Yoshiya

Thanks I actually have a scheme done for Slyvaneth since I was already collecting them. I'll try and get some pictures up later today after work And I agree picking which city is pretty hard >< thankfully for me it was mostly chosen since I wanted to use my Slyvaneth models but if I was starting from scratch it would have definitely been harder. I think one way to go about it is to think about 2~3 factions you'd like to use and then going and checking which allegiances would let you use them. If you try to include every model you like not only will your list be all over the place but you'll get stuck with the less interesting rules of hammerhal (nothing wrong with that ofc, just means you don't get quite the same sense of uniqueness as the other cities in my opinion). On a side note, who else thinks they need to put an exception for the named characters in for the new Stormcast guy who runs Hammerhal?He's literally the only unit in the game specifically tired to Hammerhal and you can't take him in those armies.

So after much deliberation I have finally come up with lore and an army list for my free city. The Everblossom Groves -2000pts Allegiance: The Living City Realm: Shyish Heroes Lord-Aquilor (General, Legendary Fighter) - 200pts Treelord Ancient (Ethereal Amulet) - 300pts Runelord - 100pts Knight-Azyros - 100pts* Knight-Incantor - 140pts Spell weaver - 100pts* Battleline 20 Dryads - 200pts 20 Glade Guard - 240pts 10 Warriors - 80pts 10 Longbeards - 100pts Other 10 Eternal Guard - 70pts* 10 Eternal Guard - 70pts* 3 Vanguard-Palladors - 200pts Celesta Ballista - 100pts* (* Starts in reserve) The basic idea behind the army is that a grove planted in the Age of Myth by Alarielle in Shyish has grown to have a mixture of races living there. Originally humans lived their too but after being forced to flee through the realmgate that led to the edge of Ghyran at the centre of the forest to escape the Necroquake, all the humans died (or rather were mutated into trees/bugs etc.) In a last ditch effort to save the humans that had guarded her grove during the Age of Chaos, Alarielle made a deal with Sigmar, though what she offered in return is still unknown. As such, all the remaining humans were saved and turned into Stormcast Eternals who now fight alongside their friends to reclaim the forest from the forces of dead that now claim them. As such, I decided to avoid any human units and built a core out of the other races. I think 20 Dryads is enough to keep their bonus, and 20 Glade Guard should pack a punch on the turn they use their -3 rend ability. The Duardin were split into a unit of warriors and longbeards for point reasons. For heroes I wanted to have a lot of anti-magic as I feel that if we let armies freely use it them our woods will turn against us. Ofc I will have to be careful myself with three wizards but none of their spells are super important so if it's too risky I can just skip my own magic phase. The Lord-Aquilor is general because I felt putting too many eggs into the Treelord would be bad since he is already a priority target as the only source of woods. Legendary Fighter is to make him a character killer. Relic on Treelord is for survivability. Knight-Azyros is there because the buff he provides affects everyone and he is a source of mortal wounds. Eternal Guard are there to protect woods, being very hard to shift I forests with Spell weaver for risky healing. Ballista is pretty self explanatory whilst Palladors are because I love the models and I think the redeployment options will make the opponent have to think about more than just board edges and trees. Overall I think the list is quite tanky with a medium punch with a surprising amount of rend when needed. Weaknesses would be a lack of reliable mortal wounds and magic potentially backfiring. Alternatives I'm considering include dropping the Incantor and Warriors in favour of another Ballista/Waywatcher and a 20 man Longbeards unit (more buff coverage and tankier) or dropping the Longbeard for a 20 man Warriors squad and an endless spell (Swords for more mortals, Shackles for more board control or Maelstrom for even more anti-magic).

Thanks, took me some time to go through it all but I think it's important with the Free Cities to really understand the role all the different units have. Being mixed they often have a lot of overlap unlike a normal army and small differences can quickly add up. That's a good point about the Warriors actually. My main attraction to the Freeguild was the fact that they get better saves in combat without relying on cover whilst also being able to charge (so I can be more aggressive with them). The rend on warriors is very tempting though and I do like the models a bit more. As for the rest of the army my current fixed choices are a Treelord Ancient (mandatory in my mind) and a Branchwraith (for summoning more chaff). That also allows me to borrow from the Slyvaneth collection that inspired the list. In addition a Knight-Azyros is pretty much fixed because I can get it where I want its buff easily. After that I'm looking at a Lord-Aquilor and a group of Vanguard-Palladors. I think it's important to keep your opponent on your toes, punishing any mistakes by deploying units to capitalise on them with a Living City. As such, the Palladors ability to redeploy every turn with a Aquilor and a once a turn long move allows me to get hard hitters where they are needed. To that end I'm also looking at Vanguard-Raptors w/ Hurricane Crossbow which get 21 shots on deployment with 18" range and can be covered by Aetherwings as chaff barriers. Combined with a Knight-Vexillor who can give them a once per game redeploy I see them as a good option to take out support heroes or enemy chaff. Alternatives would be Waywatcher for similar damage output at a lower cost or Sisters of the Watch for higher damage and more models at a higher cost. Regarding Irondrakes, I think whilst they're undeniably a good option they don't personally fit the image I have for the army in my mind. A guy in large armour with a huge gun doesn't scream 'stealth ambusher' in my mind nor do I think gunpowder and trees go well together. The Ballista on the other hand is a good option and I'm thinking of taking one to deepstrike and maybe redeploy with a Vexillor. I'm mostly worried about getting some heavy hitters so the Ballista would help with that too. As a expert on all things duardin I don't suppose you could tell me if Longbeards/Ironbreakers are on 25mm Misfire? If so there is just enough space to put them right on the edge of a wyldwood and put a ranged unit directly behind them, giving me a tough shooting encampment.

So I've been thinking of expanding my Slyvaneth army into a Living City one once I finish up with my Idoneth and I've been having a hard time putting together a list I like. As soon as I put in the things I wanted I had way too little points for battleline to support them >< As such, I've decided to take the opposite approach and start with battleline and fill in the rest. Upon doing so however, I encountered a different problem: all the Living City battleline seems pretty good. Given my lack of experience playing anything but Dryads, I decided to do a breakdown of each of the battleline options and how they fit into the army and I thought I'd share my opinions here both to help others and to get some input from some more experienced players. I'd like to make a few disclaimers first however. Firstly note that all these are merely my opinions and almost entirely theory crafting. I also haven't had time to go through every single potential synergy they all get so I may be missing some strong options here. I will likely do a separate post on the stand out hero choices sometime where I go into their potential synergies. Secondly, I'm assuming that a Treelord Ancient will be taken in all lists as they are the sole source of wyldwoods needed for the allegiance ability. Lastly, I'm assuming a relatively mixed force to take advantage of all the options available. Obviously the more you focus on one faction the better those factions units get as they gain built in synergies. Liberators The most well rounded option coming in with a good save, ok damage output (helped by the option of a special weapon), ok move and good bravery. Liberators also fall in the middle of the points range making them affordable. Unfortunately they suffer from jack-of-all-trades-ism and ultimately don't stand out particular much, especially since their low model count makes them less suitable for objective camping. On the plus side, that low model count make them easy to place using the Living City ability and there is potential for a sneaky objective steal in the enemy backfield if they are not careful. I think both weapon options are viable i would definitely recommend shields as they are not good enough in combat to go all in with double weapons. Liberators are a solid option for their price but don't expect them to be going above and beyond in the majority of cases. Freeguild Guard The joint cheapest option and a versatile pick for the price. They come with more models than Liberators making them better for objective camping although the quality per model is significantly lower. The best loadouts in my opinion are swords with shields. As a core of the army the swords are good for the extra save in combat which makes them better as an anvil. The role of halberds as a rend option is better done by the Dispossed Warriors for the same price and Living City had too many good shooting options to make militia weapons worth it. Unfortunately the incentive to take large units works somewhat against them in a Living City army as it makes them hard to place on the board, however they work well as an anchor that starts on the board in larger units. For particularly large units I would consider looking at spears for the extra range. One option would be to drop a small unit the edge of a wyldwood with swords to get a 3+ reroll 1s in combat whilst preventing enemies from getting within 9" of the other side of the wyldwood to deny your deepstrike, though don't expect this unit to last with their horrible bravery. However they are used, Freeguild Guard are cheap so you can be comfortable knowing that even if they don't shine every game they haven't impacted your overall list too much. Dispossed Warriors Coming in the same cost as the Freeguild Guard, Dispossessed Warriors sacrifice movement and versitility for better combat potential and tankiness. With decent bravery and the option to reduce battleshock losses by half, these guys are your cheap anvil. Whilst at first glance their save doesn't seem impressive, they can choose to forgo running and charging to get rerolls on all saves, which coupled with cover gives them a rerollable 4+. In addition to this they get to take great weapons putting the whole unit at -1 rend without having to sacrifice defence like the Freeguild Guard. This can be increased to -2 rend with a Runelord making these your cheapest anti-skid choice. They have no horde bonuses as well, meaning you can take minimum sized units knowing that they will be performing at maximum potential. The latter allows them to be deployed easily using the Living city ability which is important for overcoming their low movement. This means they can perform the same wyldwood roadblock role mentioned above albeit with 4+ rerolls instead of 3+ reroll 1s without having to be in combat (whilst hitting back harder) for the same price. As above with the From Guard, however you plan on using them, the cheapness of Warriors means that they will likely always be pulling their weight somehow, though they are best taken as small deepstriking units due to their low movement. Longbeards Take a Warrior, stick him in some better armour, make him a bit bravery and you have yourself a Longbeard (of course the bravery comes from the knowledge that no one else will have as great a beard as you). Longbeards cost the same as Liberators whilst offering more tankiness, more models and rend at the cost of movement and ease of placement. Longbeards are the hardest to shift out of the options available, getting a 3+ rerollable in cover so long as they didn't run or charge. This makes them one of the best options in the army for wyldwood defending, beaten only by their tougher, more expensive Ironbreaker brothers in pure defence, and Eternal Guard who get 3+ reroll 1s and 2s at a very cheap price (albeit losing rend and the ability to move at all on the process). Given that both of these units aren't battleline, Longbeards offer a good choice if you want to keep battleline costs down. Longbeards only get better in an army with more Dispossessed, offering force multiplier buffs and the potential to get -2 rend with support from a Runelord. Given their slow movement however, Longbeards are a choice best left off the board to start, favouring smaller units as well as support from anchor units that can start the game on the board. Dryads The last of the dedicated close combat battleline and a very good one. Dryads are the fastest option having a base 7" move that allows them to quickly get across the board without having to use the allegiance ability. And despite this, they arent slouches offensively or defensively getting 2 attacks a piece at 2" meaning they have the highest volume of attacks at Freeguild Guard sword quality and a 4+ save as long as their is 12+ models alive. Unlike other units, I feel like the speed of Dryads, as well as the fact it isn't instantly lost and the 2" range on their attacks, make this bonus well worth pursuing without worrying about fitting on whilst deploying. Dryads also stand out as the only battleline to not be affected by wyldwoods as well as having natural synergy with the practically mandatory Treelord Ancient. The former makes them good defenders of your wyldwoods when fighting magic focused armies, especially if coupled with Sisters of Thorn which allows them to get 3+ reroll 1s reflect mortal wounds on 4+. Overall I think Dryads are a great, affordable pick for a Living City army and would recommend at least one unit of 20 in most armies to act as a fast moving high model count objective stealer and screening unit that starts on the board. (Also worth noting that Dryads can be summoned in units of 10 from wyldwoods by a Branchwraith so youll probably want the models anyway. Freeguild Crossbowmen Coming in at the same price as all the Freeguild ranged options, I see Crossbowmen as the most general purpose of the 3 options. Crossbowmen have ok shooting that shines when taken in large units to double their number of shots, especially with their potential rend on 6s. I've mentioned a lot about large unit sizes but I think one advantage of Crossbowmen here is that their 20" range means they dont necessarily need to deepstrike to have an impact. I personally see Crossbowmen as a mid to backfield camper option that starts on the board and sits still once it's reached its objective, using its ability to shoot when charged to scare weaker units from engaging it. As with all the ranged units support is key as they share horrible saves and bravery meaning they will quickly fall to enemy attention I think crossbowmen are the choice to take if you're looking for massed fire in a semi-mobile block. One thing to note here that is true of all the shooting battleline is that the new rules for wyldwoods prevent them from shooting at units more than 1" through the woods. As such, its important to think carefully where to place your woods so as to not prevent your own units from shooting. Freeguild Archers Whereas Crossbowmen want to be taken in large units, I believe Archers are the go to option for affordable small units. They still get to reroll 1s no matter unit size making smaller units shoot better than Crossbowmen and the bonus from larger units is smaller. Archers are better started on the board to take advantage of their free movement at the beginning of the game to allow you to quickly gain board control. Whereas Crossbowmen advance behind the army to sit on captured objectives, I see Archers moving ahead quickly to take midfield objectives, peppering the enemy with low damage shots and then getting relieved by tougher units that move up behind. Given this, I think Archers are the choice for a more mobile force that wants some limited fire support or for when you have a few spare points left to go on a small ranged unit. Also worth noting is that Archers have the best close combat of the ranged battleline, though you still shouldn't expect anything from them. Freeguild Handgunners In my opinion Freeguild Handgunners are a somewhat unfluffy yet powerful choice in a Living City army. Whilst having a low to hit, Handgunners can easily improve this by not moving and taking large numbers, getting them quickly up to a 3+ to hit with better wound and rend than the other options. In addition they have take a special weapon for the leader to give more damage potential. Both options are good in my opinion as Living City allows you to bypass the short range on the repeater handgun. The primary weakness of the handgunners is their slightly shorter range and lack of mobility, meaning the are normally going to be sitting on the backfield. However, the Living City allows for this units to be place where they are needed, and the new rules meaning that units that are deployed do not count as having moved allow them to immediately shoot with greater accuracy. I personally think Handgunners are the best ranged option mechanically due to the deployment options the Living City gives them, however, as mentioned, I see them as the least fluffy option so it is up to personal opinion if you want to field them. Glade Guard The last option and in my opinion the hardest to rate. At base level they are more expensive Crossbowmen without the chance for rend or bonus shooting in larger units, in return for bonuses to hit in large numbers. Glade Guard are the bravest and fastest of the shooting options giving them value as frontline skirmishers and midfield objective stealers. The true thing that separates them and makes them worth more is the once per game ability to shoot at -3 rend. This gives them the potential to put the hurt in larger monsters (though things like stardrakes still aren't worth your time shooting) and characters, or to help weaken an elite unit, something I feel the other battleline options besides maybe Handgunners and Dispossessed struggle with. Unfortunately this ability only works once and given their higher cost it gets pricey if you take them in the numbers needed for it to really be a game changer. I personally think glade guard would be best played as more mobile archers, making using the Living City ability to put them near a tough unit to get a few shots and then using their higher movement to run away. I personally see myself needing to experiment with them before making a proper verdict however due to their similarities to other options. Conclusion As mentioned in the intro I think that Living City had access to a very good battleline selection. I'm really interested to see what other people think. Personally I'm leaning towards one unit of 10 Warriors a unit of 20 Dryads, a unit of 20 Freeguild Guard w/ swords, and some minimum sized Archers/Glade Guard for a mobile force with a bit of defence thrown in.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the rumour has a clearly lighter and clearly darker section. Given that slaanesh is currently held in the area between hysh and ulgu it could be the case that the demons have been affected by the mixed light/shadow magic that area holding slaanesh and this is reflected in their appearance. I think it would be pretty cool to have demons consisting of two separate design elements blended together and would fit slaanesh excessive designs.

I really wish that cp and especially artefacts weren't attached to battalions. Armies like deepkin have access to something like 80-90 artefacts including malign sorcery and yet can only take one normally meaning the same things like cloud of midnight are being used in every list. I think there is so much potential to open up the game to customisation etc if they would just let us take artefacts for points (first is free, second costs 20 points, third costs 30 points etc.). Would give get more ways to fill points out as well especially for armies without wizards to take Endless spells with. That could really help justify the eidolons too. At 400pts with no artefact (normally better choices to take first one) the AoStorm is ok but at 420pts with an artefact like ghyran strike or sword of judgement he starts getting pretty scary.

I think Reavers issue is that there is too many point and click style range units in the game that don't encourage people to think too hard about supporting fire unless it's very strong. Taken in isolation Reavers are a 10 man squad for 140pts with decent shooting that have great mobility to take advantage of their special fire mode. They also don't have to be as afraid of small units that tie them up in the late game (when they get to their objective) because on turn three they strike first meaning the unit tying them up can't be too weak and on turn 4 they just run away and unleash fire on them. All whilst not having to worry about return fire as they can't be targeted so long as their super mobile tanky eel friends can run around to absorb fire. That said I don't think they are amazing I just really don't think they are bad and I think I one buff away from being overbearing. As they are they are designed to be taken in small groups to support a combined arms force (in my opinion).

Yea, the wording is exactly the same as pretty much every other unit in the game. Either swarm OR flies. If that allowed you to take both then you'd see people running around with kurnoth hunters shooting arrows from their scythes that have swords attached to the bottom.

Not OP but I did a very similar conversion for the head to create something between a generic king and volturnous so I could use him as both. It was an incredibly easy swap, the only real changes I had to do was to slightly file down the neck part on the main body as it sticks up slightly which creates a gap.

Just a heads up, the idoneth points in the ghb are wrong and you should instead use the ones in the battletome (in the idoneth faq). That makes the cheapest 6 eel/soulscryer ally block 380pts if you use the defensive eels and you can't fit 6 morsarr eels and a scryer in as that's 420pts. The thralls group would be the same cost as the defensive eels group. (For reference; Soulscryer - 100pts Ishalean guard - 140pts per 3 Morsarr guard - 160pts per 3 Thralls - 140pts per 10)

I don't think the release of slaanesh necessarily means the legions idea needs to go. Slaanesh could be released but those pretenders that took his place could continue to act like gods. Doesn't feel very slaaneshi to give up worshippers, even to your god. The seekers could act as the true followers of slaanesh who band against the pretenders to try and bring them back to proper slaanesh approved orgies, and everyone else could just be running around delighting in the sensory feast that occurs when two slaaneshi factions decide out to out do one another.

Wow, that steam tank conversion is amazing. When I first saw the idea I pictured it looking terrible but you've done a great job making it look like it's fits (in a crazy mad scientist kind of way) Also, I may not be the best person to weigh in this having never seen an ironweld model in real life before (I'm sorry ><) but in my mind artillery belongs on round bases. More than anything else in the game I imagine them wheeling around in order to aim and putting them on a oval base removes the space they have to turn.

So my proposed army goes up by 140pts... Great, time for a complete rethink. Good thing I didnt have the money to buy it all at once >< Edit: thinking on it more this is way more than a simple blunder from a new players perspective. If you were told that the ghb had the points you need and had no knowledge of errata (common for new players I think) you could very easily plan and buy an illegal army. Most players will be leniant in that situation but if they ever decide to play more seriously it could really come back to bite them. Not a great introduction to the game.

Loving the army, seems we had the same idea for the eels ? May have to steal some ideas for how to do the tails on my king, that fade out looks really good.

Idoneth is in exactly the same position and they were made for the new edition too. Effectively only one command trait in the whole army (high king version just targets more units) and the king has to be the general. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that kind of wording is the norm from here on out. Just seems so weird to me to bring in the new CP system and then block the new armies from being able to properly play with it. Edit: thinking about it more, the idoneth one is even more ridiculous as you can only use it during high tide (ie. Turn three). That means that unless you use the generic ones they literally have to just pile up points till turn three. Will be interesting to see if the stormcast command abilities are limited in the same way and if they revisit any old warscrolls and bring them in line with nighthaunt and the other newer armies.

I considered fuethan but I'm not sure if I like losing the ability to retreat and charge. The list doesn't have a huge number of units so I like the tactical flexibility that comes from being able to pull out of tar pits and attack units on objectives. Especially with the 14" fly move that means I can go over my opponent onto their objectives. That said, if the eels do as much work as you say they do it's definitely worth a consideration.

Yea, I don't think she's bad at all and I had some decent success with her even before the free summoning. I think magically outside of the three casts she suffers a bit from being designed in a period where casting bonuses seemed pretty rare. Nowadays it seems every new wizard has at least one way to get a casting bonus and thematically it creates a gap where you have relatively minor wizards outcasting a goddess who is supposed to be so strong she created an entire race with her life magic.

I really hope they do. I want slyvaneth to feel a bit stronger in the magic game and now there is precedent of faction specific endless spells if like to see slyvaneth magic get a rework. I mean it still seems ridiculous to me that alarielle gets no bonuses to cast despite being a goddess of life magic but the new nighthaunt wizard gets +3 for putting out a candle...

Since the previous thread got locked just after I posted I'll post again here (this time with a bonus WIP picture!) Currently working on a 2k deepkin list that Id like some feedback on as I haven't been able to play throughout pretty much the whole GHB2017 period. 2k list: King (general) (reroll run and charges, cloud of midnight/potion of frenzy) - 240pts AoSea (steed of tides) - 420pts Tidecaster (either coral ring or shells of prophecy, undecided spell) - 100pts Soulscryer - 80pts 3x ishalean - 140pts 3x ishalean - 140pts 3x ishalean - 140pts 9x morsarr - 420pts Allopex - 140pts Royal Council - 60pts Chronomatic Cogs - 60pts 60 spare points for spells (bwv and swords/maelstrom/chains?) The general idea of the army is to alpha strike turn 1/delay and then all charge turn 2. The soulscryer would take the morsarr and allopex off with him to deploy on the charge turn whilst the AoSea would teleport the king to get it all with charge range (all with rerolls assuming the sharks shooting hurts something). Either the tidecaster or the AoSea would cast cogs and put it to +2" move and charge helping the ishalean move up to maybe charge too and helping everything make their charges (morsarr will be at +5" with the soulscryer buff for an effective 4" rerollable charge). Given the importance of the cogs I've decided to give the tidecaster something to help ensure the cast. AoSea will move up and act as support whilst the tidecaster sits back blasting from a distance. The battalion is mostly for the bonus relic and to reduce drops a bit so could be removed if you think it's useless and maybe pick up some allied dok fliers alongside the spare 60pts. As for enclave I see the options as either; - Ionrach - king loses rerolls but the spells are more likely to go off. No allies means the only benefit is magic. - Dhom hain - general all round bonuses, lets the army spread out without relying on king for rerolls and helps to take out enemy monsters - briomdar - allows the soulscryer to take the king with him and let's them deploy more spread out when they do arrive meaning they can attack over a larger area. AoSea can then use steed to teleport himself up for support. Other effect is mostly useless but might allow some positioning tricks with the tidecaster and soulscryer. I'd like the army to be strong but not overturned. Unfortunately it seems like all eel armies might be too strong against some forces but I'm not a fan of the narmati and only picked up idoneth because I could avoid them with battleline eels. I would be willing to drop some eels and getting another allopex if that would make the list more fun to play against (maybe reducing morsarr from 9 to 6?)