sal4m4nd3r Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 +++ Zombiessssss (1340pts) +++ Necromancer (120pts) Necromancer (120pts) Vampire Lord (140pts) Zombies x 30 (180pts) Zombies x 30 (180pts) Zombies x 30 (180pts) Zombies x 30 (180pts) Morghast Archai (240pts) this is meant to be a fun list that I would like to win with every once in a while. I would also like to bring this to a friendly local 1500. Tournament. Again as a fun list… But I'd also like to not lose every game I play >_< I still have 160 points to either add a couple corpse carts??.. Or a unit of vargheists?? to fly up the board and harass units or support the archai until the horde can schamble up field. Which would be better? Is it too many zombies or too few? I feel like I could go in either direction. The plan is to start with 90 zombies on the board with 30 and my reserve pool to either summon on objectives, bolster units that have taken losses, or to block charges and other strategic trick-er-ation. other than to double dip the necromancers ability to have a unit piling in and attacking twice with the vampire Lord's +1 attack command ability (blood feast), is there any reason to ever choose a necromancer over more vampire Lords?? ANY help would be very much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 If in matched play you could only cast vdm once, so although two necromancers would be good to have them in the right position, you will only get one unit each turn piling in and attacking twice. In this case it better to go with larger units so that the spell would go off on more models? Or maybe it is worth going for another vampire as they could use their command ability more than once (I.e. Two VL's could give two units +1 attack each turn) Id be tempted to go with the corpse carts, but this is purely theoryhammer, I do get that the army lacks mobility though. I really want to make a zombie horde, bet this is much fun to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Ah, the zombie rape train... I still wake up screaming at night. So filthy... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lad Von Carstein Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I'd be tempted to take the zombies in units of 40 so you can take a few casulties and still make the most of "Dragged down and torn apart". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 12 hours ago, Sadysaneto said: Ah, the zombie rape train... I still wake up screaming at night. So filthy... lol Is ther....is there something you want to tell us? Its okay. This is a safe place. 12 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said: If in matched play you could only cast vdm once, so although two necromancers would be good to have them in the right position, you will only get one unit each turn piling in and attacking twice. In this case it better to go with larger units so that the spell would go off on more models? Or maybe it is worth going for another vampire as they could use their command ability more than once (I.e. Two VL's could give two units +1 attack each turn) I had never thought about that! I haveent every played a game with two leaders with two command abilities. I would have assumed only one command ability a turn...I figured the second necro would summon or mystic shield, while one VDM's. But it seems WAY better two have 2 vampire lords rather then two necros. Either way I feel like with this many zomBROS to herd, having three wizards is important. 12 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said: Id be tempted to go with the corpse carts, but this is purely theoryhammer, I do get that the army lacks mobility though. I really want to make a zombie horde, bet this is much fun to play Being fun to play is the key. Thanks for your help!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 40 zombies, a vampire lord and a necromancer, means 2 x 80 rolls. They ripped my gruntas and brutes apart. it was brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 No, you can only use one command ability per turn. You only have one general. The army is very slow, so I would switch some Zombies out for Dire Wolves. They can be used for a number of different things, for example act as screens for your big Zombie blocks, harass and flank the enemy, or run for objectives. I would also take out one Necromancer and go for a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon. You could run something like this: Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon Vampire Lord Necromancer 30 Zombies 20 Zombies 10 Zombies 5 Dire Wolves 5 Dire Wolves Corpse Cart 2 Morghast Archai You start off by merging the 20- and 10-man Zombie units. With this list you would end up with a few fast units, a few units with quality attacks and two horde units that can put out the hurt against an unwary enemy. You also have a lot of magic, that is further boosted by the Corpse Cart. Before running this list in a tournament, check with the organizer if they allow you to merge two units into a new one. You could also drop the Dire Wolves, and reserve the 120 points for summoning. That way you could bring in more Zombies to bolster your hordes, Dire Wolves to do what Dire Wolves do, or something else that you feel like bringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 Thanks for the ideas. But only 60 zombies is just not enough. I want a ****** horde! I'm NOT dipping below 90. Also the VLoZD doesn't interest me. It's a ****** load of points and in my experience the big monsters don't make their points back. Why would I have to ask a TO if. I can use an ability on a warscroll? If I wanted to run all 120 zombies in one unit I could and they couldn't do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hehe, alright. A strong army with a minimum of 90 Zombies is hard to design at 1500 points, but I hope you do well =) Big monsters don't have to make their points back by killing things. They can make their worth by providing utility and strengthening the rest of your army. If you aren't interested in it though, then of course you leave it out. Regarding the warscroll ability, you are wrong. Since, in Matched Play, a unit can never be larger than it's starting size, there are two ways to interpret Shambling Horde. 1: Two units, that started out at 10 models, can merge. When they do, they create a NEW unit with a starting size of 20. 2: Two units that started out at 10 models can not merge, because the merged unit would be larger than both their starting sizes. In order to merge the units, you first have to lose 5 or more models in each, so that the size of the merged unit does not go above 10 models. Which interpretation is valid is up to the TO until GW FAQs the issue. And either way, you could not run all 120 Zombies in one unit, because Zombies have a maximum size of 60 models. Check page 106 of the General's Handbook for the rule, and page 135 for the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Solaris said: Hehe, alright. A strong army with a minimum of 90 Zombies is hard to design at 1500 points, but I hope you do well =) Big monsters don't have to make their points back by killing things. They can make their worth by providing utility and strengthening the rest of your army. If you aren't interested in it though, then of course you leave it out. Regarding the warscroll ability, you are wrong. Since, in Matched Play, a unit can never be larger than it's starting size, there are two ways to interpret Shambling Horde. 1: Two units, that started out at 10 models, can merge. When they do, they create a NEW unit with a starting size of 20. 2: Two units that started out at 10 models can not merge, because the merged unit would be larger than both their starting sizes. In order to merge the units, you first have to lose 5 or more models in each, so that the size of the merged unit does not go above 10 models. Which interpretation is valid is up to the TO until GW FAQs the issue. And either way, you could not run all 120 Zombies in one unit, because Zombies have a maximum size of 60 models. Check page 106 of the General's Handbook for the rule, and page 135 for the unit. No, they ca merge and the maximum number is the new one. You don't go over the maximum limit of models of the unit. The unit after merging is a new unit with a new number of member maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Just now, deynon said: No, they ca merge and the maximum number is the new one. You don't go over the maximum limit of models of the unit. The unit after merging is a new unit with a new number of member maximum. That is your opinion, and I agree with you. However, there are others that think differently, and ultimately it is up to the tournament organizer to decide how the rules are interpreted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 I'm not being rude here. I re-read my previous comment and It came across like that.. and I'm sorry. Yeah I dont see how anyone could interpret it any other way then what deyon said. They merge and make a completely new unit. The maximum unit size (say its 120 now) cant go exceeded. So Say I take 5 causalities, and the unit is now 115. I roll a 6 next turn for the banner.. I cant put down 6 models. Only 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said: I'm not being rude here. I re-read my previous comment and It came across like that.. and I'm sorry. Yeah I dont see how anyone could interpret it any other way then what deyon said. They merge and make a completely new unit. The maximum unit size (say its 120 now) cant go exceeded. So Say I take 5 causalities, and the unit is now 115. I roll a 6 next turn for the banner.. I cant put down 6 models. Only 5. Yes, I agree that this is how it should be. However, enough people interpret it the other way that it is worth asking a TO in advance. Better than to show up and be disappointed because you are not allowed to play your list the way you want. However, I still don't think you can ever exceed the maximum unit size, which is 60 for Zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Solaris said: That is your opinion, and I agree with you. However, there are others that think differently, and ultimately it is up to the tournament organizer to decide how the rules are interpreted. They are simply the rules of the unit. Surely it has to be asked to the TO organizers, but if they say no I start to dubt about their preparation, moreover it should be said in advance in theirinfopack cause it change the rules of the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 9 hours ago, Solaris said: No, you can only use one command ability per turn. You only have one general. That moment when you realise you've been playing the whole hero phase wrong. Oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronhammer NZ Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 The zombies thing in Matched Play needs an FAQ. Make sure you query your TO well beforehand if you intend to use that trick. 1. Are you increasing the unit size of both units you are merging? If so, you cannot exceed the starting size of either unit. Or, 2. Are you creating a new unit? Are you replacing the original units? In which case do you need to spend Reinforcement Points? Does your opponent score points for the two units that no longer exist? Murky waters! I think there is a thread on it in the rules forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 6 hours ago, Tronhammer NZ said: The zombies thing in Matched Play needs an FAQ. Make sure you query your TO well beforehand if you intend to use that trick. 1. Are you increasing the unit size of both units you are merging? If so, you cannot exceed the starting size of either unit. Or, 2. Are you creating a new unit? Are you replacing the original units? In which case do you need to spend Reinforcement Points? Does your opponent score points for the two units that no longer exist? Murky waters! I think there is a thread on it in the rules forums. Yeah, how the interaction between Shambling Horde and the General's Handbook works out is anything but set in stone. Acting like there is only one valid interpretation is not going to do anyone any favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 How about this list to have a bit more teeth.. LeadersNecromancer (120)Vampire Lord (140)- General- Trait: Ruler of the Night- Artefact: Ring of ImmortalityUnitsZombies x 40 (240)Zombies x 40 (240)Zombies x 20 (120)Morghast Archai x 2 (240)Behemoths MourngulTotal: 1500/1500 The 20 zombies are my summoning pool for objectives, roadblocks, bolstering blobs that take a thumping. Necro hangs back and buffs the zombies from the shadows. Vampire lord will roll will buff zombros and hop in a fight with morghasts as well. Mourngul goes after a desirable target. thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 It's better, but I still think you could really do with a Corpse Cart and some Dire Wolves in there. You're also awfully thin on leaders. Regarding the artefact, I think there are better options for the Vampire Lord. If you want the Ring of Immortality, it would be better to give it to the Necromancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxk Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I think the corpse car is worth it! If you calculat it, going from 3+ to hit to 2+, halfes the amount of dice you fail, so effectively doubeling you damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sej Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Try swapping your leaders for this Konrad 100 Heinrich 160 Necromancer 120 Konrad is a nasty little fighter and for magic heavy list his comand ability will almost garantee you get your spells off. Hienrich is my favourite undead character, put him in a unit of zombies and he is very unlikely to die. Passing wounds on to them on a 2+. His sword does maximum of 4 wounds a turn and for each model he kills on a 2+ he adds an extra zombie to your unit. He can also cast two spells i use him to summon then slap an arcane shield on who ever needs it. Oh and he can teleport 2d6 at the start of your hero phase perfect for getting him where he needs to be fast or escape trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Which spell are you using to add models to existing units? Sounds handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 19 minutes ago, Carnelian said: Which spell are you using to add models to existing units? Sounds handy. They're just Summoning units and adding them to the squad using Shambling Horde, presumably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 16 hours ago, Sej said: Try swapping your leaders for this Konrad 100 Heinrich 160 Necromancer 120 Konrad is a nasty little fighter and for magic heavy list his comand ability will almost garantee you get your spells off. Hienrich is my favourite undead character, put him in a unit of zombies and he is very unlikely to die. Passing wounds on to them on a 2+. His sword does maximum of 4 wounds a turn and for each model he kills on a 2+ he adds an extra zombie to your unit. He can also cast two spells i use him to summon then slap an arcane shield on who ever needs it. Oh and he can teleport 2d6 at the start of your hero phase perfect for getting him where he needs to be fast or escape trouble. In this case i think the Vamp lord is simply the best leader. He gives you another wizard, Ruler of the night which is bonkers on zombies, and +1 attack to alll your zombies which i think is the strongest unit you could get a +1 attack bonus. Though i general dont like special characters so i might be more salty to the idea than i should haha. Edit: Vamplord on Abyssall as an odd on maybe over archai or something could give your whole army increased threat range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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