Nico Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but SCGT headlines confirm that Compendium Warscrolls are not being used. See Dan Heelan's Twitter. This will spread to most other independent events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mengel Miniatures Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 50 minutes ago, Nico said: I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but SCGT headlines confirm that Compendium Warscrolls are not being used. See Dan Heelan's Twitter. This will spread to most other independent events. Didn't SCGT ban them last year though too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Dragon Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Mengel Miniatures said: Didn't SCGT ban them last year though too? No. In fact @Nico took them last year (among others obviously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiallJC1984 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I believe there were some scrolls banned. In the back of my mind there were certain things disallowed. Not a whole range though. Interesting direction and good insight to 2017 Indy (and possibly GW) tournament scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 On 30/12/2016 at 11:02 PM, James Ramsay said: TOs here in the UK hate everything compendium. TOs or one particular outspoken group with a podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 17 hours ago, Nico said: I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but SCGT headlines confirm that Compendium Warscrolls are not being used. See Dan Heelan's Twitter. This will spread to most other independent events. I saw this and I asked Dan why Compendium scrolls were banned but FW weren't (as similar cases can be made against each). I got no response. We'll see about how it spreads although I will say that the attitude of "I want to play with my toys but I just don't want you to play with yours" is toxic and self serving. It does nothing but fragments communities and creates barriers of entry for potential participants in the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Trying to see some positives.... Some events will follow SCGT's lead and others will not. Almost everyone wants to use/play against Forgeworld models and new Forgeworld models are coming out - even Shar'Tor for the Legion - these armies aren't considered by the majority to be "legacy" in the same way (this is subjective of course). One option is to write a sensibly balanced Death Battletome and host an event that's using it - hope it catches on. I'm not volunteering to do so. I wish I had the time. Alternatively hope for a Deathlords Battletome in March. Hopefully TK units can still be used as sensible proxies - e.g. Necro Knight as Morghast. I made a count of 55 pointed Order Battalions incl the new one in the Spire of Dawn Box (which is pointed). This compares to c. 41 Death Grand Alliance Warscrolls (including the Mourngul). Not including their 10 Battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: I saw this and I asked Dan why Compendium scrolls were banned but FW weren't (as similar cases can be made against each). I got no response. We'll see about how it spreads although I will say that the attitude of "I want to play with my toys but I just don't want you to play with yours" is toxic and self serving. It does nothing but fragments communities and creates barriers of entry for potential participants in the hobby. You can actually buy FW models. So i see no reason to ban them. Even though, super hate FW models. That always make silly rules and me being in the US they may as well be Ebay models, but you still have reasonable access to the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 25 minutes ago, mmimzie said: You can actually buy FW models. So i see no reason to ban them. Even though, super hate FW models. That always make silly rules and me being in the US they may as well be Ebay models, but you still have reasonable access to the range. Actually, not all of them. The Curs'd Ettin, both Incarnate Elementals, Preyton, Rogue Idol, Chaos War Mammoth are all no longer available from FW yet they have playable rules. Some haven't been available since before TK were still available. Ironically, some FW models that are still available have compendium scrolls (i.e. Thane with Battle Standard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: I saw this and I asked Dan why Compendium scrolls were banned but FW weren't (as similar cases can be made against each). I got no response. We'll see about how it spreads although I will say that the attitude of "I want to play with my toys but I just don't want you to play with yours" is toxic and self serving. It does nothing but fragments communities and creates barriers of entry for potential participants in the hobby. Then those models should get the axe as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 So in a hobby (first and foremost a hobby, then a game) a model that takes hours to paint and lasts for decades (if not centuries) is really only allowed as long as the manufacturer still manufactures it, even if it's rules are still available? Ohhhhh kaaaaayyyyy... Better tell all those 2015 Altima owners that their cars are not welcome on the highways since Nissan no longer makes them. Who cares if mechanics still service them and used car lots still sell them? Got a Galaxy S6? Too bad the faster, better S7 came out and you are no longer allowed to interact with others on the internet on your S6 (since, you know, the S6 is slower and may make your interaction less enjoyable for S7 owners). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Quote Better tell all those 2015 Altima owners that their cars are not welcome on the highways since Nissan no longer makes them. Who cares if mechanics still service them and used car lots still sell them? Got a Galaxy S6? Too bad the faster, better S7 came out and you are no longer allowed to interact with others on the internet on your S6 (since, you know, the S6 is slower and may make your interaction less enjoyable for S7 owners). As much as I have a TK army (I play all 4 GAs and have taken at least one army from each GA to AoS Events, and Death are well-represented and my first love in Warhammer - they got me into the game in a big way); and understand your frustration, I have to remind you that the point is that Nissan doesn't own the roads and Samsung doesn't own the Internet. For SCGT - it's their house, so their rules. Of course, any other TO is free to have their own rules and there will be events that do allow TK for years to come. Very happily, it does seem that in the US and presumably many other places, TK will find a home at events. It is unfortunate that other TOs in the UK will likely follow suit. The Death Grand Alliance will be the weakest by far assuming they don't get a Battletome (or an early GH v2 with a Death Lore) in March. It's an unfortunate fact of existence that if you play a less popular or older faction, then you are less likely to get fair/special treatment at events (e.g. you're unlikely to get favourable house rules, adjustments to points are less likely to go your way) simply because there are fewer people clamouring for such changes and so these things aren't a priority - or they are simply obscure. It's hard to motivate someone to adjust the points cost of Malagor to give an extreme example. Warherd were more or less crippled by the changes to the FAQ for example. This is not to say that you shouldn't try to persuade TOs to adjust packs in advance of an event. However, they aren't likely to change their minds on this one; and they aren't likely to ban Forgeworld models either (not least because many of these models are new/represent the future of the game - Shar'Tor is newer than the Seraphon Battletome, which by itself makes the Legion an AoS army however you want to look at it, the EGDs just came out, the Monstrous Arcanum was released for AoS and the monsters are also fresh and fun and great for hobbyists). I do agree that I don't find arguments like the rules are somewhat hard to find so ban Compendium (strong counterarguments are you can find and read all the rules - and ask people on forums what rules you should focus on) or the models aren't sold any more, so ban Compendium (the strong counterarguments are secondary market/conversions) very convincing. One of the points about SCGT that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that it is a highly-narrative driven event - although it's still obviously one of the most hotly contested tournaments. I know that the TK are mentioned in the fluff as @Thomas Lyons has rightly pointed out. However, there's no getting around the fact that named characters popping up anachronistically (little Alarielle, the Green Knight, King Louis) do spoil the narrative for some people. Even Settra would seem somewhat anachronistic in AoS (hopefully one day he will return to the game in a new faction as has been speculated on widely - it would be amazing). One final point is that even from a balance perspective, Death aren't the only losers from this change (although they are by far the biggest loser). Chaos have lost their best Warscroll in the game - i.e. Little Archaon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Still, it makes for a stupid situation that will end up in an MtG style obsoletion business model. Right now if something goes OoP, it's a ****** to get the models. Now we're being told it could mean you're never allowed to play that model or unit again even if you still have it. That's ridiculous, and in a game as anaemic as AoS, you can't really afford to start taking chunks out of it in its infancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I think TK and pther models are cooler with the obsoletion MtG format. It makes them less of a... "oh... your playing... army... let me dust off my ipod." And more of a "whoa you have those guys." Make them more of a cool collectors item. Also i love that they have a compedium with points. Thats amazing to me. It means you cqn still play them ever now and then in casual and in some tournaments that allow them. Now while i think the faction of TK is super lame. If they brought them back and maybe... made them seem cool and relavent. Maybe have them chqllenge nagash in some way. Go more egyption and lay off the skeleton stuff abit (though tzeetchs toes might be getting stepped on) they'd be alot cooler. I'd love a faction that could have a city with civilions. I dislike it when war games are all war all the time. Iwant to hear about the innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, mmimzie said: I think TK and pther models are cooler with the obsoletion MtG format. It makes them less of a... "oh... your playing... army... let me dust off my ipod." And more of a "whoa you have those guys." Make them more of a cool collectors item. Until people say, "ah but yeah, can't play those, sorry," which is what we're discussing. That's not cool. 2 minutes ago, mmimzie said: Now while i think the faction of TK is super lame. If they brought them back and maybe... made them seem cool and relavent. Maybe have them chqllenge nagash in some way. Go more egyption and lay off the skeleton stuff abit (though tzeetchs toes might be getting stepped on) they'd be alot cooler. I'd love a faction that could have a city with civilions. I dislike it when war games are all war all the time. Iwant to hear about the innocent. Because you think a faction is lame doesn't mean it should be nixed. I think Stormcast Eternals are a god-awful pandering to the popularity of Space Marines in an attempt to drive sales, but I don't rain on peoples' parade by telling them that all the time. Also you don't get innocent civilians in wargames because wargames are about war, it's in the name. In the backstory is where the civilians are, but in a wargame you're playing a simulation of a war of some kind, ergo they're always about war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord marcus Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, mmimzie said: I think TK and pther models are cooler with the obsoletion MtG format. It makes them less of a... "oh... your playing... army... let me dust off my ipod." And more of a "whoa you have those guys." Make them more of a cool collectors item. Also i love that they have a compedium with points. Thats amazing to me. It means you cqn still play them ever now and then in casual and in some tournaments that allow them. Now while i think the faction of TK is super lame. If they brought them back and maybe... made them seem cool and relavent. Maybe have them chqllenge nagash in some way. Go more egyption and lay off the skeleton stuff abit (though tzeetchs toes might be getting stepped on) they'd be alot cooler. I'd love a faction that could have a city with civilions. I dislike it when war games are all war all the time. Iwant to hear about the innocent. That was the entire point of TK. They did "go Egyptian"...... However they also incorporated elements of Babylonian and Hittite culture/mythology into thier unique style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Nah you could have for instance a khnore army ravaging a free people town, and how they formed some last minute militia to hold them off. Its kind of like i want to know what death fights for other than just to fight. It'd be cool if TKs came back as more of a civilization where they are fighting for homes and families. Skeltons have families too you know. When i say go egyption i want it to be less of a skeleton force and morr mummy. Scarb, snakes, sphinx, sand wartior/people sort of thing. I think the skeleton thing should be more a death rattle horde thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord marcus Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, mmimzie said: Nah you could have for instance a lhnore army ravaging a free people town, and how they formed some last minute militia to hold them off. Its kind of like i want to know what death fights for other than just to fight. It'd be cool if TKs came back as more of a civilization where they are fighting for homes and families. Skeltons have families too you know. When i say go egyption i want it to be less of a skeleton force and morr mummy. Scarb, snakes, sphinx, sand wartior/people sort of thing. I think the skeleton thing should be more a death rattle horde thing. What........? That makes no logical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 16 minutes ago, Lord marcus said: What........? That makes no logical sense. What?? The Egyptian army thing?? You just play up the desert and egyptuan theme more. Have it so they move to a realm of ever shifting sands as it slowed nagash from taking them over, but the sand claimed they're souls or whatever. So they become warriors made from the sands. Could keep the sphinx and scorpions. If you mean, TKs having homes and familys or whatever? After being sandified a massive horde of goblins (because i never heard lore on these guys) came rampaging through thier rebuilt civilization. Where they were able to craft more of themselves. Maybe have all of the warrior made from the will of thier tomb king who are the only ones with enough since of self to expand themselves. No idea why we have to add logic to warhammer lore... when has that ever been a thing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mengel Miniatures Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, mmimzie said: What?? The Egyptian army thing?? You just play up the desert and egyptuan theme more. Have it so they move to a realm of ever shifting sands as it slowed nagash from taking them over, but the sand claimed they're souls or whatever. So they become warriors made from the sands. Could keep the sphinx and scorpions. If you mean, TKs having homes and familys or whatever? After being sandified a massive horde of goblins (because i never heard lore on these guys) came rampaging through thier rebuilt civilization. Where they were able to craft more of themselves. Maybe have all of the warrior made from the will of thier tomb king who are the only ones with enough since of self to expand themselves. No idea why we have to add logic to warhammer lore... when has that ever been a thing?? Cough http://theendlessdeserts.blogspot.com/ cough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 43 minutes ago, mmimzie said: Nah you could have for instance a khnore army ravaging a free people town, and how they formed some last minute militia to hold them off. We're only just seeing cities and towns being built in the realms so this might happen but not for some time. Not sure if you've read Gates of Azyr? It features small pockets of regular humans who know it's pointless to try and fight so live a life of endless fleeing. 43 minutes ago, mmimzie said: Its kind of like i want to know what death fights for other than just to fight. It'd be cool if TKs came back as more of a civilization where they are fighting for homes and families. Skeltons have families too you know. Can't see them coming back quite like that as Skeletons are largely incapable of thought (those that are fall into the Wight/Tomb King territory). I can see the immortal side of things growing however, so you've a ruling group of long-lived and immortal rulers who have legions of undead to build them cities, fortresses and other such things. One thing that I do think is that we (as in the community) are in a really good place to help shape factions, with home-grown battletomes and continuing supporting the factions we love (though sometimes turbulent periods) we demonstrate support and thus how successful a release would be. All we need is some well written unofficial battletomes - wonder where we'd get some of those? 6 minutes ago, Mengel Miniatures said: Cough http://theendlessdeserts.blogspot.com/ cough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 On 03/01/2017 at 7:24 AM, Nico said: One of the points about SCGT that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that it is a highly-narrative driven event - although it's still obviously one of the most hotly contested tournaments. I know that the TK are mentioned in the fluff as @Thomas Lyons has rightly pointed out. However, there's no getting around the fact that named characters popping up anachronistically (little Alarielle, the Green Knight, King Louis) do spoil the narrative for some people. Even Settra would seem somewhat anachronistic in AoS (hopefully one day he will return to the game in a new faction as has been speculated on widely - it would be amazing). Is this the solution then? Rather than a blanket ban of compendium only ban all 'old world' characters who are no longer with us and let people use the generic stuff. I could get on board with that approach as it fits fine with the wider narrative and doesn't take away armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Kills the chance of a return, though. IIRC Settra's head was left to watch over his empire as it was taken over, so he was still technically alive, just unable to do anything. A vengeful return would be epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord marcus Posted January 6, 2017 Author Share Posted January 6, 2017 37 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said: Kills the chance of a return, though. IIRC Settra's head was left to watch over his empire as it was taken over, so he was still technically alive, just unable to do anything. A vengeful return would be epic. The chaos gods reconstructed his body and told him to kill nagash. He laughed in thier face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Lord marcus said: The chaos gods reconstructed his body and told him to kill nagash. He laughed in thier face. I hope he survived, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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