AoS Cities of Sigmar Battletome 2023 Discussion

[Satyrical Sophist]

9 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 

Having a Steam Tank or two is genuinely a defensible option, but not for their ranged damage output alone. They shoot OK, though. Same for the Scourgerunner and possibly the Gyrocopters.

Everything else seems like incidental shooting, not real damage dealers. You can slap a unit of Darkshards in a list as a ranged screen that does, like, 3 damage per round. Or you can run a unit of Wildercorps Hunters just to push them onto terrain near an objective so that the opponent has to come down there to remove them. But none of the units not mentioned above have the potential to deal serious ranged damage.

In my opinion: Be happy with the good shooting you can get out of that first Fusilier unit, build the rest of the army as melee.

A trio of scourgerunner chariots is actually more damage than you might think with fleetmaster buff. This is the output for a unit of three with AoA from a fleetmaster, which is pretty close on a points base to the flaming fusiliers. I've not factored in the fleetmaster in the points efficiency though, because I think you have him primarily for Corsairs, which the scourgerunner buff being incidental.

 

0+ 2.74,   1+  4.59,   2+  6.44,   3+   9.19,   4+  11.93,    5+ 14.67,    6+ 15.56,    7+ 16.44.

 

If it happens to be vs a monster it jumps.

0+ 3.67,  1+  6.44,   2+  9.22,  3+  12.89,   4+  16.56,   5+  20.22,  6+    21.11,   7+   22.00.

[Colonic]

Hammerers, Scourgerunners, Drakespawn Chariots + Knights and the Tenebral Blades spell are what I tend to think of when people say that the rules of non humans in Cities are undercooked. 

I actually think the book is just designed to give non human forces supporting roles that require less (not zero) synergies. The best tanky infantry are the duardin and even irondrakes shine when supporting holding a point with their better unleash hell. The best offensive punch is found among the aelves. That is not a book that is cycling those units out of use.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Colonic said:

Hammerers, Scourgerunners, Drakespawn Chariots + Knights and the Tenebral Blades spell are what I tend to think of when people say that the rules of non humans in Cities are undercooked. 

I actually think the book is just designed to give non human forces supporting roles that require less (not zero) synergies. The best tanky infantry are the duardin and even irondrakes shine when supporting holding a point with their better unleash hell. The best offensive punch is found among the aelves. That is not a book that is cycling those units out of use.

Very much agreed on the role of elves and dwarves as supporting units in this book. I think a human core with elf/dwarf auxiliaries should work very well. Both have a lot to offer that humans can't easily replicate on their own, but struggle to field a full list without humans.

I would also add the Sorceress and Blackguard to the category of good units. Pairing these two units makes them self-sufficient: They both get that 4+ ward and the Sorceress can cast Tenebrael Blades to give the Black Guard some good punch. Just sacrificing a Black Guard for the cast bonus if you need it seems better to me than dragging around another extra 90 points of Dreadspears or whatever.

Maybe a hot take, but I don't super love the Scourge Privateers in the Tenebrael Blades combo. They get a lot of attacks, of course, but the combo seems really easy to disrupt if they are your main buff recipient unit. It's not possible to easily snipe heroes anymore, but it seems to me like most lists should be able to snipe a 5+ save unit. Also, the combo gets very complex if you go all the way with it: Privateers, Fleetmaster, Sorceress, Darkling Covens unit to sacrifice... That's a lot of easily disruptible moving parts.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

5 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I like a unit of Ironbreakers with a supporting hero. 3+, 4+ save is a proper anvil.

Yeah, looks like you can take a specialist detachment of Dwarfs for ~300/400 pts for a very specific role (Ironbreaker anvil, Hammerer melee push). I think that's worth looking into imo.

But for me, the best Dwarf to mix around CoS is Gotrek ! I look forward to bringing mine in 2000 pts games (the only reason I got him is because 480 pts in a 30€ package is a great points-money conversion, but he's also quite good ! Just gotta watch for things that turn off wards).

Edited September 8, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Yeah, looks like you can take a specialist detachment of Dwarfs for ~300/400 pts for a very specific role (Ironbreaker anvil, Hammerer melee push). I think that's worth looking into imo.

But for me, the best Dwarf to mix around CoS is Gotrek ! I look forward to bringing mine in 2000 pts games (the only reason I got him is because 480 pts in a 30€ package is a great points-money conversion, but he's also quite good ! Just gotta watch for things that turn of wards).

Calculating the efficiency of Gotrek vs. a unit of Hammerers with support might be an interesting exercise. He can't score you battle tactics, but he's definitely a very hard to kill hammer unit. He's definitely got the painting efficiency metrics on lock: Having to paint one guy instead of 20 is hard to beat.

 

[Doko]

6 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

They Unleash Hell a lot better than fusiliers

this is wrong,irondrakes shoots half also with units in 3", so their unleah hell is horrible and almost 0 damage

Edited September 8, 2023 by Doko

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 minutes ago, Doko said:

this is wrong,irondrakes shoots half also with units in 3", so their unleah hell is horrible and almost 0 damage

Big oof. Poor dwarfs.

I guess you can still Unleash at full strength if you are between 3" and 6" away from the charging unit, but it certainly does not make the unit easier to use.

Spoiler

Unleash Hell These warriors have prepared their missile weapons so they can unleash a devastating volley at the last possible moment.   You can use this command ability after an enemy unit finishes a charge move. The unit that receives the command must be within 6" of that enemy unit and more than 3" from all other enemy units. Models in the unit that receives the command that are within 6" of the target unit can shoot in that phase, but when they do so, you must subtract 1 from hit rolls for their attacks and they can only target the unit that made the charge move.

 

[Doko]

yes for sure,if you can get the irondrakes with their 15" in range of the enemy unit and betwen 6 and 3" then yes,but skilled enemy players wont do this misstake.

usually they gonna be inside of 3" or outside of 6"

also i never have saw irombreakers as a good tank unit,shieldwall being only in enemy melle phase make it pretty useless.

for only 10 extra points the blackguards are so far better than ironbreakers with a save 4 and ward4 allways and not only in enemy combat,and meanwhile doing 50% more damage than dwarfs and with rend.

to me is a no brainer if i have to choose betwen ironbreakers and blackguards,dwarfs are a 2/10 and blackguards 8/10

[Doko]

8 hours ago, Beliman said:

Take in mind that numbers are just numbers. A few weeks ago, you did some maths for Grdunstock Thunderers and the result was that they were a bad unit for their points and damage (even fully buffed). 

So, Grundstock Thunderers are still the most KO used unit, doing the most damage and defending objectives in most KO games.

That's my point: numbers are good to understand most of the units, but they are not the whole picture. I'm sure that Grundstock Thunderers would be shelf'ed in any other army.

yes numbers are just numbers,but they never lie and are acurate.

and yes i said unbufed thunderers are bad for their cost,is a fact and is true.

but buffed thunderers numbers are diferents and make them good,also the utility/movility and extra tankiness from the ship.

 

thats my point, is as fussilers,their unbufed numbers are horrible,but buffed they are ok.

the problem with irondrakes is that their unbufed number is bad and they have 0 buffs available, so nothing gonna change that they are bad as happened with fussilers and thunderers

[Doko]

5 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I am working under the assumption that this is a mistake and will be errata'd. Otherwise, you are right, this is a significant downside

yup in fact i sent some emails to the faq team with this:

 

first errata is in page 143, the warscroll of the unit dwarfs hammerers dont have champion,standard bearer neither musician when they have all this in the unit,so need be fixed because its a errata

 

second errata in page 127 the warscroll of the freeguild marshal his shield is missing and havent stats

 

also page 143 the irondrakes have other errata,the gromrhill armor is missing(+1 save against shooting)

 

 

 

 

 

[Satyrical Sophist]

11 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Big oof. Poor dwarfs.

I guess you can still Unleash at full strength if you are between 3" and 6" away from the charging unit, but it certainly does not make the unit easier to use.

  Hide contents

Unleash Hell These warriors have prepared their missile weapons so they can unleash a devastating volley at the last possible moment.   You can use this command ability after an enemy unit finishes a charge move. The unit that receives the command must be within 6" of that enemy unit and more than 3" from all other enemy units. Models in the unit that receives the command that are within 6" of the target unit can shoot in that phase, but when they do so, you must subtract 1 from hit rolls for their attacks and they can only target the unit that made the charge move.

 

Yeah, you are going to want screening units for them, which does add to the cost. One of the reasons I like corsairs is as a screen that can inflict some mortal wounds on the enemy as they go down, while also being a target to buff up with ten blades if you get an opportunity. 

 

Ironbreakers are behind black guard in my own personal rankings, but a 3 up save shouldn't be underestimated, particularly since you can AoD and Mystic shield on top of it. 3+ being able to get to 2+ can be pretty nuts. You do have access to the -1 to be wounded prayer as well. The sorceress can also do a -1 to wound, but that works on enemy units, rather than your own and is considerably more enemy dependant. 

I think direct comparisons can be a bit wrong here. Even if black guard are OVERALL better they have advantages and disadvantages and also lock you into a sorceress (who I think is a fantastic unit, don't get me wrong) if you want the ward save. 

[Doko]

8 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

lock you into a sorceress (who I think is a fantastic unit, don't get me wrong) if you want the ward save. 

hnnn dont irombreakers lock you on a runelord also?(because enginer is the worst hero of entire aos and runeking dont have any use of he isnt your general)

so is the same combo, irombreakers+runelord vs blackguard+sorceres but sorceres  is better than runelord by a big gap and blackguards better than ironbreakers in almost every situation also(more damage and with rend,better tankiness in our combat phase,enemy shooting and enemy magic and only worse by a small +1 save in enemy combat phase)

also the dwarf combo need one order while the elf not,and is free of choose one order while dwarf is locked to shieldwall if we are speaking about tankiness

Edited September 8, 2023 by Doko

[Satyrical Sophist]

17 minutes ago, Doko said:

yup in fact i sent some emails to the faq team with this:

 

first errata is in page 143, the warscroll of the unit dwarfs hammerers dont have champion,standard bearer neither musician when they have all this in the unit,so need be fixed because its a errata

 

second errata in page 127 the warscroll of the freeguild marshal his shield is missing and havent stats

 

also page 143 the irondrakes have other errata,the gromrhill armor is missing(+1 save against shooting)

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately I think there is a good chance none of that is errata. I've had a look through the book and every time you see Hammerer's appear in the art they don't have a command squad. I think this might be a deliberate choice they made. If thats the case its a shame, but there is a sort of thematic sense to it.

I don't think the shield has rules, might just be a look thing.

As for the iron drakes defence against shooting, I think that is also an intended removal, they already have 2 different unit rules, and they've been cutting down on them.

 

10 minutes ago, Doko said:

hnnn dont irombreakers lock you on a runelord also?(because enginer is the worst hero of entire aos and runeking dont have any use of he isnt your general)

so is the same combo, irombreakers+runelord vs blackguard+sorceres but sorceres  is better than runelord by a big gap and blackguards better than ironbreakers in almost every situation also(more damage and with rend,better tankiness in our combat phase,enemy shooting and enemy magic and only worse by a small +1 save in enemy combat phase)

also the dwarf combo need one order while the elf not,and is free of choose one order while dwarf is locked to shieldwall if we are speaking about tankiness

As I said, I think black guard are probably better. They are more locked into a buffing piece than the ironbreakers though. Iron breakers can be buffed by a rune lord directly, but you could have that runelord buffing Iron Drakes instead, or buffing hammerers and hanging back close enough to the Iron breakers to still order them. The opponent doesn't know whether the runelords order is going to be shieldwall or counter charge. There are definite builds with the warden king working with hammerers as well, where he is there and can potentially order. I do agree that the cogsmith is fully underwhelming, he should definitely be cheaper, acting as a budget dwarf hero.

I think you need to stop looking at things in such a simplified top trumps, it achieves nothing and only really makes people who like the non optimal option feel bad. 

[Doko]

41 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

They are more locked into a buffing piece than the ironbreakers though. Iron breakers can be buffed by a rune lord directly, but you could have that runelord buffing Iron Drakes instead, or buffing hammerers and hanging back close enough to the Iron breakers to still order them. The opponent doesn't know whether the runelords order is going to be shieldwall or counter charge. There are definite builds with the warden king working with hammerers as well, where he is there and can potentially order. I do agree that the cogsmith is fully underwhelming, he should definitely be cheaper, acting as a budget dwarf hero

i dont get what u mean,soceres can also buff to other diferent unit while giving the ward to blackguards and better even can even debuff enemy to give a indirect buff to non elf units where runelord only can buff dwarfs,also enemy dont know what order gonna give the sorceres where if you see a ironbreaker in a objetive together a dwarf you know that he gonna do the shieldwall.

41 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

think you need to stop looking at things in such a simplified top trumps, it achieves nothing and only really makes people who like the non optimal option feel bad

again i dont get it,what u meaning. we are speaking about the more competitive options,whats the point in speak about how ironbreakers can be used as shield,or how a sorceress can do one spell,or the artillery can be used to shoot!?

everyone know these things,usually the point to discuss is what are the best units for each role.

also i dont get because i gonna do feel bad to persons that dont like the non optimal option,they gonna feel better spending 300€ in their non optimal units thinking that they are good and then get destroyed in every game and dont have fun?

here in my club i am asked for many players about the best unit to buy to be competitive etc and maybe i have got a habit to be too much white and black about each unit.

i myself i have used a full dispossesed army for 8 years (not in tournaments) and i never felt bad when other players said how bad were the dwarfs units so i dont get what you meaning,i think that i am doing a favour to many players that dont know the army or the units and only want spend the money in one 2k list that gonna be competitive and dont want spend this money and then end with a non competitive list(im sure of this because i got many persons asking me for this in real life and on the web)

 

in short my intention is that persons that dont know cities can know that is good and what is bad,and then they can choose if they want do a full army with bad units because they like the models,but they know that this list wont be good,and that is better than give wrongs ideas about how bad units are good and then some players that like these units gonna make a full list with these units thinking that they are great and gonna be discouraged when they are destroyed in games.

i know that my english is bad,and sound rude many times,and i am too much black and white but my intent is good(teach to new players)

Edited September 8, 2023 by Doko

[Doko]

31 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Unfortunately I think there is a good chance none of that is errata. I've had a look through the book and every time you see Hammerer's appear in the art they don't have a command squad. I think this might be a deliberate choice they made. If thats the case its a shame, but there is a sort of thematic sense to it.

I don't think the shield has rules, might just be a look thing.

As for the iron drakes defence against shooting, I think that is also an intended removal, they already have 2 different unit rules, and they've been cutting down on them

yep i know that the irondrakes is a direct nerf and not errata,but i dont loose nothing for try it.

the gryfon is more dubiously because the black dragon have shield even if it is bad,so it is weird if dragon shield have rules but gryfon not.

the hammerers im sure 100% that is a errata,they have com,amd squad in the miniatures,they have had rules for 20 years this comand squad,and this book have comand squad for every single unit with the model but only hammerers are out?

also i only found page 144-145 with one pic,and yes hammerers dont have musician neither standard,but in this same pic also ironbreakers dont have musician neither standard and have rules,so that dont mean nothing

[Satyrical Sophist]

3 minutes ago, Doko said:

i dont get what u mean,soceres can also buff to other diferent unit while giving the ward to blackguards and better even can even debuff enemy to give a indirect buff to non elf units where runelord only can buff dwarfs,also enemy dont know what order gonna give the sorceres where if you see a ironbreaker in a objetive together a dwarf you know that he gonna do the shieldwall.

again i dont get it,what u meaning. we are speaking about the more competitive options,whats the point in speak about how ironbreakers can be used as shield,or how a sorceress can do one spell,or the artillery can be used to shoot!?

everyone know these things,usually the point to discuss is what are the best units for each role.

also i dont get because i gonna do feel bad to persons that dont like the non optimal option,they gonna feel better spending 300€ in their non optimal units thinking that they are good and then get destroyed in every game and dont have fun?

here in my club i am asked for many players about the best unit to buy to be competitive etc and maybe i have got a habit to be too much white and black about each unit.

i myself i have used a full dispossesed army for 8 years (not in tournaments) and i never felt bad when other players said how bad were the dwarfs units so i dont get what you meaning,i think that i am doing a favour to many players that dont know the army or the units and only want spend the money in one 2k list that gonna be competitive and dont want spend this money and then end with a non competitive list(im sure of this because i got many persons asking me for this in real life and on the web)

 

Would you mind spending a little bit longer formatting your messages, it is pretty hard to read and parse. I understand that english isn't your first language, but all the sentences are blurring together. 

I'm just talking about a book I'm quite enthusiastic about that looks like a lot of fun to play. This forum isn't relentlessly competitively focused, a fact I'm pretty happy with. I think there is a middle ground between tournament grinding meta seeking and wanting to play well. 

If a very new person was getting into AoS and wanted to start CoS I would recommend the following.

• The newer units are likely to be around long term. 
• Older units might stay, they might not stay.
• If you enjoy the look and want to paint older units, go ahead but be aware that they might not be around in 3 years. It helps if you give some thought to where you might play the units if they rotate out. For example, Dawn Riders in Lumineth are the same base size as Drakespawn Knights, and both are Aelf Cavalry. There are a number of places for the Dark/High Elves to go, even if another faction isn't released. Some units are going to be harder to place though. I think Drake Spawn Chariots could be rebased on 90 by 52 ovals to be used as Sharks in Deepkin. 
• Getting into an army takes a long time, and metas can change famously fast. I'd be more careful about buying a lot of copies of an  Old World unit more than getting a huge number of Fusiliers say, but I'd still be cautious about getting 10 units of Fusiliers. 
• Some units are better overall than others. If you want to play competitively you probably want to focus primarily on the better units. Some of the better units are only better due to finite buffs though. For shooting I think the first Fusilier unit buffed by a Warforger is the best choice. After that point though if you want additional shooting (You might, you might not) then I think you are better off using a different shooting choice. Potentially that is Iron Drakes, potentially Scourge Runners. Probably not currently cannons. 
• Some of the less good units may be better in some different situations. If you have a sorceress then Dreadspears suddenly have an upside over Corsairs. 
• There are definitely some units that I'd struggle to see the point in using, because the alternative is TOO similiar, but better. Examples of that would be I'd struggle to ever want to run a Sorceress on Black Dragon over a Dreadlord. Similarly I don't see myself ever wanting Bleak Swords over Dreadspears. Same for Battlemage on Griffon over the Marshal version. Maybe I should look more into some of these, but from what I've seen I'd struggle to justify them.

[Doko]

12 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Older units might stay, they might not stay

good point that i usually forget when compare units.

i gonna play the old world when be release,so i dont mind too much if they dissapear from aos but you got a very good point for these players that only gonna play to aos

[Myrdin]

6 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Personally, I think every option for a second shooting unit in Cities is currently kinda bad. Which is also why I don't think Greywater is actually as good as it appears at first glance.

The second block of Fusiliers is not so good becuase it either makes you really immobile by having to keep both blocks near the same Alchemite or it misses out on a lot of the buffs that make the first Fusilier block good (+1 to wound from command trait, mortals from the spell). You can't have two Fusilier blocks operating independently to good effect.

Irondrakes, I already talked about above. Overall, I think they are too expensive right now for what they can theoretically do. The same applies to the Fusil-Major and Cannons.

Having a Steam Tank or two is genuinely a defensible option, but not for their ranged damage output alone. They shoot OK, though. Same for the Scourgerunner and possibly the Gyrocopters.

Everything else seems like incidental shooting, not real damage dealers. You can slap a unit of Darkshards in a list as a ranged screen that does, like, 3 damage per round. Or you can run a unit of Wildercorps Hunters just to push them onto terrain near an objective so that the opponent has to come down there to remove them. But none of the units not mentioned above have the potential to deal serious ranged damage.

In my opinion: Be happy with the good shooting you can get out of that first Fusilier unit, build the rest of the army as melee.

My solution to second shooting block is via allies. 3 Starshard Balistas (Lumineth) are individually very strong, and taking multiple you are getting the 36" range buff. Combined with the reliable profile and low cost at 120 you can easily bring 3 and let them have a go at lonesome priority targets turn 1 without even needing to move. Since they dont require any buffs and even offer a single turn debuff, I believe you should be able to get your points worth back.

For those planning to run Greywater this might be a serious pick to consider since our own cannon is overpriced, short ranged and really not that impressive.

[Asbestress]

30 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

My solution to second shooting block is via allies. 3 Starshard Balistas (Lumineth) are individually very strong, and taking multiple you are getting the 36" range buff. Combined with the reliable profile and low cost at 120 you can easily bring 3 and let them have a go at lonesome priority targets turn 1 without even needing to move. Since they dont require any buffs and even offer a single turn debuff, I believe you should be able to get your points worth back.

For those planning to run Greywater this might be a serious pick to consider since our own cannon is overpriced, short ranged and really not that impressive.

Aelves? In my Greywater? What are we, Settler's Gain?

[Satyrical Sophist]

3 hours ago, Myrdin said:

My solution to second shooting block is via allies. 3 Starshard Balistas (Lumineth) are individually very strong, and taking multiple you are getting the 36" range buff. Combined with the reliable profile and low cost at 120 you can easily bring 3 and let them have a go at lonesome priority targets turn 1 without even needing to move. Since they dont require any buffs and even offer a single turn debuff, I believe you should be able to get your points worth back.

For those planning to run Greywater this might be a serious pick to consider since our own cannon is overpriced, short ranged and really not that impressive.

They come in a bit ahead of Cannon without All out Attack and a bit behind cannon with all out attack when you account for points.

I was considering Sevireth in Settler's Gain. He isn't super efficient, but he can do targeted mortal wounds in addition, and move ridiculously fast to threaten objectives.

[Myrdin]

11 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

They come in a bit ahead of Cannon without All out Attack and a bit behind cannon with all out attack when you account for points.

I was considering Sevireth in Settler's Gain. He isn't super efficient, but he can do targeted mortal wounds in addition, and move ridiculously fast to threaten objectives.

Yeah I was looking at him as well. Love that "definitely not anime" model greatly, and it supplements my already Nippon-Cathay themed army. Just a great model to have if you are into that aesthetic. Not sure about the performance since I heard it got nerfed to a degree though.

One thing I migh or might not do, depending if I can get a good piece, is replacing the goat-fox helmet head with a actual kitsune head, but at the same time I dont really mind this one either. Maybe just shaving off the horns would be enough. After all I have 3 other Kitsune models that have been patiently waiting their time. Two of which would make for a hilarious Ogre + Fussil Major count as and thus finally see some table (hence one of the reasons why I am so dissapointed just how utterly meh that things warscroll is).

[Morathi is my Goddess]

Which warhammer god did I offend to make them change the black dragons jaws to d3 damage 😢. Is there a worse monster profile in the game?

And the shield ability is hilariously bad. At least his lance greatly improved so I'll still run him; it's such a classic model. Likely will sit him in relative safety and give rerolling counter charges to drakespawn.

[JackStreicher]

8 minutes ago, Morathi is my Goddess said:

Which warhammer god did I offend to make them change the black dragons jaws to d3 damage 😢. Is there a worse monster profile in the game?

And the shield ability is hilariously bad. At least his lance greatly improved so I'll still run him; it's such a classic model. Likely will sit him in relative safety and give rerolling counter charges to drakespawn.

I honestly hate the Model: The riders are smaller than regular elfs, the Dragon is absurdly out of proportion (giant head, tiny body, even smaller wings)

The overall Pose is great, but the Model is just a hard pass 😕

I‘ve been working on a conversion for years now. It’s going to be a floaty dragon without wings. I put it on hold however since I‘d have to hand-sculpt a lot

[Skreech Verminking]

18 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

 

Would you mind spending a little bit longer formatting your messages, it is pretty hard to read and parse. I understand that english isn't your first language, but all the sentences are blurring together. 

I'm just talking about a book I'm quite enthusiastic about that looks like a lot of fun to play. This forum isn't relentlessly competitively focused, a fact I'm pretty happy with. I think there is a middle ground between tournament grinding meta seeking and wanting to play well. 

If a very new person was getting into AoS and wanted to start CoS I would recommend the following.

• The newer units are likely to be around long term. 
• Older units might stay, they might not stay.
• If you enjoy the look and want to paint older units, go ahead but be aware that they might not be around in 3 years. It helps if you give some thought to where you might play the units if they rotate out. For example, Dawn Riders in Lumineth are the same base size as Drakespawn Knights, and both are Aelf Cavalry. There are a number of places for the Dark/High Elves to go, even if another faction isn't released. Some units are going to be harder to place though. I think Drake Spawn Chariots could be rebased on 90 by 52 ovals to be used as Sharks in Deepkin. 
• Getting into an army takes a long time, and metas can change famously fast. I'd be more careful about buying a lot of copies of an  Old World unit more than getting a huge number of Fusiliers say, but I'd still be cautious about getting 10 units of Fusiliers. 
• Some units are better overall than others. If you want to play competitively you probably want to focus primarily on the better units. Some of the better units are only better due to finite buffs though. For shooting I think the first Fusilier unit buffed by a Warforger is the best choice. After that point though if you want additional shooting (You might, you might not) then I think you are better off using a different shooting choice. Potentially that is Iron Drakes, potentially Scourge Runners. Probably not currently cannons. 
• Some of the less good units may be better in some different situations. If you have a sorceress then Dreadspears suddenly have an upside over Corsairs. 
• There are definitely some units that I'd struggle to see the point in using, because the alternative is TOO similiar, but better. Examples of that would be I'd struggle to ever want to run a Sorceress on Black Dragon over a Dreadlord. Similarly I don't see myself ever wanting Bleak Swords over Dreadspears. Same for Battlemage on Griffon over the Marshal version. Maybe I should look more into some of these, but from what I've seen I'd struggle to justify them.

Thankfully old world is there to replace aos…..….

…for me😂 (or warhammer army project if it isn’t good enough

[Morathi is my Goddess]

14 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I honestly hate the Model: The riders are smaller than regular elfs, the Dragon is absurdly out of proportion (giant head, tiny body, even smaller wings)

The overall Pose is great, but the Model is just a hard pass 😕

I‘ve been working on a conversion for years now. It’s going to be a floaty dragon without wings. I put it on hold however since I‘d have to hand-sculpt a lot

Don't worry I'm definitely aware I'm in minority on this one 😄. But I'm a sucker for most dragon models..