The future of compendium warscrolls

[Cerlin]

How can sio many people here claim to speak for confused new players?

I have been playing six months.  I am here because of old WHFB lore and games. My current armies are Empire, dwarf, and Bretonnia. More than half of my models are compendium. I have spent a lot of time and energy hunting them down and building them. It would be only a negative if GW took my ability to use them away. I can firmly say I would stop buying new models. 

Someone tell me how this is good for the game again?

[Marc Wilson]

11 minutes ago, Cerlin said:

How can sio many people here claim to speak for confused new players?

I have been playing six months.  I am here because of old WHFB lore and games. My current armies are Empire, dwarf, and Bretonnia. More than half of my models are compendium. I have spent a lot of time and energy hunting them down and building them. It would be only a negative if GW took my ability to use them away. I can firmly say I would stop buying new models. 

Someone tell me how this is good for the game again?

Bleh - who's taking what away from you?

[Ollie Grimwood]

5 minutes ago, Marc Wilson said:

Bleh - who's taking what away from you?

No One!!!!!!!

(I ran out of likes) 

[Jamie Ferguson]

1 hour ago, Ben said:

I understand why people are getting emotional about this but at the moment all you have is 1 event repeating its stance from last year.  

There are already 20+ UK events already booked in for 2017 and its the 3rd of Jan!) and one of them has announced no compendium (which I actually imagine will really mean no out of production models) its not big deal.

 Vote with your feet, or go along anyway enjoy the weekend but play a different army.  

 

 

I get that you're asking for perspective and context. I appreciate that. 

Unfortunately we're now at 3 events announcing they've taken this line and as I've said, many others historically follow this lead, it's happening already. Due to an accident of geography I live in Aberdeen so few of the 20+ events you mention are realistic options for me. The ones that are have tended to follow SCGT or Facehammer or Blood and Glory. 

To coin a phrase, when podcasters sneeze, the gaming world catches a cold. 

You know folks from Aberdeen do travel to some events down south (a bunch came to your Alliance) so we do try and get involved to the best of our abilities but the majority of our events are in Scotland where there are still a number of players who, not for competitive advantage run compendium lists. They may not even have alternate lists or just be considering returning to the still sparse Scottish gaming scene. For these reasons, it is a big deal. Round here, voting with your feet means not supporting Scottish events that need all the bodies they can get and Scotland too follows the podcasters lead. 

The purpose of this thread was simply to ask, who really gains by excluding compendium armies? 

I think Rob said it best on twitter. (Though he makes it clear these are his personal opinions and not necessarily GW company line)

[RuneBrush]

Quite an interesting debate going on with this!  Sounds like the biggest concern isn't actually about SCGT specifically but more about the wider implications.

As has been said a couple of times, this particular GT has gone for the same line they did with the last one (which was very successful) - to my mind this in itself resolves the concern the TO's are "in the know".  The concern seems to be that because this is one of the biggest tournaments (thus also influential), people are concerned/excited that the "no compendium" rule may carry up the food chain to GW and ultimately influence if GHb2 (the handbook strikes back) includes compendium points.

My own personal opinion is that it's too soon to drop all of the compendium points/warscrolls from the game - and I do mean game as Matched Play is the most common playstyle especially for PUGs.  Some I feel could be dropped as they've been brought back in a different format - to my understanding Slayers are now Fireslayers so could feasibly be removed*, Dwarf Miners however have no alternative as of yet and are a pretty important unit for people playing a Dispossed army.

What I hope is that once GHb2 arrives it will allow tournaments to simply go "build an army using the latest Generals Handbook"

* Apologies if I have my fluff wrong on this

[Paul Buckler]

Wow that's caused a bit of a reaction.  Seriously though I never even thouht this would be a 'thing',  from a personal persepective I am actually surprised this hasn't been spotted sooner.   I played in an event last year that had this ruling.

Some events will let you, some won't, pick the ones you want and attend them.  TO's can make the decision they want.  If no-one goes to events with no compendium then that will dictate future decisions.

Honestly I think it will make zero difference to attendances, people like shiny new toys, so the older stuff makes up a tiny proportion.

Personally for general events I feel its a good ruling, if your running a narrative or more hobby related event then I would keep them in, if it suits your storyline.

This is from someone who can no longer run his bulltribe, Wytch Elves or duardin lists.  It directly affects me, and I have no issue with it.

No one is coming around to your house to stamp on your brettonians folks, you can still play with them

 

[stuntymike]

There's a guy in our scene who invested heavily in his existing TK army once the GH gave them points. Not six months ago. Now all that money and time could be wasted. These are the people that lose out from this ruling. No one loses if compendium is allowed, all the rules are in the app and they have points. What is the issue other than personal gripes with some of the rules? 

[Ollie Grimwood]

@Jamie Ferguson

Then don't follow, run your own events. Demanding that the SCGT runs its event to suit your agenda is unreasonable. If they choose to play one way that is fine likewise it's fine for you to play another, for example that's why there are both Tournaments and Narative events taking place. 

@Ben has certainly expressed a willingness to provide advice on growing  communities and running events. May be contacting him would be a good place to start. 

[stuntymike]

At no point did Jamie demand the SCGT do anything he simply asked who benefits from banning compendium and expressed concern about the knock on effect. Maybe read properly before having a go at people. 

[Paul Buckler]

17 minutes ago, stuntymike said:

There's a guy in our scene who invested heavily in his existing TK army once the GH gave them points. Not six months ago. Now all that money and time could be wasted. These are the people that lose out from this ruling. No one loses if compendium is allowed, all the rules are in the app and they have points. What is the issue other than personal gripes with some of the rules? 

How? He can still play them just not at events that don't allow compendium.  Unless you all say 'no we won't play you now'  he can still use them.

Think you are getting a tad excited over this, its not the end of the world.  This happened last year at SCGT, loads of older models weren't allowed.  Didn't have any impact.  It's gonna happen sooner or later.  GW won't support models they no longer produce, it isn't sensible to do so.  If not this GH revision then the next will see that happening I think.  TO's are just getting ahead of the curve.

I lose out, I lose out big time.  I have shelves of models that are no longer useable at some events.  But that's the way of the hobby, you move on and start a new project.

 

 

 

 

[stuntymike]

10 minutes ago, Paul Buckler said:

How? He can still play them just not at events that don't allow compendium.  Unless you all say 'no we won't play you now'  he can still use them.

Think you are getting a tad excited over this, its not the end of the world.  This happened last year at SCGT, loads of older models weren't allowed.  Didn't have any impact.  It's gonna happen sooner or later.  GW won't support models they no longer produce, it isn't sensible to do so.  If not this GH revision then the next will see that happening I think.  TO's are just getting ahead of the curve.

I lose out, I lose out big time.  I have shelves of models that are no longer useable at some events.  But that's the way of the hobby, you move on and start a new project.

 

 

 

 

The player in question is ready to quit AoS because he's watching the number of tournies he can take his army too shrink by the day. So it's a big deal for him. 

Again who loses if events continue to let him use his TK?

[Ollie Grimwood]

11 minutes ago, stuntymike said:

At no point did Jamie demand the SCGT do anything he simply asked who benefits from banning compendium and expressed concern about the knock on effect. Maybe read properly before having a go at people. 

Having read all of what he's written I beg to differ. 

[Paul Buckler]

Quitting after 3 tournaments don't allow his army? Guess he wasn't playing many games between events. (or at all)

 

[Jamie Ferguson]

2 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Having read all of what he's written I beg to differ. 

That wasn't my intention. Tell me where I went wrong and misled you please?

[Ollie Grimwood]

27 minutes ago, Jamie Ferguson said:

That wasn't my intention. Tell me where I went wrong and misled you please?

From what you've written on the subject in particular your response to Ben. You're entire line of argument seems to be that you don't want the SCGT to do something because you believe it'll have a knock on effect on your local gaming dynamic. I would add despite Stuntymike's comment I'm not having a go I just don't agree with your position on this. Conversely if you were running an event and allowing compendium warscrolls and others were objecting in a similar way I'd be backing you all the way. 

[yarrickson]

30 minutes ago, Paul Buckler said:

Quitting after 3 tournaments don't allow his army? Guess he wasn't playing many games between events. (or at all)

 

Life dictates that this is sadly the case for some. Take @stuntymike for example. To my knowledge 90% of his AOS gaming has had to be at tournaments with little to no practice in between. 

Real life really does get in the way sometimes. 

 

[johnych]

Been following this debate with interest.

My major concern is that some events (for many reasons) carry a degree of "kudos" that leads to them having a large influence on not just the attendees of the events but also a larger section of the community who enjoy AoS. I know of a number of events that only exist because they were created as SCGT warm-up. There is also the question of whether this is down to the SCGT guys having an insight into GW's development that the rest of us don't or is just their own way of thinking.

One of the major issues that occured after GW killed WHFB and introduced us all to AoS was the loss of a lot of players who found the game they loved was gone. In some places (Scotland) this effectively gutted the torunament scene. The last WHFB event that I ran was the largest ever held in Scotland with over 50 players. This may not seem like a lot but for us was an excellent turnout, 12 moths later it was less than half. Now some of those players are gradually drifitng back, and one of the easiest way to get them into it is to do so using their existing minis, some of which have rules that only exist as compendium warscrolls.  My view is let them play, get them to fall in love with the game and then get them excited by the new models and universe in which they live, the natural progression will see the old stuff die out of its own accord. 

 

@Ollie Grimwood

Just a minor note, Jamie could organise an event that would make you weep to be part of, and we have a scene up here that I would say embodies everything that is is good in our hobby so we really don't need advice from @Ben or anyone else for that matter. 

The problem is as far as we can tell the vast, vast majority of players south of the border believe the the world stops somewhere around Newcastle. Heck there's more chance of some of the "names" of the tournament scene going to Adepticon than there is them spending a weekend in Aberdeen. But those same people make decisions (that for better or worse, and whether they know it or not) will impact our little corner of the world. Hence why we are asking the questions we are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DeadlySarcasm]

@Ollie Grimwood and @Jamie Ferguson

 

Let's agree to disagree and move on please, arguing with each other isn't adding anything to the discussion here.

Thanks

[Ollie Grimwood]

41 minutes ago, johnych said:

 

@Ollie Grimwood

Just a minor note, Jamie could organise an event that would make you weep to be part of, and we have a scene up here that I would say embodies everything that is is good in our hobby so we really don't need advice from @Ben or anyone else for that matter. 

 

Excellent, glad to hear it sounds like you won't be having a problem after all. 

[MrCharisma]

@Jamie Ferguson I commend you for asking the tough questions. 

These tournament changes don't impact me in Australia (yet), however; I'd be highly disappointed if compendiums were dropped. As an Empire player I've tried my hardest to convert to Free People. My battalion is bloated, my army was split into 4 sub-factions which no longer work together in parts and I doubt this will change anytime soon. 

If a compendium allows me to bring Knights or an 80 point character, I don't see what the big deal is. 

I'm always complimented by my opponent due to the uniqueness of my army and that they have never played against us. Chaos  Dwarves, Bretonnia, and Tomb Kings bring variety... otherwise tournaments will be full of Storms set Eternals, Bloodhound, Flesh Water Courts, Sylvaneth and Beastclaw Raiders.

Boring!

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, I dislike those noting that Compendium armies don't see much time on tournament tables as it is. I don't see how that should be considered an impetus to remove them entirely?

[MidasKiss]

People seem to assume that if they got rid of the compendium section that they would make no effort to further transition the important stuff out of there.

As a result the argument is largely keep it all vs throw it all out, which is one hell of a false dichotomy.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[johnych]

21 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Excellent

Excellent selective quoting and replying there...

[CoffeeGrunt]

28 minutes ago, MidasKiss said:

People seem to assume that if they got rid of the compendium section that they would make no effort to further transition the important stuff out of there.

Well that's the point of the Compendium, it's the last chance saloon for old models.

[Gaz Taylor]

My two pence......

I can understand why people are upset but at the end of the day it's all down to the Tournament Organisers what they want to do. I just hope we all don't fall into the trap that we saw with Fantasy and ETC where all events were the same (or slight variations) due to being practise for the ETC. The last year has been fantastic and I don't want it to slip back to how it used to be.