Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion - 3rd edition

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I know that in the past the size of aura spells got increased by Arkhan's rauf spell range increase. I remember this being a big thing when the Balewind Vortex was still legal. Have there been any rules changes since then? Otherwise, I would expect things to still work the same way.

[Fellman]

lost a 1000p gem vs slaaners got my general kiled turn 3 and wos stompt after that

[Sception]

FAQ is up on warcom.

Highlights:

• Petrifex bonus changed from '-1 damage' to '-1 to wound' for attacks at hekatos & harvesters.
   
• Harvester's ability completely rewritten & significantly nerfed - activates at the end of combat phase only, targets nearby friendly obr unit, only rolls for models in that unit slain that phase. No longer lets you heal units based on nearby enemy casualties, no longer works on casualties in other phases, no longer triggers as wounds are caused, only all at once at the end of the phase - so if the unit you want to heal is entirely wiped out you can't heal them at all.
   
• Harvester and Crawler are 'single'

My thoughts:

I love the change to petrifex. -1 damage did nothing against many enemies, and was altogether too effective against a handful of others.  I like the more broadly applicable alternative.  If only they could change Null Myriad with a similar mindset.

Harvester change is super disappointing.  I appreciate that the new version works faster, isn't a constant disruption the way the old rule was, but why only in the combat phase - why not the shooting phase?  The dead from the target unit are right there, regardless.  And the fact that it can't harvest /enemy/ bones anymore feels like a lore fail, given the model is very clearly doing exactly that.  Harvester was also the main thing propping up morteks at 15 ppm, I'm not sure this new harvester will continue to do that.  Would have been much more comfortable with this change if morteks were dropped to 13ppm at the same time.

No changes to Mir Kainan or Arch-Kavalos Zandtos makes me think this FAQ was not based on any actual feedback or questions asked by the community, and a second update might not be far away.

 

[Sception]

edit: wrong thread

Edited May 24, 2023 by Sception

[Sedraxis]

1 hour ago, Sception said:

FAQ is up on warcom.

Highlights:

• Petrifex bonus changed from '-1 damage' to '-1 to wound' for attacks at hekatos & harvesters.
   
• Harvester's ability completely rewritten & significantly nerfed - activates at the end of combat phase only, targets nearby friendly obr unit, only rolls for models in that unit slain that phase. No longer lets you heal units based on nearby enemy casualties, no longer works on casualties in other phases, no longer triggers as wounds are caused, only all at once at the end of the phase - so if the unit you want to heal is entirely wiped out you can't heal them at all.
   
• Harvester and Crawler are 'single'

My thoughts:

I love the change to petrifex. -1 damage did nothing against many enemies, and was altogether too effective against a handful of others.  I like the more broadly applicable alternative.  If only they could change Null Myriad with a similar mindset.

Harvester change is super disappointing.  I appreciate that the new version works faster, isn't a constant disruption the way the old rule was, but why only in the combat phase - why not the shooting phase?  The dead from the target unit are right there, regardless.  And the fact that it can't harvest /enemy/ bones anymore feels like a lore fail, given the model is very clearly doing exactly that.  Harvester was also the main thing propping up morteks at 15 ppm, I'm not sure this new harvester will continue to do that.  Would have been much more comfortable with this change if morteks were dropped to 13ppm at the same time.

No changes to Mir Kainan or Arch-Kavalos Zandtos makes me think this FAQ was not based on any actual feedback or questions asked by the community, and a second update might not be far away.

 

Yeah this faq is very weird. Maybe they didn't receive a lot of feedback or maybe someone just tried to rush it in time for lunch.

The Harvester is very unreliable now and isn't able to return anything above mortek guard. Very disappointing to see him reduced to only picking up your own scraps, doesn't fit his design at all.

I agree with the Petrifex change, it's a bit less strong against certain armies but also never useless. Still a bit disappointed that our subfactions are very limited. I feel like they finally opened up some more options with battlelines and then took it away by applying bonuses only to certain units.

At least preatorians are still fun.

[Sception]

i mean, hatvester never returned anything above morteks iirc, but it could heal itself, use casualties on one unit to heal another, heal dofferent units in the same turn, heal based on wnemy casualties, heal on casualties suffered to shooting/magic, heal damage as it happened to stop a unit from being wiped out before it happened, etc.

A lot of utility was lost,and I'm just not sure what's left justifies the points, which is a major problem since imo harvesters were doing a lot of work to justify morteks at their new higher points cost, and if morteks have trouble running then that's a major blow to the build variety & even overall viability of the faction as a whole.

but we'll see.  I'm often overly pessimistic in such assessments.

[anorek]

So sad with Harvester change
Harvester's ability was essentially the same from 2.0 to 3.0 (only its range was increased to 6"), but now it's is just made useless with GWs half-assed copy/pasting abilities with "At the end of the combat phase".

 

[simakover]

is it possible to make some decent roster with it? have no games more than a year

Katakros
Nagash
Arch-Kavalos Zandtos
Gothizzar Harvester x 1
Kavalos Deathrider x 3
Mortek Crawler x 3
Mortek Guard x 60
Mortisan Boneshaper
Mortisan Soulmason
Nexus
Ossiarch Endless Spells
Basic Endless Spells

[LeftFistofNagash]

Harvester nerf kill’s crematorians, I think only build we will have is PE with immortis until that gets nerfed then I donno… we will get shot off the board by any have decent ranged armies

[Alezya]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:06 PM, Sedraxis said:

Yeah this faq is very weird. Maybe they didn't receive a lot of feedback or maybe someone just tried to rush it in time for lunch.

The Harvester is very unreliable now and isn't able to return anything above mortek guard. Very disappointing to see him reduced to only picking up your own scraps, doesn't fit his design at all.

They should have just changed it to "end of each phase", instead of end of combat phase. 

Unnecessary change tbh.

[anorek]

Truth being told, I've sent an email to GW (not to much disgruntled) regarding this change

I believe that change was needed, rally/heal in every phase is too much - but they could change it, not kill it to the point that people won't find model usable.

They could have made a rule that you could try to return models in battleshock phase, all killed throughout the current turn. Or maybe something akin to Black coach or Auric Flamekeeper with D6 counter.

@edit: typos

Edited May 26, 2023 by anorek

[LeftFistofNagash]

Army Faction: Ossiarch Bonereapers
    - Army Subfaction: Mortis Praetorians
    - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs

LEADER

1 x Katakros (440)

1 x Arkhan the Black (370)*

1 x Arch-Kavalos Zandtos (200)*

1 x Mortisan Boneshaper (120)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Aura of Sterility
    - Artefacts: Artisan’s Key
    - Spells: Drain Vitality
    - Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage

BATTLELINE

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (170)*
    - Mortek Hekatos
    - Necrophoros
    - Nadirite Blade

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (170)*
    - Mortek Hekatos
    - Necrophoros
    - Nadirite Blade

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (170)*
    - Mortek Hekatos
    - Necrophoros
    - Nadirite Blade

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (170)*
    - Mortek Hekatos
    - Necrophoros
    - Nadirite Blade

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (170)*
    - Mortek Hekatos
    - Necrophoros
    - Nadirite Blade

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Ossiarch Cohort

TOTAL POINTS: (1980/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

[Bademeister]

I played 20 Morteks with a Harvester behind them in crematorians. The Healing was redicilous. That had to be changed.

You have to rethink the Harvester. Lot of people missed the small things. Before the harvester had to sit behind the mortek wall "just to heal them". Now he can be within 6" of the unit. that said he can move abite more, is more flexible and can go into combat.

The 2nd thing is a lot better. Befor you had to roll a dice every time a slain model was removed. removing model happanes one by one. so rolling dice did. Now you roll all dice together and you have a "healing pool" that can get above 3 or 5 wounds. Meaning that you can revive Deathrider, Immortis Guard/Stalkers or even Morghast (in a unit of 4 or more). 

Just think about having 6 Immortis Guard, loosing 4 of them. With the new Harvester you can bring back one Immortis Guard. Thats 67 value of points. 

2 Harvester and 2x6 Immortis Guard, paired with Boneshaper with Artisan's Key in Petrifex Elite or Null Myriad is nearly unkillable. Give the Boneshaper Aura of Sterility and you laugh against all KO, Tzeentch and Lumineth Lists out there.

Maybe you have just sometimes take a step back and rethink the usage of Units. Just because you played it for along time one way just doesn't mean you can't use them a other "new" way.

 

[LeftFistofNagash]

Going up again DoK on Sat, never played them and haven’t had a game with the new book yet. Any tips on how to overcome? I’m sure there will be bow snakes

[Fellman]

won a tiht fun 2000p game vs slaves to darkens with my nulmyiad list.

[LeftFistofNagash]

Can we endless duty more than one unit?

[Sception]

Endless Duty is a command ability on an OBR warscroll and is therefore an OBR command ability.  OBR command abilities do not have the usual restriction of only being usable once per phase.  HOWEVER, the restriction that a given unit can only issue one and only receive one command ability per phase still applies.

So you can use Endless Duty on more than one unit, but each time you use the command ability in a given phase, it must be issued by a different Liege Kavalos or Katakros unit.

so if you run Katakros and two liege kavalos then you can issue endless duty to up to three different units in the same hero phase.

though keep in mind that Katakros can only issue one command ability per hero phase, so will probably set up his aura instead, unless he cannot do so due to being within 3" of an enemy unit.

[LeftFistofNagash]

14 hours ago, Sception said:

Endless Duty is a command ability on an OBR warscroll and is therefore an OBR command ability.  OBR command abilities do not have the usual restriction of only being usable once per phase.  HOWEVER, the restriction that a given unit can only issue one and only receive one command ability per phase still applies.

So you can use Endless Duty on more than one unit, but each time you use the command ability in a given phase, it must be issued by a different Liege Kavalos or Katakros unit.

so if you run Katakros and two liege kavalos then you can issue endless duty to up to three different units in the same hero phase.

though keep in mind that Katakros can only issue one command ability per hero phase, so will probably set up his aura instead, unless he cannot do so due to being within 3" of an enemy unit.

Yeah figured that was the way it was…. Miss the days of using it on multiple units

[rattila]

So i got another 1500 game last week. List was Soulmason (aura of sterility), boneshaper (artisan key), 20 mortek, 1 harvester, 2*3 immortis and 2 morghast harbinger. Petrifex elite.

I went again lumineth with 3 hero, 2*5 windrider, 1*5horses, 20 sentinel and 10 warden. No idea what i was going to face before the battle. 

 

Didnt remember the plan, but 4 obj, one wholly within in each territory and two partially in both territory.

 

Hard defeat 6-15 at the end of turn 3 (was fun, tho)

 

What i learned:

- nerf of harvester is harmful. I had 4 dice to throw on the game, where before the nerf i would have at least throw 30 dices. The fact that its only in the combat phase suck (damn you sentinel), the fact that you cant use the corpse of ennemies to replenish yourself also hurt. So from a viable strategie, its now just a little bonus. And you wonder then why take a gothizzar (also, i totally forgot to roar etc but still.).

- nerf of petrifex elite : -1 to wound isnt as great as -1 dmg. Still can be good, but not VS sunmetal weapons who make mortal wounds on 5 to hit. And anyway it works only in combat... So lumineth is hard to counter, because none of our subfaction allegiance is really worth it for me.

- lack of galletian champion suck. I had only the boneshaper, which was really hard because the battleplan and a lot of the tactics needed one or two galletian champions, or required them to kill something, or to be somewhere. I really had no chance to score; even if i had killed a lot of ennemies, i would have lost because of the lack of galletian champions.

- lack of use of the deep strike of the morghast : honestly, its been 4-5 times and i never could have landed them in a good way. They have a big footprint so are easy to deny, and have no way to go inside this damn 9'' bubble. Or you have to wait turn 3 to make a suprise, but surely you lost before. Will take the archai next time; a possible ward is better than nothing. But i do think they lack punch (honestly, 3 attacks only for those monster...) for their point.

- null myriad would have been not better, as almost all spells where buffs or indirect debuff. Total eclipse is a ****** and i have really felt the lack of command point in the game.

- additionnal attacks on 6 to hit was great. Had several times more hits than attacks (even tho i messed my to wound rolls after, it was great to see the face of my opponent after the to hit roll).

- i need to roll higher to make my nightmare predator coming. Maybe train 1 hour / day to roll dices.

 

In the end, i made some bad choices, but a really think that my list had no chance:

- no way to score

- no protection vs sunmetal weapons of the sentinel

- no real way to protect my soulmason vs assassination (i lost him first turn), which harmed me a lot (i planned to make a good use of our spells... well.)

[LeftFistofNagash]

I think the Harvester nerf has made them totally useless. Can’t see any reason to take them ever.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I was never super hot on the harvester as a non-hero, non-monster buff piece. It always felt to me that pushing a slow unit up with other footsloggers to heal them is kind of just worse than taking another unit of those footsloggers. For 210 points, I think I prefer 10 more Mortek/3 more Immortis. Or a Boneshaper if I want the healing.

Maybe in the next book they can rethink the role of the Harvester. I think some kind of level up mechanic would be a good fit: The more bones it collects, the better it get/the better its buffs get.

[Sception]

Harvester nerf is a significant hit.  I was really excited for this army and pleased with their 3rd edition release, and knocking out that one tool in their kit did /so much damage/.  Like, how much would points have to come down to acommodate that change.  Would harvesters be worth running at 180?  160?  Without harvesters, would morteks be viable at 130?  120?  How many rounds of points adjustments will it take to get there, considering that GW doesn't like to push points by more than like 10 at a time?

In the mean time, the faction seems to rely on hekatos, immortis in particular, for effective battleline.  The subfactions felt remarkably balanced on release compared to 2nd edition where it was all-petrifex-all-the-time, but the harvester nerf skewing the entire faction heavily towards hekatos based armies puts us right back into all-petrifex territory, especially when then coming year-long competitive season will be pushing us to run mortisans as heroes & generals anyway.  It's all very consolidating, and not in a good way.

[LeftFistofNagash]

I agree 100, was pumped to try mortek + harvesters + crematorians combos but now I wouldn’t take them unless harvesters were 150 and mortek like 130 or lower… all my lists are hekatos or deathriders…. I saw someone suggest harvesters plus hekatos but Arkhan can bring them back also and does a ton more for the army than a kinda ok in combat harvester…. Should work off enemy deaths… should be able to heal any obr unit…. Maybe the limit to one unit per turn is fine or lower the range back to 3

[Adammck66]

Looking for some quick advice,

 

I have 20 Mortek guard with swords, and got another box of them. Better to do another 20 man blob or 2 10mans for flexibility?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 minutes ago, Adammck66 said:

Looking for some quick advice,

 

I have 20 Mortek guard with swords, and got another box of them. Better to do another 20 man blob or 2 10mans for flexibility?

Are you talking in terms of modelling or list building?