've no inherent problem with nudity in miniatures, and am a collector of both the Khainite and Slaaneshi ranges; my problem stems from the strongest examples of representation GW has being easily dismissed as playing to the male gaze. Also, I just wanted to add as they've been discussed a fair amount and I think it's an interesting point; Daughters of Khaine aren't actually an all-female faction, just a matriarchal one where most of the miniatures are women and their lore focuses on women. Doomfire Warlocks and the new Khainite Warcry warband comprise the (slim) male model representation for the army, and they too generally expose a fair amount of skin.

That is something I keep thinking of, especially as I'll probably be wanting to use the Lord of Change's auto-dispel on the Spellportals so he can keep moving up and summoning them as necessary. At the very least the to-hit debuff being stacked on my own units is the last thing I'd want as a shooting list! I really want to try the Daemonic Simulacrum but can't quite fit the points for it, otherwise I'd definitely be using that. I'll probably mostly be using the Spellportals for Infernal Gateway and sniping heroes, an average 6 mortal wounds from a single cast is just so strong. I can't imagine running a Lord of Change without a Spellportal for that reason, similar to Nagash.

This is my current list, I really wish I could fit Geminids or a Fluxmaster (to carry the Aura of Mutability) in but I think this is the best I can do with the models I own; Eternal Conflagration Lord of Change (General, Coruscating Flames, Aura of Mutability), The Changeling, The Blue Scribes, Fatemaster (Shroud of Warpflame) 2x10 Pink Horrors, 3x3 Flamers, 1 Exalted Flamer Changehost, Prismatic Palisade, Umbral Spellportal 2000 points on the nose. I've considered switching the Palisade for either Quicksilver Swords or Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws for some extra mortal wound output, but with shooting on the rise I feel the Palisade can be a good defensive tool/movement blocker.

They're very popular in Slaanesh builds too (though they aren't Battleline there unfortunately) such a great unit and one I'm sorely tempted to run. On that note, Ungors are the best Slaanesh battleline

Number one are unquestionably Hearthguard Berzerkers. Supported properly (which is easy, mind) they are easily among the strongest and scariest units in the game. Pink Horrors are comfortably second place even after the nerf.

My point regarding White Dwarf /=/ campaign book is that I don't know of any White Dwarf rules content that has received updates/publication in a GHB or Chapter Approved, with the possible exception of the 40k Slaanesh daemon rules (as they still haven't released an updated Chaos Daemon codex.) There's examples of them being expanded on in future content (i.e. Crimson Fists rules being updated and expanded in the Imperial Fists supplement.) Prove that they're units then, or list a rule that clarifies battalions not printed in the book can't be used. If you can't, I'd say they are legal, simple as that 😛

There's a big difference between rules content posted in a monthly magazine issue and rules content from a campaign book. There's also nothing in the GHB itself indicating that those battalions aren't matched play legal - they aren't from a book that's been replaced, nor is there any rule that dictates a battalion is a unit. As such, I'm firmly in the camp they are still matched play legal (but at TO discretion, like always) until GW officially declares otherwise. To put it simply, the onus is on you to prove they aren't legal rather than the other way around, as there's no rule explicitly preventing their use.

This was my first attempt, comes out to 38 DP (380 points) total. Idea is basically a monstrous steed of Slaanesh with a particularly nasty Herald up top - not designed really for 'power-gaming', but much like you'd expect of a giant steed of Slaanesh, it's super fast and moderately scary. I've considered changing a few things (i.e. the stats for Soultearer) to try to be in line with other Heralds of Slaanesh as much as possible, and made sure to avoid anything that wouldn't fit thematically (i.e. Ethereal is a complete no-go.) Conversion idea is one I saw someone post the other day; a Troglodon with the front arms removed, with a Herald up top. That Warscroll creator tool is really fantastic!

Ignoring Rend -2 and having numerous sources of -1 to-hit can entirely negate the numerical disadvantage of playing an Alarith-themed list depending on your opponent - i.e. Vanguard Raptor/Shootcast lists - or be inconsequential against others - i.e. Plague Monks and Daughters of Khaine. I think it's certainly viable as a meta-buster type list.

My favourite is the Lord of Change, followed very closely by the Keeper of Secrets. I love daemons and birds, so the big bird is pretty much the perfect model for me. The Keeper is just badass. After that, both varieties of Phoenix are ace, and I just love both the Hydra and the Kharibdyss.

When do we think the FAQ/Errata accompanying GHB will drop? Release day (so at some point today) or tomorrow perhaps?