AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

That makes me very sad.

However thanks for your report!

 

cheers

Up until the last book they were still grindy. Legions of Nagash book defined attrition. This is just a more refined version of it...all death factions are basically attrition but have some elite options.

[Malakithe]

27 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Read that again, mate. We fast roll to save time, but dice rolls happen one at a time:

 - For each slain model, roll a dice
 - If you roll a 4+, you return one model

Wording is perfectly fine. 

I wouldnt say perfectly fine...tons of people pouring over the leaks are saying this needs to be FAQ'd 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

56 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

I'm at a loss with LoN and not interested in Avengorii. More synergies for early theorycrafting? Where'd you see Black Knights shining? 

i think Legion of Night is just the goodstuff subfaction. It gives you generally usefull bonuses (teleporting, counter charge, +saves...) but doesn't pay off one type of unit in particular. Might actually be a good fit for Black Knights. Counter-charging a unit with them and lifting it with mortal wounds seems fun.

[Malakithe]

Tabletop Tactics just released a new battrep with the new book vs OBRs new book...might answer some questions

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, FeralMulan said:

Read that again, mate. We fast roll to save time, but dice rolls happen one at a time:

 - For each slain model, roll a dice
 - If you roll a 4+, you return one model

Wording is perfectly fine. 

actually no. It's a logics flaw. The condition is to roll a 4+. Once a single 4+ has been rolled the condition is fullfilled and the effect stops. Rolling all dice seperately doesn't matter.
Dice 1: 4+ - return a model
Dice 2: Yeah a 4+ has already been rolled so nothing happens
Dice 3: ... etc.

You can see it as a boolean: If you roll a 4+ return one model.
We start at 4+: false:
Once you roll a 4+ it's turned to true and the condition is triggered once. End of story.

It would have to say: for each 4+ you roll return one model, so the condition can be met several times.

Edited April 8, 2023 by JackStreicher

[JackStreicher]

Playing around with some lists there might be some damage in spamming Wight kings, Skeletons, some Black Knights, Grave Guards and maybe Blood Knights + 1 Necromancer.

[Tizianolol]

Guys blood knight can still retreat and charge?

[JackStreicher]

Just now, Tizianolol said:

Guys blood knight can still retreat and charge?

Nope.
But they can trigger mortal wounds more often. with every move to be precise:
Movement, clipping a unit
Charge, clipping a unit
Pile-In, clipping a unit
retreat, clipping a unit

so up to 3 times per turn per unit

Edited April 8, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Craze]

Just now, Tizianolol said:

Guys blood knight can still retreat and charge?

Nope.

[Tizianolol]

Thats sad, its good damage improve but I think old warscroll was more tactic. Yhey remove they fun thing for no reason . I dont know why they just keep d3 mw on charge with buffed warscroll but be able to retreat and charge was fun:(

[Tizianolol]

Wait can I give +1 attacks and +1 damage on a unit of BK ? Or I have to chose only 1 buff now?

[JackStreicher]

9 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Wait can I give +1 attacks and +1 damage on a unit of BK ? Or I have to chose only 1 buff now?

How? Kastelai Dynasty trait?

[TechnoVampire]

58 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Wait can I give +1 attacks and +1 damage on a unit of BK ? Or I have to chose only 1 buff now?

Yeah you can, the +1 attacks replaced the +1 wounds buff. You can get all the buffs once each, so you can give blood knights +1 attack and +1 damage if you get both. 

[Tizianolol]

Ye on kastelai. Thx a lot , basically if I got 3 unit of bk i can have on each of them +1 attacks and +1 damage . So the only restriction is i cant get same ability more then once in the same unit right?:) thx a lot

[TechnoVampire]

3 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Ye on kastelai. Thx a lot , basically if I got 3 unit of bk i can have on each of them +1 attacks and +1 damage . So the only restriction is i cant get same ability more then once in the same unit right?:) thx a lot

That’s right yeah, and if you use Vhordrai he can duplicate them once per turn to another unit in 24” so you should be able to build them up quickly. 

[FeralMulan]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

actually no. It's a logics flaw. The condition is to roll a 4+. Once a single 4+ has been rolled the condition is fullfilled and the effect stops. Rolling all dice seperately doesn't matter.
Dice 1: 4+ - return a model
Dice 2: Yeah a 4+ has already been rolled so nothing happens
Dice 3: ... etc.

You can see it as a boolean: If you roll a 4+ return one model.
We start at 4+: false:
Once you roll a 4+ it's turned to true and the condition is triggered once. End of story.

It would have to say: for each 4+ you roll return one model, so the condition can be met several times.

You're thinking like a programmer with bad code, mate. Each roll is a separate activation of the rule. People arguing otherwise are just doing it for the sake of it.

And even if not, this would be so mind bendingly obviously the intent that if anyone uttered your way of looking at things in real life, they would be sucked into a black hole of irrelevance by the rulers of the cosmos.

Seriously, the rule is fine.

[TechnoVampire]

I really wish they’d decided to allow the Kastelia buffs to apply to mounts, allowing the dragons to become scary hammer units, but taking some degree of effort. It would have really appealed to people like me who love the death lore and aesthetic, but want to play a hard hitting army as opposed to grinding down your opponent with endless hordes. 
 

… although I suppose if I’m being objective blood knights hit harder now and dragons survive longer, allowing them to deal more damage over the course of the game, so effectively that is a damage improvement.

Edited April 8, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, FeralMulan said:

Seriously, the rule is fine.

The rule is definitely not fine. The wording is really bad enough so that damn near everyone that reads it is confused. It reads that it only brings back 1 model and that at a minimum is probably not the intention of the rule. 

[Gery81]

VLOZD in LoB looks scary enough for me. Take 2 and Neferata with them, take the cloak and doomed minions on the general, and take Vile transference on one of them. They will have 8 rend 3 damage 3 attacks, and another 8 rend 1 damage 2 attacks, that will hit on 2s against your opponent big scary (as long as it is not a monster), Vile transference and Neferata is there to give those monsters a pause, and they are not that trivial to remove from the field either. If you really want to, you can take Purple sun too. Oh, and their no inspiring presence rule do extra damage too. Gives roughly 700 points to fill with whatever else you think you need, probably chaff to clog up the board, and stuff that do battletactics. 

[TechnoVampire]

59 minutes ago, Gery81 said:

VLOZD in LoB looks scary enough for me. Take 2 and Neferata with them, take the cloak and doomed minions on the general, and take Vile transference on one of them. They will have 8 rend 3 damage 3 attacks, and another 8 rend 1 damage 2 attacks, that will hit on 2s against your opponent big scary (as long as it is not a monster), Vile transference and Neferata is there to give those monsters a pause, and they are not that trivial to remove from the field either. If you really want to, you can take Purple sun too. Oh, and their no inspiring presence rule do extra damage too. Gives roughly 700 points to fill with whatever else you think you need, probably chaff to clog up the board, and stuff that do battletactics. 

It confuses me that they built this tech into legion of blood as opposed to Kastelai, when Kastelai is supposed to be the faction of martial excellence and the VLOZD is the epitome of the sub-faction. The Kastelai command traits and artefacts are underwhelming. The best command traits are one that gives you the previous allegiance ability allowing you to deep strike, or a copy of the old one giving re-roll charges. The best artefact (fragment of the keep) is a nerfed version of the previous one. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[Gery81]

17 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

It confuses me that they built this tech into legion of blood as opposed to Kastelai, when Kastelai is supposed to be the faction of martial excellence and the VLOZD is the epitome of the sub-faction. The Kastelai command traits and artefacts are underwhelming. The best command traits are one that gives you the previous allegiance ability allowing you to deep strike, or a copy of the old one giving re-roll charges. The best artefact (fragment of the keep) is a nerfed version of the previous one. 

Probably the sins of the previous edition. That said, I don't mind that LoB focuses more on the Vampire heroes, while Kastelai focuses more on Blood Knights, and other non-hero vampires. It feels like the trick will be to use Vhrodrai's ability to spread the love, and power up more than one unit at once. Also, I didn't realize that you only have to kill one model with the appropriate wound characteristic to get the buff, not the whole unit (according to goonhammer review), which makes very easy to get those buffs.

[TechnoVampire]

9 minutes ago, Gery81 said:

Probably the sins of the previous edition. That said, I don't mind that LoB focuses more on the Vampire heroes, while Kastelai focuses more on Blood Knights, and other non-hero vampires. It feels like the trick will be to use Vhrodrai's ability to spread the love, and power up more than one unit at once. Also, I didn't realize that you only have to kill one model with the appropriate wound characteristic to get the buff, not the whole unit (according to goonhammer review), which makes very easy to get those buffs.

Ok yeah, the model thing completely went over my head, as I was just going off the old rules. That’s a subtle but significant improvement to the ability. Thanks for pointing that out. It’s cheered me up a bit 🤓

it also means you could charge into two separate units and if you kill just one model from each, you will gain multiple buffs in one round of combat. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[Doko]

7 hours ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

So, 

LoB builds a great VLoZD with Ethereal Save and more attacks but apart from that favors no particular units. 

Vyrkos increases the size of summonable Units and provides them with a 5+ Ward; it's hordes of infantry this time around. 

Kastelai with Vhordrai gives 2 units of Blood Knights 2 damage if 1 nets the necessary kill, so the old cav + chaff. 

I'm at a loss with LoN and not interested in Avengorii. More synergies for early theorycrafting? Where'd you see Black Knights shining? 

 

A bomb of black knightsx15 +wk in mount dish out 17 mortals wounds that is great and can be used in every legion because they got the reroll charges with the wk and they dont need nothing more. Maybe inside vyrkos because kastelai have more high rend units as vordrai or blood knigths,nigth is pretty useless now,avengori also is useless.

[Gery81]

7 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

Ok yeah, the model thing completely went over my head, as I was just going off the old rules. That’s a subtle but significant improvement to the ability. Thanks for pointing that out. It’s cheered me up a bit 🤓

it also means you could charge into two separate units and a few kill models from each giving you multiple buffs in one round of combat. 

Yeah, while that is great, one of them is most likely the extra move. I think that is kind of a miss, it should have been an extra rend, or +1 to wound or something. That would make those Blood Knights real scary. 

And yes, the Shifting keep should have been a Battle trait, replacing one of the "actions", and the WT should have been the once/game power up...

[Gery81]

4 minutes ago, Doko said:

A bomb of black knightsx15 +wk in mount dish out 17 mortals wounds that is great and can be used in every legion because they got the reroll charges with the wk and they dont need nothing more. Maybe inside vyrkos because kastelai have more high rend units as vordrai or blood knigths,nigth is pretty useless now,avengori also is useless.

I would try that in LoN, where they can counter-charge too. That would shift a combat very decisively. Also, the same WK gives those Black Knights re-roll charges too. But, you can only run 10, unless it is LoB. They are not battleline otherwise

Edited April 8, 2023 by Gery81