domus Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 After a re-visit, I'd really love to see some good Command Abilities in Ironjawz. Excepting Gordrakk, all of them are just garbage IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueisola Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 On 4/1/2017 at 0:16 PM, Galas said: Ironjawz don't need shooting. Yeah, they can benefit from it, but that will kill the feeling of the faction, don't it? I think that a Ultra-armored GoreGrunta chariot with the special hability to charge trought enemy units to broke their lines and go direct against their buffers and ranged units in the back can be ultra cool. We should get units that solve the problems of the faction with the feeling of the faction. If not, then all faction feel and play the same. Like givin Khorne shooting and magic. Blah! Totally agree with you here; as much as some kind of shooting artillery would be nice, I really don't want to just carbon-copy the blueprint of one army to another. I kind of love that we have no shooting abilities. The Ironjawz are not that far off, they just need some subtle tweaking and a few more viable choices. And I know some think that mortal wound output is not an issue, but it is. I don't field a mawcrusha, so other than the Weirdnob I have pretty much nothing. Giving some other options for specialty characters/heroes (yes!! to a megaboss on Grunta!) or smaller elite units would help immensely. and yes, just give us the ability to include a gargant already without penalizing the allegiance. As much as I love everything about my ironjawz, I hate with feeling how little versatility the army actually has at being properly productive on the table. keyword allegiance needs to be re-visited across the board for Orruks, period. love the idea of mini-wyverns with a breath attack of some sort.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Blueisola said: I really don't want to just carbon-copy the blueprint of one army to another. This sentiment should be seriously considered by every player of this game. Balance of strengths and weaknesses is much more interesting than "you get shooting so I should get shooting too." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galas Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 A Ard' BigBoy Gargantz can be cool. Like, a Giant full of armour. Thats the basic point of Ironjawz. Bigger and armoured versions of other lesser destruction races! (And I say this as a generic Greenskin player ) And yeah. Its a repetitive thing, that people just want the most OP and just that their faction can do everything, but thats the point why we have factions, so they are different and they represent different playstyles. Let the Posterboys of the setting have everything. Maybe it looks good at first sight, but it becomes boring pretty fast. I want my factions to have flavour, and if thats come with the cost of not having something, like magic, soothing, good meele infantry, etc... so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 'Ardgrotz? 'ARDGROTZ!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuluth Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Furious said: 'Ardgrotz? 'ARDGROTZ!! I think this is about as "Ard" as Grotz will be able to get. Going up as 'Made to Order' this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Going up as "I'm buying those" this weekend, you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I think a lot of it is perception when it comes to the Jawz. The initial release was such a purely foundational release albeit a great one. Some players view Jawz as "Hulk Smash" and only that. Others view them more as the Uruk Hai of the warhammer world, my self included, with a bit more military mentality to them. Time will tell with future releases. But the way AoS seems to be going is in a newer less classic view of their old IP. The whole angry, dumb orc thing has been done to death and I'm hoping for something a little more fresh. They can still be violent and brutish but let us not forget.... One is brutal and cunning.... The other is cunning and brutal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Morning Megabosses, I really like that this thread keeps going. Whilst some ideas are rehashed, new stuff keeps cropping up as well. Fun topic! On 31/03/2017 at 7:56 PM, Lysandestolpe said: This cannot be stated enough - preferably with an ability that makes grunta units within 10" do D3 mortal damage to one or all units on the charge. Whilst a points reduction to Gruntas is all well and good, a boost to the scroll would be much more preferable. As this won't happen, a Grunta hero who buffs them is the next best bet. An absolute must if we do get new toys IMO. Also...how cool would that model look?! On 31/03/2017 at 8:24 PM, Furious said: That sounds more like a Bonesplitters unit than IJ, who are closer to military-style discipline and probably wouldn't enlist a whacked-out Orruk among their IJ ranks. I dunno. I agree with the military thing (more on that later) so can see them enlisting a Berseker, controlled by a couple of minders. Think LotR and the siege of Helms Deep. A lot of what the Uruk Hai are in that battle is how I see Ironjawz in my head. Seige Ballistas and Crossbows, well disciplined and then letting loose the crazed Berserkers to blow a hole in the enemy line. Why not? Again, would look awesome. On 31/03/2017 at 8:26 PM, Vasshpit said: Finally someone sees it! It's the way I've always seen them tbh. On 01/04/2017 at 5:16 PM, Galas said: Ironjawz don't need shooting. Yeah, they can benefit from it, but that will kill the feeling of the faction, don't it? I think that a Ultra-armored GoreGrunta chariot with the special hability to charge trought enemy units to broke their lines and go direct against their buffers and ranged units in the back can be ultra cool. We should get units that solve the problems of the faction with the feeling of the faction. If not, then all faction feel and play the same. Like givin Khorne shooting and magic. Blah! I really disagree with the Ironjawz shouldn't get shooting thing. I honestly don't see why not. Sure they want to fight and kill, but I like the idea of them as more than just brainless thugs. Having a bit of kunnin' about them makes them seem way more dangerous. The chariot sounds awesome though! On 03/04/2017 at 10:08 AM, Bowlzee said: Crossbows are very un-Ironjawzy. However big stick chuckers would work. Still super choppy in combat but with a 8-10" Big Stabbas projectile... Again, I disagree. I think crossbows are the perfect missile weapon for Ironjawz. Just goes with the armour and fits in with thoughts around discipline and Uruk Hai comparison's above. What you've described is literally a Bonesplitterz unit! Obviously just my thoughts on the matter. 15 hours ago, Spinsane said: Speaking of gargants, why not give the Ironjawz a RogueIdol-like stone/iron Gargant? Controlled by a combined Warchanter & Shaman duo (representing Gorka & Morka), the golem/giant/whatever could also possibly have stats that depend on the number of nearby units, instead of remaining wounds? (representing the Waaagh energy available to power it) This is exactly what I've got planned for my Rogue Idol! 15 hours ago, domus said: After a re-visit, I'd really love to see some good Command Abilities in Ironjawz. Excepting Gordrakk, all of them are just garbage IMHO. Yup. This would also ease the pain of losing the Brute Big Boss General. 6 hours ago, Vasshpit said: I think a lot of it is perception when it comes to the Jawz. The initial release was such a purely foundational release albeit a great one. Some players view Jawz as "Hulk Smash" and only that. Others view them more as the Uruk Hai of the warhammer world, my self included, with a bit more military mentality to them. Time will tell with future releases. But the way AoS seems to be going is in a newer less classic view of their old IP. The whole angry, dumb orc thing has been done to death and I'm hoping for something a little more fresh. They can still be violent and brutish but let us not forget.... One is brutal and cunning.... The other is cunning and brutal.... As you may of gathered by my earlier comments @Vasshpit, I agree with you completely here. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Vasshpit said: They can still be violent and brutish but let us not forget.... One is brutal and cunning.... The other is cunning and brutal.... This is definitely the argument I want to see GW take into consideration when making any of the new factions for destruction. Just because you like to smash things doesn't mean you have the mind of an adolescent. Now, when we do say range or something beyond "smashing things" I believe most of us reference units like ledbelchers, that do some descent damage on the range but still punch hard in CC. At the same time, ranged units are not the most attractive suggestions in this thread. Armored Gargant, Grunta - chariot, Grunta Heroes, Baby Crushas I also wish to see new and better Battalions gives us the option to run a list independent from Ironfist Batallion. It is begining to get flat when 3/6 players at our latest tourney played almost the same IJ list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Just started reading Fury of Gork - the entire story (so far) is essentially about how Ironjawz are all smashy and 'ard, but are by no means your average greeskinz. Not far in to the book, Gordrakk sends out scouts - which is both cool and tactical. He lures Stormcast here there and everywhere. As is often the case with AoS, these armies are only reminiscent of the old fantasy armies we're used to (much like the new Dorfs!) - GW can take the aesthetic in any direction now, and I'm all for it. Personally, I wouldn't say it's that I want shooting because everyone else has it (although I won't pretend I don't have a bit of Kurnoth-envy) - it's that I want shooting because (to me) it makes a lot of sense and is the logical 'Special' unit for a future new release. It would give the Ironjawz the boost they need in the one department they're lacking. I reckon it would be a bit dull if a future Ironjawz release was just a few slight variations on stuff we've already got - say for instance, a new Ardboyz big boss, Brutes with extra-extra-jagged hackas, skinnier/faster gruntas. Give me something that's going to shake the meta up a bit and give me a headache when I try to build a list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Nicely said @Fungrim. Whilst I would be keen for allegiances to have clear identities and not be copy & pastes of one another, I still think it's important for them to be well rounded. We just need a few more different options to allow diversity in list building IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I second that @Fungrim. You hit the nail there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsane Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 So uh, Ironjaw Sneaky Gitz? More or less Brutes that can enter the field from any table edge on turn X? I definitely like that idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galas Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 You have convinced me with the Uruk-Hai comparasion. And to further my point of how cool an armored Giant or Trol will be to the Ironjawz... Just imagine him yellow! And the most I think about it... yeah. I can see Ironjawz with giant iron crossbows. Even scout-jawz and ... Ironjawz with pikes? That maybe its going too Isengard The Ironjawz berserker-hai thing its pretty cool, but a Naked Crazy Ork its basically a Bonnespliterz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, Galas said: You have convinced me with the Uruk-Hai comparasion. And to further my point of how cool an armored Giant or Trol will be to the Ironjawz... And the most I think about it... yeah. I can see Ironjawz with giant iron crossbows. Even scout-jawz and ... Ironjawz with pikes? That maybe its going too Isengard The new Forgeworld Gundabad Trolls would make great Ironjawz Gargants IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I could definitely get on board with some Ironjawz komman..... scouts. I'm sooo hoping that GW does right by Troggoth when they get around to it. The Age of Chaos bred an elite bigger breed of Orruk, no reason why Trogs should be any different. And with all the chaos tasties they've been feasting on will probably do some.... weird things to Troggoth biology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightFire Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Rather than crossbows or spears or other such "non ironjawz" things, they should do something with the gargants to make them have the ironjawz keyowrd, and make them throw stuff (rocks, trees, cows, whatever is near). As long as they can run fast they don't need to have super long range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Gargants just need to not break Allegiance IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 12 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said: Gargants just need to not break Allegiance IMO. Yup! Gurk and Murk wanna come out and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoTitanedition Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I`d like to see something, that fleshes out the character of the Ardboy a bit stronger and makes them playable as faction not led by Ironjawz, even thou being affiliated with them. So what I`d like to have is an Ardboy Megaboss. Other than that, they need something to get away from the pure infantry thing. As it is stated, that they don`t use minor materials for their armory, something like an ironclad battlewagon pulled by a monster would fit them. Same goes for cavallery. I thin a smal battlestation on Grunta with three Ardboys on it would make it believable. It would take more Ardboys than a an Ironjaw to tame a beast like that, utilising it in a different way. There could be some mounted shooty stuff on it, to symbolize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 On 9.3.2017 at 0:08 PM, Fungrim said: A grunta pulling a chariot with a mounted crossbow/artillery piece would be sweet I also wanted to suggest something along those lines. Some sort of armored chariot would be really cool. Almost like a tank, but pulled by a Gore-Grunta. It would have a move of 6" or so, two Orcs armed with Spears as crew (not doing that much damage though, perhaps 2 attacks with 5/4/-/1 and 2" range, the tusk attack like a normal Gore-Grunta (4x 4/4/-/1), and a ballista with an attack comparable to a Stegadon's Skystreak Bow (3x 4/3/-1/D3 with 20" range). It would have a 4+ save, bravery 7, and coming at around 200 points. I can already see how it would look like in my mind. I wish I could sculpt... EDIT: An pressed into service armored Gargant throwing rocks would be cool as well... Stats similar to an Aleguzzler, but with better armor, less move, and less attacks. With a rock attack, throwing it 20" or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Or a gargant that is like the aleguzzler gargant but cost 240-260pts rather than 180. Move: 6" Battleshock: 7 Wounds: 10-12 Save: 3+ Rule change: Beaten into shape - The ironjawz do not let the gargants off easily and in order to protect their interest does not feed it ale. Unlike other gargants, the Ironjawz Gargant is not subjected to Drunken stagger.Armoured Minion - Rather than send them in to kill, the ironjawz amor their gargants to last in combat. The gargant is equipped with a Scrap Axe, a Scrap shield and wears Scrap armour. A scrap axe deals: A2-3/3+/3+/-2/ 2, scrap sheild allows for reroll ones for armor save in combat, and Scrap armor gives the gargant a 3+ save. Massive Charge - the gargant causes D3 mortal wounds on the charge.Too dumb to get it - The gargant may not make any retreat moves. This lets the unit deal some mortal wounds, not a bunch of attacks, perhaps add a stomp attack that deals -1 rend dmg 1 damage or something, but add an annoying unit that is hard to kill and can do enough damage to take battle lines unless dealt with. The downside is once he is in combat, he cannot get out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 F*** Gargants!!! Send in the trolls!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 46 minutes ago, Vasshpit said: F*** Gargants!!! Send in the trolls!!!! You, sir, are not correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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