Let's chat Grotz and Moonclan

[bsharitt]

5 hours ago, Malakree said:

To be honest my hope is that they release a brand new destruction battle-tome, Legions of Nagash style, which updates all the warscrolls, adds a bunch of battalions and introduces some cross faction allegiances. There really needs to be an allegiance which has Greenskins, Gitmob and Ardboys as battleline. 

If all we get is a single faction battle-tome I'll be sad. That having nothing to do with Moonclan being my least favourite of the Green Tribes....

I'm hoping for a Battletome Greenskins(not the faction Greenskinz) that basically covers the rest of destruction that isn't Ironjawz, Beastclaw Raiders, or Bonesplitterz. yeah, ogres and giants would be in there too and don't technically have greenskin, but the narrative portion of Malign Portents seems to keep lumping the orcs together with orcs and goblins.

I'd also like to see a Battletome Free Peoples that does the same thing for Order but with the misc humans, helves and dwarfs that don't have a good home and probably aren't getting one, maybe with wanderers and perhaps the rest of dark elves getting their own tome.

Then on the Chaos side, give Slaves to Darkness their battletome, do a Battletome Skaven that has the clans works similar to the Legions of Nagash, and then throw everything else in some kind of Forces of Chaos battletome that covers everything else in some kind of coherent force with the same "legion style" subforces.

Then everybody has a battletome and all the models(that they still make, get back in the cellar Tomb Kings) are now relevant, playable and have a place and fixes the weird stub factions that don't make any sense. At the rate they're cranking out 40k books, they could do 7 more for AoS.

[PlasticCraic]

I agree with the sentiment @bsharitt but if I'm splitting hairs, I haven't given up on Gutbusters getting their own love, so I'd personally prefer to see them kept separate 

But I totally agree with what you're saying.  We could be in a position (relatively quickly) where the GA abilities only have to be used by Mixed GA armies. 

I fully agree with the principle that you should be rewarded for taking an allegiance / punished for going Mixed GA as a trade off for casting the net wider.  But at the moment, there are too many factions (especially in Destruction) who have no option other than to use the GA stuff.

[bsharitt]

1 minute ago, PlasticCraic said:

I agree with the sentiment @bsharitt but if I'm splitting hairs, I haven't given up on Gutbusters getting their own love, so I'd personally prefer to see them kept separate 

But I totally agree with what you're saying.  We could be in a position (relatively quickly) where the GA abilities only have to be used by Mixed GA armies. 

I fully agree with the principle that you should be rewarded for taking an allegiance / punished for going Mixed GA as a trade off for casting the net wider.  But at the moment, there are too many factions (especially in Destruction) who have no option other than to use the GA stuff.

I would really like a Moonclan battle tome too, but I'd give that up in order to basically fix all the factions, especially if there's a "Moonclan(or Gutbuster) Legion" that has benefits for playing within a sub allegiance.

[Malakree]

27 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

I'm hoping for a Battletome Greenskins(not the faction Greenskinz) that basically covers the rest of destruction that isn't Ironjawz, Beastclaw Raiders, or Bonesplitterz. yeah, ogres and giants would be in there too and don't technically have greenskin, but the narrative portion of Malign Portents seems to keep lumping the orcs together with orcs and goblins.

Battletome "Rampaging Hordes" which covers all destruction factions. Ironjawz needs an update pretty badly and it's a tiny yet iconic part of the "greenskinz horde" being the original blackorcs. There are a couple of cross factions which could really do with having their own allegiances.

Great Waaagh!

• Combined forces of Gitmob and Greenskinz
• Weirdnob Shamans and Ardboys part of the alleigance
• Ardboys become battleline
• Any Gitmob or Greenskinz unit have +2 Bravery while within 10" of an Orruk Hero or Ardboy unit.
• Endless Green Tide: At the start of each of your hero phases you may add d3 models to any unit with the "Greenskinz" keyword or D6 to a unit with the "Gitmob" keyword.

Braggoths Beasthammer

• Goregruntas and Mournfang gain Battleline
• Can only take Orruk or Ogor units with an initial move statistic of at least 7"
• All Orruk units gain +1 to hit while within 6" of an Ogor unit
• All Ogor units gain +1 to hit while within 6" of an Orruk unit
• Heroes have +1 wound and count themselves as having taken 1 less wound when working out their Monster Bracket (don't know what this is called)

Forces of the Little Waagh!

• Only units with the Grot or Squig keyword can be taken. (All squigs given the Squig keyword)
• Sneaky (or just lucky):  Any Hero within 6" of a none Hero unit rolls a D6 when a Wound or Mortal Wound is inflicted on them on a 2+ that unit takes a mortal wound instead, no saves of any kind are allowed against this wound.
• Oi' Get Outta Da Way: Any of your units may move through your units with the Grot keyword as if they weren't there, if either unit has the Squig, Spiderfang or Monster keywords then the other unit takes d3 wounds after the move is completed. All other movement restrictions apply.
• Quick Runaway: Whenever you make a retreat move double the distance you can move that movement

Obviously there are other options, but those just bounce off the top of my head as obvious once. We'd also need 3 new magic lores, Lore of the Big Waagh!, Lore of the Little Waagh! and Lore of the Great Devourer (Ogors).

[Warboss Gorbolg]

Since we're wishlisting, I'd prefer to a little less consolidation than others but something like...

Stand alone Moonclan

Combined Greenskinz and Gitmob that are higher tech and "compete" with Skaven, Ironweld, KO, etc.

Combined Gutbusters, Maneaters, and Firebellies.  Lose the tired/boring gluttony theme and find a new theme 

A way to upgrade Troggoths and Gargants to be leaders within an allegiance 

[HappyCultist]

22 hours ago, Imperial said:

New battletome incoming? Allegaince - moonclan grots

 

 

Btw. Are they hiding the Fanatics in Squig units? Guess the Hoppers would work. But the cave squigs? Am I missing something? 

[PlasticCraic]

1 hour ago, HappyCultist said:

Btw. Are they hiding the Fanatics in Squig units? Guess the Hoppers would work. But the cave squigs? Am I missing something? 

Technically they don't have to hide at all.  Obviously this is wasting a lot of their utility, but I don't think these are meant to be optimised lists?

[Imperial]

28 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Obviously this is wasting a lot of their utility, but I don't think these are meant to be optimised lists?

I think it's list like "Hei ppl's! You can play grots like this!" and nothing more 

[Imperial]

8 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

Since we're wishlisting, I'd prefer to a little less consolidation than others but something like...

Stand alone Moonclan

Combined Greenskinz and Gitmob that are higher tech and "compete" with Skaven, Ironweld, KO, etc.

Combined Gutbusters, Maneaters, and Firebellies.  Lose the tired/boring gluttony theme and find a new theme 

A way to upgrade Troggoths and Gargants to be leaders within an allegiance 

As i remember now in books current leaders of Waaagh are bonesplitterz and ironjawz. I hope if book of Waaagh will come out we will get abilities depends of current leader of Waaagh and some cool battalions for this like Braggoths Beasthammer. It's realy cool what you can take ironjawz units to destruction battalion, but i think we need more battalions like this.

[meet.the.doctor]

4 hours ago, HappyCultist said:

Btw. Are they hiding the Fanatics in Squig units? Guess the Hoppers would work. But the cave squigs? Am I missing something? 

You can hide fanatics unit in another fanatics unit (there need to be at least 5 moonclan grots), so it is possible to release all 3 units from one hopper unit.

[HappyCultist]

6 hours ago, meet.the.doctor said:

You can hide fanatics unit in another fanatics unit (there need to be at least 5 moonclan grots), so it is possible to release all 3 units from one hopper unit.

Thats some funky Alfa... Beta Strike strategy you got there. 

-One Hopper unit. I'll squish that with my might Hammer. Chaaarge! 

Boom. 18 fanatics appear. 

-Well. I'm fuu... 

 

Need too try that

[bsharitt]

So got my fungoid cave shaman assembled Wednesday, primed Thursday, and painted today and got in his first game this evening. I was playing an intro game with a new guy at very low points so I didn't get to see his full potential, but some thoughts anyway. I didn't get to use his new command ability because I was playing Khorne, so getting into combat was no issue and an inspiring presence to keep my goblins from running away was more pressing. For the most part, he was a grot shaman, except he's not totally useless in combat. The 5+ to ignore damage along with with spore squig giving enemies a -1 to hit kept him in alive an extra turn, which meant he got an extra inspiring presence and a mystic shield off of my grots unit, meaning they stayed around an extra turn before getting eaten by blood warriors. He was okayish in combat, certainly better than the normal shaman who's barely even doing wounds half the time. And in the great tradition of technically worse profile pets and mounts, the spore squig did more damage that his sickle, biting Korghos Khul twice, helping the rest of my squigs take him down. For the same point cost he's probably a no brainier to replace one shaman if you're running more than one. If you only have one and he's not getting up close and personal, which mine probably wouldn't be if I wasn't playing such a small game, Curse of da bad moon might still make the old shaman worth it depending on how your army is built, but I suspect the run and charge could be situationally pretty neat. At the end of the day I'd say the choice between him and a regular shaman is choice between backfield or frontline support. Really, I'd say he might be more of a replacement for a warboss than a shaman with the benefit of being a shaman. Also as far as the hobby aspect goes, he's a fantastic model and a lot of fun to paint(I've really loved paint all my grots to be honest, they're so much fun).

[Malakree]

One question I do have, is the cave shaman unique or could i put 2 in my army? Specifically looking because I have 100 points of float in my ironjawz list and thinking a second one of them beats out the other contenders...

Also just accidentally found https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-savage-orruk-shaman-en.pdf wish that warscroll was still an option  

[bsharitt]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

One question I do have, is the cave shaman unique or could i put 2 in my army? Specifically looking because I have 100 points of float in my ironjawz list and thinking a second one of them beats out the other contenders...

Also just accidentally found https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-savage-orruk-shaman-en.pdf wish that warscroll was still an option  

He's not unique. In the store, the heralds all have names, but that's just for narrative flair and neither the warscroll nor the matched point profile has anything about being unique.

[Malakree]

8 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

He's not unique. In the store, the heralds all have names, but that's just for narrative flair and neither the warscroll nor the matched point profile has anything about being unique.

Cool, so that's both other grot shamans rendered irrelevant since, other than his spells, he has both their unique bonuses without the downsides they have built in....

[Sheriff]

I see 2 uses for him:

• Replacement Moonclan general, still likely to die. Decent at 1000pts but a liability on 2000pt. 
• Decent second shaman, less likely to die than a regular second Moonclan shaman - basically a mystic shield bot. 

The run and charge thing seems unlikely to be that useful as I like my grots to reach combat together mostly. But retreat and charge could be great in say turn 2-3 when your murderous 60 grot unit has almost killed a large unit but it would be overkill to finish them off, so you just run 8-12 inches and slaughter a much bigger threat instead. 

Keeps that murder-train rolling rather than being stuck in an inefficient combat. 

But having said all this I'd still rather a much tougher general to lead my dudes, e.g. the spiderfang hero or an arachnarok; if you're gunna have an inspiring presence general he may as well be tough enough to last a few turns. 

[Malakree]

46 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

I see 2 uses for him:

• Replacement Moonclan general, still likely to die. Decent at 1000pts but a liability on 2000pt. 
• Decent second shaman, less likely to die than a regular second Moonclan shaman - basically a mystic shield bot. 

From the perspective of someone who is primarily an Ironjawz player, but slowly branching out to other forms of green, he's a better version of the other Grot Shamans.

• He has the gitmob sneaky (or just lucky) rule but it doesn't have any restrictions or offload the wound.
• The Mushroom gives you the double cast rather than a +2 (with a 1/6 chance to mystical him) though the normal moonclan can pop it everyturn so is better as a second
• Being at a flat -1 to hit from range is MASSIVE, a whole bunch of stuff no longer inflicts mortals on 6.
• His unique spell isn't great but most of the time you will be doing mystic shield anyway. 
• Sneaky Stabbin is fantastic but highly situational.
• Curse of the Bad Moon is awful for casting value of 8+

One of the biggest things every Destruction faction, other than bonesplitterz, needs is to have it's spell casting values fixed. Curse of years is a 6+ and is easily better than CotBM, ****** foot of gork is CV 10+. Hell the skin starpriest has a CV 6 spell which which inflicts -1 to hit,  Compare the destruction spells to the battlemage spells, we get so ****** on the CV of all our spells.

[Sheriff]

5 minutes ago, Malakree said:

From the perspective of someone who is primarily an Ironjawz player, but slowly branching out to other forms of green, he's a better version of the other Grot Shamans.

• He has the gitmob sneaky (or just lucky) rule but it doesn't have any restrictions or offload the wound.
• The Mushroom gives you the double cast rather than a +2 (with a 1/6 chance to mystical him) though the normal moonclan can pop it everyturn so is better as a second
• Being at a flat -1 to hit from range is MASSIVE, a whole bunch of stuff no longer inflicts mortals on 6.
• His unique spell isn't great but most of the time you will be doing mystic shield anyway. 
• Sneaky Stabbin is fantastic but highly situational.
• Curse of the Bad Moon is awful for casting value of 8+

One of the biggest things every Destruction faction, other than bonesplitterz, needs is to have it's spell casting values fixed. Curse of years is a 6+ and is easily better than CotBM, ****** foot of gork is CV 10+. Hell the skin starpriest has a CV 6 spell which which inflicts -1 to hit,  Compare the destruction spells to the battlemage spells, we get so ****** on the CV of all our spells.

I think we are agreeing? he's decent and less easy to shoot at, worth including in your army but probably not as general? 

[Freejack02]

Question about Moonclan Grot netters - is there still no limit on how many a unit can contain? I thought I saw it was "fixed" ages ago to a max number per 10, but now cannot find any information to reflect this. Is the only limitation the availability of netter models?

[Malakree]

8 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Question about Moonclan Grot netters - is there still no limit on how many a unit can contain? I thought I saw it was "fixed" ages ago to a max number per 10, but now cannot find any information to reflect this. Is the only limitation the availability of netter models?

It's in an faq and it's 3 per 20 I believed 

[Freejack02]

10 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It's in an faq and it's 3 per 20 I believed 

Yeah, it's the Destruction FAQ and Errata v1.2 as it turns out. Thanks

[PlasticCraic]

23 hours ago, Sheriff said:

I think we are agreeing? he's decent and less easy to shoot at, worth including in your army but probably not as general? 

I'm actually planning on using him as my general this weekend in a non-competitive event 

 

It's a 1000 point, 3-game casual tournament and my list will be:

Cave Shaman (General, +1 to Mighty Destroyers)

Maw Krusha (Hammerblade)

 

10x Greenskinz

10x Greenskinz

 

Wolf Chariot

 

Spear Chukka

Spear Chukka

 

1000 on the nose

 

It’s a bit of a daft list, completely based around getting as many charges as possible out of the Maw Krusha, including hero phase charges if possible.  It could be quite difficult since that huge base has to be wholly within 18” - although he can retreat back to within range of the Shaman if required.  And the spear chukkas are there to soften up targets and facilitate On Da Rampage too!

 

Not something that I think will be super competitive, but I'm looking forward to using the new guy and I think this is the perfect opportunity.

[Josh]

im toying around with the idea to make a little gitmob list thats fairly cheesy haha, signature spell the grots, skulkers in a unit of wolf riders and buff them if they need it, spear chukka stuff off & magma dragons to distract & kill big stuff 

will struggle if people remove scoring units but idk i feel like it would create some hard choices for an opponent, kill magma's but stay away from chukkas

 

thoughts? (also not super sure on how to equip the heros as i dont have my GHB at work)

 

Allegiance: Destruction
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
- General
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
40 x Gitmob Grots (200)
- Bows & Slashas
5 x Grot Wolf Riders (100)
- Slittas & Wolf Bows
5 x Grot Wolf Riders (100)
- Slittas & Wolf Bows
3 x Nasty Skulkers (40)
Magma Dragon (520)
Magma Dragon (520)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000

[PlasticCraic]

59 minutes ago, Josh said:

im toying around with the idea to make a little gitmob list thats fairly cheesy haha, signature spell the grots, skulkers in a unit of wolf riders and buff them if they need it, spear chukka stuff off & magma dragons to distract & kill big stuff 

will struggle if people remove scoring units but idk i feel like it would create some hard choices for an opponent, kill magma's but stay away from chukkas

 

thoughts? (also not super sure on how to equip the heros as i dont have my GHB at work)

 

Allegiance: Destruction
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
- General
Gitmob Grot Shaman (80)
40 x Gitmob Grots (200)
- Bows & Slashas
5 x Grot Wolf Riders (100)
- Slittas & Wolf Bows
5 x Grot Wolf Riders (100)
- Slittas & Wolf Bows
3 x Nasty Skulkers (40)
Magma Dragon (520)
Magma Dragon (520)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000

I like the list, but is this matched play legal?

With Gitmob allegiance you are (way) above your Allies points, but with GA Destruction you only have one Battleline (Gitmob Grots)?

[Josh]

ah valid points! just swap it out for more gitmob grots then