AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[darkdaysdawn]

16 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

While no longer being able to heroic recovery while within 3" of an enemy is unquestionably a nerf, I think you may have misread this change. It does d3 healing if the 2d6 is less than or equal to your bravery. So in that regard it was improved.

I certainly did miss the or equal!  Thanks!

So it's still as effective (in fact, slightly more effective), just not usable when we need it most.  Sigh.

[LordPrometheus]

It really is a shame that GW seems to have almost abandoned this faction in 3.0. We were pretty decent at the end of 2.0, but man... being unable to use half the special rules of the new edition really blows. 

[darkdaysdawn]

Just now, LordPrometheus said:

being unable to use half the special rules of the new edition really blows. 

FWIW, among my closer game buddies, I've taken back Mystic Shield (I use the new 3.0 version), and since All Out D and the rest of the new abilities are all basically the same type of bonus, I use those too.  When I asked if this was ok with them, at least a couple said, "I thought Ethereal was just *ignore rend* anyway?  Yeah, that's dumb.  You should get the new abilities."  Not only did they not care, but a few thought that's how NH worked anyway, so to them this wasn't a change.

It makes the games way less one-sided, and NH is actually enjoyable again.  They're still not very competitive, but at least you're playing the same game as your buddies.  And it certainly does not make NH OP (especially vs 27" range poisonous Shooter-boyz lists).

[darkdaysdawn]

2 minutes ago, darkdaysdawn said:

I've taken back Mystic Shield (I use the new 3.0 version), and since All Out D and the rest of the new abilities are all basically the same type of bonus, I use those too.

To be clear:  I have essentially rewritten Ethereal to be "This model ignores rend from enemy attacks and can not gain the benefit of cover".  (I don't know why NH didn't get cover in 2.0, but whatever...for consistency, I kept that the same).

Edited December 22, 2021 by darkdaysdawn

[Dogmantra]

1 hour ago, LordPrometheus said:

It really is a shame that GW seems to have almost abandoned this faction in 3.0.

I can't help but feel it's because a new tome is on the horizon and they aren't spending resources on rewrites that will quickly be obsoleted by a new book. I mean, now that the new Nurgle book is out, NH is the second (?) oldest book left in the game. Plus they've done a new Order, Chaos & Destruction book so far. Well, I at least hope it's because a new tome is on the horizon. Still would have been nice to have something small like keeping the old mystic shield if they don't want any access to +1s.

[darkdaysdawn]

44 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

I can't help but feel it's because a new tome is on the horizon and they aren't spending resources on rewrites that will quickly be obsoleted by a new book. I mean, now that the new Nurgle book is out, NH is the second (?) oldest book left in the game. Plus they've done a new Order, Chaos & Destruction book so far. Well, I at least hope it's because a new tome is on the horizon.

That's an optimistic viewpoint I hadn't considered:  Doing one book from each G.Alliance seems like an elegant approach.  Fingers crossed!

I had to check, because FEC is very old too, but it's from 2019 and NH is 2018, so of the two, I would hope NH is the next Death army to get a book.  

[EnixLHQ]

6 hours ago, spenson said:

I'm not sure if we can take Nagash as our sole general. If yes then it could deny a battle tactics from the opponent since it's the only monster in the army. 

You cannot. You need a faction general in order to have a complete army. Nagash counts as a general-in-addition and is not factioned.

Nothing stops you from making a Cairn Wraith a general, though.

[EnixLHQ]

To those of you that are new here, welcome!

To those of you feeling like we got nerfed or passed over, it's very natural and you've come to the right place. Please look around.

To those of you feeling like Games Workshop has completely abandoned Nighthaunt, the support group meets daily and we've got cookies.

[Nagashfan]

Nagash should be 700 points

[spenson]

9 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

You cannot. You need a faction general in order to have a complete army. Nagash counts as a general-in-addition and is not factioned.

Nothing stops you from making a Cairn Wraith a general, though.

I don't really agree with you. In the core rulebook it says "After you have picked your army, you must pick 1 model in your army to be your general" (cf 1.4.2 core rulebook) and Nagash warmaster ability is "This unit can be included in a Nighthaunt [...] army. If it is, it is treated as a general even if it is not the model picked to be the army’s general.". Since he's not an ally (cf 25.8 core rulebook) I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Also the wording "even if it is not the model picked to be the army’s general" implies that there's a case where we can take Nagash as general.

Taking a cairn wraith as a general totally defeats the purpose of preventing our opponent from ever scoring both the battle tactics to kill a monster and kill the general. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by spenson

[stato]

Currently building up a load of units from the various army boxes i collected last few years but wondering, do any of you weight your bases?  Mine will be/are magnetized for transport but I continually struggled with models falling over when bumped or tangled when playing some small P2G games with the 700pts I have painted.

[ArcaneLore74]

Hi guys. I’ve been playing around with Nighthaunt Nagash builds now that the big man is part of the team.

What about this list:

1 drop

Mortal wounds for days

Maximises Nagash's 3 wound return potential (plus Lady O’s return ability you could be bringing back 8 Spirit Host and 2 Hexwraiths a turn lol)

Lifeswarm for healing (plus heroic recovery, spectral tether etc)

Krulghast to make the spirit host even more of a tarpit and synergise with Nagash's +1 ward for a 4+ ethereal 4+ ward

With all of the amazing hit and wound debuffs you can put out with Nagash and Lady O plus the arcane bolt machine gun and soul cage you could manipulate the action to a certain extent

[Sutek]

Can Nagash's new command ability stack with the Cruciator's empowering excrutiation ability to give a unit a 4+ ward save?

 

 

[ArcaneLore74]

Yes, I think so.

[darkdaysdawn]

10 hours ago, Nagashfan said:

Nagash should be 700 points

Edited....

How about 810 so he can play with two chainrasp hordes in a 1k list? 

Edited December 23, 2021 by darkdaysdawn

[darkdaysdawn]

8 hours ago, stato said:

Currently building up a load of units from the various army boxes i collected last few years but wondering, do any of you weight your bases? 

Some of the grimghast reapers are a bit front heavy, even if you mount them at the back of the base.  I have two 4mm x 2mm under each one, and that isn't enough weight to make a difference.  I've been considering the smallest lead-free fishing weights I can find -- just CA glue one under the back of the base on each of the offending poses (not all the reapers have this issue).

Other than reapers, no issues. 

[dmorley21]

Got my first game in with Nagash…

Wow! Changes things for us even more than I thought. 

[lare2]

28 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

Got my first game in with Nagash…

Wow! Changes things for us even more than I thought. 

Haway, the suspense is killing me. Did you win? How'd it go?

[Nagashfan]

3 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Got my first game in with Nagash…

Wow! Changes things for us even more than I thought. 

Please share how it went, I want to find a strong list for nagash and I don’t think it’s in obr or sbgl anymore

[dmorley21]

Okay, sorry about the quick little comment. It was a long game earlier today when I had some time off, but then got busy. Anyway, it was my first game using Nagash. 

My list was:

Emerald Host / Prized Sorcery

Nagash / Olynder (General, Reaping Scythe) / Krulghast (Midnight Tome / Reaping Scythe)

5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 10 Harridans

Spellportal / Burning Head

I played against Rocco (RoccoYaBoy on YouTube and Twitter) on TTS. He was running a new iteration of a Deepkin list he's been thinking about, so it was a learning game for us both. I might get his list a bit wrong, but it was:

Mor'Phann / Dominating Presence

Isharann Tidecaster (general) / Souldrender / Soulrender / Aspect of the Sea

20 Reavers / 10 Thralls / 10 Thralls / 3 Ishlaen Guard / 3 Ishlaen Guard / 3 Ishlaen Guard 

Leviadon

I won't go blow for blow, but we played Tectonic Interference. He was cool with Hexwraiths bodyguarding Nagash, but I decided not to play it that way because I want to know how good he is at his worse. Answer: pretty, pretty good. 

I called it after 3 turns though the game would have gone done to the wire due to time (it took us 4 1/2 hours to get to that point... we were very much learning). 

In that time though, Nagash: 

• Shutdown every opposing spell but one in turns 2 and 3 (placed him out of range turn 1)
• Along with Olynder, kept the two nearby units of Hexwraiths alive through some serious damage (they combine to res 4)
• Singlehandedly went in and killed the Aspect of the Sea (had a 2+ and 5+ ward) 
• Singlehandedly went in and got broken ranks taking out the unit of Reavers and gaining a bonus point
• Healed back all of the wounds that he took through Lifestealer and his warscroll spell. 

The due does work. I was losing by a decent amount when I called it, but was clawing my way back in and would've come close to tabling the Idoneth. 

I'm not sure my list was optimized, and I definitely made mistakes. I went with models I already owned apart from Nagash and the spells. It's going to take some playtesting - you can't just show up with Nagash and think you can win. But he brings everything Nighthaunt have ever wanted and changes the game for the ghosts. 

When I called it, the casualties were:

10 Hexwraiths / 10 Harridans

7 Ishlaen Guard (2 units of 1 left) / 20 Reavers / 6 Thralls / Aspect of the Sea

So even though I was a very low wound list, I was more than making up for it with my output. I don't remember ever thinking that with a Nighthaunt list in the past. 

On that note, happy holidays. Hope some of you get to give Nagash a test run or two. 

[dmorley21]

It’s just occurring to me that Nagash isn’t an ally. I think this means we can still take allies. As such, I present The Super Friends:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Emerald Host
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: 

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead(970)
- Allies
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night(380)
- Allies
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215)

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)
5 x Hexwraiths (150)
5 x Hexwraiths (150)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 1350 / 400
Wounds: 65
Drops: 6

[Nagashfan]

Army Faction: Nighthaunt
    - Army Subfaction: Emerald Host
    - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
    - Triumps: Prized Sorcery

LEADER

Nagash (955)

Lady Olynder (215)
    - General

Krulghast Cruciator (120)

BATTLELINE

Hexwraiths (150)

Hexwraiths (150)

1 x Spirit Hosts (250)

OTHER

Dreadscythe Harridans (160)

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

thoughts on my list?

[Rors]

4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

It’s just occurring to me that Nagash isn’t an ally. I think this means we can still take allies.

Haha, how about Nagash and a mega-gargant?

[That Guy]

On 12/24/2021 at 4:45 AM, dmorley21 said:

It’s just occurring to me that Nagash isn’t an ally. I think this means we can still take allies

Hmmmmm. You know at first i liked it. Sure you can use Mannfred as a hammer unit, but so much of his kit in terms of abilities affect SBG units that i feel his points are wasted. He can’t be general either, because that only works in SBG and he can only access universal lore. 

On 12/24/2021 at 5:22 AM, Nagashfan said:

thoughts on my list?

I think it’s solid in terms of being able to survive. Any reason why you went for a reinforced Spirit Host unit? By splitting them up you now: 

1. Don’t have to deal with worsened unit coherency.

2. You actually benefit twice from Nagash’s Invocation and Olynders CA, because now you have 2 units instead of 1. 

3. More spread of units since these lists are very restricted. Being able to spread some forces can be useful.

I would love to get some feedback on my attempt of a list as well. In my attempt of a list with Nagash i try to get several tools on the board. Hard hitters, some anti chaff and i try to be as survivable as possible, trying to maximize on Nagash’s Invocation over 5 units, while bodyguarding both Nagash and Olynder with hexwraiths. Chainrasps can screen the Reapers allowing them to hit over them. My approach tries to have some more bodies on the field that revive and can contest objectives. The one thing i don’t like about it is that there’s no room for an endless spell, which can matter a lot. I also have my eyes on a Soul Guardian with Immortality Glass, because these lists can truelly strife for greatness with control utility heroes like those. Although i think the Cruciator would have to be dropped in that situation… so i don’t know what’s possible with that critter. Anyways:

Spoiler

Army Faction: Nighthaunt
    - Army Subfaction: Emerald Host
    - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
    - Triumps: Inspired

LEADER

Nagash (955)*

Lady Olynder (215)*
    - General
    - Spells: Shademist

Krulghast Cruciator (120)*
    - Artefacts: Midnight Tome
    - Spells: Reaping Scythe

BATTLELINE

Hexwraiths (150)*

Hexwraiths (150)*

Chainrasp Horde (95)*

Grimghast Reapers (155)*

OTHER

Dreadscythe Harridans (160)*

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

Also… when do they decide to give Olynder the Warmaster ability… she’s a Mortarch of all things. That would allow us to general our third hero, get to bodyguard that and gain a warlord trait.

Edited January 31, 2022 by That Guy

[Nagashfan]

19 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I think it’s solid in terms of being able to survive. Any reason why you went for a reinforced Spirit Host unit? By splitting them up you now: 

I doubled up to try and take advantage of nagash’s new + to ward save and make them a very hard unit to remove… either way works for different reasons I think