AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[Liquidsteel]

I was gonna say the same, second regiment has Radukar plus two units of Blood Knights and this is the one you drop first.

Put both (or just 1) off the board so you can fish for a little bit more info from your opponent with the extra drop, then deploy the rest.

No need to go full 50/50.

 

[Honk]

7 minutes ago, Craze said:

I guess, I will try something like this:

Looks mean 🤩

not quite sure if flank protection and stuff for Nagash might not be better done by wolves (instead of skellis)…

 

but I lack the experience vs Mooohoooo cows 

[Warbossironteef]

Imo Nagash should almost always come with Lifeswarm. He needs to stay healthy to get his pluses to cast. Just my opinion though.

[Warbossironteef]

18 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

The same thing every other list does: keep it away from your critical stuff and try to kill everything else/win on objectives.

I don't know that there is any army out there that can reliably kill Archaon if the Archaon player is careful. Just try to minimize his damage by zoning him out, retreating during your turn if he is engaged etc.

I've been getting in some reps with Nagash and enjoying it a lot. So far I have used two builds:

Build 1:

  Reveal hidden contents

Vyrkos Dynasty

Nagash

Necromancer (general, pack alpha, amulet, overwhelming dread)

Radukar the Wolf (pinions)

2 Kosargi Nightguard

2x40 Zombies

1x20 Zombies

Spellportal

1 Drop Battle Regiment

Build 2:

  Hide contents

Legion of Night

Nagash

Necromancer (general, Master of Magic, Morbheg's Claw, Levitate)

Radukar the Beast

2x20 Zombies

1x40 Zombies

Spellportal

Lifeswarm

2 Drop Battle Regiment

This can alternately be built with lil Raddie and either 2 nightguard and 3 bats or 4 nightguard as a 1 drop

I found that you're 100% correct about the Necromancer in Vyrkos. Vanhels very rarely resolved. I also even ran into some issues with Nagash against heavy anti-magic like Seraphon. If he gets bracketed down to +2 or even +1 to cast it's very hard for him to recover, and this really limits your tactical flexibility.

With the Vyrkos build I was typically swimming in CP and rarely if ever ran out. I've only gotten one game in with the second list so far but when going first in a battle round it was definitely a bit constraining (particularly the first round where you want to use Nagash's CA and Radukar's summon.

The Legion of Night version gives you a MUCH better chance of resolving Vanhels and can even help Nagash out against heavy anti magic/bracketing. I hate losing Pack Alpha, but I think it might be worth it.

Just cobbled together a solid victory against Idoneth in which I miscast on Nagash on his second spell on turn 1 and then got double turned 1->2 XD.

Overall I'm not super sold on Belladamma in a Nagash list. I'm just not afraid of shooting against Nagash except a Lumineth list that is bringing a lot of sentinels, and Belladamma doesn't help so much against that given the 4+ spell ignore and 5+ ward. Most shooting is rend 1 at best, which is easy to negate with All out Defense. You can even ignore rend 2 once per game with Finest Hour. Even a double volley from Morathi Stalkers is only 5 mortal wounds on average. Very easy to heal through.

Do we know 100%  if Nagash gets the Legion of Night keyword if taken under Legion of NIght? He gets teh Soulblight keyword so I'm guess The Cursed Bloodlines rules then applies to him? 

 

I really like that Legion of Night tech.

The only thing about your list is I don't like spamming Zombies as much with Nagash as I do in other lists. I think units like Skellies, Direwolves and GG are more cost efficient with Nagash because they actually benefit from reroll 1 of saves and the reroll to hit. Zombies dont. That said, 40 battleshock Zombies are not bad for 230 I just think other units pair better with Nagash.

I would look to at least bring 30 Skellies or 20 GG.

 

[Honk]

1 hour ago, Warbossironteef said:

He gets teh Soulblight keyword so I'm guess The Cursed Bloodlines rules then applies to him? 

Yes… if taken, he get the SBGL keyword and with it the Lineage keyword, too. Tricky thing is, that he doesn’t have the VAMPIRE keyword, which is needed for a lot of dynasty abilities, actually the only one he can use is the LoN ambush.

[Warbossironteef]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

Yes… if taken, he get the SBGL keyword and with it the Lineage keyword, too. Tricky thing is, that he doesn’t have the VAMPIRE keyword, which is needed for a lot of dynasty abilities, actually the only one he can use is the LoN ambush.

Thanks. I thought so. He can also benefit from Morbhegs Claw "Legion of Night Wizards" 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Warbossironteef

[Eldarain]

Hey my unliving friends. I'm looking to have an army from each Alliance and I'm torn between Soulblight and Nighthaunt.

Here's the kind of thing I'd hope to run. I really like the summonable buff stacking and enemy debuffs. I think the Mortarchs complement each other well and access the superior lore.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers.

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Night
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Vampire Lord (140) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Necromancer (125) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Command Trait: Unbending Will
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Dire Wolves (135) in Battle Regiment

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment

Core Battalions
Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164
 

 

 

 

 

[Warbossironteef]

2 hours ago, Eldarain said:

Hey my unliving friends. I'm looking to have an army from each Alliance and I'm torn between Soulblight and Nighthaunt.

Here's the kind of thing I'd hope to run. I really like the summonable buff stacking and enemy debuffs. I think the Mortarchs complement each other well and access the superior lore.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers.

 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Legion of Night
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood (365)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Vampire Lord (140) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike
Necromancer (125) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Command Trait: Unbending Will
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Dire Wolves (135) in Battle Regiment

Units
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment

Core Battalions
Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164
 

That type of list looks fine. You're not getting too much of Legion of Night but it looks pretty good. I'd consider taking the +2 to cast artefact because none of your casters have any bonuses to cast. Id also consider giving your Vamp lord Pinons spell to help him get into position to give his buff out. His CA is a small range. I'm not the biggest fan of that model but you can make it work! 

Skellies and GG are also great options to buff.

 

 

 

 

[Eldarain]

@Warbossironteef I really like those ideas. Thank you. We tend to have a ton of hero sniping around here hence my doubling down on keeping the Vanhel/battleshock bubble necro alive.

Will definitely try both to see if the zombie shrug is up to the task alone though.

Appreciate your help.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 hours ago, Honk said:

Yes… if taken, he get the SBGL keyword and with it the Lineage keyword, too. Tricky thing is, that he doesn’t have the VAMPIRE keyword, which is needed for a lot of dynasty abilities, actually the only one he can use is the LoN ambush.

I honestly didn't realize until now that you can ambush with Nagash in Legion of Night. Definitely a fun option.

I wonder, though, if it's really the best place for Nagash. Ambushing happens at the end of your movement phase, so no matter what you do, if you ambush with Nagash you lose out on at least one hero phase worth of casting. Honestly hard to justify. Morbegh's Claw is cool, but I don't personally like how it restricts movement for Nagash, who really can't afford to just hang back. Also, if you really want a cast bonus, you can get +1 from a Corpse Cart (also wholly within 12") for 80 points.

 

10 hours ago, Eldarain said:

Hey my unliving friends. I'm looking to have an army from each Alliance and I'm torn between Soulblight and Nighthaunt.

Here's the kind of thing I'd hope to run. I really like the summonable buff stacking and enemy debuffs. I think the Mortarchs complement each other well and access the superior lore.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers.

I had not considered double mortarchs before, but honestly the idea is pretty cool. It used to be kind of a trap in Legions of Nagash, but I think it's definitely time to re-evaluate that judgement. Both mortarchs are really sweet in the new battletome and edition.

[Liquidsteel]

I've mentioned it before, and it's obviously not intended, however as it stands you can make a RUN after using Morbheg's Claw.

Will it get FAQ'd, probably not, unless someone goes and wins an event and it get's talked about.

But it can help to keep Nagash in range of the 12" at least for an extra turn perhaps.

[Liquidsteel]

Also I don't think it's worth Ambushing Nagash unless you're really scared of something e.g. 30 Sentinels plus quadruple foxes shooting him off the board turn 1, where you win the battle of the 1 drops and put the opponent in first, banking on a double turn 1-2 to mess up his plans etc.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Liquidsteel

[Honk]

25 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

unless you're really scared of

My tactics are failing meeeee….😰🤯

Deepstriking Nagash sounds stupid, but yes, there might be convoluted strange happenings out there, when it might be interesting to try 😆

33 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

you can make a RUN after using Morbheg's Claw.

Yes, that is true… I guess the rules Writer was in a hurry.
Screws up the retreat with our slow poke infantry, since you‘ll have to get every model out of 3“ with only the 4“ move. Tricky if your engaged with two units or being wrapped around on one side

[RuneBrush]

Just in case you've not spotted it, but @Overread and I are doing a "Tale of Two Moderators" challenge and I've gone for Soulblight Gravelords as my army 😁  Planning on a fairly monster heavy list, but with a few non-monster units so that I can do path to glory  games without my opponent refusing to play against me!

Current list is looking like:

Quote

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Avengorii Dynasty
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- Deathlance
10 x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)
Terrorgheist (305)

Total: 825

Yeah, it's not that inspiring yet 🤣  I've plans on a converted Vengorian Lord (or two!) and likely add another couple of Terrorgheist.  Also have the Vargskyr and a Vampire Lord that may well be added for those lower end games.  Feel free to contribute to the thread and make suggestions - not aiming for top meta but equally do want something with a bit of bite 🦇

 

 

[Honk]

4 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

not aiming for top meta but equally do want something with a bit of bite 🦇

I guess it is more casual than a Kasteleii list with double Knights instead of gheist and skellis 🤣

It goes against the spirit of the monster mash, but belladamma and 10 wolves would give you mobile caster support…

so your second terrorgheist can charge into the blissbarb archers 😖

[Eldarain]

9 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

I've mentioned it before, and it's obviously not intended, however as it stands you can make a RUN after using Morbheg's Claw.

Will it get FAQ'd, probably not, unless someone goes and wins an event and it get's talked about.

But it can help to keep Nagash in range of the 12" at least for an extra turn perhaps.

Definitely feels a bit exploitative as the book was written under a ruleset where it did stop the run.

[Phasteon]

Rules Question:

Zombies have Save - 

Corpsecart can give +1 to Save rolls for Zombies. 

How can a Zombie ever roll for a Save when it has no Save value? 

Is there a rule that says „a Save characteristic of - is treated as being 7+„ ?? 

Im kinda confused and I face Gravelords soon. 

 

[Liquidsteel]

24 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Is there a rule that says „a Save characteristic of - is treated as being 7+„ ?? 

 

 

Yes, I believe it's in one of the FAQ's or perhaps in the core rules itself.

[Liquidsteel]

2 hours ago, Eldarain said:

Definitely feels a bit exploitative as the book was written under a ruleset where it did stop the run.

Yeah the original artefact was, but the new tome was written with 3.0 in mind (e.g. Blood Knights retreat and charge, points staying the same).

I don't disagree that's gamey, and you can choose to use it or not to use it depending on how serious a game you are having, but it's certainly a trick worth remembering if you want to.

[TechnoVampire]

Hi all, 

This is my proposed Kastelai - Blood Knights army. I'm yet to play AOS 3.0, but looking for something fun, fast and fairly hard hitting. I always wanted to play with 2 x mounted zombie dragons and with new rules I feel like Vhordria and VLOZD work really well together. I'm considering taking one unit of 10 Blood Knights as oposed to 2 x 5 for a more survivable unit, and was also thinking of using emerald lifeswarm to help keep things alive (Also makes the army 1 drop) as oposed to Fell Bats who are just there to fill up points/ grab objectives. Skeletons are there for a tar-pit unit of bodies and objective camping. Any feedback apreciatted: 

Allegiance: Soulblight Gravelords
- Lineage: Kastelai Dynasty
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

LEADERS

Prince Vhordrai (455) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Command Trait: Rousing Commander
- Vampiric Sword
- Artefact: Sword of the Red Seneschals
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

UNITS
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
5 x Blood Knights (195) in Battle Regiment
30 x Deathrattle Skeletons (255) in Battle Regiment
3 x Fell Bats (75)

CORE BATTALIONS
Battle Regiment

Edited July 29, 2021 by TechnoVampire

[Eldarain]

@TechnoVampire i wouldn't bump the knights to 10 as that coherency change sucks.

Will have to be a 2 drop though as you can't fit two monster heroes into a Battle Regiment.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Eldarain

[RuneBrush]

15 hours ago, Honk said:

It goes against the spirit of the monster mash, but belladamma and 10 wolves would give you mobile caster support…

It's a thought!  Depending on how I get on with the bits I've started, I'll see how I fancy doing this.  One of the things I'm trying not to do is to over commit.  I've done it in the past where I jump into a project with both feet and get bored with it half way through and a load of my planned ideas go out the window to get it finished 🤣

[TechnoVampire]

10 hours ago, Eldarain said:

@TechnoVampire i wouldn't bump the knights to 10 as that coherency change sucks.

Will have to be a 2 drop though as you can't fit two monster heroes into a Battle Regiment.

@Eldarain thanks, that’s a good point… also I misread the battalion and thought it could include 2 monsters, so thanks for correcting that.

I’ll play around with the last 75 points and see what works best.

I’m also not sure whether to take the sword or lance  on VLOZD more attacks seems nice with the flaming weapon/ Kastelia buffs, but the charge bonus for Lance is hefty.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

42 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

I’m also not sure whether to take the sword or lance  on VLOZD more attacks seems nice with the flaming weapon/ Kastelia buffs, but the charge bonus for Lance is hefty.

I'd personally go with the lance. The high damage charge is significant because front loading your damage is good and the lance outdamages the sword over two round if you get the charge once.

I'm not a fan of Flaming Weapon, personally. In this edition, Arcane Bolt deals 1d3 mortal wounds (so 2 wounds on average) and is just slightly harder to cast. If Flaming weapons wants to compete with that it needs to deal at least 2 damage on average after saves. An attack profile of 3+/3+ to hit and wound deals damage about 50% of the time. The average save you go up against is probably at least a 4+ on all targets where extra damage matters. So you would probably need to have 8 attacks at 3+/3+ before Flaming Weapons becomes as good as Arcane Bolt.

Now, there is more to take into account here, such as rend and whether you have any other wizards that want to cast Arcane Bolt. In your list, I would probably try for Mystic Shield, Arcane Bolt or Amethystine Pinions on the VLoZD most of the time.

[Warbossironteef]

Last time I'll post a list on here for awhile but I think after a few games I've finally fine tuned a decent version of Zombie list. We all know how important Necromancer's spell is and I've found without support it doesn't go off. Legion of Night helps with this and also offers some additional utility with Unholy Impetus.

You could also remove Gorslav and lean more into Skellies and additional GG but I just dont have those models. I think this is a all around solid Zombie list if anyone else is looking to bring 100+ zombies. I wish the Unholy Impetus was a bigger range so it may not always work out but I'm interested to try it. The other attack buffing pieces in the book I'm not a fan of, regular Vamp Lord on foot being one of them. 

LEADERS
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435) in Command Entourage
- General
- Command Trait: Unholy Impetus
- Deathlance
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night (380) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Deathmages: Decrepify
Necromancer (125) in Command Entourage
- Artefact: Morbheg's Claw
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Gorslav the Gravekeeper (75) in Command Entourage
UNITS
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
40 x Deadwalker Zombies (230) in Battle Regiment
20 x Grave Guard (280) in Battle Regiment
- Great Wight Blades
TOTAL: 1985/2000