AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[EnixLHQ]

2 hours ago, Rors said:

Very thankful the sites back.

I've been thinking about how one would optimize the crossboos. I don't think there's a way to make them genuinely competitive but as a thought exercise, if someone wanted to build around them what would be the best option?

The best I can think of is take grieving legion and double reinforce two units and then take a GoS with the auto cast item and palisade and a dreadblade.
In a one drop list. Take first turn and drop the crossbows as a screen with the GoS buffing them. Dreadblade also then teleports up. From here you have the option of either 60 shots on 3s and 3, or give both units a 5+ ward depending on whether it's strategically better to murder something or ensure you survive. You can drop the palisade and it doesn't bother your shooting. The real benefit of the palisade isn't stopping you from getting shot back but really hampering movement and getting models into base contact.

Fro there you can rally both units on a 5+ or keep the ward or buff your shooting as needed. Anything that charges will get bogged down for awhile and if they try to ignore you, 60 shots on 3/3 isn't terrible.

That's the best way I can think of taking them.. it's not great, stuff like dragons can fly straight over or easily kill the support etc

Does anyone have any ideas about how'd they'd maximize this unit?

Only two. They can either accompany a Harridan unit or two to ensure their Murderous Bloodlust buff, or drop behind cover in enemy territory.

None of our free buffs can affect ranged attacks, which means you are defaulting to command abilities to do any buffing. And though they'd arguably be more reliable doing damage than a Krulghast or Chainghasts thanks to more chances at rolling a 6, they won't be doing much than chip damage. And despite being called the Craventhrone Guard, they neither crave anything nor guard anything, so no synergy buffs. The only units in the game I can think of that would benefit in the other direction are the Harridans. I can see them being taken instead of a KC or Chainghasts to be used as throw-away units to follow some Quicksilver Dead Harridans around. Probably their best use right now.

Otherwise, if you happened to have an opponent who happened to think they were safe hiding behind terrain and you happen to had enough room to drop them 9"-15" away from them, then you'd have a way to force them out or suffer chip damage every round.

[lare2]

3 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Warhammer Weekly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8DPDQJS-88

 

Watch it. It's the first truly "I'm not making hot takes against Nighthaunt because that makes me cool" review, and I appreciate it.

Just finished watching this last night. Love Vincey V. As someone said above as well, Tom's one of the best NH players around. Was really interesting to see their thoughts and left me pondering Herohammer. 

[EnixLHQ]

1 hour ago, lare2 said:

Just finished watching this last night. Love Vincey V. As someone said above as well, Tom's one of the best NH players around. Was really interesting to see their thoughts and left me pondering Herohammer. 

I also liked toward the end they mention that Nighthaunt has so many tools now that you don't auto-lose for bringing units you think are cool. Really, I'm just glad tournament-level people are hashing the army out seriously.

[Gitzdee]

Hi all i have a 1000 point game coming up. I ordered the new tome but haven't received it yet.
Would this be any good? I used to put Lady O in the list but i dont know if she is still worth it with the higher point cost.  Got the Warlord battalion but dont know if we got any good artifacts to be honest.

- Army Faction: Nighthaunt

LEADERS
Lord Executioner (140)*
Spirit Torment (115)*
Lady Olynder (340)*
- General
BATTLELINE
Spirit Hosts (250) (reinforced)*
Spirit Hosts (125)*
CORE BATTALIONS
- *Warlord
TOTAL POINTS: 970/1000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

(models i own https://pileofpotential.com/Iksdee?project=56870136 )

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Iksdee

[Ranzou]

Saturday gifted me game against Sons of Behemat.

My list was:

Spoiler

Olinder* - shademist

Kurdoss*

GoS* - master of magic, soul cage

Cruciator* - lightshard

Torment* - arcane tome, seal of Shyish

20x rasps **

10x reapers*

10x bladegheists **

5x hexwraiths **

3x hosts*

2x chainghasts*

Geminids

*Warlord

**Hunters

Against me were 3 different Megas and 3 Mancrushers.

Mission was 5 objectives 12" between

Spoiler

He won deployment and forced me to go first.

First turn:

Spoiler

I failed all but Geminids cast (Torment even lost wounds by mortals on miscast), made minor movement forwards to constest central objective. Geminids moved where their bases made a lot of troubles to put giant bases. BGs were sent to garrison ruin at right.

Sons their first turn managed to move forward, but were caught by geminids. Hexwraits redeployed a bit backwards. Only Mega at left and central mancrusher tried to charge but failed - redeploy helped a lot.

Second turn:

Spoiler

Sons got double turn. 

Heroic action was made to unbind geminids to clear path for megas.

Two lesser sons stayed at homescoring, all three megas with last mancrusher came to 3" zone. He tried to break the garrison and failed. After all charges I lost around 5 rasps. 

Left mega tried to kill hexwraiths - I lost 3,5 of them. 

Central two smashed into rasps - but one after another, under discorporate, they lost all but 4 buddies and stayed! Cruciator with -1 damage made A LOT here. Attacks against heroes were intercepted by hosts. At counter I used lightshard, Kurdoss took place of fallen rasps and onetapped single mancrusher before his attacks.

Garrison of BGs with last rasps and half of reapers took 31 wounds of 35 from right mega, Olinder with other half took 15 from central mega, wraiths with torment 11 from left mega.

Here comes my second turn.

Olinder lifted here veil and took last 4 wounds from most wounded mega, no rest for the wicked returned dead hexwraiths and rasps.

All haunts managed to retreat, BGs moved to right homescroing mancrusher, hexwraiths with torment to left.

Olinder with Kurdos, last rasps, chaingheists, hosts came for left mega, other heroes with reapers for central one.

With so many WoTs after charge phase two lesser and one mega were made to fight last, BGs ate lesser at right, hexwraiths ate lesser at left, Olinder with Kurdoss ate mega.

Third turn:

Spoiler

It was simple - no double turns, no possibility to change anything, last mega killed a bit of ghosts, afterwards - wiped by other.

My thoughts:

1) Rasps under all buffs and debuffs are the core of staying power here. They can take so much damage and still stay were you need them.

2) BGs are still great damage dealers, but hexwraiths for me were better - they faster, they are battleline, they have much smaller footprint

3) Hosts are autoinclude now if you have more then two heroes

4) GoS, Torment, Cruciator are staples. Only after this three buddies you can begin roster construction

5) Olinder and Kurdoss now are really killy haunts

Or, I forgot the main;

Multiple WoTs and Discorporate are SOOOO OP.

Nighthaunts are much higher tier now.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Ranzou

[Ranzou]

46 minutes ago, Iksdee said:

Got the Warlord battalion but dont know if we got any good artifacts to be honest.

You can always add two artifacts:

1) Lightshard - simply add one attack to all your ghosts is a huge boon

2) Arcane tome - we have great magic, so why don't you use it? 

Also you can make very killy Executioner by giving him cloaked in shadow trait and weapon artifact by your taste.

[Ranzou]

Ok, what about another grieving legion roster?

Spoiler

+ Leader +

Dreadblade Harrow

Guardian of Souls: General, Master of Magic, Soul Cage

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed: Pendant of the Fell Wind

Krulghast Cruciator: Lightshard of the Harvest Moon

Spirit Torment

+ Battleline +

Chainrasps: 30 Chainrasps, Hunters of the Heartlands

Chainrasps: 30 Chainrasps, Hunters of the Heartlands

Hexwraiths: 5 Hexwraiths

Hexwraiths: 5 Hexwraiths

Spirit Hosts: 3 Spirit Hosts

+ Other +

Bladegheist Revenants: 10 Bladegheist Revenants, Hunters of the Heartlands

Nighthaunt: The Grieving Legion
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

Idea is simple - two big blobs of rasps under unholy trinity (GoS, Torment, Cruciator) with hexwraiths and bladegheists as counter-charge.  

Another variant  is 20 rasps 20 reapers 6 hosts. Same points.

When we need to stay - general says Discorporate to first blob, Harrow copy it to second.

When we need to attack - generals says AOA to first blob, Harrow copy it to second.

KoSoES here to lead the attack and debuff with -1 to wound.

WoT gives -1 to hit.

Cruciator covers for -1 damage.

Torment and GoS take up buddies.

And hosts here are for babysitting our heroes.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Ranzou

[lare2]

6 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I also liked toward the end they mention that Nighthaunt has so many tools now that you don't auto-lose for bringing units you think are cool. Really, I'm just glad tournament-level people are hashing the army out seriously.

Definitely, although they weren't too keen on the Black Coach. One thing they did convince me of, if I'm running a KoSoES, I'm definitely gonna give him Spiteful Spirit. Never really paid attention to it previously. Probably throw Pendant on him as well. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by lare2

[Rors]

I don't think the coach is as bad as they suggested. It's a mixed bag of stuff so it's points cost seems a little steep for any of them in a vacuum. It's damage potential seems a little below it's cost. Same with it's mobility and it's durability.

However put it all together and you have a teleporting threat at can nab extra command points, pick off stuff that's not too big and if you get the buff up your opponent has to screen out their characters or suddenly it can drop down and whack them with 3d3 mortals.

It's a utility piece that kinda just does its own thing.

They were correct in pointing out that against some armies like SoB the utility it offers won't be that helpful.

 

[EnixLHQ]

2 hours ago, lare2 said:

Definitely, although they weren't too keen on the Black Coach. One thing they did convince me of, if I'm running a KoSoES, I'm definitely gonna give him Spiteful Spirit. Never really paid attention to it previously. Probably throw Pendant on him as well. 

 

1 hour ago, Rors said:

I don't think the coach is as bad as they suggested. It's a mixed bag of stuff so it's points cost seems a little steep for any of them in a vacuum. It's damage potential seems a little below it's cost. Same with it's mobility and it's durability.

However put it all together and you have a teleporting threat at can nab extra command points, pick off stuff that's not too big and if you get the buff up your opponent has to screen out their characters or suddenly it can drop down and whack them with 3d3 mortals.

It's a utility piece that kinda just does its own thing.

They were correct in pointing out that against some armies like SoB the utility it offers won't be that helpful.

 

I have to kind of agree with them about the Black Coach, but I really didn't want to. But Tom was right when he asked "what does it do" and no one could really answer that. It currently doesn't do anything other than be exceptionally beautiful on the field, but that won't be enough to draw fire or deal damage, and it's too expensive to just run out and sit on an objective.

Sigh. I hope they revise it.

8 hours ago, Iksdee said:

Hi all i have a 1000 point game coming up. I ordered the new tome but haven't received it yet.
Would this be any good? I used to put Lady O in the list but i dont know if she is still worth it with the higher point cost.  Got the Warlord battalion but dont know if we got any good artifacts to be honest.

- Army Faction: Nighthaunt

LEADERS
Lord Executioner (140)*
Spirit Torment (115)*
Lady Olynder (340)*
- General
BATTLELINE
Spirit Hosts (250) (reinforced)*
Spirit Hosts (125)*
CORE BATTALIONS
- *Warlord
TOTAL POINTS: 970/1000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

(models i own https://pileofpotential.com/Iksdee?project=56870136 )

 

You don't have a lot to work with just yet, but you certainly have enough to get a feel of how we play. My only advice is to just get out there and use what you have and have fun with it. Do get your Bladegheists built up (or even better, get some Chainrasps or Reapers) so you can see how a battle profile feels to swing with.

4 hours ago, Ranzou said:

Ok, what about another grieving legion roster?

  Reveal hidden contents

+ Leader +

Dreadblade Harrow

Guardian of Souls: General, Master of Magic, Soul Cage

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed: Pendant of the Fell Wind

Krulghast Cruciator: Lightshard of the Harvest Moon

Spirit Torment

+ Battleline +

Chainrasps: 30 Chainrasps, Hunters of the Heartlands

Chainrasps: 30 Chainrasps, Hunters of the Heartlands

Hexwraiths: 5 Hexwraiths

Hexwraiths: 5 Hexwraiths

Spirit Hosts: 3 Spirit Hosts

+ Other +

Bladegheist Revenants: 10 Bladegheist Revenants, Hunters of the Heartlands

Nighthaunt: The Grieving Legion
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

Idea is simple - two big blobs of rasps under unholy trinity (GoS, Torment, Cruciator) with hexwraiths and bladegheists as counter-charge.  

Another variant  is 20 rasps 20 reapers 6 hosts. Same points.

When we need to stay - general says Discorporate to first blob, Harrow copy it to second.

When we need to attack - generals says AOA to first blob, Harrow copy it to second.

KoSoES here to lead the attack and debuff with -1 to wound.

WoT gives -1 to hit.

Cruciator covers for -1 damage.

Torment and GoS take up buddies.

And hosts here are for babysitting our heroes.

So the talk of the town is "hero hammer" and death stars again, and if we go the latter route I see Emerald Host and Grieving Legion as the processions to tap into that natural play style. In a death star only one of the units would actually have to be the one with 10 models, so I could see a double-enforced Chainrasp unit with Reapers behind them as your core that'll never get below 10.

[The_Dudemeister]

I completely slept on Hexwraiths getting the extra d6 from the advance roll after using Phantasmal Advance. I just assumed it was flat 24". Thankfully an opponent of mine clarified that for me, otherwise I wouldn't have second-guessed it 👌

 

[lare2]

10 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

I completely slept on Hexwraiths getting the extra d6 from the advance roll after using Phantasmal Advance. I just assumed it was flat 24". Thankfully an opponent of mine clarified that for me, otherwise I wouldn't have second-guessed it 👌

 

Think what made me miss it was the word advance on the scroll. In 40k advance means run. 30"... that's basically teleporting. 

[EnixLHQ]

2 hours ago, lare2 said:

Think what made me miss it was the word advance on the scroll. In 40k advance means run. 30"... that's basically teleporting. 

Teleporting without the 9" rule, even.

[Causalis]

Just got home from 2000p vs, Ironjawz. 

Lists:

Spoiler

Nighthaunt

Emerald Host

Lady O w/ Seal of Shyish

Krulghast w/ Lightshard

GoS (General) w/ MoM, Arcane Tome, Soul Cage

Lord Executioner

20 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

20 Grimghast Reapers

10 Dreadscythe Harridans

3 Spirit Hosts

3 Spirit Hosts

5 Hexwraiths

Ironjawz

Mawcrusha

Mawcrusha

Warchanta

Warchanta

Warchanta

3 Gruntas

3 Gruntas

3 Gruntas

3 Gruntas

Turn 1

Spoiler

He deploys first, gives me first turn. Mission is Tectonic Interference with 3 objectives down the middle.

I roll a 1 for Emerald Host and choose 2 of his Warchantas.

I put nothing in the underworlds because his army is fast enough to charge me turn 1 and then my units would be 9" away. So instead I screened with my Hexwraiths and Chainrasps and castled up in the middle of the board. Everything but the Hexwraiths were in 12" of my Krulghast. Lady O cast the 5++ on my 20 Chainrasps and I moved up a bit to claim all 3 objectives and brace for his turn.

Everything bar 1 Mawcrusha and the Warchantas made their charge and crashed into my 10 and 20 Chainrasps and the Hexwraiths. He easily killed the Hexwraiths because they were outside of 12" from my Krulghast. The 20 Chainrasps successfully tanked his Mawcrusha and 3 Gruntas. The Krulghast definitely was the MVP this game since all his Gruntas now only did 1dmg on their attacks! 9 other Gruntas barely killed my 10 Chainrasps (I used Discorporate on them).

Turn 2

Spoiler

I win priority. The curse does 3 mortals to each Warchanta. GoS casts Soul Cage on the Mawcrusha in my midst and uses his warscroll spell to return 3 Rasps. Lady O fails Seal of Shyish but gets her warscroll spell of, targeting a unit of pigs. All my units that are in combat retreat. Olynder rolls for Lifting the Veil and... gets a 6, lol. Big chunk of damage on the Mawcrusha! Krulghast shoots at some pigs, dealing 2 wounds which will help my Harridans that are ready for the counter-charge.

My whole army charges. One fights-last result, a few -1 save and lots of -1 to-hit. Krulghast unleashes the Lightshard. After combat his Mawcrusha is left on 2 wounds, one unit of pigs is dead, one has 1 model left and the other two units have 2 pigs left each, with each one having a hurt model. I lose a few models here and there but nothing serious. Olynder sadly eats the mega-stomp from the Mawcrusha. I charged her in thinking I would kill the Mawcrusha and thus she wasn't in range of my Spirit Hosts. I hold 2 of 3 objectives.

On his turn he kills Olynder, sadly, but doesn't do much else.

Turn 3

Spoiler

I get priority again and my opponent concedes. He still had 1 Mawcrusha but that's about it. He wouldn't have been able to take objectives from me and I would likely have killed all his remaining pigs.

So in conclusion:

• Krulghast is very, very good against multi-damage attacks (no surprises here)
• Lord Executioner feels like a good combat character and having his debuff active in the enemy's turn is very valuable!
• A "castle"-playstyle feels quite viable. Yes, we are fast but we also want to stay in our 12" buff/debuff bubbles. So the army moves more like a coherent block than everyone going independent. 
• 2" reach on the Grimghasts is a godsend.

[lare2]

14 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

Teleporting without the 9" rule, even.

Just a shame we can't then charge! I've actually toyed with the idea of just whacking a blob of 15 Hex 3" from their faces first turn, loaded up with Shademist and Seal of Shyish. That'll be hard to shift and will cause real panic with their home objective. Lot of points though...

[Benlisted]

5 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

So the talk of the town is "hero hammer" and death stars again, and if we go the latter route I see Emerald Host and Grieving Legion as the processions to tap into that natural play style. In a death star only one of the units would actually have to be the one with 10 models, so I could see a double-enforced Chainrasp unit with Reapers behind them as your core that'll never get below 10.

What's the herohammer type of build looking like list wise? I'd assume Kurdoss and some LEs?

[The_Dudemeister]

2 hours ago, Causalis said:

I roll a 1 for Emerald Host and choose 2 of his Warchantas

Putting the curse on the itty-bitty Warchantas instead of the two huge and scary Mawkrushas... I see you know that army well 😁👌

[EnixLHQ]

3 hours ago, Benlisted said:

What's the herohammer type of build looking like list wise? I'd assume Kurdoss and some LEs?

I don't have any lists just yet, but what I've seen thrown around is something along the lines of:

• Spirit Torment and Chainghasts
• Krulgast
• Guardian of Souls
• Knight of Shrouds (either)
• Kurdoss
• Flex hero - Cairn Wraith, Lord Executioner, Olynder
• Troops: Myrmourn Banshees, Spirit Hosts, Hexwraiths
• Endless Spell: Terminexus

The idea being that all these heroes either buff (and thus sit near the center) or swing, with the Terminexus healing any chip damage, Spirit Hosts/ST healing any bodyguard damage, and the Myrmourn eating any offensive spells lobbed their way. Krulghast reduces damage, yadda yadda.

Basically, a castle but the heroes are the ones swinging and the troops are other buffers except the Hexwraiths who claim objectives.

Viable? No idea. 

[Ranzou]

9 hours ago, Benlisted said:

What's the herohammer type of build looking like list wise? I'd assume Kurdoss and some LEs?

Here I tried exactly that type of roster - pure herohammer. Big blob of haunt flesh with overlapping buffs.

Also - found interesting thing - executioner became much more brutal with 2" reach and 5 -2 2 attacks.

As all what we know 5+ ability to steal CPs from Kurdoss happens... never? So, I found idea to change him for Executioner in the roster above.

-1 attack, -1 rend, but stable passive debuff to highest threat for -1 to wound, freed points can be exchanged for additional hexwraith unit, which is great.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Ranzou

[Rors]

I think for a hero hammer blog the executioner is going to be really good as a cheaper character who can brawl and debuff. Reikenor is also surprisingly good in my experience as a wizard who can get up in the thick of it

The GoS and Krulghast sit in an odd space as they're amazing force multipliers but not great as front line beaters. Position to keep them in range but also safe will be the trick. Same goes with spirit host who don't really offer anything in punch, you just want them soaking up wounds, so having them in combat may not be ideal but if they don't also charge you'll probably be out of range.

16 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

 

I have to kind of agree with them about the Black Coach, but I really didn't want to. But Tom was right when he asked "what does it do" and no one could really answer that. It currently doesn't do anything other than be exceptionally beautiful on the field, but that won't be enough to draw fire or deal damage, and it's too expensive to just run out and sit on an objective.

Sigh. I hope they revise it.

In terms of role I'd say it's a weird kind of bully/distraction/utility/assassin piece. Which yeah, makes it unfocused and that historical means not great. If I was using one I'd aim to kill of small weak units if they have them in the early game (bully), maybe grab an extra VP from an objective or pop up somewhere annoying or near something that's about to be murdered by another unit (utility/distraction), then is the mid to late game you can use it to assassinate a support character or a weakened monster. It's something that'll never win it's points back if you have one job in mind for it. That said, to do that, the game needs to play out the right way. You need small stuff to bully early on, and they need an exposed character you can drop down next to assassinate late game etc. I reckon someone who loves the model and keeps playing games with it will probably end up being able to justify it and because it's a great model I suspect someone will. Just like you hear AoS coach interview someone who won a tournament with an off meta list because they learned that list inside out every now and then.

[DionTheWanderer]

Sorry if this has been posted already - isn't there a typo in the rules for the Shadow's Edge artefact?

It says that it causes D3 MW if the wound roll is a 6 - but then says do not make a wound or save roll?

I suspect it's if the hit roll is a 6, as otherwise it's a bit rubbish on a high rend D2 weapon!

 

Could be nice on a Cairn Wraith....

 

Edit: In addition, Cairn Wraith has attacks equal to models within 3", but doesn't have to attack that unit. So an attack on a support hero, while numbering the attacks based on the models in their bodyguard unit could get quite nasty. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by DionTheWanderer

[lare2]

6 hours ago, DionTheWanderer said:

I suspect it's if the hit roll is a 6, as otherwise it's a bit rubbish on a high rend D2 weapon!

Hope you're right. That would make sense. 

[The_Dudemeister]

Interesting, I assumed it was hit rolls... and still dismissed it as one of our weaker relics.

But yeah, the usual design of mortals on hits end the attack sequence, while mortals on wounds are in addition. Exceptions, as always, prove the rule! 😏

So there's a solid chance that this in indeed a typo

[Neck-Romantic]

I still dont understand how Hexwraith's spectral scythe has a 1" range... grimghasts' scythes are 2" range... cavalry with 2 handed polearms with ahort range is goofy

[Rors]

3 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I still dont understand how Hexwraith's spectral scythe has a 1" range... grimghasts' scythes are 2" range... cavalry with 2 handed polearms with ahort range is goofy

It does seem goofy. I guess if you need to justify it in your mind thematically, being on horseback puts you further back and they're flying over the units so if their weapons are the same length as grimghast the loose an inch due to having to reach further to get passed their own horses?