Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Fireymonkeyboy]

From a purely tactical perspective, I'm giving serious thought to making room for an allied wizard, likely a Bray Shaman.  Partly because I'm starting to build up goats, but also the prospect of summoning Bloodletters, or even a manticore lord, etc., are kind of fun.  Main stopping point for me is how squishy the guy would be, and how my summoning points would be stranded if he got sniped.

FMB

[Killax]

2 minutes ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

From a purely tactical perspective, I'm giving serious thought to making room for an allied wizard, likely a Bray Shaman.  Partly because I'm starting to build up goats, but also the prospect of summoning Bloodletters, or even a manticore lord, etc., are kind of fun.  Main stopping point for me is how squishy the guy would be, and how my summoning points would be stranded if he got sniped.

FMB

Give it a try. The latter is the prime reason I won't do it. Other reasons include the ability to simply deny the summon and having the Bloodletters be unable to move.
In reality I believe we have little to no reason to bother with summonning due to the prime acces we have to movement boosts and otherwise presenting more and more prime targets for our opponent to worry about. 

From a design perspective there likely should have been a Blood Blessing that allowed for Daemonic summonning. But it is what it is. I'm personally hoping to see the Daemon Keyword appear on our models who are Deamons.

[Kimbo]

Anyone here that have used chaos Knights in a Khorne army? 

- how did you feel they performed?

- Do they add something positive to the Blades of Khorne? 

 

Cheers!

[Killax]

They are a fine speedy alternative to skullcrushers with some great impact on the charge and their smaller base frame makes them excellent for flank charges. What I like with them is the same I like with a lot of Khorne stuff, we can boost their attacks and speed. Only reason why I don't use them that often really because outside of Gore Pilgrims they are the type of unit that can get out of the Bloodsecrator bubble, massive as it is, this is what they can do with all the speed bumps.

In general I'd say their positive aspect is their speed and initial impact. But I also have to be honest and say that it has been a while since Ive used them. Mainly because a lot of my current Khorne preforances go towards infantry blobs because we have some sweet cost efficient deals there. Even the Blood Warriors ability to strike back matters quite a bit.

Most Khorne armies I tend to create will have at least room for one unit of them. Two can be fit in there also. What I havn't tried is how they might interact with the Bloodmarked Warband. I can imagne them being an affordable asset there, you pay for 10, use 8 but can create some additional attack buffs... in theory...

Long story short, give them a try, they arn't too expensive anymore in my opinion.

[Fireymonkeyboy]

Even if you don't short the unit to 8, they're solid.  They really benefit from the potential bonus attack, and are a great target for hero promotion, due to their relative durability and speed.

FMB

[Roark]

What they said.

I love Chaos Knights, and it's easy to Stoke them and pull off a Turn 1 charge in Bloodmarked Warband. The Daemonic Mount Lord buff makes a unit of 10 very good (albeit with a large footprint). I've been using that Lord a fair bit because of his Daemon keyword. Knights' protection against mortal wounds is very welcome.

[AthlorianStoners]

A friend of mine runs Blades of Khorne, and has been struggling a little of late. Was just posting here to see if anyone had any tips, tricks or battle strategies they’d recommend. He usually plays against Beastclaw Raiders, FEC and a magic heavy Death list. 

The units he has available are: 

Skarbrand 

Mighty Lord 

Bloodsecrator 

Bloodstoker 

2 x Slaughterpriests 

Herald Of Khorne 

Khorgarath

3 x Skullcrushers

15 x Bloodwarriors 

30 x Bloodreavers 

20 x Bloodletters 

Skullcannon

Sayl (a counts as model, he’s yet to play him though)

He plays a little hesitantly, often holding his more powerful stuff in reserve. I’ll probabky get him to sign up here but for now any help would be awesome.

[Killax]

@AthlorianStoners Yeah the core of that list doesn't seem bad. Some things I feel to keep in mind is that we generally do not have a great use for summonning. 
I think in general Skarbrand can be great but would first have him play around with a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster if he really wants to have a BT centerpiece. The prime reason being is that those additonal points allow for an additional Bloodletter block to be 30 big and then have more points left for other good things...

The Mightly Lord of Khorne remains a neat piece also but also really wants to see a lot of mortal units on the field. The fact that they arn't presented here makes the WoKBT a better general from the getgo. An alternative to that is the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut who's speed and melee support usually comes in better at the right time.

Double Bloodstokers and double Slaughterpriest is something I have planned to work further with in 2018 as the meta has been empowered, sped up and it also means we cannot lag behind. Plus the combination of Bloodstoker + WoKBT Command Ability on Bloodletters is generally really good. Then add Killing Frenzy from a Slaughterpriest on top of the Bloodletters and have the WoKBT strut around with The Crimson Crown and well... at that point your working with the best combinations Khorne has to offer right now.

Lastly I think Skarbrand has it's place and merrits but you really need to focus so much on him in order to do this. E.g. double Slaughterpriest with Bronzed Flesh and double Bloodstoker on Skarbrand should get him around. Yet the fact that he doesn't fly does make him less tactical flexible as a WoKBT.

[NemoVonUtopia]

I tend to use my Blood reavers as a screen to absorb charges so my other units can choose their engagements better. Also I keep my slaughterpriests just behind the front lines where they can be in range to unbind and pray without getting into combat themselves. 

Sayl seems like an odd choise, his unique spell only works on slaves to Darkness so nothing in that list can benefit from it.

I have played a lot against FEC and have found wrathmongers to be great vs terrorgeists and zombie dragons.

I struggle against Beast claws since thundertusks kill all my support characters and cannot get through to them.

[AthlorianStoners]

@Killax 

ok awesome, thank you so much for the info I’ll pass it on. 

In your opinion what’s a good number of infantry to use, and what infantry should be played? 

[AthlorianStoners]

@NemoVonUtopia

He wanted to play Sayl more for a lore perspective than anything else I think. 

Yeah in general when we play, my BCR clean out the heroes and then basically wipe out what’s left. 

[Killax]

2 minutes ago, AthlorianStoners said:

@Killax 

ok awesome, thank you so much for the info I’ll pass it on. 

In your opinion what’s a good number of infantry to use, and what infantry should be played? 

No worries! Khorne is quite straight forward to play and effective at it once you make things easier for yourself, which is generally presenting a vast multitude of problematic units to deal with.

Infantry I like the most are Bloodletters and Blood Warriors. Since BoK's drop I basically always want to use 2x30 Bloodletters and 10 Blood Warriors at 2000 points. A bit of a heavy hammer, minor anvil approach. Adding to that again is GH2017's Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster, his command ability is great, his own output is good, 330 points is ever so slightly more affordable as 400 and they both die the same way...

To supplement this backbone a vast variant of units can be used really. His hero set up in general looks strong, though again there is less use for a Mighty Lord of Khorne here. If he really wants to go a heavier mortal path I'd still include at least one Bloodletter unit and likely add a second Blood Warrior unit. 

All armies can then pretty much be supplemented with whatever he likes. I like Wrathmongers a lot, some like Skullreapers, Skullcrushers or Chaos Knights. These are all options to support/clear the path for the core backbone units. If he wants to add more speed, let him have a go at Murderhost, if he wants more reliable Slaughterpriests Gore Pilgrims allow for that.

[AthlorianStoners]

@Killax thanks for taking the time out to reply, I just spoke to him now and he’s fefintley gonna run the WoKBT. I’ll let you know if there’s any improvements  

[AthlorianStoners]

@Killax thanks for taking the time out to reply, I just spoke to him now and he’s fefintley gonna run the WoKBT. I’ll let you know if there’s any improvements  

[jazman84]

2 hours ago, AthlorianStoners said:

A friend of mine runs Blades of Khorne, and has been struggling a little of late. Was just posting here to see if anyone had any tips, tricks or battle strategies they’d recommend. He usually plays against Beastclaw Raiders, FEC and a magic heavy Death list. 

If they run plenty of Stonehorns, make sure your friend knows about the Errata that nerfed the stones skeleton against damage 1 attacks.

 

Quote

BEASTCLAW RAIDERS Pages 108, 110 and 112 – Frostlord on Stonehorn, Huskard on Stonehorn and Stonehorn Beastriders, Stone Skeleton Change to: ‘Stone Skeleton: Halve the Damage characteristic (rounding up) of weapons that target this model. In addition, halve the number of mortal wounds this model suffers from a spell or ability (rounding up).’

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_destruction_en.pdf

[Roark]

Geez, did dmg1 weapons formerly do zero dmg  against those guys???

[jazman84]

6 hours ago, Roark said:

Geez, did dmg1 weapons formerly do zero dmg  against those guys???

Na. It used to calculate total dmg received, then halved it. Now it simply halves the dmg profile of the attack.

[Sabrewulf]

Little-used Slaves to Darkness Mortal Khorne synergies ... I've been playing around with a couple of these. 

1) 10 Chaos Chosen, 1 LoKJ, 1 Goreglaive, Bloodmarked Warband.

Chaos Chosen. They do mortal wounds on a 6 or more to wound. Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut adds +1 to wound for three mortal units on the charge. I've been whipping these guys (unit of 10), using LoKJ command ability for +1 to wound, and slingshotting them with Sayl into enemy heroes and monsters.

When I do this with Bloodmarked Warband, I charge LoKJ into an enemy unit within 16" of the Chosen before the Chosen attack. So long as I kill one model, the Chosen gain an attack. This gives the Chosen a profile of 4 Attacks, 3+ Hit, 2+ Wound (re-rolling 1s), Mortal Wounds on a 5+, Rend -1. For a unit of 10, 41 Attacks, 20.5 hits, 8-9 Mortal Wounds average. 

I can also flip this around. Chosen attack first, kill one model. LoKJ now rerolls failed wounds. If he has the Goreglaive (he does), and he charged (of course), he does 3 mortal wounds per 5+ (if he charges, he gets to use Blood Stampede on himself, as well as 3 other units). So now, he gets 3 attacks, 3+ hit, 2+wound (rerolling all failed rolls), -2 rend, 3 Damage for 3-6 mortal wounds per turn on attacks and 3 more for Murderous Charge. He'll reliably do 6-9 mortal wounds with no other buffs (add a Bloodsecrator or some Wrathmongers and this whole thing gets even dumber.

If the enemy kills the Bloodsecrator or a Bloodstoker, the Chaos Chosen Exalted Champion gets Raised to Glory. Now he has 5 attacks, mortal wounds on 6+/5+ (LoKJ) and if he kills anything, all his mortal-wound inflicting comrades reroll their wound rolls. You can see where this is going.

2) Exalted Deathbringer, Skullgouger, Gore Pilgrims, Slaughter Priest w/ Bronzed Flesh

Bronzed Flesh doesn't increase your save, it adds +1 to your roll. With a Skullgouger, you inflict D3 Mortal Wounds per roll of 6 or more. Cast Bronzed Flesh on your Exalted Deathbringer, charge him into a large enemy unit, roll 20 saves inflicting D3 mortal wounds on a 5+, average 7D3 mortal wounds (in addition to whatever damage he causes). 7D3 mortal wounds, minimum 7, max 21, from one model. I see a lot of Gore Pilgrims with two Blood Stokers; I like to sub one out for an Exalted Deathbringer.

3) Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount, Immense Power, Gorecleaver, Gore Pilgrims, Killing Frenzy, Chaos Chosen

This bad boy has 4 Attacks, 2+ Hit (Reroll 1s), 2+ Wound (Mortal on 5+), -2 Rend, 3 Damage. He'll average 9 damage, 3 Mortal Wounds per turn. dding attacks thru any means (Bloodmarked Warband, Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers) is +2 Damage / +1 Mortal Wound more on average. Oh, and he has a Runeshield, so when he misses, next turn, he usually gets to try again.

Anyway, I like these because people don't see them coming. Nobody runs Slaves to Darkness in my local area and these aren't 'competitive' synergies so they sneak up on people. The Bloodmarked Warband LoKJ + Chosen is far and away the best one, because whichever unit you start with procs mortal wounds from itself and the supporting unit. 

Enjoy,

Sabre

[AverageBoss]

Is $25 a good price for the Garrek's Reavers models on their own if I have no interest in other Shadespire stuff?

[Killax]

 

8 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Is $25 a good price for the Garrek's Reavers models on their own if I have no interest in other Shadespire stuff?

I'll be honest and say it's a tad high if you arn't going to do anything with the cards. Though having said that, they are amazing Bloodreaver models, Garrek, Saek and Karsus are really on that 'heroic' level of design. So go for it if your intend is to use them for the hobby reasons.

I've got two sets, one converted and I use them to create some visual difference (and add bodies) to my Bloodreaver unit. I just think that Garrek makes for the ultimate unit champion and both Saek and Karsus look like they are wielding two handed weapons anyway so they blend right in with the rest of the Meatripper Axe wielding reavers.

But for playing purposes I think they are a nice 60 point unit, nothing to complain about really. Just like most Raevers I do think that you want that totem bonus though but that might have been your intention to add anyway.  

[TheAdequateWargamer]

On 02/02/2018 at 12:27 PM, jazman84 said:

Na. It used to calculate total dmg received, then halved it. Now it simply halves the dmg profile of the attack.

Yeah, they use to be proper beasts, now they are quite susceptible to a horde & weight of dice.

[Fireymonkeyboy]

18 hours ago, Sabrewulf said:

 

I can also flip this around. Chosen attack first, kill one model. LoKJ now rerolls failed wounds. 

How does this work?  Chosen ability to re-roll only affects StD models, and LoKJ isn't StD.  Was it errata'ed?

Also, with your Exalted DB, how are you getting the 20 wounds?

I run both Bloodmarked and StD regularly, though not those units, so I'm keen to see how this works.

FMB

[kozokus]

1 hour ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

Also, with your Exalted DB, how are you getting the 20 wounds?

Take an exalted deathbringer, put 2 or 3 "+1 armor" blessings and put him into cover.

On a 6 on his armor save, he trigger a backslash of D3 Mortals wounds. If he get attacked by let's say a horde of skeletons and have to make 20 saves, every save of 4+ (with +2 armor lets say) will trigger the backslash, so about 20 mortal wounds on average.

Nice combo but require the full cooperation of your ignorant opponent and the alignment of planets. Plus, those nice +1 armor bonuses arn' going on your units.

[TheAdequateWargamer]

Went to Sheffield Slaughter last weekend- exact same list I took to blood and glory. 

If you're interested:

https://theadequatewargamer.wordpress.com/2018/02/03/tournament-sheffield-slaughter-2018-review/

First time I didn't have to play another khorne army or stormcast, which was great.

I notice most people posting lists on the forum tend to put brazen rune on the bloodsecrator. Just a thought but I recon putting it on another hero is the way to go. Its spreading the redundancy in your anti magic options. Plus I don't think I have ever lost a BS to magic, but plenty of experience of him being shot off the table t1. 

[Sabrewulf]

2 hours ago, Fireymonkeyboy said:

How does this work?  Chosen ability to re-roll only affects StD models, and LoKJ isn't StD.  Was it errata'ed?

Also, with your Exalted DB, how are you getting the 20 wounds?

FMB

D'oh! Some crow to eat with a couple recent opponents. Never occurred to me Chosen ability was just StD. Thanks for correction.

Still works the normal way tho. LoKJ affects Mortal Khorne, so Khorne-Marked chosen can use Blood Stampede to proc more mortal wounds.

Exalted DB only needs one cast of Bronzed Flesh for Skullgouger to work. Opponent ignorance isn't required; if the DB charges a large unit or a unit with a lot of attacks, they don't really have a choice. It isn't 20 wounds, it's D3 wounds per 6+ save. With Bronzed Flesh you'll average 1/3 saves of 5+ or 6+. It can be more, it can be less.

Sabre