bsharitt Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, stato said: Like every answer, it depends on the rest of your list and how you like to play. The obvious power from them is a unit of 9 (or 12) buffed and using grapnels to get places opponents dont expect or getting close enough to have a very easy charge. Risks with that are not getting a Khemist buff the next turn (as your on the other side of the board) and your nice powerful unit in the middle of the opponents force. So you need to still be tactical with them, and as such different builds and ways to use them can still be viable if they match your play style preference. I suppose part of the crux of it will be to figure out what my play style is. I bought up the KO stuff one release at a time as it came out(minus all the heroes and the Ironclad and three Arkanaut companies for battle line) which sort of led to a less than fulfilling gameplay as my first AoS army(i.e. they didn't win much) and I've been more focused on my death since GHB2017 came out. Right now the biggest problem I'm trying to solve is them being such garbage in combat, yet not really having super elite shooting to make up for it, hence the Endrinrigger focus. Being a player who plays the chapter/subfaction my army is painted as, I'll probably keep playing Zilfin(picked the color scheme even before I read the book), so I I might continues to rely on my boats for mobility. Doing the math on how bad they have to get hit before battle shock becomes an issue, I'm seeing fewer downsides to a unit of 9, so maybe I'll build one as grapnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 43 minutes ago, bsharitt said: I'm going to be revisiting my KOs soon and I'll be picking up two boxes of endrinriggers today to add to the one unit I already have that is all base saw armament. Two questions: first, do I want to run multiple small units or one big unit of 9 or a 6 and 3? I could see 9 being able to wreck quite a bit and would allow an aetherkhemist to buff more at a time. I just wonder if it's concentrating all my killing power too much, plus the larger units and potentially more susceptible to battle shock. Second question, is the grapnel launcher worth it. In a three man unit the answer would seem to be no, and 6 man I'm still leaning more towards no, but if I go for the 9 man does the cost of giving up a saw and shooting attack for a 4 up extra move get diluted enough to be worth it? They're already moving 12 inches, so I'm having a hard time buying into the value of them, especially if they're going to be in a deep strinking boat anyway. Where they would probably get most use is in games where the objectives show up randomly, then I could see where they could pay for themselves. It's one of the most important tools you have in your arsenal, and you'll want 3 Grapnel Launchers in a unit of 9 to just about guarantee it goes off (87% chance if I recall). The ability to deploy 3" off a ship, move 12", then 24" with grapnel and charge another 12" is INSANITY. This is how I win games in turn 1/2. The units power is usually depleted by then, but by then it doesn't matter as they've done their job. If they aren't dead, then they are grabbing objectives...any objective you basically want with their sort of movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsharitt Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, Dez said: It's one of the most important tools you have in your arsenal, and you'll want 3 Grapnel Launchers in a unit of 9 to just about guarantee it goes off (87% chance if I recall). The ability to deploy 3" off a ship, move 12", then 24" with grapnel and charge another 12" is INSANITY. This is how I win games in turn 1/2. The units power is usually depleted by then, but by then it doesn't matter as they've done their job. If they aren't dead, then they are grabbing objectives...any objective you basically want with their sort of movement Spending 120 points on the move ability just seems really high to me, but then I guess people spend more on warscroll battalions that do less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 48 minutes ago, bsharitt said: Spending 120 points on the move ability just seems really high to me, but then I guess people spend more on warscroll battalions that do less. Worth. Every. Point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinin Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Hi All, Took KO to an event this weekend. It was just 4 players and three games. My KO went 1-2. Needed either 15 minutes more or one turn roll to go my way and I would have won it all. My list was Mhornar Khemist Privateers, earbuster, Frigate, 2 units of Company with Sky hooks, 6 Riggers with 1 grapnel and 3 Wardens pike, volley, drill. Game 1 was vs DOK Starstrike 30 witches, shrine, hag, 10 snake riders and 2x5 winged deepstriking elves. All objectives dropped to my right and his witches were on my left, they tied up my entire army preventing me from getting to objectives. I killed his shrine and hag by turn two but this pushed me up enough to get caught. I killed everything but the snakes and time was called. I lost nothing by company cutters. Major Loss 720 kill points The image was from turn 3 just before he tied up my whole army with the witches. I probably should have charged with the riggers to hit the end of them before they got in. I often feel I am too aggressive and was determined to not get my self into trouble. From this point he charged and killed a few company. I killed a bunch of witches and then shot them all off during my turn. The riggers grappled next turn to kill the birds way in the back. The frigate killed the front birds and I shot off a few snakes. Time was called. Game 2 was vs Nurgle 3 places of power 10 Blight Kings, 5 blight kings, 2 drones 2 characters. I really messed up. I missed that they included this from GHB1 and my ship wouldn't count. I kept the Khemist in the ship trying to get a double turn to deploy him near an objective. Never got it. I killed both characters and the unit of 5 blight kings. He managed to score 5 points before I could kill the second character. Major Loss 440 kill points This was turn two, I killed the blight kings and character, eventually, with the riggers. But the 10 kings chased the frigate around preventing me from dropping the Khemist. Game 3 was vs Sylvaneth, Battle for the pass TLA oak, gnarled, Wych, 10 Dryads, 5 Revs, 3 Scyths, 3 Bows. I went first and grappled the TLA and killed him. It was all over at that point as my firepower tabled him by turn 4 and I have a commanding lead in points Major win 1000 kill points I came in 3 out of 4, not great, but I had a blast. My opponents were mostly people I play against regularly and they are all great. Thoughts: I usually play Ziflin, Mhornar is way more consistent. I found with Ziflin if I rolled well turn 1 I would win, if not I lost by turn 3. It wasn't fun for either of us. With Mhornar all the games were really close even the Nurgle game I would have won if I could have gotten the Khemist out of the ship, with a double turn. My opponentsad seemed to like playing more than they do against the zilfin list. I am eager to see what they do with AOS 2.0 and how it affects my armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 I really love Mhornar, both in fluff and how it works. I feel like it should be the top Barak in terms of competetive play, but it's hard to argue with Zilfin :) I feel like where Zilfin got all it's ducks in a row, there is just the smallest bits missing to make Mhornar really great. Those Aethersperic Endrins are good! I played in an event with Mhornar too, and came away the winner though there were only 6 of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinin Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 After thinking about it. I forgot the hero phase pile in the entire day. And I should have used the company as more of a road block. I could have charged the blight kings with them and tied them up for the turn I needed to dump the chemist on the objective. Arghhhh! I always forget my abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 On 5/17/2018 at 6:42 AM, mikethefish said: There is no real evidence of this. Perhaps the Faction Focus for KO will be more enlightening. Everything previewed has either not effected KO, been a direct nerf, or an indirect nerf. The most recent hero shooting change has me rolling my eyes since I play against a maggotkin player a lot and her still trivially snipes characters anywhere on the board. Good job GW for making it harder for KO to kill characters, but ignoring pretty much any spell casting army. A lot of focus is going into magic, and KO have none of that, which is going to be an indirect nerf unless you break out Stormcast mages. The last army I want to feel forced to ally with is stormcast. On 5/17/2018 at 10:58 PM, Dez said: Oh I don't think Arkanaut Company are overpriced...I'm hoping they stay the same. Things I am putting on my Tin Foil Hat because we might see: Reduction in Skyvessel cost Changes to hitching (it's just too good, don't you think? I mean I don't want it to but...) Battalion price reductions across the board Changes to Navigators and Endrineers so they are more useful in a system where small fast spoiler units can shut down arkanauts shooting, they will be overpriced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkanaut Admiral Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I groaned a little when I saw Look Out Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 It will be interesting to see how KO is changed in second edition. I will agree that overall with the changes we have seen so far Ko looks like it might struggle. That said we have only really seen the changes to one phase so far. What would you like to see in terms of changes for KO in the new edition? The obvious choice is a variety of points changes. The gunhauler could do with being MUCH cheaper, and a battleline if option for thunderers would be nice alongside a points drop for them. If the rumours about combat are true, their retreat ablility will become more useful. I really hope the range of unbinds get increased in AOS 2. If so an anti magic Barak Nar list might be good. If the rules about shooting in combat turn out to be true , a retreat and shoot ability could be very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 DON'T PANIC!!! They Skyships aren't falling!!! People do this every time, and I get it we put a lot of work and love into our armies....but we haven't seen everything yet. It's cool to theorize, as Chikout does above. 9 hours ago, stratigo said: in a system where small fast spoiler units can shut down arkanauts shooting, they will be overpriced. In a unit of 10, they have to chew through 7 bodies. In a unit of 20 it's 14, and in a unit of 30 that's 21 bodies before your real shooting effectiveness (Light Skyhooks) sees a decline. I can see with the info we have so far that using Thunderers aggressively could pay off loaded up with more than Aethershot Rifles due to the limited range of their other weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Dont forget folks, Aarkanauts get +1 to hit Heros, so we have already neutered 'look out sir'. Equally, the cheap units of 10 people will be using as screens for Heros will either be a waste of points on a unit that doesnt threaten us, or be so weak we can probably shoot it off first and then the Hero with a single round of Skyhooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balloon Dwarf Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 9 hours ago, stato said: Dont forget folks, Aarkanauts get +1 to hit Heros, so we have already neutered 'look out sir'. Equally, the cheap units of 10 people will be using as screens for Heros will either be a waste of points on a unit that doesnt threaten us, or be so weak we can probably shoot it off first and then the Hero with a single round of Skyhooks. I think there's a lot of doommongering going about. I'm waiting to see what our faction focus says (I've been frantically checking it every day hoping it's us) and then I'll decide accordingly. I don't think it's going to completely destroy our ability to play, I think we'll end up shaking up our tactics. Besides, we still have awesome models. It would be nice if the Gunhauler got a points drop though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 23 hours ago, stratigo said: Everything previewed has either not effected KO, been a direct nerf, or an indirect nerf. The most recent hero shooting change has me rolling my eyes since I play against a maggotkin player a lot and her still trivially snipes characters anywhere on the board. Good job GW for making it harder for KO to kill characters, but ignoring pretty much any spell casting army. A lot of focus is going into magic, and KO have none of that, which is going to be an indirect nerf unless you break out Stormcast mages. The last army I want to feel forced to ally with is stormcast. in a system where small fast spoiler units can shut down arkanauts shooting, they will be overpriced. I won't argue with most of that, because what you said is superficially true. It's also completely irrelevant, because we have no idea what GW has planned for KO. Recently they have shown a far greater desire to tweak points values, or FAQ problem units. Do you honestly think that the army will receive zero attention during the change? Please. Additionally, just because they are creating new rules for magic, doesn't necessarily mean that it will affect non-magic armies in a negative way. Who knows how the Endless Spells are going to function, really? That Orruk one they previewed wasn't exactly earth shattering. A spell having an actual board presence (with a model and such) just makes it that much easier to avoid - especially with a fast-moving army like KO. At the moment, it's a whole lotta so what? What we do know is that both a new edition, AND a new General's Handbook are incoming. What I meant by my original statement is that there is no evidence that GW is planning on letting the KO's sail on into the new edition without taking the 2nd edition rules changes into account. We have no idea what their plan is yet - not even a Faction Focus preview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 16 hours ago, Dez said: DON'T PANIC!!! They Skyships aren't falling!!! People do this every time, and I get it we put a lot of work and love into our armies....but we haven't seen everything yet. It's cool to theorize, as Chikout does above. In a unit of 10, they have to chew through 7 bodies. In a unit of 20 it's 14, and in a unit of 30 that's 21 bodies before your real shooting effectiveness (Light Skyhooks) sees a decline. I can see with the info we have so far that using Thunderers aggressively could pay off loaded up with more than Aethershot Rifles due to the limited range of their other weapons. A turn where 20 to 30 arkanauts have to shoot a bat swarm is a turn they are wasted, and aos plays fast enough that a turn or two is often all you get 2 hours ago, mikethefish said: I won't argue with most of that, because what you said is superficially true. It's also completely irrelevant, because we have no idea what GW has planned for KO. Recently they have shown a far greater desire to tweak points values, or FAQ problem units. Do you honestly think that the army will receive zero attention during the change? Please. Additionally, just because they are creating new rules for magic, doesn't necessarily mean that it will affect non-magic armies in a negative way. Who knows how the Endless Spells are going to function, really? That Orruk one they previewed wasn't exactly earth shattering. A spell having an actual board presence (with a model and such) just makes it that much easier to avoid - especially with a fast-moving army like KO. At the moment, it's a whole lotta so what? What we do know is that both a new edition, AND a new General's Handbook are incoming. What I meant by my original statement is that there is no evidence that GW is planning on letting the KO's sail on into the new edition without taking the 2nd edition rules changes into account. We have no idea what their plan is yet - not even a Faction Focus preview. GW regularly leaves armies in a poor state. It is not inconceivable that they do the same to ko. I can’t speak to anything they haven’t revealed, and I feel no need to wait and see forever. I’ll comment on their reveals as they reveal it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 ^I hope to hell they don't "Beastclaw Raider" us. The clown car build is a blast to play but people are saying that GW doesn't like it so it may get axed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 On 5/20/2018 at 7:32 AM, Dez said: I really love Mhornar, both in fluff and how it works. I feel like it should be the top Barak in terms of competetive play, but it's hard to argue with Zilfin I feel like where Zilfin got all it's ducks in a row, there is just the smallest bits missing to make Mhornar really great. Those Aethersperic Endrins are good! I played in an event with Mhornar too, and came away the winner though there were only 6 of us. They should create new unites for every skyfleet (like SCE chambers), some example: - Mhornar skyfleets are full of crazy pirate-dwarfs, maybe some out-of-the-code dwarf outcasts could be there (melee dmg spec unite, with some cowl and capes like "the fallen" in 40k!!). Even some sky-kraken hunters or flying monsters could be thrown here (transpoting some flying monsters could have some repercussion in Mhornar fleets!) -Barak-Nar could have something about magic (than some unbind rules), like a unite of technicians that are specialiced in killing magic stuff (something like Knights Excelsiors being more dwarfy, and of course, with more style!! After all, Nar has the most prominent society and is the richest skyfleet). #MakeNarGreatAgain -Barak-Zilfin could have a new unique type of vessel, baloon-dwarfs or even a new hero with an ability to put the skyfarer keyword to any other dwarf (they have the most advanced vessels, transporting a dwarfs shouldn't be something out of their mind). -Barak-Zon should have an elite battleline (melee-tank anvil-spec that wants to charge after droping from any vessel). After all, they are the best military skyfleet!!! (make them bigger than other dwarfs, ogre-dwarfs!!!) -Barak-Urbaz could have something like a bomb (chemists doing their usual stuff) or some kamikaze units for the lulz. -Barak-Thryng could have something from the old dwarfs. Maybe a rune-engineer or some warmachines with skyfarer keywords (not enough to make a gunline, but the feeling to have again ol'good warmachines...). Of course with some rules to clarify how can you use them in your own custom skyfleet, but you get the point. That could give us an edge to build other tipe of lists (and be more unique). Of course, we are not SCE, but one can dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 11 hours ago, stratigo said: A turn where 20 to 30 arkanauts have to shoot a bat swarm is a turn they are wasted, and aos plays fast enough that a turn or two is often all you get 2 simple ways to resolve that. 1. Screening units 2. Shoot the bats off with another unit before firing the unit the bat swarm charged (if you didnt manage to kill the bat swarm in combat the turn it charged) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 So my wish for increased unbinding range came true. Barack Nar does look like an interesting option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Chikout said: So my wish for increased unbinding range came true. Barack Nar does look like an interesting option. Even just to play Brokk! I would love it if they give us a generic warscroll with his abilities that isn't tied to Barak-Nar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, Dez said: Even just to play Brokk! I would love it if they give us a generic warscroll with his abilities that isn't tied to Barak-Nar. You can play Brokk in any list already though. He just isnt really worth the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balloon Dwarf Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Drofnum said: You can play Brokk in any list already though. He just isnt really worth the points. Maybe not, but he is a ****** cool model. I'd like to see a points reduction for him, or even an updated warscroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tittliewinks22 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I knew playing Barak-Nar would pay off one day. So I was eyeballing the loupe thinking a Nar navigator with 3d6+1 to unbind 2 spells a turn (3 once) would be sweet! Then I double checked our real battletome (the FAQ) and found out they completely reworded the loupe and it no longer works as written in the book... This army is a roller coaster of emotion, once you get hyped for something you get let down immediately by something else... Can we get a new battletome before 2019? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 11 hours ago, stato said: 2 simple ways to resolve that. 1. Screening units 2. Shoot the bats off with another unit before firing the unit the bat swarm charged (if you didnt manage to kill the bat swarm in combat the turn it charged) Ko don’t screen. Sure I could put dwarf warriors in in front, but the list build that dictates is one everyone I have played with it hates, and it is sort of the worst excess of shooting. It’s a boring list really. Just a ton of arkanauts shooting. Also you can’t do this in a drop in list at all Any unit shooting at a bat swarm is usually a waste of shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balloon Dwarf Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 On a completely unrelated note, has anyone tried magnetising their skyriggers so that they can play them as either skywardens or endrinriggers? I really like both styles of model and kinda want the ability to field both. Was hoping someone here had some ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.