How useful is a 2" reach ?

[RobF]

I have not played AoS yet but I am reading some stats and building some models now.

In this case I could have two hand weapons on my models  and have an extra attack or instead a 2" range weapon with the same to hit and  wound rolls but with one less attack

So I am wondering just how uselful and extra inch reach actually is and would love some insight from people who are already playing and know the answer from experience 

[Darth Alec]

Depends on the unit. The most important factor is how many models are in the unit, and how many are in range? A unit with 25mm bases benefit massively from 2" range, giving you a huge amount of extra models in range. 40mm infantry might benefit, if the unit is large. 5 man units won't benefit much, but 10-15 man units will potentially add a lot of models in range.

 

So if it's the Orruk Brutes you're thinking of, consider how many you want in each unit. MSU doesn't need to bother with extra reach, but large units will.

[Gaz Taylor]

I think it really depends on how you are using bases in the game as it slightly changes things if you are measuring from the base as a lot of players like doing or doing it from the weapon as per the core rules. 

But as Darth Alex has said, models on smaller bases get better benefits from having a bigger range, as you can get more models within range to fight. Bigger based models don't get as much out of it and are probably better with the extra attack.

 

[Dracoth]

I play with two groups one of which measure from bases and the other which use the rules for measuring from the model.

I find that the weapon ranges have much more of an impact on the games I play measuring to the actual model, 2" range can be very useful.

[Marc Wilson]

I think when the rules were first available, many people simultaneously started scribbling down little diagrams of how their units would manoeuvre so as to 'fight over' a covering unit and lots of combos have since been put forward. However because the game is so fluid and reactive I don't think I've ever seen this tactically employed - except by way of happy accidents. As above it's of biggest help in large units to generate more attacks, or quite rarely to split your attacks into other combats, potentially dragging them in,.

[DeadlySarcasm]

Measuring base to base: the additional range tends to just mean you get an extra rank to fight. You will usually find a 2" range on units with spears/longer weapons, and in 8th spears would give you an extra rank to fight. This is offset in AoS by the longer reach weapons usually being less likely to hit.

Measuring model to model: the additional reach again allows more models to fight, which is obvious. The other thing it is really useful for is attacking models on flying stands, sometimes a 1" reach simply wont allow a model to attack a flying model. Which I actually really enjoy, adds another tactical element to the game, which also means you sometimes find models having to climb trees/buildings to fight something aloft from the battlefield. From a cinematic view point, this is just awesome.

When I was playing my brother, he was using a phoenix of some sort and I had a unit of spider riders that I wanted to get in combat with the phoenix, so I basically baited him towards a forest and then stuck all my spiders on trees and smashed the phoenix's face. It was awesome.

[PJetski]

I really enjoyed using the 2" reach from my Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur to kill a wizard that was hiding behind a line of infantry

[Mengel Miniatures]

2" reach is great on my Skeleton Spearmen. Two 25mm bases lined up is just a tad shorter then 2" so I effectively can fight in 3 ranks.

[ProvokedTree]

2" reach means for smaller models, you can bunch them up close to make it harder for the enemy with shorter weapons to maximize their attacks against you, since there is less room for them to pile. It is also really useful for units that tend to have larger model sizes that average.  

Dryads are a good example in my opinion. They often come in units of 16 (since that is the box size, and they get their bonus to their armour save at 12), and the 2 inch range means it is a lot easier to get all of your attacks in, since their models are only a little smaller than the Stormcast.

[polarbear]

Also, if you play as the FAQ suggested and do not allow models to "orbit" the enemy when already in base contact, that can jam up your formation and benefits longer-reach weapons. 

[Veterannoob]

With round bases I see this as less of an issue but I'm biased as I assume no Fryreslayers (probably no Duardin) will have 2" reach *pout* 

[yarrickson]

26 minutes ago, Veterannoob said:

With round bases I see this as less of an issue but I'm biased as I assume no Fryreslayers (probably no Duardin) will have 2" reach *pout* 

You'd be right, the Runefather has a 3" reach but everything else is 1". 

[hobgoblinclub]

On 05/05/2016 at 1:04 PM, DeadlySarcasm said:

Measuring model to model: the additional reach again allows more models to fight, which is obvious. The other thing it is really useful for is attacking models on flying stands, sometimes a 1" reach simply wont allow a model to attack a flying model. Which I actually really enjoy, adds another tactical element to the game, which also means you sometimes find models having to climb trees/buildings to fight something aloft from the battlefield. From a cinematic view point, this is just awesome.

When I was playing my brother, he was using a phoenix of some sort and I had a unit of spider riders that I wanted to get in combat with the phoenix, so I basically baited him towards a forest and then stuck all my spiders on trees and smashed the phoenix's face. It was awesome.

This sounds great cinematically, as you said.  Doesn't it get frustrating, and potentially game winning, when it's exploited though.  It looks nice, but doesn't it become a determining factor in lots of games?

[DeadlySarcasm]

15 hours ago, hobgoblinclub said:

This sounds great cinematically, as you said.  Doesn't it get frustrating, and potentially game winning, when it's exploited though.  It looks nice, but doesn't it become a determining factor in lots of games?

As a club we don't model for advantage, but I don't think you really can exploit it. No part of a model can move more than its maximum movement anyway.

We were worried you could exploit the height of a flyer, but if you model it too high up you don't get to attack either, as soon as you are in range of something you want to attack, they're in range of you.

Some of us prefer base to base movement, my brother prefers model to model measuring, I personally don't care as long as I get a good game 

[Veterannoob]

On 5/5/2016 at 5:25 PM, Mengel Miniatures said:

2" reach is great on my Skeleton Spearmen. Two 25mm bases lined up is just a tad shorter then 2" so I effectively can fight in 3 ranks.

Yeah, those spears on skelees are brutal:)

[Dangermouse425]

It's an interesting point raised here. Having played with an Ogor army for the past few months, it's only occasionally that the extra inch on my Ironguts' weapons matters. Usually if you roll a decent charge into a unit with a decent frontage, it doesn't matter. But this is specifically with a 6 model unit on 40mm bases.

Where it does come into play is fighting against a thin frontage, against hero models or when in a tricky bit of terrain. Here I've found the 2" reach really helps get those crucial extra attacks in.

However, when I was assembling my Orruk Brutes, I kitted them out with 2" reach weapons purely because they looked cooler - in my mind the difference isn't that significant that you need to worry a huge amount. Undoubtedly though, the two hand weapons for the Brutes are statistically better, I just chose to ignore that for the sake of Rule of Cool.

[DeadlySarcasm]

28 minutes ago, Dangermouse425 said:

It's an interesting point raised here. Having played with an Ogor army for the past few months, it's only occasionally that the extra inch on my Ironguts' weapons matters. Usually if you roll a decent charge into a unit with a decent frontage, it doesn't matter. But this is specifically with a 6 model unit on 40mm bases.

Where it does come into play is fighting against a thin frontage, against hero models or when in a tricky bit of terrain. Here I've found the 2" reach really helps get those crucial extra attacks in.

However, when I was assembling my Orruk Brutes, I kitted them out with 2" reach weapons purely because they looked cooler - in my mind the difference isn't that significant that you need to worry a huge amount. Undoubtedly though, the two hand weapons for the Brutes are statistically better, I just chose to ignore that for the sake of Rule of Cool.

Rule of cool all the way! 

I can see how a larger reach would be crucial for larger models, and I honestly hadn't considered it until you mentioned it. I think with the brutes its a trade off, reach for +1 attack, and I think both are good choices depending on the situation. Whole unit in base to base contact, +1 attack obviously wins. Charging a unit where only a small charge lane is open (be it due to terrain or friendly models), then having more models able to attack is better. 

For what its worth, I bought 2 boxes simply because I couldn't decide which weapon choices I preferred visually so I will have one of each! Although I think if I only had one box, I would have built them with the jagged gore-hacka (two-handed).

I think once I have my ironjawz finished, I expect I will be adding some ironguts to my force, if for no other reason than they both have iron in the name!

[Nico]

2 inch range on Stormvermin is a big deal.

[Dangermouse425]

19 hours ago, Nico said:

2 inch range on Stormvermin is a big deal.

I can imagine if you're running large units of them, it certainly has its benefits. Fighting in 3 ranks effectively on 25mm is a big deal for elite infantry.

I think the lack of 2" reach on elite 25mm-based infantry is really the telling sign of how important 2" reach is. For every model that can't contribute into combat, you're losing a lot of power.