AoS 3 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Adammck66]

Hey, I'm getting started on Fyreslayers and thinking on this list. Any thoughts, particullary on a Lodge or Batallion?

Runefather on Magmadroth

Runeson

Battlesmith

Runesmiter

Runemaster

2x10 Hearthguard Berserkers (either 10 poles and 10 axes, or double up on one?)

3x 10 Vulkite Berserkers (2x10 double axes and shields or 3x10 double. Maybe 20 man and 10 for rally value?)

Looks the basic list I suppose. Thinking Vostsarg or Greyfyrd. Open to other heroes or changing whos on the Magmadroth, or seeing if Auric are any good.

 

Thanks for any tips

 

[5kaven5lave]

On 5/19/2022 at 7:26 AM, Adammck66 said:

Hey, I'm getting started on Fyreslayers and thinking on this list. Any thoughts, particullary on a Lodge or Batallion?

Runefather on Magmadroth

Runeson

Battlesmith

Runesmiter

Runemaster

2x10 Hearthguard Berserkers (either 10 poles and 10 axes, or double up on one?)

3x 10 Vulkite Berserkers (2x10 double axes and shields or 3x10 double. Maybe 20 man and 10 for rally value?)

Looks the basic list I suppose. Thinking Vostsarg or Greyfyrd. Open to other heroes or changing whos on the Magmadroth, or seeing if Auric are any good.

 

Thanks for any tips

 

As a disclaimer I’m rubbish at Warhammer, but most lists I’ve seen tend to go with 15s of HGB and the games I’ve played with 10s and 15s make me agree that 15s are better. Lots of foot heroes make me think that Greyfyrd is probably best. 

[Gemzo]

What weapons are people taking with shielded vulkites?  Picks or Axes?

I'm assembling mine and haven't had a chance to pick up the new tome yet.

[Tarogrim]

People always used to take picks because of the extra rend so you will see a lot of people still using that layout. 

With only one attack on their new profile I don't think it is that relevant any more because the damage output of both handaxe and war picks is pretty low. 

My advice would be to take whatever you like better visually and from a painting standpoint. 

[Azamar]

6 hours ago, Gemzo said:

What weapons are people taking with shielded vulkites?  Picks or Axes?

I'm assembling mine and haven't had a chance to pick up the new tome yet.

I think probably axes with the new warscroll. With so few attacks I think the 3+ to wound would be preferable to actually force some saves in the first place. 

[Gemzo]

5 hours ago, Tarogrim said:

People always used to take picks because of the extra rend so you will see a lot of people still using that layout. 

With only one attack on their new profile I don't think it is that relevant any more because the damage output of both handaxe and war picks is pretty low. 

My advice would be to take whatever you like better visually and from a painting standpoint. 

I've seen a few lists doing well in tournaments that have a block of 20 with shields, but it never says what the weapon choice is. Axes certainly seem more dwarfy to me.

[5kaven5lave]

Vote for Picks here, Vulkites hit like a wet noodle either way but Picks tap into that World That Was mining vibe for me. 

[Gemzo]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:11 PM, 5kaven5lave said:

Vote for Picks here, Vulkites hit like a wet noodle either way but Picks tap into that World That Was mining vibe for me. 

If it's kind of a wash eithe way, doing one unit with axes and one unit with picks will make it easier to tell them apart.

[5kaven5lave]

Are we expecting any points changes do we think?

[Baron Klatz]

2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Are we expecting any points changes do we think?

I think just cheaper Endless Spells. Seems that’s the only tweak 3.0 factions with tomes get right now.

Looking like a nice way to quickly wipe any MSU dominion battalions with a magma invocation so our Bounty Hunter Hearthguards (and Lofnir Magmadroths?) can carve up the enemy to teach them not to contest Grimnir’s children in the underground if they want to stay out of the oven. 🔥 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Gemzo]

What do folks think about how the new GHB might affect your list?

In a battleline-heavy army, it seems like there's potential for Bounty hunters to have a devastating impact, if (potentially) all your opponents are doing extra damage to all your units.

I'm not clear whether "battleline-if" units will count as veterans when they're not battleline in your army.

 

[Baron Klatz]

3 hours ago, Gemzo said:

I'm not clear whether "battleline-if" units will count as veterans when they're not battleline in your army.

Nah, battleline changes too many things like battleline Magmadroths losing their behemoth placing so you can take more.

So you’d need to meet the conditions and make them battleline on the field for them to count. 
 

As for bounty Hunter I think Fyreslayers can be in a good place since our battleline Magmadroths can take it(no longer behemoth and too big to be GV), our 2 wound & heavy warded doughty infantry can absorb a lot of hits and Rally back with Battlesmith while Hearthguard, Berzerkers & Doomseekers can go on the hunt themselves.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Gemzo]

Without running Magmadroths as battline (I only have one of them), we don't have non-veteran battleline choices. I'm still not sure that being a veteran is actually a good thing. 

I was planning on running two units of HGB and one unit of 20 Shield Vulkites, but now I'm thinking three 10-man units of Vulkites as battleline, so the HGB aren't battleline.

[Baron Klatz]

Yeah, if not a 20 blob for more weight,  using shield Vulkites in 10 man domination forces can be great for grabbing targets, distracting attention while leaving your list open to grab more Bounty Hunter options.

[5kaven5lave]

Looks like the Invocations got cheaper and that’s pretty much it?

[Baron Klatz]

Yeah, just like the other updated armies to 3.0.

Interesting they got mentioned among the other looked at armies tho:

”“There are a handful of factions, including Sons of Behemat, Fyreslayers, Beasts of Chaos, and Maggotkin of Nurgle that are also currently outside our target win rate, but we’re going to take a bit more time monitoring to see how they are affected by the shifts introduced by the new General’s Handbook – stay tuned over the coming months for more updates on this.”

If I had to guess at changes it’d be finally making the Flamekeeper a Priest keyword and a big Ward buff like increasing the save and range that the Magmic Battleforge & Battlepriest give. Maybe also add that Musicians increase Rally chances.

 

[5kaven5lave]

Cool, we’ll see what the next few months bring. At the moment it seems like I’m keeping current list but am 30 points more likely to get the triumph which is decent. Would like to swap my Flamekeeper for a Runesmiter but I’m 5 points short!

[5kaven5lave]

Oh man, does anyone have any ideas what to do with a non-droth battleline list? I don’t know whether to try and beef up units of 10 HGBs and make them count for  30 with the one battalion , keep the 15 blocks and give them the damage buff in the other, maybe even swap Runefather out as general so HGBs aren’t battleline and aren’t Galletians any more? 

[readercolin]

2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Oh man, does anyone have any ideas what to do with a non-droth battleline list? I don’t know whether to try and beef up units of 10 HGBs and make them count for  30 with the one battalion , keep the 15 blocks and give them the damage buff in the other, maybe even swap Runefather out as general so HGBs aren’t battleline and aren’t Galletians any more? 

There are 3 ok(ish) answers:

Lofnir with droths + vulkites for your battleline, and accept vulkites are going to die fast.
Priest general to get Aurics as battleline, and then 3 MSU blocks of them in conquerers to stand on objectives and pretend that they are helping
Vulkites only as battleline (no runefather general), and again accept that vulkites are going to die fast

Overall, I would look to just run 3 squads of vulkites in conquerers, and then bricks of 10 hearthguard in bounty hunters accompanying a father or son.  Ex:

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Greyfyrd
Battlesmith (150)
- General
Auric Runefather (125)
Auric Runefather (125)
Auric Runefather (125)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)

Total: 1965 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143
Drops: 10

I would use the above as a starting point, and then adjust to taste/models.  In the above, I would run conquerers, bounty hunters, and command entourage (4 artefacts).  But you could also swap the battlesmith out for a priest, and then also have the option to swap any number of the vulkites for aurics.  Otherwise, I think keeping your hearthguard as veterans is just going to leave them too vulnerable vs bounty hunters, and even being able to bring 15 man squads isn't enough to compensate for that.

[5kaven5lave]

@readercolin Thanks man, really good points, helped me to work it out. Gonna follow your advice but fluff it up a bit in the first instance, can run the below without buying anything (getting stuff painted however is a different matter…). This should give me some range and anti-horde tech if they prove popular (does work out at 1995 in new points), battleline as triple bodies, HGBs as hunters:

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Greyfyrd
- Grand Strategy: 
- Triumphs: Inspired
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (340)
- General
- Runic Iron
- Command Trait: Master Priest  
- Artefact: Droth-helm  
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
Auric Runefather (125)
- Artefact: Axe of Grimnir  
Auric Runeson (80)
- Ancestral War-axe
Auric Runemaster (125)
- Artefact: Volatile Brazier  
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
Battlesmith (150)
- Artefact: Nulsidian Icon  
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)
5 x Auric Hearthguard (125)
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
- Broadaxes
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
- Poleaxes
- Reinforced x 1
Molten Infernoth (70)
Zharrgron Flame-spitter (55)

Total: 2030 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
Drops: 10

Not sure how effective it’ll be but it’s nice to take one of almost everything in the book.  

[5kaven5lave]

Anyone else been thinking about taking an Arcane Tome for some Endless Spell shenanigans? Tbh, I feel like the damage output of our Invocations is at least roughly comparable to some of the ES. Having Mystic Shield though is definitely a bonus in a book where none of our Wards stack.

Also - the new realm spell might be useful for a Magmadroth trying to cap an objective I reckon. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by 5kaven5lave

[5kaven5lave]

Played 2 games with my list above. First game playing Prize of Gallet didn’t go so well, made a few errors and was beaten pretty soundly.   

Second game on Realmstone Cache was much better vs. Stormcast, basically a Dracothian / Stormdrake Guard / Stardrake mashup list. Pretty much worked exactly as planned despite not winning any rolloffs until round 5. First 2 turns were a cagey waiting game while we waited for it to explode. Once it did the battleline screened out, Battlesmith helped them take the hit and hold them off, though I was pinned in until about round 4 so was behind on points. The HGB blocks with Father and Son were lethal though and carved through his units on the counter-charge so managed to come back into it, made some runs / charges onto objectives and we called it in turn 5.

Quite like how it played so gonna stick with it for now, obviously it’s ultra vulnerable to having heroes shot off early doors vs. filth but for the mid-tables it’s pretty fun to pilot, was a satisfying victory in the end.

[kozokus]

Hello,

 

Here is a quick report of a tournament i just made. It was a 5 round – two days – 28 players in Bordeaux in France.

Here is what i played :

 

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Vostarg
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- Grand Strategy: Master of the Forge
- Triumphs:
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (360)**
- General
- Command Trait: Blood of the Berzerker
- Artefact: Master Rune of Unbreakable Resolve
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Flamekeeper (90)**
Auric Flamekeeper (90)**
Battlesmith (150)***
- Artefact: Nulsidian Icon
Auric Runesmiter (135)***
- Forge Key
- Prayer: Ember Storm
Auric Runemaster (125)***
- Artefact: Volatile Brazier
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)****
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)****
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)****
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)*
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)*
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)*
Molten Infernoth (40)
*Bounty Hunters
**Command Entourage - Magnificent
***Command Entourage - Magnificent
****Expert Conquerors
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 162
Drops: 12

 

 Some says that this is too much veterans and that i will be wrecked by hunters, but jokes on you, you where already deleting one unit of Vulkites in a single swing so it doesn’t change anything.

Some also says that having rend 0 across the army is bad, but when you have such a high volume of attack, thoses ones are going to pop. 10 vulkites charging reliably force 20-25 armor saves, when thoses are dammage 2-3 this can become unbearable.

 

Gameplan : The synergy relies on avancing a castle with multiple layers of vulkites with at least 4 units WW12 » of the battlesmith and the flamekeepers. The goal is to endure charges, fight on death, fuel the Masterflame Runes™ and countercharge your opponent in his own turn of boost some vulkites. This list is really good at trading units which is a bad deal for the ennemy. The runefather is simply a fast bruiser, with a one-time immunity to dammage.

 

Here is how it went. :

 

Round 1

Fyreslayer Lofnir on Turf War.

He is playing the 3 droth list +10 HGB + 20 vulkites and he will end 4th of the tournament. Two fyreslayers on a scenario with only two objectives in the middle is bad news. He started the game by securing 5 easy points and placing a toe on each objectives and pass the turn. On my turn i poped the +1 hit rune, which is the best defensive option that doesn’t hamper your late game agressive plan. I went agressive and retake both objectives killing one of his vulkites and run’and charging on his HGB unit avoiding the strike first effect and reducing them to 3. He took the second tun and went all-in on one objective but made a mistake by beeing too close too disengaged vulkites. At the start of his own combat phase i poped a charge with an expert conqueror unit, and +1 dammage and strike first on a non-roared unit who promply kills a bounty-hunter-runeson in a single swing. This extra charge both prevent him from capturing any objective but also from scoring his tactic and he scores 0, then i double turned him, engage a duel of runefather with mine on extra-2 rend, and table him entirely.

20-0 Victory.

 

Round 2

Bonesplitterz on Battle lines.

He plays Bonegrinz, with 2X30 archers in expert conqueror and 4 wurgogs, a couple of bigstabbas and a screen, he will end on the third place of the tournament.

This list is pretty tough and he plays it well. He leaves a large zone between us and make me start. There is no point in beeing defensive, i simply pop the move rune and run forward, also teleporting 2 units into his corner to score an easy tactic. the magmadroth and 10 vulkites simply kills some screens and bigstabbaz. On his turn he made a perfect with a wurgog mask on the magmadroth and began to kill some vulkites but he had trouble finishing some units which allows me to rally a lot of vulkites in the game. I won the initiative for turn 2 which allow me to stay in the game and we start a game of cat and mouse where i was constantely charging in his own turn. In the end of the turn5, there is only one models left on the table, a wurgog on 2 wounds. The butchery was immense, 400+ wounds where inflicted in that game. The 10 expert conqueror vulkites teleported in his back on turn1 where an extremely good move, he had trouble keeping the control of his territory while also capturing two other quarter which allows me to create a gap in the score.

15-5, victory !

 

Round3

STD Despoiler on Frontal collision.

He plays A Khorne Prince, with a lord, sorcerer, some maraudeurs, 2x5 knights of khorne, a shrine and 30 tzeentch warriors. He made 2th.

30 Warriors with +3 armor save are extremely tough to break, fortunately i don’t have any rend that would have been useless, ahah. He let me start, i simply tighten my ranks, pop +1hit and the 5+ ward and wait for his inevitable double turn. He is not afraid to engage me so strike first is nullified and charging in his own turn is risky because of the Prince. He tried to charge vulkites with knights but i answered with fight on death and +2 dammage and we traded both units which was ok for me and re-fuled instantely my flamekeepers. We traded blows in the middle for 4 turns but the volume of attacks i have is too big and he ends making too much 2 on his saves against my dammage 4 vulkites (1+2 flamekeepers+hunter) and his army crumble. The infernoth had a sudden surge on turn3 and instantely killed all his heroes which added to his demise, but almost made me miss my Grand strategy. We are on equal score at the end of turn 4, but on turn 5 i can finally capture his home objective which made me score 10 and 0 for him.

15-5 Victory !

 

Round 4

Idoneth on The strong and the cunning.

This scenario is extremely cruel when you play 6 veterans and you can offer up to 18 free points to the ennemy. Fortunately this is balanced by the fact you have an extremely good control of the objectives.

He plays 30 thralls, 3x10 archers some support heroes, 2x5 Dawnriders ! and a general Eidolon that can overwhelm you with infinite spellcasting, + 3 endless spells. His list is interesting and i bless myself for forcing me to include the nulsidian icon. The inclusion of dawnriders-bounty hunter for additional spellcaster was a great idea.

He made me start and i surprised him by using the +2 move rune and heroic action on runefather for +2 charge. I took all objectives, using 5+ ward, making a strong center and two small presence on side objectives. The runefather and 10 teleporting vulkites made the charge and killed 5 dawnriders +10 archers. His turn was a catastrophe, he casted a couple of spells but re-rolled onto a fiasco which ended his magic phase too soon. He also made the mistake of trying to kill the runefather with his 30 thralls instead of attacking my castle. The 30 thralls all dies in the process while dealing 2 wounds on the magmadroth. After that he rethink his plan and began to retake the game. The eidolon and 20 archers began to butcher my magmadroth and 40 vulkites with a rain of arrows and endless spells in 3 turns as i cannot put my hands on them. But he lacked any presence and can’t score more than one objective. A lucky initiative allows me to finally kills his last models but i only had foot heroes alive after that.

15-5, Victory !

 

Round 5

Nighthaunt on Gallet’s prise

He plays 2x20 bladegheists, olynder, cruciator, guardian of souls, 3 bodyguards, 40 chainrasps and a corpse cart for -1 to wound. He made 8th.

His lack of veterans plus cruciator and him not beeing afraid to engage a maximum of my units almost nullify flamekeepers. On turn 1 i use the rune of +1hit (which also gave me +1 attack) and prepare for a double turn. He played defensively, making strings of chainrasps and recapturing the only objective. I got the priority but sitting on 5+ ward and +1 attack i let him go first. He went all in and made a couple of 10+ charges which nullifies Strike first. But fortunately for me both flamekeepers where charged and i could pop some extra fight on death and +1 dammage where the cruciator wasn’t. The magic of the 4+ save means that he is prone to bad rolls and having no rend and a lot of attacks was my best attribute. Charging vulkites asks him about 21 saves every time which is too much for him. I won all priority rolls which allowed me to be constantely agressive. In the end of the game both armies where entirely destroyed except for 20 vulkites for me and 2-3 models for him but i kept the contrôle of the objectives for too long. Emerald Host was punishing for support heroes but it came too late.

14-6 Victory !

 

I barely won the tournament, the STD player i beated was only one point behind me.

 

Afterthoughts.

 

-Fighting on death was a marvel. Trading units constantely took most opponent offguard and allowed me to kill things in the opponent turn instead of just loosing units.

-Two Flamekeepers where my MVP models. But they are very intense to use. Constantely checking your options, charging at the combat phase, avoiding Unleash Hell, taking opponent offguard, punishing bad positionning and recapturing objectives at the worst moment. They where exhausting to play and play against.

-At the start of each combat phase you constantely says « STOP » and began to use 4-5 different effects. This is very hard to keep in mind and i made a lot of mistakes, using Fight on death when there is no real use or forgetting lords of the lodge (that you can only use in your own turn).

-Having at least one magmadroth was very good. It was my cavalery, my fast missile.

-Having one runesmither was indispensable. Allowing me to at least score « 2 units in your territory » when nothing else is possible.

-The infernoth rarely made the difference except on turns where it explodes but it was an easy Grand Strategy, that i always scored. But i felt i paid it 40 points and 1-2 prayer cast for 3 bonus points. In the Fyreslayer mirror it only serves as minor nuisance for movement. Maybe there is a better Grand strategy to use.

-If there was a modification to make, that would be making the runemaster general. He gets rarely killed and using two runes could have been much better than two pile-in, that i rarely needed.

-Seriously Greyfyrd feels ****** when you have tasted Vostarg. Getting +1 hit wound and attack is incredible. 31-41 attacks on 2+2+, holy ****** ! boohoo no rend, yes but you rarely need rend with such high volume, plus you have an on demand extra rend once per game.

-I wish i had the points to make thoses shields into more twin axes. They are ******.

-Contrary to my precedent tournament with Kruleboys, there was no game i should have brutally lost. Scores could have moved a bit up and down, sometimes ending in a small defeat, but there was no game i won by straight luck against all odds.

[Grudgebearer]

Congratulations on the awesome result! I run a similar list but with son on droth instead of runefather to get the 6th double axe unit. Worked out brilliantly for me as well.

really nice writeup and report!

[Clan's Cynic]

So what Stormcast units do we think are worth potentially allying in?* It's a bias question, because I've a mind to paint up some of the plastic I've been hoarding as Anvils of the Heldenhammer.

*Stormdrake Guard aside, at least on my part.