Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[Aezeal]

38 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

Wardancers, Swiss Army knives 

 

Assuming that was a reply to my post I don't think they fill any of the problems I encounter (they are fast but not THAT fast and not battleline). I don't see a reason to replace the executioners, waywatchers or glade guard with them in this shooting oriented army. I think that IF I want more melee I'd sooner take EG since they are more of a roadblock/tarpit which would enable more shooting from the rest of the army.

[Aelfric]

5 hours ago, Aezeal said:

So mixed order + hammerhall allegiance, based on wanderers

 

Hurricanum + mage     380

Nomad Prince                 80

4x waywatcher (lord)    400

2 x 5 waywatchers         160

2 x 20 GG                            480

1 x 10 Executioners       180

This seems like a nice basis/core of the army for 1680 points which has decent synergy on bonus to hit.  320 points to spend.

 

Now I'll take you to my ideas.. my thoughts are long.. boring etc etc.. but I'm putting them here anyway so you can follow my choices so far:

I need: another battleline unit, more GG is an option but I prefer taking them in 20's and that would be another big cut out of the allowance. I'm considering 10 dryads since they are in theme, decent for their points and relatively cheap. I'm open to suggestions.

Other thoughts:

- I think a unit of 10 EG could be a good addition for some cheap - but possibly somewhat durable - mix between chaff and tarpit.

- a mage is always a good option.. if I take another one spellweaver is wood elvish.. but a collegiate wizard gets +1 to cast from the hurricanum.

- I have some more waywatchers lying around and I think they are probably the best shooting unit even though they are low on wounds.

- I think without the wanderer allegiance ability this basis does lack speed. To compensate I'm considering wild riders (fast but otherwise not good), Sisters of the thorn (very expensive but nice spell), warhawks (very very fast, and  can also be single unit chaff, more wounds  but even worse save for the points in comparison to wild riders) great eagles (similar to warhawks but not sure they are worth the extra  points), and even more chaffy but still fast option are hunting hounds.

- Something big is an option (TL, Drycha, durthu, phoenix, dragon) if it's scary it might mean my hurricanum get's less attention, this could combine with a loremaster (but I'd have to cut a bit from the core I made up since I also need a 3th battle line unit.

-Lore master could also work with (my max 2) dark elf reaper boltthrowers , they die quickly on long ranged enemies though.. however then they are at least not shooting at the hurricanum. (sadly this whole set up is 340 points.. which is to much even ignoring the 3th battleline unit). * maybe the spell would be somewhat worth it on a waywatcher lord *

- IS the nomad prince worth it in this set up (his ability doesn't work on a bit part of the army but still works on the waywatcher lords and the GG.. which is not insignificant.. but a 5th waywatcherlord is an option which just lets me roll more dice

- Stormcast have several decent to good choices in units and hero's

 

CURRENTLY my ideas are

- I'm leaving the stormcasts for now.. I don't have the models and (as you will see below) I ahve enough idea's that are more in theme (wood elf or wanderer which is first tier in this regard or sylvaneth, other aelfs preferably shooty which is 2nd tier.... stormcast would be... somewhere like... 5th tier thematically...)

- I think something big is not an option don't want to cut the executioners to make room for them

- Another mage (next to the hurricanum) except for a loremaster doesn't seem needed / worth it but the loremaster doesn't have a good target in the core army.

- Sisters seem a bit to expensive (especially since I have little points left) , they work nice if you also have a shield on the target but the hurricanum spell is just to good to not cast it.

- I think I'll leave the nomad prince in there for now and not take a 5th waywatcher (lord).

- I think combining fast movers and chaff in single model units of warhawks seems the best option to keep those roles filled (even though by combining them the fast movers don't get a lot of models which is suboptimal.. but it's cheap)

- I WOULD like to try lore master and 2x reaper boltthrower (with just a single one I think it's just very vulnerable and after 2 wounds I'll just have no target for the loremaster again) But where to get the points.....

- I would like to get another 10 waywathcers (unit) in there

 

SOOOO... even after cutting some idea's that leaves me with about 2200 or more points for my 2K army.....

 

Thoughts please!!! 

 

PS does invisible hunter from waywachter (unit) stack with the (lesser.. but identically named) invisible hunter from  the waywatcher (lord) command ability) EDIT: wait.. the command ability only works on wanders ofcourse.

PPS back to the fast units.. how do you people rate wildriders vs warhawks vs eagles (as quick movers) and eagles vs hunting hounds vs gryphounds (as single model chaff)

 

2 units of Reavers would be 320 points, are fast-moving and fit the theme.  Also you already have 6 leaders, which is the maximum for 2000 points, so another hero is not really an option.  Kurnoths with bows( as an alternative long range threat ) and 10 Eternal guard could be another option for 300 points, leaving you with a possible roll on the triumph table.

[Aezeal]

29 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

2 units of Reavers would be 320 points, are fast-moving and fit the theme.  Also you already have 6 leaders, which is the maximum for 2000 points, so another hero is not really an option.  Kurnoths with bows( as an alternative long range threat ) and 10 Eternal guard could be another option for 300 points, leaving you with a possible roll on the triumph table.

1. If I where to add another hero I'd obviously have to cut  one of the waywatcher lords... but they are sort of what the whole army is about so I don't feel like that . So I agree we can leave hero's for now.

2. Yes I have Kurnoths.. they are a decent choice indeed, a very good alternative too the boltthrowers .... sadly..... now I have even more options to consider . Your suggestion of Hunters and EG isn't an option sadly since I need battleline too. So we'll have to cut someother units that isn't battleline.

 

The reavers are interesting too... since they combine my fast moving AND a battleline choice (what ever we do I still need the battleline). I'd have really liked to fit in some single model chaff and the loremaster boltthrower combination.  I fear there is no way to put in the boltthrowers and the loremaster without cutting either waywatcher lords, waywatcher units or dropping both GG units to 10 which really lowers their effectiveness. So I guess I'll have to live with that.

For now I'll put a unit of reavers on the list (I'll proxy my gladeriders). Which leaves me 160 points. Your suggestion of another units of reavers is nice.. but I'm also tempted to get me more waywatchers or some of the chaff I'd mentioned. For now I feel  that 3th unit of waywatchers and 2 single warhawks might give me a good combination of more shooting, more quick units and more throwaway chaff.

I feel that in that set-up my army would lack a few things (a big tough guy,  long range threat, melee units - maybe I should get 10 EG instead of the warhawks) and would also be relatively elite so vulnerable to mortal wounds. Also the Hurricanum has a target on it's back and I would really fear for it's life. The hurricanum can of course be kept BEHIND my archers which means it should be out of range of a lot of stuff.. however... that would make it hard to buff the executioners (and I've just gotten my shiny new wild wood ranger who will be proxying them to stay more wood elf themed).

Hurricanum + mage      380

Nomad Prince                  80

4x waywatcher (lord)   400

2 x 20 GG                            480

1 x 5 reavers                      160

3 x 5 waywatchers         240

1 x 10 Executioners       180

2 x 1 warhawkrider    OR 10 EG      80

Makes 2000 I think. 

So.... now the big questions.. 2 warhawks or 10 EG? AND... will this be stronger in objective games than a pure wanderer army?

[Frozenbeast]

On 12/24/2017 at 1:46 AM, Aezeal said:

1. If I where to add another hero I'd obviously have to cut  one of the waywatcher lords... but they are sort of what the whole army is about so I don't feel like that . So I agree we can leave hero's for now.

2. Yes I have Kurnoths.. they are a decent choice indeed, a very good alternative too the boltthrowers .... sadly..... now I have even more options to consider . Your suggestion of Hunters and EG isn't an option sadly since I need battleline too. So we'll have to cut someother units that isn't battleline.

 

The reavers are interesting too... since they combine my fast moving AND a battleline choice (what ever we do I still need the battleline). I'd have really liked to fit in some single model chaff and the loremaster boltthrower combination.  I fear there is no way to put in the boltthrowers and the loremaster without cutting either waywatcher lords, waywatcher units or dropping both GG units to 10 which really lowers their effectiveness. So I guess I'll have to live with that.

For now I'll put a unit of reavers on the list (I'll proxy my gladeriders). Which leaves me 160 points. Your suggestion of another units of reavers is nice.. but I'm also tempted to get me more waywatchers or some of the chaff I'd mentioned. For now I feel  that 3th unit of waywatchers and 2 single warhawks might give me a good combination of more shooting, more quick units and more throwaway chaff.

I feel that in that set-up my army would lack a few things (a big tough guy,  long range threat, melee units - maybe I should get 10 EG instead of the warhawks) and would also be relatively elite so vulnerable to mortal wounds. Also the Hurricanum has a target on it's back and I would really fear for it's life. The hurricanum can of course be kept BEHIND my archers which means it should be out of range of a lot of stuff.. however... that would make it hard to buff the executioners (and I've just gotten my shiny new wild wood ranger who will be proxying them to stay more wood elf themed).

Hurricanum + mage      380

Nomad Prince                  80

4x waywatcher (lord)   400

2 x 20 GG                            480

1 x 5 reavers                      160

3 x 5 waywatchers         240

1 x 10 Executioners       180

2 x 1 warhawkrider    OR 10 EG      80

Makes 2000 I think. 

So.... now the big questions.. 2 warhawks or 10 EG? AND... will this be stronger in objective games than a pure wanderer army?

 

Instead of the EG have you considered the Highborn Spearmen? Same cost and easier to move around in my opinion. The have bonus against shooting and anyway they can fulfill the role of shields EG normally has. In my experience I could never find useful walking a unit of EG  in a wood for protection. Either because the objective I needed to defend wasn't there or because the unit I had to defend was not in a wood so I could never take advantage of the Bravery bonus or the save re-rolling due to the cover. I find Highborn Spearmen more useful from that point of view. And they are Battleline.

I am in favor of the Wardancers as it seems you don t really have anything that hits hard in CC a part from 10 exectioners which for personal experience go down pretty easily (I tabled a unit of 20 with 3 WW lords in 2 turns so more powerful shooting will just annihilate them in 1 turn), so a bit more of a kick on that front could help also because seen how you relay on WW lords I don t think you wanna cut them for a big monster. And then a big monster has to be complemented with a Loremaster or something who could buff the monster and that will mean cutting another WW lord. And all this just to list some CC.

I see your list with a loooooooooooooot of shooting. I get the 2x20 GG as you need BL, but I would consider cutting the reavers maybe for 20 HS so you would have your BL minimum and cutting the WW to 2x5 so you would have another 80 points to use either on another WHR or some Wardancers. I understand your needing of having a fast moving unit or two but you seem pretty static with all the shooting you have so I would just try and take advantage of the fact your enemy has to come to you, and not vice versa, and advance slowly but steadily toward the objective activating you counter charges when needed. 

I see this army working a lot like a Wanderer army should. Picking your fights (with the chaff you have for redirection) and pinning your enemy down while he advances (with all the shooting and magic you have)

[WABBIT]

Aezeal you have 320 pts spare so i wasn't suggesting replacing any units. As Frozen beast pointed out you already have a lot of shooting so some kind of combat presence seems to be required. Wardancers make excellent and flexible screen troops which can buy time for your shooters to really hit home and MSU dancer troupes could allow you to "block and out flank" your way onto objectives once shooting starts to clear the table. For 320pts You could go nuts and grab 20 wardancers  in 4 units for MSU or any combination you want. they make excellent roadblocks, Can be killy, mutually support each other as their speed keeps them close to each other and they will screen your shooters very well. as you need another BL I guess 20 will not be an option

If you have a lone fast cav unit it often gets thrown far forward on its own with no support and is quickly lost. Reavers cannot hold objective well so getting to an objective first isn't always a good plan unless you can support it and 20" range shooting from your GG and WW doesn't cover enough ground when Reavers can move 20" in one turn. Wardancers are nice fillers, they aren't amazing but they are useful in many areas. Just grab 10 spearmen or a unit of reavers for battle line and you have lots left for some combat power. Even another 20 GG fulfils your BL tax and leaves you enough for a unit of 5 Wardancers. or Drop one GG unit and get 2 cheaper units of 5 Reavers use the points for more wardancers and you have a mobile fast force of 2 reaver units, some wardancers for screening and support for your reavers if needed they are pretty quick to back up the reavers or help screen Reaver  and runs.

EG are great value but until wanderers get something like the sylvaneth ability to drop woods or something I find EG rarely find terrain to bunker into especially terrain that holds an objective. The enemy just move around you and ignore the EG so you rarely use the cover bonuses for many wanderer units unless you deploy key units close behind them like GG, SotW etc. The forest of boughs is always useful though and makes them worth it. I've used large units of Spearmen to surprising effect as they get extra attacks at 20+ with 2" range and they can pile in where EG in FoB cannot. Stick inspiring presence on em and they aren't easy to shift.

[Hyperion]

Where are you getting points for way watchers? They don’t come up in the app for me.  

[Aezeal]

8 hours ago, Hyperion said:

Where are you getting points for way watchers? They don’t come up in the app for me.  

Compendium warscrolls on the site. Just google wood elf compendium. Look at the last page for the points.

9 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Aezeal you have 320 pts spare so i wasn't suggesting replacing any units. As Frozen beast pointed out you already have a lot of shooting so some kind of combat presence seems to be required. Wardancers make excellent and flexible screen troops which can buy time for your shooters to really hit home and MSU dancer troupes could allow you to "block and out flank" your way onto objectives once shooting starts to clear the table. For 320pts You could go nuts and grab 20 wardancers  in 4 units for MSU or any combination you want. they make excellent roadblocks, Can be killy, mutually support each other as their speed keeps them close to each other and they will screen your shooters very well. as you need another BL I guess 20 will not be an option

If you have a lone fast cav unit it often gets thrown far forward on its own with no support and is quickly lost. Reavers cannot hold objective well so getting to an objective first isn't always a good plan unless you can support it and 20" range shooting from your GG and WW doesn't cover enough ground when Reavers can move 20" in one turn. Wardancers are nice fillers, they aren't amazing but they are useful in many areas. Just grab 10 spearmen or a unit of reavers for battle line and you have lots left for some combat power. Even another 20 GG fulfils your BL tax and leaves you enough for a unit of 5 Wardancers. or Drop one GG unit and get 2 cheaper units of 5 Reavers use the points for more wardancers and you have a mobile fast force of 2 reaver units, some wardancers for screening and support for your reavers if needed they are pretty quick to back up the reavers or help screen Reaver  and runs.

EG are great value but until wanderers get something like the sylvaneth ability to drop woods or something I find EG rarely find terrain to bunker into especially terrain that holds an objective. The enemy just move around you and ignore the EG so you rarely use the cover bonuses for many wanderer units unless you deploy key units close behind them like GG, SotW etc. The forest of boughs is always useful though and makes them worth it. I've used large units of Spearmen to surprising effect as they get extra attacks at 20+ with 2" range and they can pile in where EG in FoB cannot. Stick inspiring presence on em and they aren't easy to shift.

So you think 1 u nit of reavers and 2 units of wardancers would be  better than 2 warhawks and 5 more waywatchers... I can see the argument for more melee. However the fast movement and cheaper points of the hawks mean that you can grab objectives better if they are still alive and you can block units with only 40 points instead of sacrificing 80 points. I'd taken more waywatchers just because of the synergy with hurricanum.

I agree that in my previous games with EG I've not been able to put them into cover a lot (but that was also with the teleport ability which limited my options) so I agree EG might not be the thing for me.

I guess I'll just have to try those options (warhawks and wardancers) both. Got enough of both anyway. 

[Aezeal]

Btw the wardancers combo great with sister of the thorn... dont think it has been mentioned yet.. but I see options there.

[WABBIT]

Yeah war hawks are great too and a very cheap way to grab an objective as you say but they won't hold one in a fight. If I have 40pts spare at the end I often grab one as they can be very useful.  Waywatchers in units of 5 are now great again so point efficiency wise they are much better but those units don't offer you a combat option.

One warhawk cant screen very well, it covers so little ground. 5 Wardancers can cover much more ground and are more likely to last more than one round - maybe even win? If dancers can hold for a turn longer than a hawk then they are worth 2 screening  hawks. 

I wont/can't say which are better choices as its all match dependent and I'm always amazed how often my assessments by "Paper Hammer" are proved wrong in the game itself  I didn't think wardancers were any good until i used them or how bad they were if i misused them. I've never had a good game with Reavers but on paper they should be awesome so I blame me. Personally I find balanced forces more competitive and more fun to play which is why I suggest spending the 320 on combat/screening troops as you have support (Hurricanum and Nomad) so your shooting is punching very hard. I think you need a shield to keep the enemy fast movers from targeting your shooters and offer something to threaten objectives, challenge enemy shooters/heroes and keep the enemy off objectives. They find cover easily too. Give the enemy something convenient to charge and shoot at while you plink away. If you dont they will go for your shooters.

Wardancers offer more threat than a hawk or two so your opponent may take the time to deal with them. Hawks offer a greater threat range and can shoot a little (not enough) but in greater numbers can be a real problem for enemy shooters. I only suggest wardancers as they can do several roles reasonably well so in a melee light army they can fulfil many roles as and when required. There are much better specialists out there like executioners for combat, lone warhawks for cheap objective grabbing, reavers for movement, waywatchers for shooting etc.  It's all dependent on  what strategy you want to try out. Wardancers are not amazing at anything, they are just flexible and that can be a good thing as your opponent may under or overestimate their potential and its harder to read a wardancers next move  when they don't have a locked down role. 

[awcamawn]

28 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

Wardancers are not amazing at anything

They're amazing at looking real good, baby!  No Dark or High elf substitute has half the style points they do! Rule of cool ftw.

10 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Btw the wardancers combo great with sister of the thorn

I remember pointing this out in the big discussion thread when the changes to the compendiums happened. If they're not Wanderers anymore at least the Sisters can give them a rerollable 4+ save that causes mortal wounds to the attacker (on a roll of 4, 5, or 6) in the combat phase, although only every other turn. Just keep them away from rend, as always with Shield of Thorns.

41 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

I've never had a good game with Reavers but on paper they should be awesome so I blame me.

I've wondered about this, they initially look good on paper but idk 15 shots on 4s and 4s no rend isn't too reliable and they don't do a whole lot in melee either. What they do have to offer along with their battleline status is some quite impressive speed, which I can appreciate. Although if they do get charged, they lose the extra 2d6 move right? And then there's their overall toughness - they're armored like Wild Riders but have significantly worse bravery.

I have the Sisters of Twilight (Twilight Sisters?) on dragon model that I will definitely want to use once it's painted so I'm trying to figure out how I want to run Grand Alliance Order with Wood Elves. The battleline is the real tricky part, I want to stick to Wood Elf models but had considered using some Sisters of the Thorn and Wild Riders as counts-as Reavers. Now I'm beginning to think I'd be better served getting more bodies for my battleline points with Eternal Guard as Highborn Spearmen. Sure do miss Waywatchers as generic battleline, it didn't make sense but it did let me build the armies I had loved so much in Total War: Warhammer - just a dragon and maybe a hero or two, a good number of Waywatchers, and a whole horde of Wardancers!

[Yeled]

My WIP Wanderer Themed Frostheart Phoenix...

 

 

 

 

[Frozenbeast]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeleeeeeed!!! I cannot see them m8!

[Yeled]

Just now, Frozenbeast said:

Yeeeeeeeeeeeleeeeeed!!! I cannot see them m8!

Huh. I can't either on my cell phone. I'll fix it.

[Yeled]

10 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:

Yeeeeeeeeeeeleeeeeed!!! I cannot see them m8!

Should be fixed now.

[Yeled]

One more I forgot to add (top view)...

[WABBIT]

Awesome now paint it! 

[Frozenbeast]

7 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Awesome now paint it! 

Yep! Good luck with that 

Awesome fig mate! Like the conbination of all the pieces u put together. And Love the alberd/cleave for the annointed.

[Yeled]

8 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

Yep! Good luck with that 

Awesome fig mate! Like the conbination of all the pieces u put together. And Love the alberd/cleave for the annointed.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the anointed and his halberd. I'm actually still a little mixed about the throne with the treelord parts, but in the end I decided to go with it. I almost wound up cutting it off and replacing it with Durthru's sword as the back of the throne, but the sword was a little large for what I wanted. I think it will ultimately come down to paint and making sure everything works together and ties in. I don't want it to look like a Wanderer stole a frostheart phoenix and slapped some bits on it. I need it to look like it's natural. We'll see how it goes. Unfortunately I've got some other models to paint first (I also help my sons with their models and it's their "turns" for a little while), so paint will have to wait a bit.

In any event, thanks for the comments, guys.

[WABBIT]

1 hour ago, Yeled said:

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the anointed and his halberd. I'm actually still a little mixed about the throne with the treelord parts, but in the end I decided to go with it. I almost wound up cutting it off and replacing it with Durthru's sword as the back of the throne, but the sword was a little large for what I wanted. I think it will ultimately come down to paint and making sure everything works together and ties in. I don't want it to look like a Wanderer stole a frostheart phoenix and slapped some bits on it. I need it to look like it's natural. We'll see how it goes. Unfortunately I've got some other models to paint first (I also help my sons with their models and it's their "turns" for a little while), so paint will have to wait a bit.

In any event, thanks for the comments, guys.

How about a greenfire phoenix? Might make it even more distinct from the High born variants. Some trailing vines or something. Paint/colour the snowflakes more as leaves?

Damn I'm gonna try this myself   I have a lighter tone to my army than yours Yeled so I'm sure they won't look alike. I expect photos when your done mate.

[Yeled]

6 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

How about a greenfire phoenix? Might make it even more distinct from the High born variants. Some trailing vines or something. Paint/colour the snowflakes more as leaves?

Damn I'm gonna try this myself   I have a lighter tone to my army than yours Yeled so I'm sure they won't look alike. I expect photos when your done mate.

I was kind of thinking of painting it green and purple like my army while keeping the snowflakes ice blue. A nod to the cold without making it look like it's made of frost.

I will definitely share pictures when it's done. If you do your own you have to share as well. I'd like to see your take.

[WABBIT]

yeah that would work very well with your winter theme! Look forward to seeing it. I have a few projects on the go at the moment and i have two phoenix already (one of each for my high elf army) so it will be a while if i ever start on a wood elf version but your conversion has inspired me to bump it up the list!

[Frozenbeast]

18 hours ago, Yeled said:

I was kind of thinking of painting it green and purple like my army while keeping the snowflakes ice blue. A nod to the cold without making it look like it's made of frost.

I will definitely share pictures when it's done. If you do your own you have to share as well. I'd like to see your take.

 

If your color scheme is like the one in your profile pic, why don t you try something alone the line of this color scheme? green (especially the very light light one like GW moot green) and grey as primary colors with some purple for details. I find the contrast in the light green and dark grey particularly effective.

(sorry for the size of the pic. couldn't find a smaller one)

[Warboss Gorbolg]

22 hours ago, Yeled said:

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the anointed and his halberd. I'm actually still a little mixed about the throne with the treelord parts, but in the end I decided to go with it. I almost wound up cutting it off and replacing it with Durthru's sword as the back of the throne, but the sword was a little large for what I wanted. I think it will ultimately come down to paint and making sure everything works together and ties in. I don't want it to look like a Wanderer stole a frostheart phoenix and slapped some bits on it. I need it to look like it's natural. We'll see how it goes. Unfortunately I've got some other models to paint first (I also help my sons with their models and it's their "turns" for a little while), so paint will have to wait a bit.

In any event, thanks for the comments, guys.

The concept is awesome but I think the throne with treelord head is just too large and makes the model unbalanced looking.  If you can incorporate the branches lower on the model, I think it would look a bit more realistic as the throne will not be so vertical.

[WABBIT]

3 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

The concept is awesome but I think the throne with treelord head is just too large and makes the model unbalanced looking.  If you can incorporate the branches lower on the model, I think it would look a bit more realistic as the throne will not be so vertical.

For a split second I thought that at first but honestly I don't think that will be an issue once (as Yeled has said) its painted. The colours will really tie it all together. I actually now really like the high branches and Tree Man heads. Very in theme.

[Frozenbeast]

happy new year my fellow pointy ears friends!!!!!!!!!!!!

Might mighty Alarielle forgive us and take us back under her protection!!!!!!!!!!!!