Best in Alliance - Shooting

[Dave Fraser]

I've been thinking about how to go about building a truly cross faction Order army for a while and I figured it might actually make for some good discussion on here.  My intent is to basically pick assorted functions which you would typically see in a fairly normal balanced army and then go into my thoughts on which of the factions can provide the best units to fulfil that function in a truly diverse Order army. 

First up I have begun by looking at the wonderful world of shooting units (ignoring WMs/Monsters etc, this is basically about the plebs with bows/guns etc) because I think people will start to learn how to counter the Stormcast teleport threat soon enough, we’re getting people like Bryan Carmichael posting up blogs on what to do and people just getting more games.  As such I think the ability to (and this is probably from some podcast or another) “reach out and touch people” particularly removing key synergy heroes/summoners etc. is going to become another important string to the bows (punnage ftw) of armies.

In  the absence of dropping a filthy combat unit on someone’s head I think more order players will start to look for the most efficient shooting they can find.  And for this I struggle to look beyond the humble:

 

Duardin Quarellers.

 Have a look at those stats: 20”,1,4+,4+,-,1 and it’s not overly inspiring by itself. But now build a unit of 30 of them.  Shoot twice if no enemy within 3”, note that unlike empire xbows there is no movement restriction here, so you’ve an effective range increase of 4” right there.

 

Next lets look at the buff units (assuming legacy are in play this is what really makes it for me):

• Grimm Burloksson - +6” range to 1 unit.  Ok so I now just 30” threat range xbows back.

 

Looking at the non-legacy options:

• Rune Lord – 2+ prayer abilty for -1 rend and now I’m cracking armour too.
• Warden King command ability +1 to wound on target unit (only 16” range so it’s limited plus he really needs to be your general or you need longbeards so it’s not the best option)
• Hurricanum buff of +1 to hit is all order units

 

All in that is now a reasonably effective shooting phase.  If you just take the 30 xbows and Grimm that’s 25 pools, so not massively cheap but effective and a long threat range unit which can just sit back on an objective and be efficient.

 

But now lets look to their other stats and abilities:

• Combat attacks 1, 4+,4+,- and this is worth noting they fight as well in combat as they shoot, that is virtually unheard of for shooting troops, most drop to either 5’s to hit or 5’s to wound, so compared to a base dwarf warrior they’re basically the same, ok nowhere near as good as a dedicated combat unit but they aren’t utter junk.

• Save 5+ – meh, but then check out Duardin Bucklers, if you’ve not Run or Charged you get rerolls in combat. It’s amazing how often those rerolls pay off.

• Banner – either 5++ vs magic spells or ½ battleshock casualties, both are useful, other abilities in your army will likely influence which you favour.

 

For these reasons I think Duardin Quarellers are up there as the best shooting options in an order army for their points cost.

Alternatives:

• Judicators – 24”,1,3+,3+,-1 so the shots are all round better but far less of them and at 5 for 8pools I think the Duardin do it as well for less

• Bretonnian Peasant Bowmen – 20,1,5+,4+,- and 20 put out 80 shots but only once per game, reroll 1’s to wound is nice too but it’s not consistent over the game and they hit worse and cost is 10 for 8 pools, again I give it to the Quarellers.

• Glade Guard – 20”, 1, 4+, 4+, -and +1 to hit for 20+ models and a 1 time -3 rend which can be really useful, these being 10 for 6 pools makes them a strong contender.

• FreeGuild Crossbowmen – 20”,1,4+,4+,-, rend on 6’s to wound, stand and shoot, double shots if doesn’t move.  Broadly similar but doesn’t have access to range & rend buffs and can’t move and shoot double so effective range is shorter.  Stand and shoot is nice but for me doesn’t offset. 10 for 6 pools.

• Sisters of the Watch – 18”,1,3+,3+,- have +1 to wound vs chaos and stand and shoot reaction, double shots if don’t move. 5 for 6 pools.  These guys are also great like the judicators but the pool cost makes them not so appealing to me.

All good units in their own right but I think that overall for me the dwarf quarellers have the balance of output for cost plus reasonable combat & survivability that I pick them over the rest.

What are your thoughts?

[HobbyHammer]

Bretonnian Peasants with a Paladin, Wildform BattleWizard and Hurricanum though nearby though... and having a Freeguild General on Griffon as your General with his command ability as it is for Free People

Unit of 20 is now 1, 2+ to hit, 3+ to wound retooling 1's and once per game doing 80 shots with these stats. 
Save wise only 6+, but put Mystic Shield and in terrain this is 4+ and put Blessing of the Lady 6+ Ward too. Relic Banner also unbinds 1 spell as if a wizard.

[Starlight]

Not being familiar with all of the comp systems out there, can you please specify which system you are referring to with your "points" and "pools"? There are a few out there after all, and which one is popular in your area might not correlate with which one is popular elsewhere

I'd be partial to the Sisters of the Watch myself (but then again I'm partial to all aelfs), but the way you depict them it sounds like they may be less attractive in your comp system.

Oh, and great post - looking forward to more such comparisons

[amysrevenge]

I like Irondrakes, but I'm an idiot.  The short range really limits what they can do, and their pool cost is very high.

[Veterannoob]

That's a nice breakdown. I also like @amysrevenge am partial to irondrakes but I'd pass on any Fyreslayer shooting unless vs. a Monster list. Even then...

Let us know how the All-Star team does.

[Mikosan]

I think you nailed it with the quarellers, played two games vs. legacy duardin and they made a mess of my stormcast.  Pretty sure it was 30 of them too.

[PJetski]

I am surprised nobody mentioned Chameleon Skninks yet

Who needs range when you have a global teleport skill? 

[Mikosan]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

I am surprised nobody mentioned Chameleon Skninks yet

Who needs range when you have a global teleport skill? 

Lol! Played against them twice as well, must have blocked the experience from my memory banks, hahaha  They made swift work of Orion, double turn, double teleport, double the madness...

[Ansuz]

With my Fyreslayers I use 10 Auric Hearthguards + 1 Runesmiter on foot. I love my "deep striking" 20 3+,3+,-1 shots! It's great to have such a card up your sleeve in a so direct combat army like the Fyreslayers.

[Avian]

Don't forget Wayfinder, his Hail of Doom shooting attack is almost a delete button for most characters/lords/wizards who aren't monsters.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marc Wilson]

Turn those Quarellers into a deep strike unit by bringing Bugman.

As @HobbyKiller discussed on a recent Heelhammer SAWC - Prosectors with Stormcall Javelins output more damage than Judicators - he's right.

[Snoe]

What about darkshards? Don't know about synergies in dark aelfs but they have 2 attacks each.

[Nico]

Darkshards are pretty pants, no synergies and a really poor range.

[jobume]

On 2016-05-13 at 5:46 PM, HobbyHammer said:

Bretonnian Peasants with a Paladin, Wildform BattleWizard and Hurricanum though nearby though... and having a Freeguild General on Griffon as your General with his command ability as it is for Free People

Unit of 20 is now 1, 2+ to hit, 3+ to wound retooling 1's and once per game doing 80 shots with these stats. 
Save wise only 6+, but put Mystic Shield and in terrain this is 4+ and put Blessing of the Lady 6+ Ward too. Relic Banner also unbinds 1 spell as if a wizard.

The Wildform "+1 to wound" only applies in the combat phase, so the bowmen would be 2+,4+. Still very scary. I think that the Freeguild crossbowmen are pretty good thanks to the Freeguild General's "Hold the line"-ability. It gives +1 to hit and +1 to wound. Combined with either the Hurricanum or the legacy "State troop"- formation and the crossbowmen are firing double shots hitting at 2+ and wounding at 3+, with 1/3 of the wounds resolved at rend -1.